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Author Topic: Brunswick's cg propaganda  (Read 12515 times)

sammy the sage

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Brunswick's cg propaganda
« on: July 06, 2005, 01:30:49 PM »
would do any nation proud...http://www.brunswickbowling.com/uploads/vids/CG_demo_5-05.wmv

excellent video...but they left out a few details....

1st as pointed out by many...why compare a legal to an illegal ball...where's the the weight-hole to take out the thumb-weight/side-weight???? oops that might have produced something you don't want the USBC to see on film...

2nd speaking of film...lane-dressing for said video...we all know lanes can be dressed to increase/decrease reaction....have seen house shots or floods make all equipment look identical...but put them on a sport shot...and one can easily see things much quicker...obviously the video producers kept that "little" secret in the dark....don't think the usbc or higher ave. bowler is fooled by that video at all...

3rd/final...brunswick left hand should tell the right hand what it's doing....ie. on the brunswick insiders site...RICK BENOIT...brunswick's own ACKNOWLEDGED QURU goes into great detail about when and when not to use stacked leverage (you can look it up for youselves)...i.e the position of the cg in relation to pin and pap...A DIRECT CONTRADICTION to brunswick's OWN-HYPED video...

This all coming from a company who exhibits nothing but greed...LET'S move to MEXICO....they have NO CREDIBILITY

 

sammy the sage

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2005, 10:54:46 PM »
Well got 14 other projects going...a_ak57....it's been fun...and damn-it...it won't change a thing...it's all about the green-stuff anyway's you look at it...USBC included....

By the way...all these changes...(at least my thoughts are)...aimed entirely at columbia's new "epoxy" ball anyways...has nothing to do w/stuff currently on market...just my 2 cents...

a_ak57

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2005, 11:03:08 PM »
All right then, bye sammy.  I should get to bed, I've got to wake up in 7 hours anyways.
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- Andy


Brunswick...........'nuff said.

stanski

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2005, 01:33:28 AM »
No one is going to argue with you because at this point, NO ONE GIVES A FLYING FU@K ABOUT CG'S, SO SHUT THE FU@K UP ALREADY
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stanski

BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2005, 01:41:42 AM »
When did Brunswick come out and say the CG doesnt matter ever?  The only time it doesnt matter is when you're using a strong mb (or PSA) weight block.  Any plain ole symmetrical ball, the CG still DOES matter, as its degree of layout is what determines the motion of the ball down lane, as explained in a well documented booklet by Denny Torgerson.  Again, to reiterate, I dont think its ever been ANY ball company's stand that the CG never matters, its just irrelevant when dealing with strong mass biased balls.

BrunsNick

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2005, 01:42:57 AM »
 <--- this topic
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badder™
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick

stanski

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2005, 01:50:56 AM »
quote:
When did Brunswick come out and say the CG doesnt matter ever?  The only time it doesnt matter is when you're using a strong mb (or PSA) weight block.  Any plain ole symmetrical ball, the CG still DOES matter, as its degree of layout is what determines the motion of the ball down lane, as explained in a well documented booklet by Denny Torgerson.  Again, to reiterate, I dont think its ever been ANY ball company's stand that the CG never matters, its just irrelevant when dealing with strong mass biased balls.


You obviously haven't read any cg topic for the last 6 months. It has been stated over and over by brunswick representatives that the cg placement on a symmetric cored bowling ball will in no way affect the reaction shape of a bowling ball as long as the pin position is kept the same and no weight hole is used. Basically, core orientation is ruled as being extremely insignificant and the effects of static weights is ruled to be extremely insignificant. If a throwbot cannot tell the difference in reaction, and a pro bowler can't tell the difference, I tend to agree with the statement "just shoot for 3/4 positive side and layout using the pin to pap and distance above midline on symmetric balls." Works for me!

BTW, Morich has also made a statement basically reaffirming brunswicks stand.
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stanski

230-n-up-or-bust

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2005, 02:05:36 PM »
I like puppies.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.


a_ak57

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2005, 02:06:28 PM »
quote:
I like puppies.
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.



Well I like pie.
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- Andy


Brunswick...........'nuff said.

sammy the sage

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2005, 02:20:37 PM »
BTW, Morich has also made a statement basically reaffirming brunswicks stand.

DUH...who pays who to manufacture their balls???

sammy the sage

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2005, 02:24:05 PM »
Looks like the pot just called the kettle black.

Why yes, I certainly did..am guilty..and the other poster and I have......well read the rest of the thread...and put everything into context...everything's hunky dory...

Steven

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2005, 02:31:19 PM »
Sammy: With respect to the following:

quote:
1st as pointed out by many...why compare a legal to an illegal ball...where's the the weight-hole to take out the thumb-weight/side-weight???? oops that might have produced something you don't want the USBC to see on film...


I agree with your statement. Brunswick might very have proved that on symmetric cores, CG in fact does not matter if you eliminate weight-holes. But we all know that if you care about your equipment being legal, weight-holes are sometimes required based on CG position. The reality is that if you lay out a 3-3/8 x 3-3/8 stacked pattern, you need the x-hole if you want your scores to count. And that 3-3/8 x 3-3/8 with an x-hole is going to react measurably different than a 3-3/8 x 5 without an x-hole.

What's the point of arguing an academic physics position if it's not legal to implement?
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

xxZonexx

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2005, 02:31:32 PM »
wait cg's matter
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Your bowling ur self...You are your biggest enemy.

A guy gets on the mta dies, his corpse doing laps around La, Think any one will notice

A guy tells me when arnt bowling good quit getting mad at ur self when ur struggling, he said i wish i had ur tallent at ur age, Be greatful for how good u are.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2005, 03:11:27 PM »
I just can't fathom someone getting so mad about people wanting to dispute something they don't agree with!

The shouting down is irritating but funny.

Forge on Sammy!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Bowljr300

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2005, 08:39:13 PM »
The first thing to remember here is that we are dealing with the same organization that told us that short oil would reduce high scores; it didn't.  Then we were told that 3 units of oil on outer boards would reduce scoring; it didn't.  Then we were told that increasing the weight of pins would reduce scoring; it did for seniors and children, but not for anyone else.

The problem is that the USBC believes that an extra hole makes one a better bowler; it doesn't.

As a proshop operator, extra holes are invaluable for fine tuning ball reaction.
The placement of the cg, in and of itself, does not significantly alter ball reaction without an accompanying weight hole.  A cg can be placed far from the center of the grip without an extra hole, if the starting top weight was low. This ball and one with the cg in the palm would both react very similarly, provided the pin placements were the same. A weight hole, added to a low flaring ball, in a position that increases flare, will show a greater change than that of a high flaring ball.  Today, with balls having large differentials, the weight hole becomes important for reducing flare.  What very few people realize is that leverage drillings on high flaring balls create a "sloppy" flare pattern at the pivot point.  By reducing the amount of flare, either through pin placement or extra hole, the pivot point becomes cleaner and the back end reaction more crisp.  Finally, cg placement on mass bias balls is completely irrelevant.  This statement is supported not only by Brunswick, but also by Mo Pinel, even when his equipment was being manufactured by Columbia, and also supported by Del Warren of Track.

stanski

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Re: Brunswick's cg propaganda
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2005, 11:35:52 PM »
quote:
BTW, Morich has also made a statement basically reaffirming brunswicks stand.

DUH...who pays who to manufacture their balls???


Lane 1 pays to manufacture balls from brunswick. I seem to remember they are very big proponents of the use of cg placement. This completely disproves your point.
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stanski