Author Topic: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback?? (Read 4739 times)

mj79 · « **on:** March 19, 2010, 06:30:55 PM »

Just got it drilled today , Love it so far , but just wish it had a little more backend.. Shot 3 games on a standard 39 ft house pattern, with a little bit of carrydown, but it performed pretty well.. rolled a 202, 203, 197..

Heres the ball with how its drilled

ginro · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2010, 02:54:16 AM »

on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...
if you want more backend you need to try some cover(surface) adjustments...
like the next options i will provide you.
Option 1:maybe you just need to hit it with a lower grit pad, the DB has a 2000 grit finish a 1000 finish will have more friction(but not necessarily more backed, it depends on bowlers revs speed and tilt, but try it could be your matching surface to produce more backend)
Option2: it could be that the ball is rolling to soon and spending the energy too soon, so maybe adding some polish over the BOX FINISH will be good(will not have as much friction or midlane roll, and it will delivery more energy on the back part of the lane)
Option 3: go for a low grit like 800 or 1000 and apply polish to have surface under the polish(this will give you length and recovery with continuation on the backend, for me this surface give me the same length as Box finish and more backend).

Edited on 3/20/2010 3:03 AM

mj79 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2010, 03:09:18 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply!! I love how ou guys can figure this stuff out by me just posting pics. My driller is awesome but I didn't want to insult him and start asking "why" questions about it. He told me it was a semi aggressive ball with a descent backend. He has seen me bowl since jrs and he pretty much drilled my last ball 10 yrs ago the same way. The db is much smoother and has a much heavier curve which I love. I'll get vids up soon but for now it's just the break in week to get my throw down again.

Great suggesions on altering the surface too. I'm throwing it around 16.5 mph and near 375 rev. So is it possible that at some point ( especially under tournament oil patterns ) that I'm just gonna Need a heavier hooking ball like a 3.5, invasion, maxxx zone, etc?

quote:
on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...
iif you want more backend you need to try cover adjustments...like
Option 1:maybe you just need to hit it with a lower grit pad, the DB has a 2000 grit finish a 1000 finish will have more friction(but not necessarily more backed)
Option2: it could be that the ball is rolling to soon, so maybe adding some polish over the BOX FINISH will be good(will not have as much friction or midlane roll, and it will delivery more energy on the back part of the lane)
Option 3: go for a low grit like 800 or 1000 and apply polish to have surface under the polish

Adrenaline · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2010, 04:02:30 AM »

I see no balance hole.
Surface is easy to change, so play around with that a bit first, but I'd have your driller check for possibility of a P3 or P4 hole to increase backend.

http://www.morichbowling.com/Drilling/GradientLineBalanceHole/GradientLineBalanceHole.htm
--------------------
Mega Friction 78x3x47 278
Virtual Gravity 47x4x40 272
Red Death
Siege
FS/FT N'Tense LevRG
FS/FT Twisted Fury
FS/FT The Sauce
FS/FT Black Widow Solid
FS/FT Kinetic Energy

ginro · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2010, 04:35:16 AM »

quote:
Thanks for the quick reply!! I love how ou guys can figure this stuff out by me just posting pics. My driller is awesome but I didn't want to insult him and start asking "why" questions about it. He told me it was a semi aggressive ball with a descent backend. He has seen me bowl since jrs and he pretty much drilled my last ball 10 yrs ago the same way. The db is much smoother and has a much heavier curve which I love. I'll get vids up soon but for now it's just the break in week to get my throw down again.

Great suggesions on altering the surface too. I'm throwing it around 16.5 mph and near 375 rev. So is it possible that at some point ( especially under tournament oil patterns ) that I'm just gonna Need a heavier hooking ball like a 3.5, invasion, maxxx zone, etc?

quote:
on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...
iif you want more backend you need to try cover adjustments...like
Option 1:maybe you just need to hit it with a lower grit pad, the DB has a 2000 grit finish a 1000 finish will have more friction(but not necessarily more backed)
Option2: it could be that the ball is rolling to soon, so maybe adding some polish over the BOX FINISH will be good(will not have as much friction or midlane roll, and it will delivery more energy on the back part of the lane)
Option 3: go for a low grit like 800 or 1000 and apply polish to have surface under the polish

Your driller is good as you said, but sometimes WE(bowlers and drillers) generate confusion with front part of the lane and back part of the lane hook, by the way actually your layout it's WEAK in terms of bowling ball dynamic,s but in most cases a "weak drilling" (5- 5 1/2 to PAP) produces more length and more of a snap turn in the back(not necessarily more BOARDS OF RECOVERY) so he is not out of bounds.
for the Heavy oil question... its always good to have at least a 1-2 punch (one med-dry and other med-heavy)
i can suggest you to get a 500grit abralon pad on your DB and then a 1000grit pad this will make the ball more capable of handling oil better, but this will let you without a ball for medium-dryer lanes, because if you use your db with that surface on dryer lanes or ths it will roll out in the mid-lane and you will have a burned backend specially because the DB is more designed for Medium to Heavy Oil.

And to the answer of the P3 or P4 X-hole they work great and i use them for personal likes, they can work to increase the "Power of the Core(differential,track flare,mb differential)", in a few words you can make a "WEAK BALL/CORE very Strong, and a Very STRONG Ball/Core even stronger" but remember that Surface Preparation its always the #1 and the #2 what kind of Oil pattern are you playing
ea.
i have a mutant drilled with a p4 hole at 4000 that i use on med-heavy oil, and i have another drilled the same but with box finish(2000), and trust me the 2000 OUT HOOKs(in terms of Overall hook and Backend) like by 8 boards the 4000(IN Heavy 44 ft oil) but in a ths the 4000 hooks more and has a better recovery and stronger also, like by 6 boards compared to the 2000abralon mutant cell.

Hope it Helps

TMack · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2010, 07:35:08 AM »

As some have already mentioned a P3 weight hole would do the trick. The layout you have is basically a "control" drilling. Because the ball has a symmetric core, the PSA (or MB) is actually in the thumb hole area. If your driller could drill the finger holes deeper (say 3") to add some thumb weight, then add a P3 weight hole (moving the PSA closer to the weight hole), you will in effect decrease the drilling angle, which increases the flare on the ball. Play with the surface to get the desired reaction.

stormed1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:30:56 AM »

Withour knowing the OP's pap we can only guess What he pin to pap distance is. I have people i drill for that the layout in the pic would be 3 3/8 and others it woud be 6 inches. So the layout pictured could be very strong to very weak. Ball manufacturers normally tell us to use 5 over and 1 up for a generic axis measurement if not known
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JohnP · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:11:48 AM »

stormed1 is absolutely right, without knowing your PAP location all anyone can do is guess, and I don't think that's what you want. Mark your PAP on the ball and take another picture of it, with the distance between the pin and the PAP, so we can give you intelligent opinions. -- JohnP

« **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:37:21 AM »

In additon to the layout/balance hole opinions, the factory surface on the Diamondback paired up with the coverstock tends to read pretty early on the lane.
Try taking it to 4000, or even adding a little polish and you'll see a bigger move late. I've done that with mine and it's a real monster that borderlines on "too strong" at times for me. Best of luck. This ball is a keeper!

--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

mj79 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:52:18 AM »

Thanks everyone for the tips! I will mark out my pap next time I throw it.. Its so new im not seeing anything right now, and I rub it down quite a bit while bowling and use rubbing alcohol after every 3 games, so I have no idea where its at now...

As far as getting another ball to compliment it what would suggestions be? I like the way this rolls like I said But I would like to throw out a little more with a little more backend on heavier conditions. So What would you guys suggest I also ordered the blue/black/white T zone for a spare ball from him, which will be my first spare ball ever, so Im excited for that to!

ginro · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2010, 04:51:00 PM »

quote:
I don't know where you get that from. For me that would be roughly 4 1/2 - 4 3/4

quote:
on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...

--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club

1.Bacause i dont know his PAP, and on every ball manufacturer and in a drilling training camp they told that if you dont know a bowlers PAP and you dont have the time for measuring the PAP or a Bowling alley to see how he rolls the ball, you should put the Pin Over the Bridge, that in most cases will be a 5- 5 1/2 pin from Pap.
2.- almost every bowler that i measure has a pap from 4 1/2 - 5 1/2, so if for you its a 4 1/2-4 3/4 pin to pap, you have a Shot Pap

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2010, 05:20:11 PM »

"Shot 3 games on a standard 39 ft house pattern, with a little bit of carrydown,"

Try a few more games with the ball first.

If it still doesn't have the snap you are looking for I would add just a little bit of polish to it. The ball is dull out of the box. Dull does not equal skid snap, even on that drill pattern. Carry down also does not yield good skid snap reaction.

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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "

Adrenaline · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2010, 06:09:26 PM »

quote:
As far as getting another ball to compliment it what would suggestions be? I like the way this rolls like I said But I would like to throw out a little more with a little more backend on heavier conditions. So What would you guys suggest

Morich Mania
--------------------
Mega Friction 78x3x47 278
Virtual Gravity 47x4x40 272
Red Death
Siege
FS/FT N'Tense LevRG
FS/FT Twisted Fury
FS/FT The Sauce
FS/FT Black Widow Solid
FS/FT Kinetic Energy

Mike Austin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:05:26 PM »

quote:
quote:
I don't know where you get that from. For me that would be roughly 4 1/2 - 4 3/4

quote:
on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...

--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club

1.Bacause i dont know his PAP, and on every ball manufacturer and in a drilling training camp they told that if you dont know a bowlers PAP and you dont have the time for measuring the PAP or a Bowling alley to see how he rolls the ball, you should put the Pin Over the Bridge, that in most cases will be a 5- 5 1/2 pin from Pap.
2.- almost every bowler that i measure has a pap from 4 1/2 - 5 1/2, so if for you its a 4 1/2-4 3/4 pin to pap, you have a Shot Pap

Doesn't matter if you took a zillion classes from whomever... you can't make a generalization like that, specially on the internet. Yes, pin over the bridge is a "safe" drill both because of distance from PAP, but also where the bow tie will most likely end up to keep the track from clipping the fingers.

That would be 4 1/2 from my PAP also.

MJ79, try the surface adjustment thing first. I love Brunswick's Rough Buff, if they still make that stuff. Has some texture to it, but with some pressure on the spinner, will be very tacky. Ball will have good length and usually a little more pop on the back. Also, Kidlost could be correct, rolling a few more games to get the factory polish off can help get some more hook too.

So hard to tell with pictures on the internet. If you throw it 19 MPH, then it will be hard to get a ball to have booming back end with so much ball speed.
--------------------
Check out my blog:

www.strikes4days.blogspot.com

ginro · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:59:44 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I don''t know where you get that from. For me that would be roughly 4 1/2 - 4 3/4

quote:
on almost every bowler this will be a 5-5 1/2 from Pap that will produce more length and a snappier backend...

--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club

1.Bacause i dont know his PAP, and on every ball manufacturer and in a drilling training camp they told that if you dont know a bowlers PAP and you dont have the time for measuring the PAP or a Bowling alley to see how he rolls the ball, you should put the Pin Over the Bridge, that in most cases will be a 5- 5 1/2 pin from Pap.
2.- almost every bowler that i measure has a pap from 4 1/2 - 5 1/2, so if for you its a 4 1/2-4 3/4 pin to pap, you have a Shot Pap

Doesn''t matter if you took a zillion classes from whomever... you can''t make a generalization like that, specially on the internet. Yes, pin over the bridge is a "safe" drill both because of distance from PAP, but also where the bow tie will most likely end up to keep the track from clipping the fingers.

That would be 4 1/2 from my PAP also.

MJ79, try the surface adjustment thing first. I love Brunswick''s Rough Buff, if they still make that stuff. Has some texture to it, but with some pressure on the spinner, will be very tacky. Ball will have good length and usually a little more pop on the back. Also, Kidlost could be correct, rolling a few more games to get the factory polish off can help get some more hook too.

So hard to tell with pictures on the internet. If you throw it 19 MPH, then it will be hard to get a ball to have booming back end with so much ball speed.
--------------------
Check out my blog:

www.strikes4days.blogspot.com

Im talking from my experience...
almost 90% of my costumers end with that Pin Placement at 5- 5 1/2 inch PIn TO PAP...(yeah others also ARE 4" or 4 1/2") but in my case FOR ALMOST EVERY BOWLER ITS 5- 5 1/2
Im not making a generalization of THAT NEEDS TO BE HIS PIN TO PAP DISTANCE OF 5 5 1/2
AND AS YOU SEE IM TRYING TO HELP MJ79 TELLING HIM THAT SURFACE ADJUSTMENTS ARE THE THINGS THAT HE NEED TO TEST FIRST.

Edited on 3/20/2010 9:02 PM

Author Topic: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback?? (Read 4739 times)

mj79

Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

ginro

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

mj79

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

Adrenaline

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

ginro

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

TMack

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

stormed1

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

JohnP

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

mj79

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

ginro

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

kidlost2000

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

Adrenaline

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

Mike Austin

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

ginro

Re: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback??

Author Topic: *Drillers* can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback?? (Read 4739 times)

Author Topic: Drillers can you tell me how my layout looks on my new Diamondback?? (Read 4739 times)