BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: Dewey24 on September 30, 2016, 12:01:21 PM
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http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/free-quantum-bag/
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Interesting to see a symmetric as a high performance, high hook potential release for change. I can't wait!
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Interesting to see a symmetric as a high performance, high hook potential release for change. I can't wait!
Interesting to see xxx ball???
Hell's bells!!!! FASCINATING to see a QUANTUM again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm buying sight and reviews unseen!!!!!
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any word on a price yet?
I kinda wanted one back in they day, but could never stomach the cost
ohhh who am I kidding, I going to put a pre-order in for the red one today
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any word on a price yet?
I kinda wanted one back in they day, but could never stomach the cost
ohhh who am I kidding, I going to put a pre-order in for the red one today
Buddies has them listed CURRENTLY, for delivery on 11/1/16, at $174.95 delivered. Kind of high but it uses that GREAT Quantum Mushroom core.
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Interesting to see xxx ball???
Hell's bells!!!! FASCINATING to see a QUANTUM again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm buying sight and reviews unseen!!!!!
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Name, color and nostalgia are great gimmicks, but the thick cover combined with strong ball reaction is what sells me
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Look like you will be paying for a 3 tote bag with that price
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I was planning on getting a new bag already, and to have another Quantum plus a bag would be well worth it for that price,
http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/balls/pro-performance/
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Will they still come in the oversized crown royal bags?
Now we need a return of the original hybrid.... Quantum HELIX!! ... even if it's a Viz-A-Ball that looks just like original. BrunsNick. send up the good word!
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Looks like the Quantum Forest Green has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone. Brunswick also created a new Pro Performance category for these balls on their site.
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Interesting to see xxx ball???
Hell's bells!!!! FASCINATING to see a QUANTUM again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm buying sight and reviews unseen!!!!!
Name, color and nostalgia are great gimmicks, but the thick cover combined with strong ball reaction is what sells me
I think/believe that the Quantum name was never a gimmick, except for the Helixes. They had potential, back then, but were at best a niche ball and they were very expensive to make.
The "no-filler" core, like many Lane Masters, some Visionary & Lord Field and some of the original Quantum balls, has me even more interested.
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Looks like the Quantum Forest Green has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone. Brunswick also created a new Pro Performance category for these balls on their site.
And the Fire Pearl has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone 2016 SE.
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Could someone please explain the RG Max and Min on Brunswick's web site?
Does that mean that when you buy a Quantum (or any other Brunswick ball) that the RG of the ball OOB will be anywhere in that range?
RG MAX 2.610
RG MIN 2.557
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Could someone please explain the RG Max and Min on Brunswick's web site?
Does that mean that when you buy a Quantum (or any other Brunswick ball) that the RG of the ball OOB will be anywhere in that range?
RG MAX 2.610
RG MIN 2.557
Every ball has an RG Min and RG Max. Companies usually only report the RG Min
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And the RG min and RG max is how the differential is calculated. As one can see on the Brunswick site, .053 is the diff (diff = track flare)
Take RG Max (2.610) and subtract the RG Mix (2.557) and you have the diff of the ball...and yes, this is how diff is calculated for every ball from every company.
Note: this is not intermediate diff found on asymmetrical balls.
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And the RG min and RG max is how the differential is calculated. As one can see on the Brunswick site, .053 is the diff (diff = track flare)
Take RG Max (2.610) and subtract the RG Mix (2.557) and you have the diff of the ball...and yes, this is how diff is calculated for every ball from every company.
Note: this is not intermediate diff found on asymmetrical balls.
Good point. I didn't think about mentioning the differential part
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Since they now have a new category for these balls will we see more in the future or is this it? Don't tease me with just two!!!
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I was about to like this post then I realized I had been on Facebook farrrrrr too long. LOL
Here's the video teaser:
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Looks like the Quantum Forest Green has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone. Brunswick also created a new Pro Performance category for these balls on their site.
And the Fire Pearl has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone 2016 SE.
Good catch. I didn't even think about the SE since it's not up on their site, which is kind of strange in itself.
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Looks like the Quantum Forest Green has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone. Brunswick also created a new Pro Performance category for these balls on their site.
And the Fire Pearl has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone 2016 SE.
Good catch. I didn't even think about the SE since it's not up on their site, which is kind of strange in itself.
Danger Zone SE was a reward for pro shops for purchasing certain specials at Bowl Expo and other trade shows. It's a limited production, we only built enough to fulfill those orders, so it won't be a catalog ball.
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Looks like the Quantum Forest Green has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone. Brunswick also created a new Pro Performance category for these balls on their site.
And the Fire Pearl has the same coverstock as the Danger Zone 2016 SE.
Good catch. I didn't even think about the SE since it's not up on their site, which is kind of strange in itself.
I've only seen it on Buddies' web site so far.
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Danger Zone SE was a reward for pro shops for purchasing certain specials at Bowl Expo and other trade shows. It's a limited production, we only built enough to fulfill those orders, so it won't be a catalog ball.
Makes sense, thanks for the info.
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I have my Scarlet Quantum I still love to throw. Things hits hard, sounds hard as it hits.
I may just have to spring for the Forest Green.
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I have my Scarlet Quantum I still love to throw. Things hits hard, sounds hard as it hits.
I may just have to spring for the Forest Green.
One of the few urethanes Quantum made.
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I have my Scarlet Quantum I still love to throw. Things hits hard, sounds hard as it hits.
I may just have to spring for the Forest Green.
One of the few urethanes Quantum made.
I thought the Scarlet was the only true urethane shelled Quantum ever made? Anyway I wonder why the price tag on these new balls are higher than the high performance Nirvana's by $15 on buddies anyway. I guess the good news is they aren't as expensive as they were in the 90's like the Helix being I think $300.
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I have my Scarlet Quantum I still love to throw. Things hits hard, sounds hard as it hits.
I may just have to spring for the Forest Green.
One of the few urethanes Quantum made.
I thought the Scarlet was the only true urethane shelled Quantum ever made? Anyway I wonder why the price tag on these new balls are higher than the high performance Nirvana's by $15 on buddies anyway. I guess the good news is they aren't as expensive as they were in the 90's like the Helix being I think $300.
To cover the free 3 ball quantum tote likely
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OK, now don't get me wrong, cause I ain't trying to start nothing, I'm just saying there is something I don't understand.
For years now, bowlers have been told, EVEN WHEN WE INSISTED DIFFERENTLY, that balls with filler type cores were "better" performing and more dynamic than balls with thick shells and no filler in them.
Now Brunswick is coming out with these two balls, and the video they made is highly touting the fact that thicker shells help increase the C.O.R. rating of the ball, and in fact, help increase pin action?
For those who don't already know, C.O.R. is for coefficient of restitution. What it means is that it is a measurement of energy transference from the hitting object to the hit object, which basically means that "it hits the pins harder" if the C.O.R. rating is higher.
SO, which is right? And does it even matter?
Me personally, I think thick shelled, non filler balls are great. I have since I bought my first Faball so many years ago............🤗
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Juggs....I have to 1000000% agree with your thoughts on thick shelled stuff. One of the reasons I gravitate back to Visionary all the time. Still use original Ogres, Green/Blue Centaurs, AMB Centaurs, etc that are nothing but cover and core, no fillers. Less cracking as well.
My thoughts are stuff with filler crack more because the cover is not as thick and is more at risk for cracking. What would crack quicker at your house, a 4 inch thick cement drive or a 10 inch thick cement drive....I think we know the answer.
Something I always thought as well is that balls with filler between the cover and core also cause ball death more quickly as well. As we know, the pores on the ball allow for oil to be absorbed through the cover and thus why we need oil extraction. If the filler between the cover and core stops any oil from going further in the ball, the less room a ball has to absorb oil, and would become oil logged quicker. I have no scientific proof, but I would love someone to run a real study under controlled conditions....not as a bash to any company, just to find out the real life scenarios and the truth.
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The COR limit is .750, the rest is marketing. The advantage of filler is getting the RG lower. The advantage of no filler balls is labor cost, one less step in the process.
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The COR limit is .750, the rest is marketing. The advantage of filler is getting the RG lower. The advantage of no filler balls is labor cost, one less step in the process.
Doesn't it cost more to do a no filler all cover ball?
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No. The cover material costs less than the added labor of a filler core.
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With no filler you have to use multiple cores. Notice 3 ball weights and 3 different cores. Quantum was the first to use filler and keep the same exact core across several weights.
The rest of the industry followed suit. Hammer recently did this more coverstock multiple cores for the black urethane.
Classic industry or recycle, re-use, re-market.
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With no filler you have to use multiple cores. Notice 3 ball weights and 3 different cores. Quantum was the first to use filler and keep the same exact core across several weights.
The rest of the industry followed suit. Hammer recently did this more coverstock multiple cores for the black urethane.
Classic industry or recycle, re-use, re-market.
Which brings my next question. Will there be significant difference in reaction due to the change of cores in the 15lbs and 14lbs balls.
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The COR limit is .750, the rest is marketing. The advantage of filler is getting the RG lower. The advantage of no filler balls is labor cost, one less step in the process.
One of the disadvantages of filler balls is you now have three different materials, core, filler and coverstock, swelling and shrinking with different temperatures and humidities. This would seem to increase the potential for cracking.
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OK, now don't get me wrong, cause I ain't trying to start nothing, I'm just saying there is something I don't understand.
For years now, bowlers have been told, EVEN WHEN WE INSISTED DIFFERENTLY, that balls with filler type cores were "better" performing and more dynamic than balls with thick shells and no filler in them.
Now Brunswick is coming out with these two balls, and the video they made is highly touting the fact that thicker shells help increase the C.O.R. rating of the ball, and in fact, help increase pin action?
For those who don't already know, C.O.R. is for coefficient of restitution. What it means is that it is a measurement of energy transference from the hitting object to the hit object, which basically means that "it hits the pins harder" if the C.O.R. rating is higher.
SO, which is right? And does it even matter?
Me personally, I think thick shelled, non filler balls are great. I have since I bought my first Faball so many years ago............🤗
While I like no filler balls myself, the power of the ball is dependent less on whether or not it has filler, than on how it is designed, how it is drilled and who uses it on what condition.
I like them (no filler balls) mostly because they seem to absorb less oil and once absorbed, they seem to be able to absorb a lot more before they suffer from reduced performance, plus they seem to last longer than no filler balls, in general, not in every case, of course.
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With no filler you have to use multiple cores. Notice 3 ball weights and 3 different cores. Quantum was the first to use filler and keep the same exact core across several weights.
The rest of the industry followed suit. Hammer recently did this more coverstock multiple cores for the black urethane.
Classic industry or recycle, re-use, re-market.
Which brings my next question. Will there be significant difference in reaction due to the change of cores in the 15lbs and 14lbs balls.
That may never be determined. Neither BJI nor BTM test 14 lb. balls.
Few people use both 15 lb. and 14 lb.
Plus you'd have to drill them the same and have the same person throw them on different conditions - testing is tedious and rigorous. So don't hold your breath, waiting for it to happen.
FYI I'd love to see it happen.
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Here's a video that was posted about the Quantum:
https://www.facebook.com/brunswick.bowling/videos/1283557758362839/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
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My question is who's going to be willing to pay $174, $179 for this kind of ball?
Humph, if I shop right, I can buy two, for sure, maybe even three bowling balls for that amount.
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My question is who's going to be willing to pay $174, $179 for this kind of ball?
Humph, if I shop right, I can buy two, for sure, maybe even three bowling balls for that amount.
People are definitely paying for the 3-ball tote that "comes with" the Quantums at that price. But I'm almost just as interested to see what that's like since KR Strikeforce isn't making their bags and shoes anymore.
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The Quantum bag is the exact same as the Brunswick Crown Triple Tote, just a different design.
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I am interested to see if they produce more than just these 2 balls and if they only use the mushroom core shape.
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For those of you wondering if you are "paying" for the free 3 ball tote, I guess you will have your answer come Jan 1 when the promotion period is over. Does the price stay the same or does it fall in line with other product price points. I have a hunch the price point stays the same to show you received a premium for purchasing early and because 20+ years ago, when Quantums were first produced, they were at a premium price point, so I think Big B will price the Quantums again at that premium price point over and above the other product lines in the book.
Just my 2 cents, I could be completely wrong!
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We do believe this is a premium performance product and the jury will be out November 1st to see if people agree. From the engineering to the different process in manufacturing, the Quantum project was a long time in the works. 3 cores, no outers and differential specs on point across the board. There wasn't a need to rename one of the finest performance ball lines in our history.
I get to throw mine for the first time in league tomorrow night. Needless to say, I'm giddy.
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I thought being south of the border was supposed to cut cost?
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Cuántico es mucho dinero!
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I thought being south of the border was supposed to cut cost?
The Quantum is less expensive than it was 20 years ago. Plus, there is a free triple tote bag.
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I thought being south of the border was supposed to cut cost?
The Quantum is less expensive than it was 20 years ago. Plus, there is a free triple tote bag.
Yeah, I vaguely remember the Helix being retailed at $300, not sure but I think if you purchased a Helix you got a free Indigo Quantum spare ball. I remember asking my parents to get me one...until they saw the price tag! lol I ended up getting a Danger Zone and it was money for me! lol
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I thought being south of the border was supposed to cut cost?
The Quantum is less expensive than it was 20 years ago. Plus, there is a free triple tote bag.
All balls are cheaper than the Quantum was 20 years ago, no? ;) I'm anxious to see your video and how it compares to others in the price range, from Brunswick of course.
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I had a Forest Green Quantum. Ball was money. I'd try a Fire Pearl if it gets the 8 out.
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With inflation, $300 in 1996 is about $450 in 2016.
So yes.... Quantum is less "expensive" than it was 20 years ago.
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I remember when the Forest Green, Midnight Blue, and Scarlet urethane hit in 1994 and cost $200 out the door at the shop. People were going nuts over the cost and how could the ball be this expensive. Now we don't blink an eye at that.
Although I throw VBP, I still scour ebay for 14# Original NIB Quantums to store away. Don't find them very often.
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Here's my simple issue with the pricing. Cover is the main determination in reaction. The covers are the same as the Danger Zone yet they want to charge almost $60 more.
Buy a DZ, sand it to 1000 and save yourself $60. This is assuming the price stays the same after the bag promotion.
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Here's my simple issue with the pricing. Cover is the main determination in reaction. The covers are the same as the Danger Zone yet they want to charge almost $60 more.
Buy a DZ, sand it to 1000 and save yourself $60. This is assuming the price stays the same after the bag promotion.
If you think that the cover is the main factor in reaction you are kidding yourself. If all cores were the same then you would be correct but all are not the same. The core has as much (if not more) to do with reaction as the coverstock. The two really work together to get the desired reaction.
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The surface of the ball will have the most bearing on how the ball will react to the lane. But the Quantum does not use filler, so the coverstock is the material filling the ball outside the core. According to Brunswick;
"More coverstock enhances the Coefficient of Restitution which is the ratio of the differences in velocity between two objects before and after a collision. The higher the restitution, the faster the pins will move after being struck by the ball, transferring that increased kinetic energy to the surrounding pins producing greater pin action!"
That is what makes the new Quantum series coverstock different from the Danger Zone's coverstock.
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The HyRoad does not use filler. Price has been upper mid for 8 years now.
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I don't think. I know. This is from over 20 years of drilling countless bowling balls, competing internationally and being on various staffs.
If you guys want to buy into the marketing hype of increased COR, go ahead.
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Balls get to the COR limit with filler. You can only "enhance" something so far. The rest is marketing for a product that is premium priced and cheaper to produce.
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Itsallaboutme and I have spoken MANY times and he knows what he is talking about. The only aspect I want to point out to some folks is I wonder how much R&D Brunswick went through to find the right core shapes for each weight to keep the dynamic integrity from 16 to 15 to 14#s. I wonder how many hours were put in, how many core molds were tried, test balls poured, etc that all contributes to money Brunswick has to recoup in product sales. Core molds, the last time I knew, were very expensive to make.
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I went from playing blades in the early 90's to my last set R7's (don't play golf anymore) and I did notice the difference in trajectory, distance, etc... with golf clubs.
In 2007/8, after bowling for 7 years after a long lay off, I realized these high tech bowling balls were not doing anything different on the lanes for me. Not like golf clubs. That's when I started buying discounted bowling balls. In the last 8 years, I bought one high end ball at regular price, Storms VIVID.
I was fortunate to also be around guys who are/were in the industry. I got to see how balls were made too. And I'm thankful for that. Winning and cashing with lower end balls and discounted balls, well that's enough for me.
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From what I've seen the Quantum's are going for $179 wasn't the VDZ $149? I realize that an increase of $30 but there's a lot more cover involved with the Quantum. I figure that would increase cost to some extent. They are also including a free bag now will that price hold after the bag deal is gone I doubt it. If I had room in my bag I would buy it love my VDZ but the balls appear at least somewhat similar to me.
As far as the COR stuff goes this isn't the first ball made this way and it won't be the last another that hasn't been mentioned is the RG Hysteria was also no filler ball I believe. My guess is any difference is minimal or the manufactures would have went back to no filler balls a long time ago.
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My local pro shop just got in both Quantum balls as demos. I am looking forward to trying them out this evening. I will report back with my opinion of them later (for what it is worth! ;) )
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Too bad the bag deal is only valid in the US. I can get around that, but it would be nice if it was offered in Canada as well.
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It would be nice if they made the Quantums in weights lighter than 14# for those of us that can no longer throw 14# and up.
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Just drilled the fire quantum 65 x 5 x 40 (pin above the ring, cg stacked, no hole). 375 rpm, 17 mph, 5 degrees of tilt and 40 degrees rotation. Bowled on a fresh Beaten Path on Brunswick Pro-anvil. When the lanes were fresh, I didn't even bother using the ball. Once there was friction in the front part of the lane, I was able to use this ball and had the pocket for quite some time. It cleared the fronts with ease and made a definitive motion at the breakpoint. It didn't get kicked left, which was nice to see. Before throwing the ball I lightly scratched the surface with a wet 4000 pad to get rid of some of the factory polish. I will definitely be ordering the green one first thing tomorrow!
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It would be nice if they made the Quantums in weights lighter than 14# for those of us that can no longer throw 14# and up.
Being that Brunswick already is using a different weight block on each of the 14's, 15's and 16's in that they are 2 piece. I seriously doubt they even considered developing another different weight block for 13's and 12's. Because they don't offer a same weight block in any of their other regular line of balls in their (non-2 piece).
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Making a lighter Quantum would likely require a 3 piece design. It would need an outer core to meet target weight and maintain dynamic integrity but would lose the benefits of the thicker shell.
I'd suggest a Danger Zone Vintage in lighter weight as it shares the same coverstock as the Forest Quantum.
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Making a lighter Quantum would likely require a 3 piece design. It would need an outer core to meet target weight and maintain dynamic integrity but would lose the benefits of the thicker shell.
I'd suggest a Danger Zone Vintage in lighter weight as it shares the same coverstock as the Forest Quantum.
I feared it probably wasn't possible with the same quantum core. Back in the days of the original Quantums, no one loved them more than I did. I owned many in 15#. I had two 300's with the Forrest Green Quantum with one being sanctioned and the other non-sanctioned plus more high scores with several Quantums in the 250's ... 260's ... 270's ... etc than any other balls I have ever owned. The only Quantum that didn't do well for me was the Quantum Leap, I believe it was called, but all others I owned were winners.... Unfortunately, at 79 and health not too well, I struggle to get a 190-200 any more with 12# balls.
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It is a definite disappointment that the rereleased Quantums are not available in the lower weights. When these balls were originally introduced "back in the day", one of the selling features was the fact that the lower weights (12, 13) were manufactured with dynamic integrity to ensure the lower weights reacted like the heavier versions. This led to the lightweight engineering principles that Brunswick still uses to this day on their products (and that other manufacturers also use for their 12 and 13lb equipment.)
As someone who has to use 12lb equipment due to physical limitations, I have found after much [expensive] trial and error that Brunswick/Radical/DV8 products tend to have the best overall reaction and carry in the 12lb versions. The Columbia redline products also work well. It would be great to have the opportunity to add these Quantums to my arsenal. People tend to look down on those of us throwing lighter equipment, but if that is what I need to use to bowl pain free then so be it. I still average 200 with the 12lb equipment which is fine with me.
Bring back the lightweight Quantums!!!!
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anyone know if there's any way i could buy just the ball for cheaper? i really don't feel like paying full price for them to ship me a ball then fill out another form and send that in for them to ship the bag (that i don't really need or want anyways)
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If, I could use 15's...I'd be interested as it's that old time full mushroom weight block but in the 14's that other weight block just doesn't turn me on. :)
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anyone know if there's any way i could buy just the ball for cheaper? i really don't feel like paying full price for them to ship me a ball then fill out another form and send that in for them to ship the bag (that i don't really need or want anyways)
Talk to your PSO you might work out a deal where he buys the bag from you for $30 or so. Our local proshop has done this with a few orders
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The crazy part about this that in the last 2 yrs, I have 2 green proactive Quantums, sitting on balls racks, and much to my dismay, these are the balls I use on both of my leagues ( one house and one sport).
These balls perform as well as any benchmark /medium high ball that I own for a 20+ ur old ball. :) If not for this ball, I might of pulled the trigger on one, but as long as I keep 500/2000 on it every 6 games, I'm good to go. Still special after all these yrs.
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Is the Jade Green Quantum stronger or weaker than the 2 new balls.