BallReviews
General Category => Bowling Videos => Topic started by: LyalC52 on December 29, 2016, 01:47:35 PM
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note: I've never bowled in a Bowlmor center
http://nbr.com/2016/12/23/how-i-made-my-millions-bowlmor-amf/
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Hopefully that guy drowns in a pool of "his millions".
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Hopefully that guy drowns in a pool of "his millions".
+1 ... Amen to that GT
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A scumbag by any other name is still a scumbag.
And that's that story.
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they should go and spend time at LANDPARK LANES and see the BULL DOO DOO that goes on there. Short staff, break downs in equipment, some employees lack training to run both the snack bar and front desk - if they are trying to cut down on labor cost, train everyone to do the front and back of the house duties.
After this video, I hope they turn Landpark into a church!! I really feel like not coming back after the holiday break. but I can't do that to my league and teammates. I don't show my irritation, I try to put myself in a happy or goofy mood so not to ruin my bowling night. But AMF landpark lanes is really horrible. At least the last manager gave us free large pizza and a pitcher of pepsi when lanes broke down and we had to wait.
30-45 minutes drive doesn't seem long anymore...
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Just think, that extra driving time is somewhat offset by the amount of time you're stuck waiting when lanes break down every week. I agree don't quit on your team and league in the middle of the season but next year? Go for it. Nobody should have to be constantly frustrated when doing something that should be something enjoyable. We don't have enough time for that.
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Couldn't agree more.
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Points of interest.
Buys one bowling alley.
Says the center was very run down and didn't looks like it had been updated in 30 years.
The before pictures confirms this......this is what many of the bowling centers across the country look like. Late 70s or 80s equipment, dirty, dark, and not maintained or cleaned.
This is ONE of the reasons people quite bowling. Why waste your time and money going into a building that should be condemned and leveled week after week never to see any renovations or improvements for 36 weeks a year. Then watch things get worst.
I've bowled in several of these places locally, and they are now all gone. Empty lots or empty buildings in most cases.
If you want to be mad at someone....be mad at the people who do not re-invest in their business. They run it into the ground and in the end hurt bowling. It happens in many different businesses including restaurants.
Last key notes......This guy runs 308 bowling centers, is currently employing 9000 people and makes $550 million in revenue annually.
I guess we would rather see those buildings empty, people unemployed, and still say well I remember when. Open bowlers out weigh league bowlers in huge numbers. Where others were failing someone else is succeeding by tapping into the market others over looked. I love to bowl. I think bowling is fun. I don't think the world revolves around me as a league/tournament bowler.
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If you want to be mad at someone....be mad at the people who do not re-invest in their business. They run it into the ground and in the end hurt bowling. It happens in many different businesses including restaurants.
This. I haven't bowled in a Bowlmor house so I don't share the angst against them that so many seem to have, but I would still think it's far more of a case-by-case basis than anything else. Is a Bowlmor house bad because it's a Bowlmor house or is it bad because of the individual people directly involved? I'm betting on the latter.
With that said my post above still stands. A bad house is a bad house regardless of the owners. Don't put yourself through that crap if you don't have to.
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why is it other AMF houses not far far from landpark have..... such a nicer place, plain and simple. It's like land park is a step child of bowling allies to this company. So why not turn it into church or some other business site. 11 ppl or so will be out of a job temporary - or transfer to another AMF. if the site turns into another business, more ppl will be employed. OR fix the bowling alley and hire more ppl.
Those rec bowlers, some will turn into league bowlers and I'm all for that of course.
multi-millions huh....... can landpark borrow 300K? lol
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Don't be mad at him, be glad for him. He is not the reason his "formula" seems successful, it is the bowlers themselves.
We here at ballreviews tend to greatly under estimate the greater number of recreational bowlers, and their influence on the game. Let me just re-state that there are almost 70,000,000 people who bowl, but only 1,500,000 who are sanctioned league bowlers.
That is a ratio of 70 to 1.5. That means there are almost 50 times more open bowlers than sanctioned league bowlers.
Who would you cater to, especially if you were in it purely as a financial business, not something you were emotionally tied to?
I hate that his formula is successful, and I hate the direction bowling is going, but that seems to be where it is headed, I just hope there is still room for people like us, the dedicated league bowlers who love it this way, and that we're not relegated to the "back burner of history" like some almost firgotten footnote.
Be happy for Mr. Shannon, but be sad for bowling. The reason it works ain't his fault.
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Darreyl,
You're invoking one set of statistics, while ignoring the other. I've seen 2 (Bowlmor) centers get into financial problems recently just because they ignored the value of repeat customers - the league bowler.
While there are many more recreational bowlers than league bowlers, the vast, vast majority of them bowl ONCE a year. League bowlers bowl regularly once a week. That more than balances out the proportion of recreational to league.
Those centers were so bold (and stupid) as to tell several of their large leagues to "take hike". That bad business decision wound up costing them MILLIONS of dollars.
While I expect Shannon to continue to make money witt new centers devoted to recreational bowlers, I guarantee that he will lose money converting established centers which have, or should l say, had a strong basis in league bowlers to try ti have a business basis in attracting REGULAR (Key word, here, REGULAR) recreational bowlers and regular business party bowlers. As I said, I have already seen 2 LARGE centers have major problems doing that.
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Darreyl,
You're invoking one set of statistics, while ignoring the other. I've seen 2 (Bowlmor) centers get into financial problems recently just because they ignored the value of repeat customers - the league bowler.
While there are many more recreational bowlers than league bowlers, the vast, vast majority of them bowl ONCE a year. League bowlers bowl regularly once a week. That more than balances out the proportion of recreational to league.
Actually since a league bowler will bowl 40 something weeks in a year (if they bowl all year long) and there are 40 something times more open play bowlers than league bowlers, they kind of wash at first look. Assuming they purchase concessions at the same rate, at least. However, I would suggest that the percentage of open play bowlers who bowl 2/3/4/5 times a year is higher than the percentage of league bowlers who bowl 2/3/4/5 leagues a week. That would explain why open play is now (generally) responsible for the majority of lineage.
Also, I know they burned you guys pretty bad at Carolier (I don't recall what the other center was), but I wouldn't conclude that converting established centers to recreational bowling doesn't work well off that one (or two). Carolier is certainly one of, and maybe the most, well known center amongst competitive bowlers. When it comes to this specific topic it's very likely to be an outlier.
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Out of those 70 million open bowlers, some of those are also league bowlers doing open bowling. I bowl in 3 leagues and open bowl twice a week. I think the average league bowler bowls more games a year than the average open bowler (who does not bowl league).
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Darreyl,
You're invoking one set of statistics, while ignoring the other. I've seen 2 (Bowlmor) centers get into financial problems recently just because they ignored the value of repeat customers - the league bowler.
While there are many more recreational bowlers than league bowlers, the vast, vast majority of them bowl ONCE a year. League bowlers bowl regularly once a week. That more than balances out the proportion of recreational to league.
Actually since a league bowler will bowl 40 something weeks in a year (if they bowl all year long) and there are 40 something times more open play bowlers than league bowlers, they kind of wash at first look. Assuming they purchase concessions at the same rate, at least. However, I would suggest that the percentage of open play bowlers who bowl 2/3/4/5 times a year is higher than the percentage of league bowlers who bowl 2/3/4/5 leagues a week. That would explain why open play is now (generally) responsible for the majority of lineage.
Also, I know they burned you guys pretty bad at Carolier (I don't recall what the other center was), but I wouldn't conclude that converting established centers to recreational bowling doesn't work well off that one (or two). Carolier is certainly one of, and maybe the most, well known center amongst competitive bowlers. When it comes to this specific topic it's very likely to be an outlier.
The other center was called AMF Strike n Spare; it's now called Bowlmor Greenbrook. At one point it was the highest grossing AMF center on the entire Eastern seaboard. Last year they expected to gross $11M; because they kicked out so many leagues, and they did not bring in all the business parties and open bowlers they needed, their gross was $4M. Sometime in late winter, all of us who used to bowl league there got emails BEGGING us to bring our leagues back to them. Didn't happen. As far I can tell from those I know who still bowl league there, almost everyone's average is down 10 - 20 points from the sheer negligence in oil and lane maintenance.
As for me, next time I enter those doors, hell will have frozen over.
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Just think, that extra driving time is somewhat offset by the amount of time you're stuck waiting when lanes break down every week. I agree don't quit on your team and league in the middle of the season but next year? Go for it. Nobody should have to be constantly frustrated when doing something that should be something enjoyable. We don't have enough time for that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is incredibly on point take. Very well stated. :)
I love the game so I would drive the extra bit if I had to (fortunately I don't but I can empathize with those who do) just out of pure love of the game.
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If you want to be mad at someone....be mad at the people who do not re-invest in their business. They run it into the ground and in the end hurt bowling. It happens in many different businesses including restaurants.
^^^^
This is a good point as well.
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Shannon is to some degree a scumbag and opportunist, but to his credit he's a good businessman. He recognized the unalterable change in social tastes and demographics, and he's successfully found a business model to take advantage of the new world order.
Recreational bowlers are willing to spend big bucks for the right experience. While I'm paying a buck a game for practice at the PBA rate, the lane next to me has four crazed "for fun" bowlers paying 5-7 bucks per game apiece. On top of that they've spent big $$$ for alcohol and food sitting on the top table for consumption between shots. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which customer the house is going to cater to. I'm enjoying my low rate while it lasts, which I don't expect to be forever.
Bowlmor (and the equivalent) is the future. As "real" bowlers, we obviously don't like it. But it is what it is. Enjoy league/completive bowling while it still exists.
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It seems to me that Bowlmor doesn't really care about the league bowler and caters to the birthday parties, company parties and open bowling wit the flashing lights. I know in the house I bowl in they asked our league to transfer to another one a short distance away a couple of years ago thinking that they were really going to rack up on open bowling on the Friday nights when our league bowled but it was a flop and they asked us to come back and we did. At the start of league each year they promise the moon and don't deliver, the machines break down quite often and in some instances they will put open bowling on the lanes next to league which is a treat in itself. Also if you go in to practice you just never know what you will get sometimes no oil sometimes so much carry down no hook. In our area it seems to me that Bowl America is looking after the league bowler in a much more professional way and encourage league bowling where as I said earlier Bowlmor just doesn't.
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No more Proshop's in bowlmor centers in my area that I know of. Several Proshop's are in plaza, warehouse, and home garage locations these days....
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Na, it's all USBC's fault. I gave them $10, so I know they have plenty of money to fix all these problems. ::)
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Na, it's all USBC's fault. I gave them $10, so I know they have plenty of money to fix all these problems. ::)
LOL... The real shame is that some would believe your tong-and-cheek statement. :o
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League and competitive bowling will always be around. The numbers will depend on many factors including the bowlers themselves.
Times have changed and bowling has to as well. Most people do not want to commit to 30 to 40 week leagues. New bowlers especially. League formats, tournament formats, length of seasons are all a big part of what has to be considered to maintain and grow new bowlers.
Keep doing what you always have and expects everyone else to change cannot continue to be bowlings motto.
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League and competitive bowling will always be around. The numbers will depend on many factors including the bowlers themselves.
not necessarily; there is a center in a relatively small coastal town. about 2500 people live there. this center refuses to host tournaments and has routinely cut the number the leagues they host, as they get so much open play that the open play+food+beer is just making them too much money and they actually believe (I have no way to know for 100% certainty) that they lose money to host leagues and tournaments.
Times have changed and bowling has to as well. Most people do not want to commit to 30 to 40 week leagues. New bowlers especially. League formats, tournament formats, length of seasons are all a big part of what has to be considered to maintain and grow new bowlers.
I agree on this; one of the centers that I bowl at these days broke up one of their leagues such that each third was a complete and distinct league season. this was done partly to address complaints about length of season. those leagues have a big waiting list as well.
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I think the other thing that we need to take into consideration is our proximity to the current standing that bowling is in.
What I mean is that we are seeing this only how it relates to us in this country. So far, when we complain about BowlMor, and subsequently, the current state of league bowling in the USA, we are not taking into account how well it is doing overseas. Cases in point: reference how well it is going in Europe, the middle east, China, and especially Japan. When we take those regions into perspective with our own, does it really look so bleak?
My understanding is that Qubica/AMF is a different entity altogether than that of AMF/Bowlmor, just as Brunswick is a different entity than BrunswickZone/Bowlmor. If so, how is league bowling faring at those alleys versus Bowlmor?
For example, and while a lot of this is for show, when you look at a QubicaAMF house:
https://www.qubicaamf.com/plan-your-bowling-project/gallery
or a Brunswick house:
http://www.brunswickbowling.com/photo-gallery/view-all/
How is league bowling looking? I know it's definitely thriving at two of the alleys listed: Kingpins in Portland, OR, and Sun Valley Lanes in Lincoln, NE. But what about the others and everywhere else outside the US?
My point here is that we are staying so US-centric that we are drowning in our despairs due to the state of bowling in our own region and not seeing the big picture worldwide.
BL.
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Qubica and Brunswick Bowling are bowling center equipment suppliers, not bowling center operators.
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I feel for all of you who have bowled in the past or currently at Bowlmor/AMF/Brunswick centers where Tom Shannon's model of party/boutique bowling is the future.
But, I can tell you based on my experience while traveling all over this wonderful country 6 months of every year, that both league and open bowling are cohabitating together and doing just fine in the majority of centers I have bowled at.
I believe I read on BR in a post that Shannon's centers comprise about 8.5% of all active centers. So his model in no way represents the majority of centers when it comes to deciding the future of bowling.
Understanding there are exceptions, I believe traditional bowling is alive & well in centers where the owners are investing in their centers making it a place that is attractive to be in for both league and open bowlers. As an example one of our local centers just invested 1M in what was a "dump" and dying. Now it is a thriving center
with a 25% increase in leagues as well as a packed house with open bowling.
Bottom line, I do not buy the "doom & gloom" for bowlings future in the USA. To that point I will not be selling my league equipment anytime soon.
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I do not buy the "doom & gloom" for bowlings future in the USA. To that point I will not be selling my league equipment anytime soon.
I agree with most of your observations, and I too do not believe in "doom & gloom" for traditional league bowling. It will always exist at some level. But it will mostly be mixed handicap leagues where the social part is more important than the bowling itself.
Witnessing what I do in SoCal, the trend is not what you'd want to see. We have far more year round scratch league and sport league action than many other areas of the country. Heck, that kind of bowling is mostly dead throughout the US. But things locally aren't looking good. More than 50% of our better leagues are populated by 50+ year old bowlers. A lot of those are actually 60+ year olds. There simply are not enough younger bowlers coming up to keep these leagues alive once the older crowd dies off or hangs it up. It won't happen over night. It's going to be a gradual shrinking process over the next 10-15 years, but it will happen.
Competitive bowling will migrate to places like Las Vegas, which will host large tournaments with participants throughout the country. That trend is already in place and will pick up steam over time.
Everything we have now will still exist, it will just look different.
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Steven,
Spot On; +1