Post by: LotsaBalls on June 03, 2010, 01:29:02 AM
Post by: BKloss on June 03, 2010, 10:33:17 AM
--------------------
Post by: LotsaBalls on June 03, 2010, 11:23:59 AM
Post by: Jpd on June 03, 2010, 11:40:23 AM
Post by: J_w73 on June 03, 2010, 12:12:41 PM
Thinking 5 " pin to pap with the pin above ring finger... Maybe 30-40* to the VAL..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: J_w73 on June 03, 2010, 12:21:43 PM
quote:
I was out of town for a tournament on memorial weekend and there was a staffer throwing one and it looked good. Alot more in the back than I expected but still very smooth.
any idea on the layout ???
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: LotsaBalls on June 03, 2010, 12:34:31 PM
Post by: RichH on June 03, 2010, 02:44:49 PM
--------------------
Rich Huzina
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
IBPSIA Adavanced Tech
USBC Silver Coach
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of the Brunswick Corporation
Post by: mj79 on June 04, 2010, 02:54:19 AM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: charlest on June 04, 2010, 06:22:06 AM
quote:
is there a difference with the siiar and abralon pads?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
What kind of difference are you looking for?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: mj79 on June 04, 2010, 12:39:42 PM
quote:quote:
is there a difference with the siiar and abralon pads?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
What kind of difference are you looking for?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
??? im not.. im wondering if there is a difference between the 2... like are they the same thing, with different names or what
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: J_w73 on June 04, 2010, 01:27:14 PM
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: charlest on June 04, 2010, 04:10:54 PM
quote:quote:quote:
is there a difference with the siiar and abralon pads?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
What kind of difference are you looking for?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
??? im not.. im wondering if there is a difference between the 2... like are they the same thing, with different names or what
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
They use different abrasives but they use the same grading system, FEPA. So P2000 grit FEPA = P2000 grit FEPA, whether it is applied by an Abralon pad or a Siaair Velvet pad or by a wet/dry sandpaper.
I had found the Siaair to last slightly longer and to cost slightly less than an Abralon pad.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on June 04, 2010, 04:24:42 PM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
is there a difference with the siiar and abralon pads?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
What kind of difference are you looking for?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
??? im not.. im wondering if there is a difference between the 2... like are they the same thing, with different names or what
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
They use different abrasives but they use the same grading system, FEPA. So P2000 grit FEPA = P2000 grit FEPA, whether it is applied by an Abralon pad or a Siaair Velvet pad or by a wet/dry sandpaper.
I had found the Siaair to last slightly longer and to cost slightly less than an Abralon pad.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
yes same grading system but I heard the finish and reaction is slightly different between the two manufacturers..
That may be do to the fact that the SIAAIR last and cut the same for a longer period of time. I have not personally tested them though.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: J_w73 on June 04, 2010, 08:48:43 PM
Ball is definitely weak and smooth.. when I hit the dry the ball didn't jump off of it at all.. Lanes were way to slick for the ball ..
I will try it again on my Tuesday league where the lanes are usually toasted..
Will report back then..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: mj79 on June 04, 2010, 09:50:32 PM
quote:
I just got my avalanche pearl. I didn't use angles to lay it out, sorry.. but I put the pin about an inch above the ring finger and the CG kicked right of the ring finger a bit.. 5" pin to PAP. PAP 5 1/2 over and 3/8 up.. cg ended up just above the midline and to the right of the ring finger..
Ball is definitely weak and smooth.. when I hit the dry the ball didn't jump off of it at all.. Lanes were way to slick for the ball ..
I will try it again on my Tuesday league where the lanes are usually toasted..
Will report back then..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
your house doesnt oil for leagues? Or is it a smaller league?
Our house oils 1/2 the lanes on monday for the sport league ( USBC nationals pattern ) , and a 38foot house shot on the other 1/2 of the lanes on thursday.. 2 day a week oiling I guess until fall leagues when I think it goes to 3 days a week
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on June 04, 2010, 09:51:23 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on June 04, 2010, 09:51:24 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: J_w73 on June 05, 2010, 12:02:43 AM
quote:quote:
I just got my avalanche pearl. I didn''t use angles to lay it out, sorry.. but I put the pin about an inch above the ring finger and the CG kicked right of the ring finger a bit.. 5" pin to PAP. PAP 5 1/2 over and 3/8 up.. cg ended up just above the midline and to the right of the ring finger..
Ball is definitely weak and smooth.. when I hit the dry the ball didn''t jump off of it at all.. Lanes were way to slick for the ball ..
I will try it again on my Tuesday league where the lanes are usually toasted..
Will report back then..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
your house doesnt oil for leagues? Or is it a smaller league?
Our house oils 1/2 the lanes on monday for the sport league ( USBC nationals pattern ) , and a 38foot house shot on the other 1/2 of the lanes on thursday.. 2 day a week oiling I guess until fall leagues when I think it goes to 3 days a week
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T-Zone
Brunswick Black Ice Zone
Columbia 300 Freeze
17 mph ball speed
360 Rev
Work in progress
HAHA.. Don''t get me started.. this house doesn''t care about bowling or bowlers.. In walking with the machine down the lane while it oiled I knew more about how it worked than the guy that has been using it for 2 years to oil the lanes.
Not one person that works in the bowling alley actually bowls..
They have no clue what they are doing .. I get in an argument with the manager at least once a season..
Let me put it this way.. Do any of you guys pay the same lineage for summer leagues that you do winter...?? We do..
Their reasoning.. "Well you are actually getting a bargain cause lineage is going from $12 to $14 next winter""....
funny thing is this super dry shot is better than the usual oil during the winter.. its usually spotty dry left of 8 and a spotty flood right of 8..
atleast the dry shot has recovery if you miss right..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Edited on 6/5/2010 0:05 AM
Post by: LotsaBalls on June 06, 2010, 08:48:14 PM
Post by: Jcom on June 09, 2010, 01:49:14 AM
--------------------
Jordan Harrison
Strike Zone Pro Shops
Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: bitbytebit on June 17, 2010, 10:40:06 PM
I keep breaking my plastic balls around the thumbhole because of my track rolling over the thumb hole and my higher ball speed. This is in less than a month they break, and I have done it to 3 different plastic balls now.
Seems a pearl urethane is a good choice for a spare ball, if thrown up the back with the hand and drilled with one of those drillings that make it go straight.
I've been trying to find a USBC and PBA approved rubber spare ball in 15# and this seems very hard without either paying way too much because they are collectors items or some weird cheap off brand which worries me about quality.
So the Avalanche Urethane looks very interesting to me as a spare ball, but wondering what others think. I always thought the blue pearl urethane hammer would be good, and this seems sort of similar.
Thanks,
Chris
Post by: charlest on June 17, 2010, 10:52:42 PM
quote:
So am I thinking crazy or would this ball drilled right be a good solid spare ball?
I keep breaking my plastic balls around the thumbhole because of my track rolling over the thumb hole and my higher ball speed. This is in less than a month they break, and I have done it to 3 different plastic balls now.
Seems a pearl urethane is a good choice for a spare ball, if thrown up the back with the hand and drilled with one of those drillings that make it go straight.
I've been trying to find a USBC and PBA approved rubber spare ball in 15# and this seems very hard without either paying way too much because they are collectors items or some weird cheap off brand which worries me about quality.
So the Avalanche Urethane looks very interesting to me as a spare ball, but wondering what others think. I always thought the blue pearl urethane hammer would be good, and this seems sort of similar.
Thanks,
Chris
Possibly.
Put the pin on your PAP (point CG towards the grip center) and it could work.
I think if you dulled it, it might roll out sooner, in which case a Groove urethane is a safer and CHEAPER bet.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: RSalas on June 17, 2010, 10:53:04 PM
--------------------
Ray Salas
Brunswick Amateur Staff
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
Post by: LotsaBalls on June 17, 2010, 11:15:56 PM
Post by: J_w73 on June 17, 2010, 11:29:29 PM
quote:
Mine is very strong, not at all what I was hoping for. It's not a bad ball and it will get some use but I wouldn't consider it a urethane type reaction. i never seen a urethane read the friction like this ball. I was practicing with Tom Smallwood earlier in the week and he had the same opinion of it. Very smooth on lighter volume patterns, but I think it will be to strong on the shorter sport patterns.
how do you have yours drilled.. pin to pap.. and pin to VAL..
Mine isn't strong at all.. kind of disappointed in the backend..
ball has trouble getting the ten out..
I just chalked it up to the lanes not being dry enough..
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: golfnutFL on June 17, 2010, 11:34:46 PM
quote:
Mine is very strong, not at all what I was hoping for. It's not a bad ball and it will get some use but I wouldn't consider it a urethane type reaction. i never seen a urethane read the friction like this ball. I was practicing with Tom Smallwood earlier in the week and he had the same opinion of it. Very smooth on lighter volume patterns, but I think it will be to strong on the shorter sport patterns.
Post by: J_Mac on June 18, 2010, 12:05:32 AM
quote:
So am I thinking crazy or would this ball drilled right be a good solid spare ball?
I keep breaking my plastic balls around the thumbhole because of my track rolling over the thumb hole and my higher ball speed. This is in less than a month they break, and I have done it to 3 different plastic balls now.
In regards to plastic spare balls cracking around the thumb - yes, a urethane ball will hold up immensely better to that sort of abuse. I had similar issues and prefer urethane to polyester for my spare ball.
Out of curiosity, did you use a thumb slug in those plastic balls that cracked around the thumb hole? Local shop has been eliminating the slug on spare balls and that has decreased this sort of problem as well.
--------------------
Bowlingballreviews.com... Gone, but not forgotten. Wayback Machine - http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Post by: bitbytebit on June 18, 2010, 12:14:28 AM
quote:quote:
So am I thinking crazy or would this ball drilled right be a good solid spare ball?
I keep breaking my plastic balls around the thumbhole because of my track rolling over the thumb hole and my higher ball speed. This is in less than a month they break, and I have done it to 3 different plastic balls now.
In regards to plastic spare balls cracking around the thumb - yes, a urethane ball will hold up immensely better to that sort of abuse. I had similar issues and prefer urethane to polyester for my spare ball.
Out of curiosity, did you use a thumb slug in those plastic balls that cracked around the thumb hole? Local shop has been eliminating the slug on spare balls and that has decreased this sort of problem as well.
--------------------
Bowlingballreviews.com... Gone, but not forgotten. Wayback Machine - http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Yeah I have a thumb slug in the spare balls, one was a vise IT system actually and it got to where I had to finally pry the IT Slug out of the hole cause it was almost completely jammed in there from the cracks. The first was a Vis-A-Ball and second a T-Zone, this one is a blue dot. The blue dot has decided to totally crack and actually having the plastic fall out of the ball already (it's only 3 weeks old). I guess cause it's more brittle, I had feared that it could be worse with a blue dot, sad because I really like how straight this thing goes.
I had another idea that I had read about where you have the thumb hole drilled out really large and plug it, then drill the thumb hole. So I guess in theory that would possibly make it less likely to crack from having either a bigger hole or different material around the thumb hole or avoiding the glue directly on the plastic.
I like the idea though of a urethane or rubber spare ball, plastic seems cheap and with it cracking just makes me feel my assumptions are correct. I am amazed that the avalanche urethane might not be a good choice from looking at the perfect scale on bowlingball.com and seeing it lower than any of the other urethanes. Then again I see the durometer of it is slightly lower than the natural or grenade which is odd, since would think it'd be harder being pearlized (then again not sure why I think that, don't know if it would make it harder with pearl).
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
Post by: on June 18, 2010, 03:10:57 AM
Try the Groove Urethane as a spare ball. Mine is great.
The Avalanche Urethane would probably be more movement than I want. So far mine has been a pleasant surprise because I was expecting a "dart" but I can play up the dry boards even on fresh with it. Good luck.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: LotsaBalls on June 18, 2010, 09:53:38 AM
quote:quote:
Mine is very strong, not at all what I was hoping for. It's not a bad ball and it will get some use but I wouldn't consider it a urethane type reaction. i never seen a urethane read the friction like this ball. I was practicing with Tom Smallwood earlier in the week and he had the same opinion of it. Very smooth on lighter volume patterns, but I think it will be to strong on the shorter sport patterns.
how do you have yours drilled.. pin to pap.. and pin to VAL..
Mine isn't strong at all.. kind of disappointed in the backend..
ball has trouble getting the ten out..
I just chalked it up to the lanes not being dry enough..
4in pin to pap and a 2 in pin buffer.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 220,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: charlest on June 18, 2010, 10:27:07 AM
quote:quote:quote:
So am I thinking crazy or would this ball drilled right be a good solid spare ball?
I keep breaking my plastic balls around the thumbhole because of my track rolling over the thumb hole and my higher ball speed. This is in less than a month they break, and I have done it to 3 different plastic balls now.
In regards to plastic spare balls cracking around the thumb - yes, a urethane ball will hold up immensely better to that sort of abuse. I had similar issues and prefer urethane to polyester for my spare ball.
Out of curiosity, did you use a thumb slug in those plastic balls that cracked around the thumb hole? Local shop has been eliminating the slug on spare balls and that has decreased this sort of problem as well.
--------------------
Bowlingballreviews.com... Gone, but not forgotten. Wayback Machine - http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Yeah I have a thumb slug in the spare balls, one was a vise IT system actually and it got to where I had to finally pry the IT Slug out of the hole cause it was almost completely jammed in there from the cracks. The first was a Vis-A-Ball and second a T-Zone, this one is a blue dot. The blue dot has decided to totally crack and actually having the plastic fall out of the ball already (it's only 3 weeks old). I guess cause it's more brittle, I had feared that it could be worse with a blue dot, sad because I really like how straight this thing goes.
I had another idea that I had read about where you have the thumb hole drilled out really large and plug it, then drill the thumb hole. So I guess in theory that would possibly make it less likely to crack from having either a bigger hole or different material around the thumb hole or avoiding the glue directly on the plastic.
I like the idea though of a urethane or rubber spare ball, plastic seems cheap and with it cracking just makes me feel my assumptions are correct. I am amazed that the avalanche urethane might not be a good choice from looking at the perfect scale on bowlingball.com and seeing it lower than any of the other urethanes. Then again I see the durometer of it is slightly lower than the natural or grenade which is odd, since would think it'd be harder being pearlized (then again not sure why I think that, don't know if it would make it harder with pearl).
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
Chris,
If I may,
1. W/r to the perfect scale on bowlingball.com, we don't have any clue as to how they develop those numbers. Many people think it's just advertising. I don't see how the Avalanche Urethane can be a lower number than some others, like the Groove urethane which uses a plain pancake core. So I just wouldn't use it, untilt they explain how they get the numbers and justify them.
2. Pearlized balls are not harder than solids. They are the same hardness, in general. What they are is less elastic. That is, they deform less under pressure. Just sitting there on the lane, a solid of one ball has a greater contact surface than the pearl of the same surface. This is true, AFAIK, for resins. I am not certain if the same principleholds true for urethane. It probably does.
The Avalanche urethane will hook more and react more dynamically, mostly due to its core, than the Groove Urethane which has a simple pancake core. The Groove will more than likely make a better overall spare ball, especially if you polished it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on June 18, 2010, 10:30:27 AM
quote:
Mine is very strong, not at all what I was hoping for. It's not a bad ball and it will get some use but I wouldn't consider it a urethane type reaction. i never seen a urethane read the friction like this ball. I was practicing with Tom Smallwood earlier in the week and he had the same opinion of it. Very smooth on lighter volume patterns, but I think it will be to strong on the shorter sport patterns.
That might depend on the drilling and the bowler's hand.
I saw Johnny Petraglia practicing with "them". He had 3 of the Avalanche's drilled up. To say he loves them would be a major understatement. He had one pretty dull and was playing a good number of boards on a pattern that usually requires a medium strength resin ball. He had the other 2 polished but drilled differently.
I guess I better get mine drilled up soon.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: bitbytebit on June 18, 2010, 10:30:29 AM
. Also looking on Ebay right now seems there's no pancake core urethane balls in 15# sizes which are reasonably priced and would be an approved ball across PBA/USBC. I'd go with the groove urethane if I found a source, I'm guessing my proshop guy can't just order one anymore since they don't seem to be in production. Thanks,
Chris
Post by: charlest on June 18, 2010, 12:46:00 PM
quote:
Yeah I see the groove urethane definitely looks good, except from what I can tell it's hard to find a 15# one since they don't seem to be in production anymore
Thanks,
Chris
I'd check with Brunsnick here. I think he's now working for Brunswick, not 100% positive.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: tywithay on June 18, 2010, 01:12:52 PM
Post by: bitbytebit on June 18, 2010, 01:15:31 PM
quote:
http://www.bowling.com/products/brunswick-groove-urethane-dark-blue-light-blue.htm
Ah cool, thanks that's awesome, crazy how couldn't find it in google searching for it. Looks like what I'm looking for, will double check if my driller can also get these since he wraps the drilling price into the ball price. Otherwise looks like I'll be buying it from there.
Post by: on June 18, 2010, 01:43:53 PM
One more consideration for you. How many pins are you shooting at with your spare ball? One, two, maybe three?
The reason I ask is because every ball I use is 15 lbs. EXCEPT my spare ball, which is 14 pounds. The reason is I like more deflection to convert the baby split when it happens. When I'm shooting at corner pins who cares that it's lighter? I can also speed it up if necessary, or I can use my normal delivery. I'm only trying to knock down 1 or 2 pins 99% of the time.
The other advantage is that over the course of many years and "billions" of spare attempts it is less wear and tear on my body.
I'm very happy that my Groove Urethane has been a great spare ball. Mine also came highly polished, which is a bonus.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: bitbytebit on June 18, 2010, 02:25:34 PM
Thanks,
Chris
quote:
One more consideration for you. How many pins are you shooting at with your spare ball? One, two, maybe three?
The reason I ask is because every ball I use is 15 lbs. EXCEPT my spare ball, which is 14 pounds. The reason is I like more deflection to convert the baby split when it happens. When I'm shooting at corner pins who cares that it's lighter? I can also speed it up if necessary, or I can use my normal delivery. I'm only trying to knock down 1 or 2 pins 99% of the time.
The other advantage is that over the course of many years and "billions" of spare attempts it is less wear and tear on my body.
I'm very happy that my Groove Urethane has been a great spare ball. Mine also came highly polished, which is a bonus.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: dougb on June 18, 2010, 05:18:51 PM
And if anybody's interested, I have a single drill Black Rhino in 15 (might be 1.5 drills, need to look at the thumb). It has the pancake core and urethane shell.