Post by: J_w73 on March 18, 2009, 11:14:52 AM
this ball looked like it had good stats from BTM and they also ranked it pretty good for a PBA sport shot. Can't find any videos anywhere..
Other contenders are the Villian or the Heist.. Also what are the 3 different heists that are out there?
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: max revs on March 18, 2009, 08:20:00 PM
Post by: tekneek on March 18, 2009, 10:19:40 PM
--------------------
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
www.leadingedgeproshop.net
512-755-2947
http://stores.ebay.com/Leading-Edge-Pro-Shop
Post by: J_w73 on March 18, 2009, 11:53:00 PM
quote:
I would not be inclined to believe the Venom is a med to med light oil ball. I have been wrong once in this lifetime. It has Super-flex pearl with particle load if I'm not mistaken. A bit strong for lighter conditions unless a weaker layout is used.
--------------------
Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
www.leadingedgeproshop.net
512-755-2947
http://stores.ebay.com/Leading-Edge-Pro-Shop
So you think it is for heavy oil.?? From what I have read it says medium oil..
BTM reviews has it as best for medium.. and good for sport shots as well
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 3/19/2009 1:15 AM
Post by: tenpin on March 19, 2009, 06:47:49 AM
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
Edited on 3/19/2009 6:49 AM
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 09:44:51 AM
quote:
The Venom is a great Medium oil ball. The problem would be the light side of the medium oil with this ball. Don't be fooled as this ball is stronger than most people think. I still have mine and have used it alot on the Medium oil but when they start to dry out I have to put it away as it just gets to aggressive. Also this ball has been discontinued for a while now and trying to find one might be pretty tough. I have a Villian on the way now so I really can't say how that one is going to work yet.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
Edited on 3/19/2009 6:49 AM
I was thinking about putting a rico on it to smooth it out and tame any jump on dry.. but that is two people that have said it is more medium heavy than medium light..
Is the Venom a smooth arcing ball though..??? Can't find a video anywhere.
maybe the villain is a better choice??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 3/19/2009 9:48 AM
Post by: directdrill on March 19, 2009, 10:08:13 AM
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Hook 'em Horns!
"Stats are for losers, I like winning games." - Will Muschamp, Texas Defensive Coordinator
Post by: Jesse James on March 19, 2009, 12:31:14 PM
And he used it successfully on a light/dryish oil shot!
Because I already knew the core of the Venom, I brought in my Triumph the next week to see if I could play also. My Triumph only lasted the 1st game and a half, before it started burning up.
For some reason (must be the coverstock), he was able to play with his Venom for all three games on a seriously light, light oil shot! Go figure.
Gary Parsons and I were talking about this, and he said it made sense, because a particle pearl cover would seem like urethane on a dryish shot. Just depends on the total load that's in the coverstock.
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 01:02:10 PM
quote:
I don't know why this is but, a buddy of mine used a venom in league play all year at my toughest-shot house.
And he used it successfully on a light/dryish oil shot!
Because I already knew the core of the Venom, I brought in my Triumph the next week to see if I could play also. My Triumph only lasted the 1st game and a half, before it started burning up.
For some reason (must be the coverstock), he was able to play with his Venom for all three games on a seriously light, light oil shot! Go figure.
Gary Parsons and I were talking about this, and he said it made sense, because a particle pearl cover would seem like urethane on a dryish shot. Just depends on the total load that's in the coverstock.
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.
I would agree that the particle pearl cover would work on lighter conditions. I don't think it would hook .. just get smoother..
Is the Venom angular or really smooth.. AMF seems to think the Venom is better for medium heavy and hooks way more than the villian. And that the villain would be better to smooth out wet/dry and spotty conditions... I know the Venom is rated better by BTM for a sport shot.. that is why I thought it would be smooth..
BTM has the two balls about the same hook rating with the Venom with just a bit more backend but a lot less length. I know the ratings are pretty subjective but I have used them to pick my last three balls and it has worked perfectly..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 02:16:10 PM
quote:quote:
The Venom is a great Medium oil ball. The problem would be the light side of the medium oil with this ball. Don't be fooled as this ball is stronger than most people think. I still have mine and have used it alot on the Medium oil but when they start to dry out I have to put it away as it just gets to aggressive. Also this ball has been discontinued for a while now and trying to find one might be pretty tough. I have a Villian on the way now so I really can't say how that one is going to work yet.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
Edited on 3/19/2009 6:49 AM
I was thinking about putting a rico on it to smooth it out and tame any jump on dry.. but that is two people that have said it is more medium heavy than medium light..
Is the Venom a smooth arcing ball though..??? Can't find a video anywhere.
maybe the villain is a better choice??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
I htin you're missing the point here.
I do not believe the Venom would be for medium-heavy UNBLESS you sanded it rougher. I have had a couple of particle balls that were great for medium oil. They were not great for medium-heavy. When, in a league or a tournament, the midlane dried out, you had to put the particle ball, like the Venom away, because it didn't have enough backend to go deeper nd recover, but it was too early in the mids to save enough energy for backend hitting power.
That does NOT make a medium-heavy oil ball. If you put a Rico drill on it OR rough up the surface, it will handle heavier than medium oil (not sure if it will hanlde true medium-hevay oil), but THEN it won't handle medium oil.
Unless you have higher than average ball speed, the particle just cause the ball to react too early. With the stock polished cover, it will handle medium oil but not much heavier, unless you have a higher rev rate or lighter oil unless you have a higher than average ball speed.
I have seen your other post about what you're looking for. I hate to say it but unless you fall into one of the "unless" categories I mentioned above, I do not believe the Venom will meet your needs/wants.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 02:28:28 PM
quote:quote:quote:
The Venom is a great Medium oil ball. The problem would be the light side of the medium oil with this ball. Don't be fooled as this ball is stronger than most people think. I still have mine and have used it alot on the Medium oil but when they start to dry out I have to put it away as it just gets to aggressive. Also this ball has been discontinued for a while now and trying to find one might be pretty tough. I have a Villian on the way now so I really can't say how that one is going to work yet.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
Edited on 3/19/2009 6:49 AM
I was thinking about putting a rico on it to smooth it out and tame any jump on dry.. but that is two people that have said it is more medium heavy than medium light..
Is the Venom a smooth arcing ball though..??? Can't find a video anywhere.
maybe the villain is a better choice??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
I htin you're missing the point here.
I do not believe the Venom would be for medium-heavy UNBLESS you sanded it rougher. I have had a couple of particle balls that were great for medium oil. They were not great for medium-heavy. When, in a league or a tournament, the midlane dried out, you had to put the particle ball, like the Venom away, because it didn't have enough backend to go deeper nd recover, but it was too early in the mids to save enough energy for backend hitting power.
That does NOT make a medium-heavy oil ball. If you put a Rico drill on it OR rough up the surface, it will handle heavier than medium oil (not sure if it will hanlde true medium-hevay oil), but THEN it won't handle medium oil.
Unless you have higher than average ball speed, the particle just cause the ball to react too early. With the stock polished cover, it will handle medium oil but not much heavier, unless you have a higher rev rate or lighter oil unless you have a higher than average ball speed.
I have seen your other post about what you're looking for. I hate to say it but unless you fall into one of the "unless" categories I mentioned above, I do not believe the Venom will meet your needs/wants.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Charlest.. I WANT MEDIUM- MEDIUM LIGHT.. I am just worried that the VENOM is too strong as I have been told by a few people.. I have my Anger for Medium Heavy..
To confirm.. if it is dryer it won't necessarily hook more.. just be smoother and less backend.. If so that is what I want
Also.. you are saying the rico drill will actually make it hook more?? or handle more oil? I thought the rico would smooth it out more
Here is what I have and what it does.. I want it to fit right below my widow pearl..
Brunswick BVP Mammoth HEAVY OIL SMOOTH
Rotogrip Epic Odyssey HEAVY OIL ANGULAR
Hammer Raw Hammer Anger MEDIUM HEAVY SMOOTH
Hammer Black Widow Pearl MEDIUM ANGULAR
**** LOOKING FOR MEDIUM LIGHT SMOOTH****
Visionary Green Gargoyle* LIGHTER OIL ANGULAR
Rotogrip Neptune LIGHTER OIL SMOOTH
Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle* SPARES
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 3/19/2009 2:41 PM
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 02:53:14 PM
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 03:10:13 PM
quote:
I understand you want medium to medium-light. My whole reply was predicated on trying to convince you that unless you have a higher than average ball speed, the Venomn will not cover/handle TRUE medium-light oil. I was trying to get you to understand the nature of the Venom, as I understand that ball (which I believe is correct).
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
I thought you were saying that it isn't for medium heavy...that is what you typed..
I was confused cause you are saying that it isn't for medium heavy and also isnt for medium light..
so you are saying it would be too early for medium light??
So you think the Villain would be more what I am looking for..??
Was looking at the sidewinder but I think that is just too much ball and will be like my Anger.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Jesse James on March 19, 2009, 03:29:43 PM
My buddy threw his Venom down and in with high ball speed, on the light oil shot. So I never really got to see it's hooking power. And it was very smooth.
I don't ever remember him standing left with it, and trying to hook the lanes, though.
I have not seen a Villain thrown yet, so can't give observation on that one.
Good luck, Jw73
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 04:11:34 PM
The Creature is slightly more even reacting overall than the Villain, IN MY EYES.
The Creature solid can be a ball to suit you, but the driller MUST match your style with the ball and the oil pattern. (Just calling it medium oil or medium-light oil doesn't mean all mediums are the same pattern. Shorter lengths of oil and drier backends cause many balls to have a sharp and almost uncontrollable backend.)
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 04:26:10 PM
quote:
I think the Villain and the Creature are the type of ball that will handle medium AND medium-light oil well, but their smoothness depends on both your release AND the drilling. I had a Creature and the drilling I chose was not optimum for me. It was so even, I had killed the hitting power for my release.
The Creature is slightly more even reacting overall than the Villain, IN MY EYES.
The Creature solid can be a ball to suit you, but the driller MUST match your style with the ball and the oil pattern. (Just calling it medium oil or medium-light oil doesn't mean all mediums are the same pattern. Shorter lengths of oil and drier backends cause many balls to have a sharp and almost uncontrollable backend.)
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
for sure about the drilling.. my Neptune is like that.. light oil ball but put some oil up front and a decent backend and that thing is one of the sharpest breaking balls I have seen.. but on a driershot it is super smooth..
the creature was also recommended to me by the AMF tech rep. He seemed to think the villian would be a better choice and is better if I do need to change the surface..
what layout did you have on your creature.. even is what I want.. my style lends more to skid flip so more even is better for what I want out of this ball..
do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..
so what do you classify the Venom??
and Thanks for your help
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: tenpin on March 19, 2009, 04:50:43 PM
I have been experimenting with stronger equipment and a 3 3/8 X 3 3/8 drilling. That has worked out for me as it is not jumping on the conditions I have been throwing on and it still is retaining enough energy to carry. I currently have a Break Solid and a AMF Radar Alert drilled that way and have shot a 823 with the Break Solid and a 300 with the Radar Alert shootin 10-5 on a medium league shot. Radar Alert was on house condition and Break 823 was on a drier tournament pattern playing 20-10 shot 277, 277, 269 in match play. I also have a Villian coming anyday with that same drilling on it. I only mention this because if you trust you driller he can drill anything to do what you want it to do.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 04:55:01 PM
quote:
the creature was also recommended to me by the AMF tech rep. He seemed to think the villian would be a better choice and is better if I do need to change the surface..
The core on the Creature is the old Pulse core - very even.
quote:
what layout did you have on your creature.. even is what I want.. my style lends more to skid flip so more even is better for what I want out of this ball..
My PAP is only 4 1/2" over, no up/down.
I had pin directly under ring finger and CG kicked out about an inch further, towards the PAP than the pin. No weight hole.
If I had to do it over, I would have put the pin in the ring and stacked the CG below it. Realize I have very little tilt right now. I can make flippier balls slightly more even, easily.
quote:
do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..
I'd worry it was too smooth. This is already an even reacting ball. it's not super smooth like a Visionary Blue Green Centaur or similar ball, but it is smooth.
quote:
so what do you classify the Venom??
I'd classify it as a medium only ball for the average bowler (avg revs, avg ball speed) with an average drilling. It's almost a special purpose ball to my way of thinking. If your oil pattern holds up with only slight moves (1-2 boards max), then it can work wonderfully asa benchmark. A particle pearl is often very much like a polished solid resin ball, in that regard.
quote:
and Thanks for your help
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Thank me if and when it works. Till then, all bets are off.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 05:01:12 PM
quote:
I would agree with charlest on the Creature. I also had to pass mine down as it did not match up to my style. I had mine drilled 4 X 4 3/4 and it was very even. You could probably go with the Creature and get your desired reaction. I don't know about how a rico would react as I have only had 1 rico and did not like the reaction for my game and never tried it again. Also has Charlest has said you need to let you driller decide how to drill the ball for what you want.
I have been experimenting with stronger equipment and a 3 3/8 X 3 3/8 drilling. That has worked out for me as it is not jumping on the conditions I have been throwing on and it still is retaining enough energy to carry. I currently have a Break Solid and a AMF Radar Alert drilled that way and have shot a 823 with the Break Solid and a 300 with the Radar Alert shootin 10-5 on a medium league shot. Radar Alert was on house condition and Break 823 was on a drier tournament pattern playing 20-10 shot 277, 277, 269 in match play. I also have a Villian coming anyday with that same drilling on it. I only mention this because if you trust you driller he can drill anything to do what you want it to do.
--------------------
Derek Trowbridge
900 Global:No oil pattern we can't tame
www.900global.com
www.AMF300.com
I think the drill will be important on this ball. As I drill most of my stuff over 5 inches pin to pap because I need the length. On a weaker ball such as this I may be able to go leverage and even though this is a strong drilling it should smooth out the backend more than a long pin and not be too strong because of the nature of the cover.. I could also go with a shorter 2 - 2.5 inch pin to pap but I dont' know about that. Those type of drills tend to be super condition specific for me.. like a last chance when nothing else works type of thing..
I think I am leaning toward the Villain.. Even though it sounds like the creature is smoother it sounds like it is smoother because it handles less oil and any amount of oil will kill the hook. And like I said .. The AMF guy thinks the Villain will handle changes better without changing the look of the hook too much.. ie dulling smoother and higher grit snappier.. He seems to think it will just create more friction and less friction vs the creature that will get pretty snappy when you shine it up.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 05:03:59 PM
quote:Quote
Thank me if and when it works. Till then, all bets are off.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
You have helped me in numerous other ways so you deserve the thanks anyway.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 05:06:22 PM
quote:quote:
Quote
do you think a rico drill would be smooth with no backend jump?? It would be 5 1/2 pin to pap for me..
I'd worry it was too smooth. This is already an even reacting ball. it's not super smooth like a Visionary Blue Green Centaur or similar ball, but it is smooth.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
So if I go with the Villain, what layout would you suggest?
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 06:02:03 PM
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 19, 2009, 06:19:39 PM
quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: qstick777 on March 19, 2009, 09:43:41 PM
I thought they were 2 of the smoothest balls in the AMF family? Are they too much for a medium to medium-light shot? Or they too difficult to find?
--------------------
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"Government is not the solution to our problems - government is the problem."
Post by: charlest on March 19, 2009, 11:16:22 PM
quote:quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.
I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on March 20, 2009, 12:58:50 AM
quote:
Hmmmm, no love for the Code or the Heist?
I thought they were 2 of the smoothest balls in the AMF family? Are they too much for a medium to medium-light shot? Or they too difficult to find?
--------------------
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"The Founding Fathers knew a government can't control the economy without controlling people. And they knew when a government sets out to do that, it must use force and coercion to achieve its purpose."
"Government is not the solution to our problems - government is the problem."
They were on the list.. I just thought they were too much for medium
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on March 20, 2009, 01:02:41 AM
quote:quote:quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.
I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
I don't have much tilt but do have a high deg of axis rotation.. and decent revs.. when I put my hand into a ball I generally have more of a problem with the ball coming up too strong or too early...
I wish I had the ball tonight.. I think it would have worked perfectly..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on March 20, 2009, 01:13:09 AM
quote:quote:quote:
I'm off to bowling. Let think about potential range of drillings for each.
In general, the Villain is also smooth, just slightly less so than the Creature and slightly more hook and handles slightly more oil overrall. Significant but not extreme differences.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Ok cool.. I'm thinking RICO.. I think that would be the smoothest other than a short pin drill..but like you said it might be too smooth with these balls. I think I have the hand to make it work though.
I almost like a rico'd Sidewinder but I think that might be too aggressive and put me in the same situation that you were talking about with the Venom..I like some of the reviews on the sidewinder though.. seems pretty versital and smooth
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
If you think you have the hand for a Rico drilled Creature, fine.
I don't know how much tilt or rotation you have and those are important factors in putting a "smoothing" drill on a smooth reacting ball.
I was going suggest something like pin in the 4" - 4.5" range, with a PAP-pin-CG angle of about 45 - 50 degree range. Pin about 1.5-2" above the midline.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
and why the creature over the villain again..?? Just cause it is smoother in your opinion? Is it smoother cause is skids more in oil or smoother because the dynamics of the core and cover as it rolls..??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on March 20, 2009, 01:37:39 PM
The Villain has the old Track Elite/Dyno-Thane Vendetta core which is much flippier. The Villain also has a slightly stronger coverstock rating 45 vs 40. The coverstocks are so close, as to be indistinguishable if they were wrapped around the same core. It is and will be inherently more flippy in its general reaction than the Creature.
You wanted smooth/smoother. The Creature is, in my opinion, smoother than the Villain.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 3/20/2009 1:41 PM