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Author Topic: qns on ball weight and stuff  (Read 7093 times)

Miffy1980

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qns on ball weight and stuff
« on: January 02, 2010, 01:04:18 AM »
Hi folks, i am neither new to bowling nor to this site. im just your friendly neighborhood lurker that decided to drop in and say hi.

also due to other commitments, i stopped bowling for a good 6 years and recently caught the bowling bug during a chanced outing at an alley. i didnt have coaching prior the big break from bowling. I am more of a serious amature that bowls a lot with some mates, had a starters set, got a quantum ball at cash converters and thats about it.

guess what, after all these years, the only thing that survived storage is the plastic ball. quantum cracked, shoes just fell apart (real cheapo starters shoes).

and i figured if i still have the passion after stopping all these years, thats gotta mean something right.

right now im bowling with my cousin on a 1 time per week basis right now. i am still  using my 12lbs plastic ball. i have put on a fair bit of weight over the years and i am now 132lbs. so im thinking of getting new gear. mainly because that old 12lbs has a pretty wide thumb hole, it seems that i squeeze the thumb a fair bit in the past and now that the ball feels lighter, i dont do that anymore more, coupled with adding more pressure on the index, i now have a ball dropping problem. so new gear for the new year i suppose

however this is where you guys come in.
im kinda hesitant when the pro shop guy suggest i get a 14lbs ball. i was looking at maybe a 13lb. but it seems to be some kind of a cult with 14s here. its like every proshop owner i spoke to (3 in total) suggest i go 14lbs.

what do u guys reckon on that?

here is my general plan, get a new plastic ball, get proper coaching and see where i go from there.

not going to get any reactives yet, i figure go plastic with the coaching on my basics first, finger tip grip, proper 5step approach, get a good swing and release, work on a consistent aim, THEN we talk about learning oil, lane conditions and ball reactions.

 

Miffy1980

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2010, 12:01:51 AM »
Guys, i think i might have found the right coach and person to get my gear from.

His contact was given to me by an old friend. called him up, had a good chat. I am going to start lessons with him next monday and guess what when i mentioned if i should get new gear from him prior to lessons,

he said i should hold back, go with the first lesson, he brings along a video camera for all his coaching, talks about wanting find out my axis tilt and other stuff before laying out anything for me.

after that lesson, we are going to head down to his shop (apparently he has a shop not within the centre) and then talk abt gears.

sounds so much more professional than the centre shops i have been talking to.

this is looking good. Will keep you guys posted.

Guys just to check, is there and what is a USBC silver coach?

dizzyfugu

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 04:09:18 AM »
This sounds like a good start! Especially the part that your game "gets" measured before punching anything up.

Much success, and have fun!
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completebowler

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 05:35:23 AM »
quote:
Guys, i think i might have found the right coach and person to get my gear from.

His contact was given to me by an old friend. called him up, had a good chat. I am going to start lessons with him next monday and guess what when i mentioned if i should get new gear from him prior to lessons,

he said i should hold back, go with the first lesson, he brings along a video camera for all his coaching, talks about wanting find out my axis tilt and other stuff before laying out anything for me.

after that lesson, we are going to head down to his shop (apparently he has a shop not within the centre) and then talk abt gears.

sounds so much more professional than the centre shops i have been talking to.

this is looking good. Will keep you guys posted.

Guys just to check, is there and what is a USBC silver coach?


Yes there is a USBC silver coach. It is a coaching accreditation system that gives certification to individuals that meet certain requirements according to USBC.

I have worked in a shop for a few years now and been an avid bowler for twenty. I agree with most of the prior posts that 14 pounds is at least where you should start. The dynamics of equipment when you move from 13 to 14 is considerable.

I think an entry level resin is your best bet. Maybe even a tier up. I think a Storm Furious is one of the best bets for someone learning. As mentioned before it will allow you to visually see what is going on down lane. Being a solid cover (and a pretty strong one at that) the Furious will accentuate this ability.

I think you are in good shape overall at this point. Many have offered good advice and you probably are in the hands of a good coach. Don't pay too much attention to layouts as of yet considering nobody knows what style you might develop yet. Layout is only approx. 10% of ball reaction and pin/cg/mb placement is even less than that.

Good luck.
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Miffy1980

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 08:32:30 AM »
Thanks completebowler. The advice from everyone here has been really helpful.

I forgot to mention that im from Singapore, so im really not familiar with USBC. It seems I have found myself a really good coach seeing he got his accreditation from the States.

This is going to be great.

Miffy1980

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 08:31:25 AM »
Hi folks, update on my first ever coaching.

we started at 10am, open a lane for 1.5hours.

its more of a profiling stage where he asked me to bowl my usual, went on for a couple of shots, then he whip out his notebook and showed me the program he uses for coaching and analyzing bowlers. the program is pretty kool, with the video, u can identify the tape on the ball to calculate rev rates etc etc.  

Showed me a clip of an ideal strike, talked a bit more on some fundamentals, then proceeded to the backend of the lane, first time i actually went down the lane in person, its kinda kool, (we were on the side lanes) i could literally see where the oiling stopped (38 ft) and backend was dry.

moved back up, and started with vid shot of me. then plug it to his notebook and presto, analyzed my front, side and back, he could use the program to freeze frame and draw lines from body CofG and line it up to foot, etc etc, pointed out my flaws.

could see for myself my backswing was twisted and thus my shots had high tendency to gutter, but since its intermittent, i cant adjust.

it was like i was on the operating table, and the surgeon was working on me, watching the vid was like an out of body experience. Together with his explanation it was easy to understand my mistakes and the advantages of correcting them.

then we went back to his shop, came a presentation on bowling ball 101. full explaination of important ball reference points, RG, differential etc etc.coverstock etc etc. it was full on and luckily i already had done my ground work with information from here. heh heh


then he went on about ball weight, and he got my PAP, a rough one base on my ball track, but still a PAP nonetheless.

decided on 14lbs, but here comes the tricky part. he wasnt aware i was up to date on ballline ups from the various brands.

his stock at hand was somewhat disappointing,old lineups, from 2007 to some plastic balls to have somewhat a yellow tinge that u would see from old age. saw a couple Columbia ricochet.

there was a crash and bang from ebonite if i am not mistaken. but in light weights.

basically nothing much to choose from. had a choice of firing inferno,world domination (both from the international line ups) and a blackwidow it think.

so when i turned down his suggestion on the 3 high end balls and proceeded to talk about his storm furious as the kind of ball i am looking for, it being a strong solid reactive with its counter part "Fast" being the pearlize version, thats when he was surprised that a) i know my stuff b) i have internet connection c) i can read product catalog. haha

long story short, i found a groove sitting at a corner, it was 14lbs 1oz, it was ideal for me. so tomorrow i am going to get my first "learners car"  together with my first leson on ball mapping and the whole process of taking measurements to the finished product. its like the mechanic talking thru with me while working on my car. Is that fantastic or what?

dizzyfugu

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 08:45:39 AM »
This sounds very good to me - and that you already could make your point of view clear, with some ideas what you want (or what not).

That the hottest stuff out there was not available at the pro shop must not be a bad thing. In my club's pro shop, for example, there are still stocks of vintage pieces (every now and then a Quantum from the 90ies pops up!), and these normally go to beginners or the club's youth program. And even these things hook - it is literally in the operator's hands.

Starting with a Groove is a good basis, and remember that once you have some stable game, more sophisticated balls and layouts will start making sense at all. So, just be patient, learn, and keep eyes and ears open.
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Miffy1980

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 09:43:22 AM »
yeh, thanks dizzy for the encouragement.

i forgot to add that if i wanted newer stuff, i could probably get him to order from the supplier.

was just a tad disappointed when the storm furious Completebowler recommended was a 12lbs. but after a though, hey its a learners car, so yeh, settled with groove.

we just met for like less than half a day and i was already snooping around his shop, since its in a mall its much bigger compared to the ones in bowling centres, and u are right, its not such a bad thing, lots of classic stuff lying around, i even saw a couple of boxes marked "rubber ball"

im definitely going to be patient and learn the ropes the proper way, i think i mellowed a fair bit over the years, hah.

JohnP

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 10:14:16 AM »
You'll be happy with the Groove as your "beginner ball".  I had forgotten that in an earlier post I promised to rate the Freeze after I drilled one last week.  The customer I drilled it for is a "half thumber", and is very unique in that he throws a "cranking full roller" and hooks the lane.  He has been using a 14 lb Track Tantrum, but for some reason decided to go back to 15 lb with the Freeze.  I wasn't there when he ordered the ball or I'd have tried to talk him into staying with 14 lb.  He was looking for something to hook less than his Tantrum to use on dryer lanes.
Well, the Freeze hooks MORE than his Tantrum, it's way stronger than a dry lane ball should be.  Part of that is that with the increase to 15 lbs he lost some speed and has more of a problem controlling the Freeze.  For the price it's a great performer, but don't think it's a dry lane ball.  --  JohnP

Miffy1980

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2010, 06:07:29 AM »
Hi folks,

This question came up, can i just post them here instead of creating a new thread every time i have a new quesion? seems better i post them here. let me know otherwise.

ok back to my questions, we have seen pro shops or ebay with a NIB oldie but goldie from time to time. how do they keep so well? the reason im asking is, when i was bowling 6 years ago, i had an ebonite matrix dynasty and a quantum raven. both of them after 6 years of storage, formed a long single line crack across the surface.

is there a difference (on a micorscopic level or physical level) between NIBs and used ones in storage life and makes new balls keep better? it sounds like an obvious question, but id hope someone can educate me on the science. my old gears were never exposed to extreme temps in car boots and im located on the equator, the only seasons we have here are sunny, rainy and shopping seasons.
I do have to admit, i was never diligent on cleaning them. was that all it took to make them crack?

would a proper de-oil, reface and polished before long term storage prevented the cracks?

inputs and experience is much appreciated.

AngloBowler

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Re: qns on ball weight and stuff
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2010, 07:30:03 AM »
Anytime you drill into a ball, you weaken the structure which results in the cracking you see. The NIB balls aren't drilled so aren't compromised and stand less chance of cracking. That said, sudden changes in temperature/humidity can cause cracking, as can frequent temperature fluctuations, even if the change is gradual.
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