BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Bags, Shoes, Accessories => Topic started by: jmc1972 on January 06, 2017, 07:48:36 PM
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I've heard from people who are uneducated about the use of compression sleeves. If your someone who "hates" them continue reading, educate yourself, and leave others alone.
For those of you who see these as a simple fashion statement you may want to read about compression and athletics.
There are undoubtedly a segment who wear them as a fashion statement and that completely fine as it's their money and their choice. Do you pay there bills? I doubt it and as such you should crawl back under your rock, grab a Busch beer, and complain about your pathetic life which causes you to judge others. I'm sure there are many things wrong with you that cause you to see us that use them as "losers".
I was intoduced to compression while serving in the Army where I lifted weights on a schedule of twice a day.
What does compression do? It keeps the muscles compressed warm, allows the muscles to be oxygenated better then if not compressed, tightens ligaments and deters injury, and allows a shorter recovery time after use. They are used in nearly all sports, for people with Cancer, people with diabetes, people who fly a lot. The uses are numerous.
Do you consider fighter pilots losers? Well If you haven't figured it out......they use compression to keep blood to their heads at high G's.
Now I am fully aware that bowling is not the same as flying a fighter jet. I do know that it's athletic sport that can and does cause injury. If I can prevent even one injury with it then it's worth MY money.
Have a nice day.
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I think someone had a bad day.
Thanks for the info.
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Who are you talking to when you reference paying bills, crawling back under a rock and grabbing a Busch beer..........voices in your head maybe?
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Nope, no bad day. And the people I was referring to are the idiots who like to talk crap about others. If your not one of those people then it doesn't pertain to you. There was a kid practicing and an idiot started giving him crap about wearing one. I stepped in. Just a rant post hoping that maybe someone who is with that idiot will cut the crap.
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Well, I have read study after study that say compression sleeves, shirts, tape, etc. are all a "in your head' thing." That they don't actually improve performance. I agree with them.
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I wear a sleeve. I don't really need it when I bowl 3 games. However, when I bowl 4 or more, like during practice or tournaments it keeps my elbow from getting sore. That is enough reason for me to wear it.
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Improving performance and preventing possible injury are two different things.
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Improving performance and preventing possible injury are two different things.
Two different things but they can also go hand in hand. I got a free pack of the Genesis Kmotion tape. I've used it on my wrist and it actually seems to help me
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Improving performance and preventing possible injury are two different things.
Two different things but they can also go hand in hand. I got a free pack of the Genesis Kmotion tape. I've used it on my wrist and it actually seems to help me
I've actually thought about doing this. The wrist straps are just too much and often annoying. So I've been thinking of trying the kinetic tape around my wrist to see how it feels/goes.
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Well, I have read study after study that say compression sleeves, shirts, tape, etc. are all a "in your head' thing." That they don't actually improve performance. I agree with them.
You find arguments on both sides. Here's the simple facts.....compression sleeves keep you muscles warm, warms increases circulation, oxygenation improves muscle recovery, muscle recovery equals reduced injury.
You don't have to wear a compression sleeve, just something that keeps the muscle warm. Compression sleeves are close to the skin which keeps it from getting hung up.
Compression technology has been used since the 50's for medical purposes to improve circulation. That's unchallenged and continues to be used by the medical community today.
Anyone with a keyboard and access to a blog can argue anything and real studies by the medical community are based on facts.
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People only wear them because Belmo wore one on TV. If Belmo wore an eye patch on a show, everyone else would and claim it helped them pin point a target on the lane.
It's all a gimmick. Of course the "medical reasons" are put out there by......the manufacturers! First it was the copper "balance" bracelet and now it is the kinetic tape and compression sleeves.
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People only wear them because Belmo wore one on TV. If Belmo wore an eye patch on a show, everyone else would and claim it helped them pin point a target on the lane.
It's all a gimmick. Of course the "medical reasons" are put out there by......the manufacturers! First it was the copper "balance" bracelet and now it is the kinetic tape and compression sleeves.
^^^ ;D
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I wear a sleeve. I don't really need it when I bowl 3 games. However, when I bowl 4 or more, like during practice or tournaments it keeps my elbow from getting sore. That is enough reason for me to wear it.
Me too.
Or when I don't take it slow in practice, I can get elbow pain. That silly copper fit ain't worthless, but I have some proven results, especially now I'm getting older.
The last 3 times I have had elbow pain on longer game sets I have honestly forgetten to wear the stupid thing. I can't say it works or cures all, but I am somewhat of a believer.
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Last year I had a surgery and from a result from that I got edema in my legs. My doctor recommended that I wear compression stockings. I just started back bowling again and have been wearing these on my legs and will say they do help. They give my legs better balance and my ankle feels more secure.
Lucky for me that I wear pants when I bowl so no one see how ridiculous they look. The arm compression also looks ridiculous, but if it works and you take there bracket money then the jokes on them.
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Compression sleeves/keeping muscles warm does work. There's a reason you see professional athletes always trying to keep layers on when they're not on the field/court/whatever (unless it's 90 degrees and humid).
The most visual example I can think of is NBA guys putting pullovers and pants on when they get to the bench. Sports teams spend a lot of money on that kind of research and I would tend to trust what they're doing if everybody is doing it.
I wouldn't buy into a lot of the other silly things like the copper or magnet stuff but anything that keeps muscles warm will have some effect.
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The people in this thread, and elsewhere, that say it is "all in your head" are simply ignorant on the matter.
I'm not one to fall for placebos. If something doesn't work, I'll be the first to say it. When it comes to compression/kinesiology tape, both technologies help.
I've suffered from tennis elbow since I was a teenager (nearly 43 now). Nearly every year I would "throw my elbow out" playing various sports, including baseball and throwing events in high school. After discovering compression sleeves, this has been an extremely rare occurrence. I bowl a lot and play a lot of ball during the summer. I wear them in both. My arm would be dead otherwise.
The kinesiology tape works much the same way. I killed my AC joint playing third base and pitching occasionally in hardball about 4 years ago. I would not have been able to bowl that season if it weren't for the tape.
Another plus I find with the sleeves DOES actually help with performance. The sleeve gives feedback if you come around the ball too early. If you stay behind the ball, you can feel more tension in the sleeve because it twists a little - assuming you have a properly fitting sleeve.
So again, plain ignorance by those shunning these things. You know nothing of what you speak.
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I used to wear these way before it took off in bowling. And at the time I bowled a travel league and folks would look at my arm or arms. I either wore one or two.
I had folks ask me questions about it and my answer was almost the same. "no I don't wear this for bowling." I wore these sleeves to wipe the damn sweat off my head. but, I stopped wearing mines cause it caused my thumb to swell up faster and it got too warm in the summer. Plus, I got tired of washing it.
When I worked for Sports Medicine.......
I asked a certain NBA player why he wore sleeves in his arms he said he didn't want to rub the bottom of his shoes, so he wipe his fingers on his sleeves. and to hide some of his tattoos.
I ask the Sports Doctor I had worked with about the ARM sleeve. He said it's beneficial for post/current injury to the person arm and wrist. Helps fatiguing too early, or something about fatigue. For example, 100 free throws. Other than that, he doesn't see any other health purposes for wearing one unless a person plays rugby or foot ball - prevent scratches or whatever. "it's a good pill for some people."
I told him I was active bowler, bowling 20 some games a week. At the time I was in two leagues with practice. I also had tennis elbow at the time too. he told me to eat right, stretch before and after bowling and do the stretches for my elbow.
The sleeve didn't help my tennis elbow. It was the forearm brace, stretching, proper technique with working with medical equipment and most importantly, changing my grip. Ever since I went forward pitch, I haven't had tennis elbow or any arm pains.
To make this short, the doc pretty much said... "whatever sells and makes people believe it, then it works." (for those with no h/o injury) The leg sleeves or compression socks are a different sleeve/compression item and do have a purspose.....
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The people in this thread, and elsewhere, that say it is "all in your head" are simply ignorant on the matter.
I'm not one to fall for placebos. If something doesn't work, I'll be the first to say it. When it comes to compression/kinesiology tape, both technologies help.
I've suffered from tennis elbow since I was a teenager (nearly 43 now). Nearly every year I would "throw my elbow out" playing various sports, including baseball and throwing events in high school. After discovering compression sleeves, this has been an extremely rare occurrence. I bowl a lot and play a lot of ball during the summer. I wear them in both. My arm would be dead otherwise.
The kinesiology tape works much the same way. I killed my AC joint playing third base and pitching occasionally in hardball about 4 years ago. I would not have been able to bowl that season if it weren't for the tape.
Another plus I find with the sleeves DOES actually help with performance. The sleeve gives feedback if you come around the ball too early. If you stay behind the ball, you can feel more tension in the sleeve because it twists a little - assuming you have a properly fitting sleeve.
So again, plain ignorance by those shunning these things. You know nothing of what you speak.
You're "...not one to fall for placebos..." huh?
Now that is funny.
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i bought one just to match my bowling shirt. That is all.
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I don't use compression sleeves, as of yet, but I will vouch for the KT tape when properly applied. It helped immensely following a shoulder reconstruction and the months of rehab to get back to bowling with less pain afterwards.
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People only wear them because Belmo wore one on TV. If Belmo wore an eye patch on a show, everyone else would and claim it helped them pin point a target on the lane.
It's all a gimmick. Of course the "medical reasons" are put out there by......the manufacturers! First it was the copper "balance" bracelet and now it is the kinetic tape and compression sleeves.
I wore one last year; and no, Belmo had nothing to do with it. hard to follow any trends he might start when I don't watch the PBA very often and never when he is bowling.
I wore the sleeve to try help bowl through an injury and perhaps not make it worse/help recover. pretty sure what actually helped was not bowling during the summer.
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You're "...not one to fall for placebos..." huh?
Now that is funny.
Not sure what is funny about it. Maybe you just don't understand. If I take something/use something and it doesn't work, then I will say it doesn't work! If I use something and it does, then I will say that as well! Not hard to understand here. Some people...
In this case, compression sleeves aren't a placebo anyway. There is proven science behind this technology. I probably shouldn't have used the word "placebo" in my last post because apparently some people are going to key in on that word and assume that compression technology is actually a placebo. Sometimes I have to remember the audience...
Bottom line: the technology is proven and works. But yeah, focus on that one line.
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"The Technology" is NOT proven. Study after study says it is all a mind trick. You think it works so to you it does. They look good. That's it. Belmo is paid to wear his. More advertising for Storm. Nothing more.
I think they look ridiculous.
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"The Technology" is NOT proven. Study after study says it is all a mind trick. You think it works so to you it does. They look good. That's it. Belmo is paid to wear his. More advertising for Storm. Nothing more.
I think they look ridiculous.
Study after study... A lot of proven technology has studies done showing different results. Most of these studies you mentioned were done in labs - NOT real world applications. The real world tests prove the science works. Believe what you will though.
All I know is I can physically not use my arm for all the bowling and baseball I do - plus I work on a computer all day. When I wear the sleeves (and not just the bowling ones - I have ones bought from drug stores and such), the pain is greatly reduced. When I wear them while doing the events, the resulting pain afterwards is greatly reduced. There are days I can't even rest my arm on my arm rest/desk at work without a sleeve on, yet with the sleeve, I can.
But it's all in my head... Whatever. Feel free to believe in your ignorance without testing these products yourself. Yeah, it's all because of Belmo. I bought my drug store sleeves before I even noticed Belmo wearing them.
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You're "...not one to fall for placebos..." huh?
Now that is funny.
Not sure what is funny about it. Maybe you just don't understand. If I take something/use something and it doesn't work, then I will say it doesn't work! If I use something and it does, then I will say that as well! Not hard to understand here. Some people...
In this case, compression sleeves aren't a placebo anyway. There is proven science behind this technology. I probably shouldn't have used the word "placebo" in my last post because apparently some people are going to key in on that word and assume that compression technology is actually a placebo. Sometimes I have to remember the audience...
Bottom line: the technology is proven and works. But yeah, focus on that one line.
Okay, whatever you believe. Which by definition is in and of itself a placebo effect.
Ironic, considering the audience...
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If something works for YOU, just state that it works for you. Not necessary to call others' opinions ignorant. It will not work for everyone. Following links were from sites that were not involved in manufacturing of compression products. The ones that were were very high on the benefits, the objective ones, not so much.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/03/30/392378800/compression-clothing-not-the-magic-bullet-for-performance (http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/03/30/392378800/compression-clothing-not-the-magic-bullet-for-performance)
To test the claims, Stickford gave 16 endurance runners a pair of calf compression sleeves. Then she strapped on masks and monitors to measure the runners' gait and oxygen intake. The same routine was done without the calf sleeves as well, and "we found nothing," Stickford says. No difference.
"When we looked at the averages of our group of runners, all the measures of running gait were exactly the same with and without compression," Stickford says. "And the measures of efficiency were exactly the same."
Here's where it gets interesting. Two men who did show improvements while wearing the compression sleeves were the ones who believed the garments aided in training, racing and recovery.
"The placebo effect is a real effect. It affects performance," Stickford says. "So if you think these garments work, there's not really any harm in trying them out."
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http://running.competitor.com/2013/12/recovery/do-compression-socks-really-work_62611 (http://running.competitor.com/2013/12/recovery/do-compression-socks-really-work_62611)
Research on the effectiveness of compression garments in athletic pursuits, though, has been hit or miss.
“Very little evidence exists (ie. two to three studies out of 15-plus) from a sport and exercise perspective that compression garments improve performance when worn during exercise,†said Rob Duffield, a professor at the School of Movement Studies at Charles Sturt University.
One study found that when 21 male runners did two step tests – one with compression socks and one without – they were able to go slightly longer wearing the compressions before exhaustion. There have also been some small increases seen in anaerobic threshold, particularly in cycling, and in jumping performance. The theory is that the tights prevent oscillation of the muscles sideways and promote muscle efficiency.
But, Ali noted that many of the studies that have found increases in performance did not use a placebo or control, making it nearly impossible to tell if the increases were really from the compression or from the athlete’s perception of the compression.
And, countless other studies have found no differences in running times, VO2 max, oxygen consumption or heart rates between athletes wearing the socks and those who weren’t.
“Most of the research shows that there are no performance benefits,†said sports physiology professor Elmarie Terblanche, from Stellenbosch University in South Africa.
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https://runnersconnect.net/running-tips/the-science-of-compression-gear-for-runners/ (https://runnersconnect.net/running-tips/the-science-of-compression-gear-for-runners/)
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/do-compression-sleeves-help-with-muscle-recovery/?_r=0 (https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/29/do-compression-sleeves-help-with-muscle-recovery/?_r=0)
The evidence to support some of the claims for compression sleeves is scant, however. Most recent studies indicate that compression sleeves do not boost blood flow through muscles during exercise, probably because the movement of blood when we are exercising is already at its peak.
Similarly, while many athletes report that exercise feels easier when they wear compression clothing, those athletes perform about the same whether they wear the garments or not, according to a new review of studies of compression clothing and running that was published in April in Sports Medicine.
On the other hand, compression garments do seem to significantly aid muscles’ recovery once strenuous exercise is over, says Billy Sperlich, a professor of sport science at the University of Würzburg in Germany who was a co-author of the new review. The garments can augment the movement of blood through muscles after exercising, when blood flow would otherwise slow, he says. This increase in circulation may help flush away some of the biochemical byproducts of hard workouts, like lactate, he says, reducing inflammation and muscle aches.
But to provide these benefits, compression clothing must be quite tight, which some people find uncomfortable, Dr. Sperlich says. The garments must also be worn for several hours after a workout, even if they become clammy and malodorous.
The upside is that when finally freed from these casings, he says, your muscles should “have less pain†than if they had not been squeezed at all.
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Real simple MI 2 AZ, the sleeve wearers have their alternative facts. :P
Here's what's happening: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pseudoscience
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Placebo_effect#The_strangeness_of_the_placebo_effect
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Also to add, this topic is not that big of a deal in the big picture, it's just comical haha
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I have no dog in the fight. I don't care what bowlers use. But I hear those who claim a benefit saying, "it works for them" while others say it is a placebo.
But, as with any other advancement, if there is a benefit, then ALL persons using the advancement would see improvement. Not sure you can say a compression sleeve only works for some people when the science being used should apply to all people using said sleeve.
I am not a doctor, just a lowly cubical engineer and my spidey senses are tingling on the effectiveness of the sleeves. But if you like them, then continue to where them.
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I have no dog in the fight. I don't care what bowlers use. But I hear those who claim a benefit saying, "it works for them" while others say it is a placebo.
But, as with any other advancement, if there is a benefit, then ALL persons using the advancement would see improvement. Not sure you can say a compression sleeve only works for some people when the science being used should apply to all people using said sleeve.
I am not a doctor, just a lowly cubical engineer and my spidey senses are tingling on the effectiveness of the sleeves. But if you like them, then continue to where them.
This is basically my take as well.
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"...not one to fall for placebos..." ;D
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I bowl better when the lanes faces the west.
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I bowl better when the lanes faces the west.
I prefer bowling into the sunset as well. :)
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Study after study... A lot of proven technology has studies done showing different results. Most of these studies you mentioned were done in labs - NOT real world applications. The real world tests prove the science works. Believe what you will though.
You really need to work on your wording. This statement literally says that the science doesn't work in the labs, but somehow magically does in the real world, which is ridiculous on the face of it.
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Study after study... A lot of proven technology has studies done showing different results. Most of these studies you mentioned were done in labs - NOT real world applications. The real world tests prove the science works. Believe what you will though.
You really need to work on your wording. This statement literally says that the science doesn't work in the labs, but somehow magically does in the real world, which is ridiculous on the face of it.
In the real world, we read the advertising telling us how well something will work for us, we hear paid professionals telling us it will help or friends tell us how it helped them. Probably not in the lab. :)
Placebo effect?
It still comes down to, if you think it is helping you, then fine, continue to use it and recommend it to others. Just don't call others who don't believe it is helpful or who say it does not work for them, 'ignorant'.