Is there anyone that can answer these questions?

[John D Davis]

This is for some of you guys that really get into bowling and dept into ball reaction. I have been thinking about this and trying to imagine what is happening once a ball has been rolled down the lane.

 A simple question that maybe someone may know. But what exactly is the PAP doing when a ball gets rolled down the lane? I know its stable until friction is present for the most part. When you stick a ball in the Determinator, the MB migrates to the side of the ball. So whats changing and what is chasing what when a ball is thrown down the lane. Is he MB trying to migrate to the line of the pin? I am not even sure here if I am asking something that can be answered. I am just trying to learn something else to share along to another bowler.

 When drilling a ball, I realize that the distance of the Pin to PAP dictates how much the ball flares. This alone scales the amount of hook on the condition permitting. I know my best reactions come with a 4.5-5 inch Pin to PAP location. I also know I have minimized my flare in doing this giving my that nice length and nice backend. To often in todays game, people will drill balls with a Pin to PAP location of less than 2-4 causing the ball to flare way to much and be condition specific. Sometimes, even causing the player to have a boat anchor on all patterns. I have a PAP of say 3 1/2 over and 5/8 up so I feel the pin beside my ring is not an option. I also feel that I don't even get the best out of balls with a layout above and below the ring... But when I have the pin above and below the middle finger, its gold.

 I understand what causes ball reaction, for I just want to know whats going on as the ball rolls down the lane so I may can let each bowler know also. I have been drilling Asymmetrical Equipment now for a while and I understand the importance of the MB for I have personally tested many diff. Locations.

 The basic reason I am writing this long post is because right now, I am throwing an all-Mo Rich arsenal that consists of about 9-10 diff. pieces. I am getting the best roll of my life with these balls. The look great going down the lane. They look great at the breakpoint as far as reading the lane. And they even look great as far as angle..... But when they hit the pins, they cant seem to knock them all down. I had one guy suggest me maybe getting a couple Symmetrical balls, and I cant figure out what Symmetrical would help? I have all types of ball reactions with these balls. If I have all heavy rolling pieces and needed more length I couldn't agree more, but I have all the skid I need even in some of these strong balls from mo with the layouts placed and surfaces.

 I am sorry this has been so long but if anyone could help me out at all, I sure would appreciate it in so many ways. Thanks, John

[J_w73]

Check out the bowl.com axis migration study.

 http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=13372&f=21


The ball will migrate along a path that is equal to the RG of its initial axis.  I'm am not a believer yet about the ball going to the PSA when the ball is on the lane. Yes the PSA spot or MB effects the ball dynamics but I don't think the ball migrates to the PSA when it is on the lane.  The PSA is the high rg axis.  In physics, the conservation of energy explains that an object is alway losing or releasing energy.. an object can not gain energy unless more energy or force is applied.  For a ball to go to a higher RG the ball would have to gain energy to get to this higher RG.  After you release the ball that is it.. there is no more added energy..
will a ball go to the psa on a determinator.. YES.. there is constant and added force being put on the ball to get the ball to that high rg axis.

If you are getting to the pocket and not getting strikes that has to be entry angle.  What pins are you leaving and how often?  Other thing it could be is that the ball isn't getting into a full roll through the pin deck.  This promotes better carry. Also, what speed and weight ball are you throwing? What is your break point and how far down the lane?
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16-17 mph
350-475 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

Edited on 1/21/2009 1:44 PM

Edited on 1/21/2009 1:45 PM

[dizzyfugu]

Very good explanation - technical, but that's what is actually working on the ball. In a nutshell, the ball's rotational axis migrates from the initial axis (which is indicated by the individual PAP of the player, which is simply a point on the ball surface measured from the grip center reference point to make it comparable between players) towards the core's final stable rotational axis, the PSA.
How fast or early this happens is defined by the core's relative position to the PAP, which is by intent instable upon the release to exploit this migration though the rotational powers on the highest RG axis of the core for flare and hook. A core in a strong position will cause most hook (leverage position, 3 3/8" from PAP, actually a 45° placement towards the PAP axis), but also early, and it depletes the core's energy though rotation, esp. when the cover has to work with friction on the lane. A strong MB in a core will enhance this migrational force, and can be exploited to emphasize a desired reaction shape.

That said, there is IMHO a fine balance between the core's properties, its setup through drilling, the coverstock material, the surface preparation, the bowler's speed, the lane condition, even lane surface material and air humidity that goes together. Therefore, just drilling a ball to hook the most will in most cases "not work", esp. with the very strong modern stuff. Less is in many cases more, but it takes time to find out what works well, and it is just as hard for a good pro shop to determine what a player actually needs to be happy.

I also get the best reactions with pin positions above the fingers and 4-5" from PAP. With my lower speed and medium revs I need length and a delayed action. I also retired most of my strong MB material, esp. most Morich balls. Not because they are bad - but I found them limited in use. While the hook is spectacular, the end results are a bit so so and very condition specific. If all matches up, these things have been hell on wheels for me. But if not, or through lane transition: crap. Too risky for tournament or league. Consequently, I replaced my active arsenal step by step with "simpler" balls, and for me they are much more versatile, giving me more options and also room for error - less guesswork and gambling.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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[John D Davis]

Great information Dizzy, I sure appriciate it. That sounds like the problem I am having with these more advanced cores. I probably need to get me a couple Symetrical balls and keep the pin 4-5 inches from my PAP like you stated because we probably basically have the same style of bowling. I did at one time, have a bunch of LM equipment and they seemed to carry so much better. I may either try a couple more of them or maybe some storm balls for they have some great stuff out right now. But thanks again for that was some great info... John