Trouble getting out of skid

[doubleraven]

This is something that I continually struggle with and am looking for some help on. I'll start of describing my game, and then the problem, and hopefully you can give me some advice to improve my game.

I start out with the ball hanging at about my knees, have a small push-off, and use a 4 step approach, starting about 4" behind the first dots. My backswing goes a bit above my waist, and the ball comes down. I throw pretty hard (about 18 mph), but am working on slowing it down and throwing less hard. I have lower then average revs. My ball is a MoRich Colossus, which I'm told is drilled to move early (I don't know anything about layouts, but can post a pic if asked)

The problem is that I can't seem to get my ball into a roll, or to hook, I'm not sure which. It'll skid down for quite a ways and do one of two things. If I roll it on a straight line, it'll angle towards the pocket, and if I throw it at an angle, it'll straighten up and move about 2 board left (I'm a righty)

Its like the ball has no backend at all, but I'm sure its got to be me, cause I've had people from pro shops roll it when helping me, and the reaction looks great.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[azguy]

It is hard to really help without ever seeing you.
First, I 'd have you go to the pro shop guys, so they can watch you and suggest. First hand ( or eyesight) is always better advise than online.

Said that, I'll give you something to try..I can't say it will help, but give this a try..
1. SLOW down...don't try to throw the ball into the next county

2. Take a step or two, even back.

3. Start your ball at least waist high, slow backswing, let the weight of the ball bring it to the release point...again..don't throw it !!

Here's what I think I hear you say..
Your ball speed on those lane conditions, you are throwing the ball through the break point and it goes straight.
You see someone else with a good hook, and want to do the same.

I throw med speed and will never..ever...never have as much hook as a lot of others I bowl with. It's my fault, it's my release...BUT..it works for me. Not everyone should or ever will, throw the massive hook but that's OK. It's YOUR game..play within yourself until you get a coach and then, learn new things, the correct way.

I'm sure this is not what you wanted to hear, but I tell it as I see it,
Maybe I have helped, a bit, and that's all i set out to do.

Good Luck and Happy Bowling
--------------------
AZ Guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com

Sleep is over rated.

[doubleraven]

quote:

I'm sure this is not what you wanted to hear, but I tell it as I see it,
Maybe I have helped, a bit, and that's all i set out to do.

Actually, this is what I wanted to hear. I have to problem not throwing gutter to gutter, as long as I can knock 10 pins into the pit over and over again. After all, look at what Walter Ray has done with a fairly straight ball.

I want to be able to move as the lanes transition, but again, don't feel the need for a giant hook, as long as the ball hits the pocket and carries all 10.

I wish I had the ability to post a video, but I don't think I can. Maybe I can get my still digital camera to do a short like 10 second one (I think I remember that it can do it, if so, I'll post a vid)

Edited on 4/19/2005 9:36 PM

[doubleraven]

I should also add in the fact that I get almost the same reaction using my plastic spare ball(drilled fingertip) when playing around the 2nd arrow. I also should add that I'm a full roller, and the oil rings are almost always within 1 inch of thumb, sometimes over, and usually between the fingerholes.

I'm wondering if maybe I should work with my using my spare ball for strikes for a while, forcing me to slow down, and build a more solid foundation before going back to a re/proactive ball. Would this help?

[dizzyfugu]

From your description it sound much like you muscle your swing - you didn't supply the ball weight but I guess it might be rather light so the ball weight does not dictate your pendulum?

Slow down. Bowling is not about force or muscle, it is about consistency.

Another problem could be your release. From personal similar problems I know that I came (snd still come) too much around the ball upon the release, which makes it spin rather than roll. Works on light/short patterns, but on longer oil the ball will simply skid, never getting to the break point and only making a slight hook.
Maybe you can (additionally) try to stay behind the ball in your downswing throughout the release and follow-through, leading the motion with the ring finger. This should create more roll and get the ball into an earlier/pronounced skid/hook/roll pattern.
--------------------

DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany

Team "X" league website: http://homepage.mac.com/timlinked/

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe

[JohnP]

doubleraven -- Full rollers require special layouts that cause the flare to reverse in the grip area so the ball flares away from the thumb and fingers instead of into them.  Any manufacturer's website will show a full roller layout, usually at the bottom of their drilling instructions.  If your ball isn't drilled that way, I'd recommend plugging and redrilling.  But if you want to improve your skills, find a good coach who can help you convert to a three quarter roller release.  --  JohnP

[dpunky]

Doubleraven,

The best advice I can give you is to go see your local pro shop and bring the ball that you bowl with.  Tell the staff what you are having trouble with and let them analyze your technique.  From what I'm hearing, it looks like you have problems with your release.  Have the pro shop staff check the drill span.  

dpunky

[doubleraven]

JohnP, you mentioned layout as a factor. Here's my ball http://www.geocities.com/doubleraven/balllayout.jpg

I don't know what this layout is intended  for, so maybe someone can tell me. I realize that my ball is a little on the well used side, and I do want to replace it as soon as I have the money, but until then, this will have to make do.



I had a much better practice session today, thanks to your guys' help. I worked on supporting the ball with my left hand, letting gravity do its thing, and staying behind the ball. Usually I go through the motions with my hand on the side the whole time. Still working on getting my thumb out sooner...

When I get my next ball (most likely a BVP), I'll have the span looked at. I noticed that my ring finger doesn't quite make it all the way to the first joint, and I'm guessing that this could rob some of my revs, since that finger won't be lifting as much.

Edited on 4/20/2005 7:39 PM

[JohnP]

doubleraven -- It's a little hard to tell from your picture, but if that's the pin just below the ring finger, it's not a full roller layout.  The pin should be located to the left of the thumb, at a 45 to 60 degree angle from the grip center line, and 3 - 4 inches from the grip center.  (To other drillers, yes - I know there are other full roller layouts but this is the most common and the one that manufacturers include in their drill instructions.  And pin under the ring finger is definitely not for full rollers.)  The MoRich website doesn't include a full roller layout in their drilling instructions, but the link at the bottom of the sheet will take you to the instructions on the Ebonite site for the XXcel, which is also an asymmetric ball.  The last layout is for a full roller.  Too many drillers assume they're drilling for 3/4 rollers - go back and emphasize that you're a full roller.  Unless, of course, you want to do the best thing - get a coach and switch.  --  JohnP

Added on edit:  Oops, forgot the link   http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/drilling_instructions.php?title=BOMBS%20Down

Edited on 4/20/2005 9:53 PM

[sunnyrt]

With that high of a ball speed and being a full roller you should be rolling outside of the 2nd arrow. As long as you have a little bit of follow through your ball should turn over enough to allow it to roll on the dry out there. The problem as previously mentioned is that your ball is not drilled for your type of release. Converting to a 3/4 rolling type of release will benefit you in the long run as you will have a more versatile game.