Author Topic: I throw myself to the lions... (Read 3261 times)

a_ak57 · « **on:** June 22, 2007, 11:05:56 AM »

Well, not really, but it sounds dramatic. I'll cut to the chase. I dislike my release/form, because whatever I'm doing causes everything I throw to check up early, even plastic. Using forward roll spells hook/roll out, and it's just generally irritating spending most of my time trying to get my ball down the lane, especially when I have less hand than others I've bowled with who have no problems.

So I was hoping you folks on BR could help me out until I visit Ron Clifton at the Gathering, and perhaps tell me what I'm doing that causes me to have eternal early ball roll, even with skid-snap gear. So I've uploaded this from March: a shot from behind, that same shot in slow-mo, and a slow-mo side angle.

http://www.absolutebowling.com/forums/uploaded/64_1182556429.wmv

Just right click it I guess. It's from march but I still bowl the close to the same, though I've worked on the pushaway (since I didn't have one). I'm pretty sure I still have that pop at the line, and unfortunately my swing still has more muscle than a Mr. Universe competition. I'm getting to the desperation point, so if someone could comment it'd be terrific, even if it's incredibly blunt. Thanks for any help.
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- Andy

BOWLGNUT · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:29:08 PM »

There are several things that you need to work on is the arm swing.You tend to wrap it around which cause you to muscle it.Second one is that I notice that you cup your wrist at the begin then open it up then cup back again before releasing the ball.Third one is the knee bend or the lack of one can also cause you to loft the the ball even hitting up on it.One thing that is good is that you staying behind the ball and thru it at the release point.It would be maybe one or things or all three of what I mention could be your culpit.I wish you the best of luck and let us know you did after Ron Clifton.

BrunsNick · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:51:18 PM »

I made up a couple of points for you... Overall, I think your form looks great! Squeezing or muscle might be due to something simple like a loose thumb or sloppy grip. I wouldn't stress it too much.

www.brunsnick.com/ak1.jpg

www.brunsnick.com/ak2.jpg
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Â¡Viva la naciÃ³n de Brunswick!

Leftyhi-trak · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2007, 07:56:55 PM »

I agree with Nuts second statement as that used to be me. At between 26-27 seconds as get to the highest point of your swing the wrist flattens completely out then trys to roll up around it. I think you are losing leverage there. For me it was ball and swing alignment issues that made me unwrap the ball in the swing. Ron will find the issues I know that from experience also!

Edited on 6/22/2007 7:59 PM

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2007, 08:35:09 PM »

I'd venture that while muscling it tends to help you cause the ball to get into an early roll (I know cause I do that also, as well as the wrap-around), the major cause might be more related to lack of rotation angle at the release point. You have a negative track; that is, the up/down portion of the PAP is down. It's only 3/4" so it's not terrible.

This is a classic cranker's PAP and for cranker's it's a good track/PAP (according to at least one major coach). But you're not really a cranker.

I think you need to learn when to use this release and when to add some degree of rotation by getting your thumb out at the bottom of the down swing and THEN rotating your fingers slightly (in order) to get either 0" of up/down or even some positive "up" amount, like 1/2" - 3/4". Straightening out your backswing might enable you to do this. The old "hold a towel between your elbow and your body side/ribs)" trick may help you to do this. Another method you might try keeping your fingers under the ball and at the 7:00 mark on the clock THROUGHOUT your swing. This is related to the JOhn Jowdy trick of leading with your ring finger.

The KISS principle is paramount here; doing too many things confuses the body and the mind.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 6/22/2007 8:37 PM

APheLion · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2007, 11:43:18 PM »

quote:
I made up a couple of points for you... Overall, I think your form looks great! Squeezing or muscle might be due to something simple like a loose thumb or sloppy grip. I wouldn't stress it too much.

www.brunsnick.com/ak1.jpg

www.brunsnick.com/ak2.jpg
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-07
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Â¡Viva la naciÃ³n de Brunswick!

thats something i never paid attention to, im going to try that
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When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment

When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.

strikestriketapped · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2007, 01:11:42 AM »

I wish I had ball roll like that.
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www.stormbowling.com

jensm · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2007, 01:27:30 AM »

I say work on relaxing your swing for the next three months or so.
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Regards,

jensm

Re-Evolution · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2007, 08:47:39 AM »

Nick made a good point about the placement of the ball at the bottom of the backswing however by the time you have reached the top of your backswing you are in good position so I wouldn't worry about it. It is taught that this is ok as long as you are in proper position by the start your forward swing and this move can help a person to get to the inside of the ball and have the elbow inside of your shoulder on the downswing. This happens for you so the loop you make is of no concern IMHO.

The things I would key on are:

Keeping your arm straight since you bend at the elbow a little bit this makes you more likely to hit up on the ball and when you unbend the elbow the ball loses some of it's forward speed.

You start to turn the ball at the proper time but you stop your rotation as the thumb is exiting which gives you very little rotation angle and greatly reduces the amount of skid you get. I believe this is due to tension in the hand/forearm which may be caused in part by loading up when you bend your elbow. Think of the release as turning a door knob. You only turn the knob part way once you turn it the rest of the way you will open the door to increased length.

Your next to last step timing is a bit late as in you reach the top of your backswing at the same time that you transfer your weight to your right foot and you should transfer the weight just before reaching the top. I think the easiest way to alter this slightly would be to make your 4th step a bit shorter and quicker.
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Re-Evolution
Evolve to a smarter game.

www.Bowling-Info.com
BR.com's unofficial FAQ section

spinner031 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2007, 09:38:23 AM »

I SEE MUSCLE!!!!!!
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!

spinner031 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2007, 09:38:57 AM »

I SEE MUSCLE!!!!!!
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I'll give you five bucks off 'cause you look like a guy who knows his BALLS!

Eddie M · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2007, 09:59:55 AM »

I agree with most of what has been said. One small suggestion. When you set-up the ball in your hand try turning your wrist over the top, away from the body, until you can basically feel your elbow pull into your body. Do that, and maintain that feel throughout the approach and release.

This doesn't work for everyone, but I have used that trick for a long time, and given the same tip to other friends who comment to me about it working for them.
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Visionary Test Staff 07-08

drw002 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2007, 03:39:28 AM »

when u push away you push forward and right try to just push forward in line this will stop u swinging your arm and free your swing a little, id also say if u push down harder with your index finger u can relax your grip more and wont feel like your pulling the ball into the swing, let the ball swing dont force it, i have the same trouble myself i force the ball in my swing to much

a_ak57 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2007, 11:07:53 PM »

Somehow forgot to reply to this. Anyways, thanks for all of the comments. I did forget to mention that since the video I've added an 1/8" forward in my thumb, to result in 1/8" forward. Not much, considering my lady span of close to 4", but it's comfortable for now. But good points about my swing plane, while it may let me bowl on a house shot, I think I'd be better off having a straighter swing for the times when I need to play up the boards. The smaller things such as not uncupping during the backswing shouldn't be any problem to fix. The turning-the-hand-over thing Eddie mentioned is interesting, I'll try that. Charlest and Re-Evolution, what you mentioned about the forward roll and my release makes sense. I never realized that I don't actually have the standard "thumb comes out then fingers rotate around ball" release. Hopefully that should do the trick.

Once again, thanks for the comments.
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- Andy

Author Topic: I throw myself to the lions... (Read 3261 times)

a_ak57

I throw myself to the lions...

BOWLGNUT

Re: I throw myself to the lions...

BrunsNick

Re: I throw myself to the lions...

Leftyhi-trak

Re: I throw myself to the lions...

charlest

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APheLion

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strikestriketapped

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jensm

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Re-Evolution

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spinner031

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spinner031

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Eddie M

Re: I throw myself to the lions...

drw002

Re: I throw myself to the lions...

a_ak57

Re: I throw myself to the lions...