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Author Topic: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"  (Read 2552 times)

dizzyfugu

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I post this in the Brunswick forum, hoping to get some expert insight. Some info about me (from the profile):
PAP: 5" right, 7/8" up
Track: High (semi roller), very close to thumb hole
Axis tilt: 18,7° (Initial track diameter 10 2/3")
Axis rotation: ~45°, can be adjusted ~20-90°;
RPM: ~250-300 RPM;
Ball Speed: 14-15mph at pin deck, rather slow
Preferred line: Between 2nd and 3rd arrow with a belly shot out to 4th-8th board. Balls tend to move a lot with my low speed, short oil can be a challenge. Can play deeper (4th arrow and more) or closer (1st arrow) to the gutter if the lane calls for it, also good control with hand positions for extra length or roll. Prefer ball reactions with length and a rather arcing back end, not too flippy.

Long, but I think it is helpful to my queastion. As you might know, I am a big fan of "antique" equipment - and by chance I came across a NIB Fuze Igniter that would IMO basically perfectly fit the current gap in my arsenal between my Revolution Renegade (pin above ring finger, stacked) and the Visionary Frankie May Gryphon (pin under ring finger, stacked).
As a pearl reactive with a non-so-low RG and a medium RG diff., paired with the hard Aggressive Reactive SS coverstock, for extra length, I always had an eye out for one of this pieces... and now the opportunity!

But there is a drawback: it is a 4-5.5" pin ball (top weight unknown, but I currently try to find it out and will add it if I hopefully receive the concrete specs). The Igniter was designed to go long and flip hard, "under" the RR Fuze which I had and liked a lot, as well as its particle cousin, Eliminator.

I intend to use this Igniter on medium, rather fresh lanes with 37-42' of oil or later shots, when the FMG starts burning up, with a slight swing. The ball should OOB be a good if not perfect basis for this purpose and my game, but I am concerned about the long pin. That's the dilemma I am in

This long pin will probably force me to put it above the fingers, something like Brusnwick's standard layout 2L (like the Renegade mentioned above, 2L is, in fact a favorite of mine and works very well) - and even strengthen the flippy breakpoint potential. I am not sure if I really WANT this out of the ball. Might look spectacular, but will lack control, esp. with the hard surface of the Igniter. Sure, surface adjustmets are an option, but I plan a glossy finish (either polished or a 3M Trizact rubbing compound surface, which adds traction at the breakpoint on those balls I tried it)

Back to the ball itself: My question is - do you think it is either sensible to drill the ball with the pin about 4.75" from the PAP (would end up between bridge and ring finger) and swing the CG out a bit (probably with a small balance hole) for the conditions in mind and to tame down the breakpoint a bit at the same time? Or would you see other drilling options with this specific ball?

I'd love to put the pin under the fingers, like trhe FMG just on a polished pearl ball for extra length - but I guess that will not be possible?

Another idea, which worked pretty well with a SR300 some time ago, is to put the pin into the ring finger hole - but there is still much pin distance which will put the CG very close to the thumb, and I am not sure if this can be compensated for with drilling tricks?

I have a very experienced ball driller at hand (Brunswick amateur staffer), but I'd like to gather some additional impressions (also about the ball in general, last reviews are from 2005) or suggestions before I take action and end up with a ball that simply cannot fulfil its desired purpose due to the specs?

Long post, but I hope I could point out the specific problem I have. Thanks a lot in advance and for reading this far.  
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AngloBowler

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 08:31:26 AM »
It sounds like you want a long ball with a reasonable backend without a mad-angled breakpoint...

I'd go with 45° pin above the fingers (about 0.75-1" vertically above the top of the fingerhole), your 4.75" would do well, although with your rev dominant game you shouldn't have any problem with 5" either. The longish, highish pin should give you plenty of length, and the 45° (or even 25°) will tame the breakpoint making it a little more even. This layout will put the cg just below the midline so you can put a weighthole on the VAL in thumb positive quadrant. The only proviso of this is that if the top weight is a little high, then this might not be workable.

Just my thoughts, as an enthusiastic amateur
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charlest

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 10:19:01 AM »
Dizzy,

As an owner and user of a Renegade, let me suggest that the Igniter (still have my old 15 lb one, being saved for when I have to go back to 15 lb balls) will not fit between the Renegade and the FM Gryphon, with respect to handling oil, at least. I don't have my Renegade's pin above the bridge but it is a 5" pin to PAP. The solid cover on the Renegade compares to the Brunswick PK 18 solid coverstock; I could never get Revolution to tell me which cover it was.

The Igniter will most certainly have more backend, being a pearl, but it won't handle more oil. The Igniter should be a goto ball when the Renegade is too strong or hooks too early, even if the Renegade is polished.


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dizzyfugu

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2008, 03:45:50 AM »
quote:
It sounds like you want a long ball with a reasonable backend without a mad-angled breakpoint...


Exact - or that's what I am a bit afraid of. First of all thanks a lot for your feedback, it is very helpful and highly appreciated

The Igniter had been designed to skid a lot on oil, and with the good experience so far with my SBG, which is also a hard piece ans probably behaves similarly on oil and non-oil, I'd happily give the Iggy a try. In the reviews section many users stated that they had good success with the Iggy as long as they'd stay aggressive - and that's the same for me with the SBG. So I am confident about the ball's "fit" to my game.

But, yes, I am afraid that it is a very flippy piece. And with the long pin, it would be a very good basis for a "high end angular" layout, but I do not think that this is sensible with this hard coverstock. Unfortunately I haven't heard anything about the gross and top weight yet, so maybe there is still some more margin for layout options.

Aynway, thanks for the confirmation about my idea of putting the pin at 4.75-5" from PAP and the CG not stacked. I have a polished Reaction Rip with such a layout (pin above the bridge, I guess it is 5.25", CG in palm below), I use this ball mainly in summer when I need a high performance piece in high friction. I like the hockey stick like reaction, can open up the lane with it, but it does not work at all on longer oil or carrydown.

The Iggy, with a lower RG and less differential, would IMHO even less useful with the same layout, so I tend to the pin-above-fingers-CG-swung-out idea, plus there's room for surface changes, anyway, since the ball has been in a warehouse for 5 years now and the surface ahs surely suffered - I had this case with my Renegade, too, which was OOB a dud but became a true performer once its surface had been touched up again.

Again, thanks a lot for your help, and if someone has additional info or impressions, you are welcome!
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 08:51:05 AM »
Additional info arrived:

The ball has a 4 3/4 inch pin, TW-4,2.

That's quite a lot top weight, I think? I guess it will be a flippy thing...
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 04:00:14 PM »
To decrease snap I tend to add earlier flare....Say by having pin above ring say 4 inch pin to pap....will add more flare in midlanes and reduce .....snap.


REgards,

Luckylefty
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302efi

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 04:12:18 PM »
quote:
Additional info arrived:

The ball has a 4 3/4 inch pin, TW-4,2.

That's quite a lot top weight, I think? I guess it will be a flippy thing...
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In the Brunswick forum, CG & TW no matter in reaction !

Would 4.2 ounces really have an effect on a 15lb object ?

No, but where you put the X-hole would.
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Edited on 4/28/2008 4:13 PM

dizzyfugu

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Re: Tempted by a Fuze Igniter... layout question to "those-who-know"
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 08:55:56 AM »
Thanks a lot for all your input and PMs - after some consideration I decided to pass on this ball, because the specs won't yield what I want/need, and I do not want to drill a ball "against its nature". But the info was very helpful, anyway - great support, and many thanks to CharlesT as "the voice of wisdom".

Bowl well!
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany