Author Topic: My Heist Opinion (Read 4423 times)

cooksey · « **on:** August 18, 2007, 01:46:54 AM »

Hello all, got my Heist drilled yesterday and had a chance to put about 10 games on her so i thought I would give my initial thoughts on the ball. First off it is drilled 4 x 4 which was a suggestion both from my driller Tony Cox at(AveragesJoesProShop) and Tekneek. It placed the pin to the right and a little below ring finger. It required a small weight hole which was put in the thumb quadrant. Well I got lucky and got a pair of lanes that had fresh oil but unfortunately I don't know the pattern they run. It was pretty much your typical house shot from what I could tell though. Well after warming up a little bit I started with this ball standing 22 and aiming 11 with the break point around 7. Ball cleared the heads with ease and read the midlane very well. Had a nice arc on the backend. No big move just a nice controllable reaction. Ball hit very well keeping pins low and pushing them back off the lane. Moved into about 25 with feet and targeted 13 out to 7 and got the same reaction. With the drilling and OOB cover for me this is not a ball I would want to try and play any big angle shots with but that is not what I wanted it for. For someone with more hand I could see it working for that purpose with the right drill and cover prep. I wanted this ball for my benchmark ball to be able to read the lanes with and that is what I got. I call this a working class ball. Nothing flashy but when you use it you know it is going to get the job done. It compliments my Beatn and Doom very well. I can already see this is one of those balls that once you get used to it you can have confidence in it. I would reccomend this ball to someone looking for a good medium oil benchmark ball. I would like to see somebody throw one who can amp it up though and see what it can really do. It will be in my bag for awhile that's for sure. A solid release from AMF in my opinion.

cooksey
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" Focus the next shot is critical"

AIM:johncooksey24

jkiser01 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2007, 09:55:52 AM »

glad it worked out for you John..

JK
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..

strikezone_sanantonio · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2007, 05:21:43 PM »

quote:
Which Heist did you drill? The pink pearl or the blue?
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www.totalbowling.com.au
www.tenpin.org.au

There are no blue ones in the states.
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Bo Littlefield
AMF300 and 900 Global Staff
The Strike Zone Pro Shop of San Antonio
-only pro shop in Texas with the largest selection and inventory
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RealBowler · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:59:15 PM »

quote:
ok that would explain a few things.......... The blue one is a better for me, looks like a blue white sparkle with green labels, its a solid reactive by the looks. So the pink one in the states is reactive not pearl? Maybe the newguy can clear some things up for us.
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www.totalbowling.com.au
www.tenpin.org.au

Post some pics for us to see! Us guys in the states love to drool over stuff we can't have!
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Haywood

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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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tog831 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2007, 08:09:48 AM »

Can anybody tell me the difference between the Heist and Tracks Arsenal Artillery.I know the coverstock is a little different but the core looks just like the revmaster core.Has anyone thrown both of these to give some comparsion.

Edited on 8/26/2007 8:10 AM

newguy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2007, 08:39:35 AM »

The Cover is different the core uses different flip blocks and the body of the core uses different densities. So other than it being round it most likely doesn't have any other similarities.

newguy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2007, 10:25:18 AM »

The Heist is a solid cover not a pearl and the Track resin was not stronger. These are facts. Fact number 2 the flip blocks are totally different covering nearly 1 inch diameter more on both top and bottom. If you did an rg calculation and plug in the densities and the area it is spread over it is a huge difference. Since the impact of the flip block density is so great than the mass (density )has to be removed from somewhere else. The core body and the outer core are the other 2 otpions.
Or you can have your own opinion base it on whatever you feel and say they are identical.

Edited on 8/31/2007 10:30 AM

cooksey · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2007, 10:35:48 AM »

Well to me it really doesn't matter.I like the ball and the look it gives me on the lanes. Predictable and smooth. That is why I liked the Dynothane balls so much. Newguy I was wandering how close are the Creature and the Heist? They are both supposed to be a benchmark type of ball. Are you going to be using the soaker coverstock on anything else?

cooksey
--------------------
" Focus the next shot is critical"

AIM:johncooksey24

EricThomas · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2007, 12:20:51 PM »

Phil will probably agree with this that the geometry of the core has just as much to do with the reaction shape as the numbers do.
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900 Global/AMF Sales Manager

shelley · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2007, 12:28:44 PM »

quote:
It cannot be too much different or the RG's would not be so close.

That's a downside to only having one number. You can boil a lot of things down to one number and think they're similar when they're not. As Phil said, different densities, sizes,... and you gotta compensate somewhere. The RG gives a very general characteristic, it is an average of many different influences. Some cores with an RG of 2.5 are real flippy, some are smooth, some longer, some earlier, you can't just call it 2.5 and know everything about it.

SH

newguy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2007, 01:46:03 PM »

I will relate a story from many years ago. We had a ball Track did when I was there in the 1990's. called the NRG it had numbers like (this is an example not necessarily the numbers) 2.55 rg .050 diff. Shortly afterwards I designed a core called the ELite. 2.55rg .050 diff. They rolled totally different. The NRG was early and smooth and we all know what the elite core was like. I study this and determined that not only did the numbers indicate the performace but equally as important was the geometry. If the numbers were the only influence than all ball with an rg of 2.50 to 2.55 with a .045 to .050 diff would roll identical given equal frictions. We all know this is not the case. The only other differnece is geometry.

revTrex · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2007, 03:32:40 PM »

Newguy or ET -- would you say, then, that you dispute the USBC's "new" findings? The ones where Nick Siefers says that core axis migration is only affected by the laws of physics and the RG value after drilling?

In his article, he says core shapes don't affect axis migration, which seems to say that core shapes don't affect flare, and thusly don't affect reaction shape -- in other words, the core shape might make the numbers, but the numbers correspond with the reaction, etc.

If you had two balls, with the same cover, with the same RG and differential value, with the same cover, but the cores' shapes were different...would they react differently? And why? Is there some scientific way to explain this? If there is, can I get a hold of this explanation? Even if it's mind-boggling, or ultra complex, I'd like to know.

Thanks!

newguy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2007, 03:36:06 PM »

quote:
I looked those two up just for giggles. The NRg had an .059 differential and the Elite had an .046 differential. You designed the lightbulb? j/k
Is that enough difference in values to cause a change?

I did say for example. It may have been a differnet ball at the time but one certainly was the NRG.

newguy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2007, 03:38:48 PM »

quote:
Newguy or ET -- would you say, then, that you dispute the USBC's "new" findings? The ones where Nick Siefers says that core axis migration is only affected by the laws of physics and the RG value after drilling?

In his article, he says core shapes don't affect axis migration, which seems to say that core shapes don't affect flare, and thusly don't affect reaction shape -- in other words, the core shape might make the numbers, but the numbers correspond with the reaction, etc.

If you had two balls, with the same cover, with the same RG and differential value, with the same cover, but the cores' shapes were different...would they react differently? And why? Is there some scientific way to explain this? If there is, can I get a hold of this explanation? Even if it's mind-boggling, or ultra complex, I'd like to know.

Thanks!

What he said as I understand it is that the axis migration takes the same path regardless of rg, diff spin axis or shape. I agree it does take the same path. His findings do not address geometry, rg diff or ball paths. (I believe) so I do not dispute his findings.

revTrex · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2007, 03:39:59 PM »

Thanks, newguy.

Author Topic: My Heist Opinion (Read 4423 times)

cooksey

My Heist Opinion

jkiser01

Re: My Heist Opinion

strikezone_sanantonio

Re: My Heist Opinion

RealBowler

Re: My Heist Opinion

tog831

Re: My Heist Opinion

newguy

Re: My Heist Opinion

newguy

Re: My Heist Opinion

cooksey

Re: My Heist Opinion

EricThomas

Re: My Heist Opinion

shelley

Re: My Heist Opinion

newguy

Re: My Heist Opinion

revTrex

Re: My Heist Opinion

newguy

Re: My Heist Opinion

newguy

Re: My Heist Opinion

revTrex

Re: My Heist Opinion