Post by: DP3 on October 05, 2004, 01:14:17 PM
....it comes with a "built in" resurface meter. Now that seems a little far fetched and complex but it's really not. The ball literally soaks in oil. You can drop a few drops of lane oil on the ball and watch it dissolve into the coverstock. What I mean by built in resurfacing meter is that the more you use it the darker color of blue your track will get. After about 100 games, the track will become a noticable dark navy blue than the rest of the ball, then you have to resurface it. After the fresh resurfacing you will get about another 50-75 games out of it, then after that one about 30-50 games, then after that it's done, you'll have to get a new one.
There's no word on when they will release this ball or coverstock concept, but if they do, no center will be able to create a colume big enough to warrant this ball. Even if they did, every other ball would become obsolete and there would be a race between companies to copy this type of material.
What does everyone think about this?
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-DP3
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on October 05, 2004, 09:18:10 PM
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Post by: khamûl on October 05, 2004, 09:19:51 PM
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=56606&ForumID=1&CategoryID=2
They still have to figure out production issues involving the initial cure time of the coverstock. Until they do, who cares?
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two of nine
Post by: Doug Sterner on October 05, 2004, 09:53:19 PM
I hope that AMF follows through with this ball. The bowling industry needs something fresh and new.
The issue right now is the cure time. Regualr bowling balls will cure to the point that they can be removed from their molds in under an hour. The epoxy covered ball requires 6+ hours to cure.
I am hoping this works...maybe then AMF can turn the corner and come back to be a player again in the industry.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
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www.dougsproshop.net
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Post by: DanH78 on October 05, 2004, 10:31:41 PM
It would seem to me that this ball will make it even easier for the revless to compete even though they have a complete lack of technique. Once again making the margin of error even greater while not really making the reward for quality shots higher.
You are definatley one of the more educated bowling guys out there, so I'm interested as to why you think this will be good for bowling. No doubt that it would be a boost for the AMF name, but I don't think it will help bowling.
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!
Post by: AMP750 on October 05, 2004, 10:34:56 PM
Doug is the only one that has made a post here that understands what the Epoxy balls are about.
To add to Doug's post,AMF is going to make 1 maybe 2 of these balls that will benefit the person with less hand and the person with more hand.
AMF realizes these balls will change the bowling ball industry as we know it today,but do you actually think that they would take time developing this ball and testing it,if they could not change the Characteristic of the ball to suit the lane oils that they actually sell. It will be a great ball and look for it about Jan of 2005 !!!!
Post by: TheDude on October 05, 2004, 11:57:39 PM
it has it's good and bad sides. dale mentioned they had a product very similar to ebonite's hook again to aid in extending this ball's useful life.
this ball does indeed create alot of friction. but ask dale mentioned, this was just one example of how far they can go within the spectrum of hook. they can re formulate the epoxy to hook less, but still have the oil consumption qualities.
From what i have heard is that this has been sitting on Columbia industries R&D dept for nearly 10 years. And it was basically explained to me that with this ball, core means nothing. the example i saw had i believe just pancake core inside if i am correct. I also noted that the ball had no noticable oil on it when it returned on the ball return.
Of course i asked a friend that deals with epoxy and things of this nature. This ball would have of course a long curing time and tempurature would be extremely important. A ball like this would be very sensitive to tempurature, heat and cold would be deadly for this ball, because epoxy would expand and contract much more than resin would. so this ball would be very very prone to cracking. So this ball may not be a good idea in colder climates, or even in hotter climates as well.
Hence this ball would be incredibley expensive, if it really did take so long to develop i think columbia and AMF300 would like to recap some of the money pumped into this project. Plus if it does indeed become more prone to cracking, warrenty issues and replacement balls might be forcing per ball expense even higher.
This could be the next Quantum Helix, and Double Helix. the extreme high end market, setting a new bench mark price that could even make most Lane1 fanatics saying, whoa lil pricey.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: The great one on October 06, 2004, 12:39:05 AM
quote:
This could be the next Quantum Helix, and Double Helix. the extreme high end market, setting a new bench mark price that could even make most Lane1 fanatics saying, whoa lil pricey.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
If i remember correctly...those helix's ended up being sold for 15$ at a chain sporting goods store. If amf wants an awesome ball, re release the nighthawks. On the note of this new ball..hmmm.. think it would be at all possible that either the pba and or the abc would ban this ball? Kinda like the pba did with the roto sd 73, only that wasn't allowed because of the softness.
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www.bowlersedgeproshop.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 06, 2004, 12:47:10 AM
All the Evolutions hit like!! The triumphs look real good!
Guys around here are tearing it up with the original Triumph and the Scamp. The TNT is very good!
The nighthawks were very good.
The only thing they lacked in the past were good colors. Now they have em.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS the guy throwing the Triumph green and yellow tonight is so good it is sick!
Post by: intergalactic on October 06, 2004, 06:00:34 AM
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Post by: charlest on October 06, 2004, 12:50:00 PM
It's a vicious changing world. 3 weeks ago I had to use my Blue Dot the whole 3rd game of 1st shift league. 2 nights ago in the same league I used my Lanemasters New Standard which I had polished lightly; I really needed it dulled but I never thought I would ever see this much oil again.
same house, same league going from a Blue Dot rock hard polyester, being too much balls, to a diamond encrusted particle solid ball, being too little ball?????
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: getuaload on October 06, 2004, 01:14:09 PM
quote:
I was wondering when someone might ask a question about this product. This is Dale Niemela, President of AMF300. I will try to give a brief answer. This product takes much more precision and control to make. A change in the % of mixtures creates different friction. Consequently we are having to install new equipment to build these balls. So far we are amazed at what we can do. Trying to chose the right one to promote and sell is an issue. With this stuff, changing the mixture (not the core or the drilling layout) we can dial in the amount of friction. We can make a ball that reacts like current line balls, one that hooks less, one that makes you move 10 left with your feet from where you would be for current line "hookers" or make one that hooks when EVERYTHING ELSE goes straight. It's like choosing between a wedge, a 7-iron, a 5-iron, a 3-wood or a driver. Our delema is choosing which player gets the biggest benefit from the first one we introduce - the player that hooks it a lot, not so much hook or has never hooked the ball in his or her life? This is like when the Black Angle came out to take over from the Yellow Dot. It's going to be a lot of fun for a lot of people - especially me!
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on October 06, 2004, 01:23:27 PM
Post by: htotheizzo3561 on October 12, 2004, 11:43:19 PM
Post by: Uncle Remus on October 13, 2004, 02:39:44 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 13, 2004, 10:45:57 AM
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: AMP750 on October 13, 2004, 12:27:08 PM
Again there are people making noise about something they don't understand.
As Lefty said,they will be making 2 types of the Epoxy balls to cover all the bowlers.
They(AMF)already know that the Epoxy mix can not be strong and will not serve the purpose of making a ball that would never sell because the centers could not apply the lane conditioner to handle that type of ball.
Edited on 10/13/2004 10:43 PM
Post by: qstick777 on February 17, 2011, 11:34:13 AM
Post by: OddBalls on February 17, 2011, 11:40:41 AM
Holy repost Batman!!!!
For those that don't know...
It was the Epoxy resin balls put out by Columbia that they are talking about.
Honestly, if they had worked to make the cover less brittle and less high maintanance, they would have had a winner on their hands..
Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..
Post by: TheDude on February 17, 2011, 12:02:09 PM
in reality it wasnt the complete industry that was killed, but it put such a huge hit into columbia's cheque book, less than 3 years later columbia300 as a company would soon become unrecognizable.....
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec-Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Keep them honest!
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Post by: lsf_21 on February 17, 2011, 12:08:55 PM
Post by: qstick777 on February 17, 2011, 12:09:11 PM
You got that right! But without those changes we may have never had a company like 900Global.
Post by: The Dreaded Durbin on February 17, 2011, 12:43:14 PM
Post by: nmbr1sun99 on February 17, 2011, 01:47:18 PM
Post by: iamone78 on February 18, 2011, 02:11:00 PM
Piece of mind!! Just in case, you never know when you might encounter a shot like this......Some people would want this type of ball for natl's and others would die to have this ball to use on a THS
Post by: Juggernaut on February 18, 2011, 02:55:20 PM
I think Columbia screwed the pooch on this opportunity. They rushed something into production without the proper extent of testing, using A.M.F. for a guinea pig, then trying to grab all the glory.
I think it's funny that this was, more than likely, the straw that broke the camels back.
I also hate having 6 year old topics surface.
Stop it.
"Yeah, I throw AMF. What's it to ya"? 
Post by: gee on February 18, 2011, 03:23:35 PM
This story reminds me on Columbias EPX and if I remember correctly this ball was one of the biggest flops on the market...
I think the chemists of BASF can easily make a stronger cover when the industry asks for it.
BUT remember a strong cover is not everything, a lot of people want to hook the entire lane but without having a hand on the ball.
Remember those hooking monsters from the past and the bowlingindustrie build every year a stronger cover and hardly anyone needs it.
Post by: qstick777 on February 18, 2011, 06:01:50 PM
Sorry, I was looking for a topic about soaker and for some reason this topic came up.
I remember reading at the time that the AMF "team" was doing all the research and was going to get the release, but Columbia took it with the EPX instead. They made it sound like it had been thoroughly tested, so the issues with EPX seemed like a surprise. Considering AMF was just a name licensee, I guess everybody was technically working for the same company.
The ball description even says they spent more than 8 years in research and testing......maybe most of that was research and very little testing? http://columbia300.com/products/detail_retired_balls/epx_t1/
Actually, AMF did get a release with the epoxy cover - Project X. It was an international release with the epoxy cover and the TNT core. It was purple in color - not sure what the difference was in colors, but one was supposed to hook more than the other. I managed to get my hands on one, but never drilled it up. Figured I never see enough oil as it is, why would I want/need a super oil ball?
Post by: sevenpin63 on February 18, 2011, 06:14:35 PM
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS