Post by: BrunsBob on July 26, 2006, 04:19:17 PM
BTW, it's been way too long since I've truly thanked the real Brunswick Nation members for their support of Brunswick. If you don't think you matter......think again. We LUV YA !!! You keep us on our toes in an effort to continue to please and amaze you with our latest offerings. We'll keep working hard so you can succeed on the lanes.
RoB LAW
--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Edited on 7/27/2006 0:43 AM
Post by: Joe Jr on July 27, 2006, 12:32:46 AM
Please don't let this one moron ruin it for the rest of us. Everyone knows he's an idiot whos just trying to cause trouble.
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Edited on 7/21/2005 1:21 PM
Post by: jdhaze on July 27, 2006, 12:54:33 AM
All of these conspiracy posts are absurd. There is no big secret or big cover up over the Red Zone, the Wizard or the move to Mexico. They are not rumors, they are facts that have been brought up on this site a number of times. If you really work in a pro shop, then maybe you should contact your distributor or area ball rep and complain to them for not educating you on the new line of products instead of acting like an attention whore on these boards.
I want to thank the Brunswick staffers who post here, they have been helpful and I appreciate them taking time to post and read the boards.
Please find someplace else to entertain yourself, you gave your two cents and everyone heard it, bumping your own threads and rehashing the same points over and over again is annoying and rather pathetic. Why a moderator hasnt locked these threads already is beyhond me...
JD
Post by: zone72 on July 27, 2006, 01:09:57 AM
in BR. They give us alot of help on the problem about our equipment.
Pls keep on and don't let somebody ruin all of us.
Zone72
P.S. Ric, Rob, i know many bowlers in Asia also read the BR, can u provide
more info about the Intl release. I think all the asian bowlers will
appreciate on this.
Post by: chitown on July 27, 2006, 01:14:48 AM
Is Brunswick a public traded company? I always thought public traded company's financial records were made available to the public?
I kow the move to Mexico did not help sell more balls for brunswick. I know several bowlers that have stopped buying brunswick balls because of this move.
Now I have thought about buying some balls in the inferno line. I'm not sure if I will. Right now my arsenal seems set with Hammer stuff. I'm going to be honest with you guys. The move to mexico ticked me off. Does brunswick have any plants in the U.S. or do they plan on doing all there maufacturing in Mexico?
I personally feel Brunswick will always be around. I know they have lost some bowlers with there move. There will be new bowlers that don't care where the balls are made.
I think that the brunswick people should answer his question about the balls reaction. If it's the same reaction as the other ball then why not say it? Or are the staffers not allowed to say that about this ball?
Edited on 7/27/2006 1:16 AM
Post by: strikestriketapped on July 27, 2006, 01:30:36 AM
Post by: chitown on July 27, 2006, 01:35:25 AM
The only controversy is that according to the numbers, it is no more than a differently-colored Nemesis. Brunswick maintains otherwise, and that people should throw both to see the difference. Personally, I'd like to see that data and if that's really the case, change the numbers to reflect it. Also, it doesn't bother me one bit if it's the same ball with a different color scheme. They do that with the PGs every year. I'd have a problem with a pro shop telling someone to buy a Wizard knowing they've got a perfectly good Nemesis in the bag, but that's hardly Brunswick's fault.
SH
STRIKESTRIKETAPPED, The above is a post reply from a couple of pages back on this site.
I'm sure the brunswick balls are very good. I know the absolute is because I have seen many in action and all looked great. So your view on " who cares where they are made" is not the point. Even though, a lot of people care about the move to Mexico because American workers lost there jobs because of this move.
This is what the problem is. It seems by this post reply that brunswick is not owning up to the fact that the wizard has the same reaction as the nemesis. In fact from this post reply they are telling bowlers to get both and see the difference. At least that's what I got out of it. If that is true then the company is trying to fool the bowlers. Now if that's the case then I don't want anything to do with a company like that.
Now I don't know how true this post reply is.
Edited on 7/27/2006 1:34 AM
Edited on 7/27/2006 1:36 AM
Post by: And1_headach on July 27, 2006, 01:43:37 AM
--------------------
MESSING AROUND IN PRACTICE, IS ONLY PRACTICING BAD HABITS!
Post by: DON DRAPER on July 27, 2006, 06:59:24 AM
Post by: chitown on July 27, 2006, 10:29:19 AM
This is also why none of the staffers have answered his question about "is the reaction the same" They still have not answered that. My question is why don't you guys just give him an answer?
I would also like to know if Brunswick is trying to say these balls have a different reaction like poster Shelly has said. Not to mention Bruns is telling bowlers to buy both.
Post by: shelley on July 27, 2006, 10:38:23 AM
quote:
Not to mention Bruns is telling bowlers to buy both.
That's not really fair to be upset about.
Bowler: Hey, ball company, should I buy this ball?
Ball Company: Yes. In fact, you should buy two. And get your friends to buy two.
SH
Post by: chitown on July 27, 2006, 10:47:41 AM
quote:quote:
Not to mention Bruns is telling bowlers to buy both.
That's not really fair to be upset about.
Bowler: Hey, ball company, should I buy this ball?
Ball Company: Yes. In fact, you should buy two. And get your friends to buy two.
SH
Shelly I see your point but you really have to look at it different. They are telling the consumer to buy both balls under the assumption that there different. When in fact they are the same exact ball. I mean they didn't re release it with the same name like Track did with the Heat. They went all out and changed the name and color. To me that's ok but if your trying to tell the public that the balls have different reactions then that's B.S.
To some that may not be a big deal but to me it is. In your post reply you said Bruns denies they are the same ball. You also say that BRUNS says for bowlers to buy both and see the difference. That is BS if that's the case and I fault Brunswick with trying to fool the bowlers.
Post by: BackToBasics on July 27, 2006, 10:48:10 AM
quote:
The problem is Brunswick is saying there is a difference in reaction with these two balls. Now that is BS.
Have you thrown both? If not, then how can you call it BS? IIRC, BTM stated that the Red Zone had more angle downlane than a polished Strike Zone. It could be pigment related differences (blue vs red) or it could be just manufactoring tolerances from old vactory to new.
I don't see the big deal. If they are the same and you need the reaction then purchase the balls. If they aren't the same and you need the reaction then purchase the balls. If the reaction is not what you need, don't buy them.
All bowling ball companies are in it for a profit. All companies will make a slight change to a ball (like raise the RG .002) and call it 5 boards more. There's a fine line between truth and marketing. But it's all business. Why bash Brunswick when ALL companies do it?
Post by: chitown on July 27, 2006, 11:11:11 AM
If there telling consumers that these balls are different then that is BS in my opinion.
If they would come out and say the Wizard is a remake of the nemesis because this ball had a great reaction so we brought it back with a new look. That is cool. However that is not what is being said.
Hey if Track remade the Animal and called it a different name and color but said it was a remake then that's fine. If they tried to say that it was a different ball and reaction then that would be wrong.
I'm sorry but I don't see other company's trying to fool the consumer. If you can show some examples of other company's doing this that would be great.
I would love for a company to make an old ball with new colors and even a name. Brunswick has done this with the wizard which is cool. I like that approach. I would like to see Track remake the animal in a different color.
What I don't like is Brunswick passing the wizard off as a different ball and reaction. That is simply to fool the consumer and is BS.
This is my opinion and I don't know if this is true. From the staffers post reply's and from what Shelley has said this seems to be what BRUNSWICK is doing. If this is true then I feel it's wrong.
Post by: shelley on July 27, 2006, 12:14:30 PM
quote:
To some that may not be a big deal but to me it is. In your post reply you said Bruns denies they are the same ball. You also say that BRUNS says for bowlers to buy both and see the difference. That is BS if that's the case and I fault Brunswick with trying to fool the bowlers.
Really that's what pro shops are for. I don't fault Brunswick for what they've done, but I most certainly would fault a pro shop for selling a Wizard to someone with a perfectly good Nemesis (I'll ignore the "have both with different layouts and surfaces" because most bowlers aren't like that and those that are probably know why they'd do that). Brunswick doesn't sell to bowlers, they sell to pro shops (through distributors, but they're B2B, not B2C).
Should they say "The Wizard is the same as the Nemesis but in blue instead of orange"? I don't think so. They shouldn't promote them as complementary or different and they don't, really.
SH
Post by: Easy10pins on July 27, 2006, 12:21:21 PM
quote:quote:
I thank you guys for responding I just don't understand why you always dodge the one most important question. Yea I was upset about the re-release of what seems to be the same ball (still no confimation). Just why can't you answer the one most important question?
I believe you have dodged their most important question too.
Because it is so freaking obvious it's kicking you right in the teeth. Read the Nemesis and the Wizard ball chart and they are identical. Read the write ups for each ball and they practically read the same. Damn near every printed word regarding the ball IS THE SAME. But the Wizard does have GLOW ENGRAVING.
Nemesis
Coverstock
PowrKoil 18 Reactive
Color:Black/Orange Solid
Hardness: 76-78
Factory Finish
800-Grit Wet Sand
Core Dynamics
RG Max: 2.580â€
RG Min: 2.536â€
RG Diff: 0.044â€
RG Avg: 4.6
Performance
Hook Potential: 125
Length: 85
Breakpoint Shape: 60
Wizard
PowrKoil18 Reactive
Color: Black/Blue Solid
Hardness: 76-78
Glow Engraving
Factory Finish
800-grit wet sand
Core Dynamics
Two-component Dynamically Symmetrical core
RG Max: 2.580â€
RG Min: 2.536â€
RG Diff: 0.044â€
RG Avg: 4.6 out of 10
Performance
Hook Potential 125
Length 85
Breakpoint Shape 60
If you get both balls with the same out of the box specs and drill them both the same, THEY WILL REACT THE SAME.
Rocket Science 101
--------------------
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Easy10pins on July 27, 2006, 12:37:29 PM
quote:
from what ive read, the guy bought the Wizard, already had the Nemesis and is now pissed off that he has two of virtually the same ball.
With all that is available on the internet, all one has to do is search for information and wah-lah.
Personally, I don't buy any new ball until I read the reviews, talk to the pro shop and watch someone roll it.
--------------------
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: KDawg77 on July 27, 2006, 12:45:49 PM
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Post by: headwest on July 27, 2006, 12:54:23 PM
quote:Are you sure they're not responding because they used the ignore button on you??
Bob, it's why I put the guy on ignore a long time ago. Feel free to do the same
Honestly, I feel kind of slighted that you guys would respond to him and ignore my questions when I'm not getting mean and nasty about it
In case you don't remember or would like to answer now - how is a Wizard different from a Nemesis besides color, and how is a Red Zone different from the Strike Zone in any way other than color and factory polish? The Wizard and Red Zone have both been claimed as different from their seemingly equivalent counterparts, but there is no technical reason known to make this the case. If a Red Zone IS just a factory polished red-colored Strike Zone and a Wizard IS just a blue Nemesis, feel free to confirm that as well, it won't change my views about Brunswick for better or for worse as I understand marketing/business (though I would be somewhat frusturated and disappointed that it would have taken so long to get a straight answer, but I'll get over it
--------------------
Need new stuff? Get it from http://www.birddogbowling.com and get it drilled by Mike Austin!
I dare you to visit http://hammeroftruth.com !
**Don't waste your time - ignore lipscomb770**
Post by: KDawg77 on July 27, 2006, 01:00:54 PM
--------------------
That's right. I said it!
Post by: ChrispyBrownies on July 27, 2006, 01:04:14 PM
viva la nacion de Brunswick!
Chrispy
--------------------
Its hard to play with an inferno and not get burned. Last time I threw my inferno, the opposing bowler definitely got burned.
MY INFERNOS WILL SMOKE YOU!!!
Post by: BackToBasics on July 27, 2006, 01:34:03 PM
You misquoted me. I started the statement about BTM with a IIRC (If I recal correctly) since it had been a week or so ago when I read it and it was in passing. The part about pigment and tolerances was my opinion.
quote:
Ok so they say if there memory serves them correctly. Now remember they testes between 50-100 bowling balls since the Strike Zone. I highly doubt they are gonna remember how angular a polished Strike Zone was. Actually it has been a year since they reviewed the Strikes Zone so make that 100+ balls for sure.
My point is that an independent source mentioned a possible difference in reaction.
chi:
I'm just asking that let's assume that Brunswick has actually said they were two different balls. How can you say it's BS when you personall haven't thrown both drilled identically with the same surface and at the same time? Why question the integrity of the posters without some kind of independent proof?
You asked for another company. Let me ask you this. If I take cover A with RG numbers 2.50 and diff .043. Then I take another ball with cover A with RG numbers 2.51 and diff .048. Should the amount of oil handling capabilities drastically change? Should one be a heavy oil and the other dry?
Post by: sdbowler on July 27, 2006, 03:59:29 PM
As far as the move to Mexico goes, I have stated before I will continue to use Brunswick as long as they continue to make excellent equipment. Brunswick staffers were brought up somewhere else in here. I have only dealt with BrunsPro and he is a heck of a nice guy. Would love to deal with more of them to help sells of Brunswick around the Sioux Falls area.
--------------------
Brunswick
Post by: Djarum on July 27, 2006, 04:19:11 PM
Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: shelley on July 27, 2006, 05:27:20 PM
quote:
Well I guess the Brunswick guys can see it since they aren't answering me why do you think that may be Chad?
Actually they did answer. Possibly in another thread. It went something like "if the numbers are all the same, why would you drill two of them and expect them to react differently." He didn't seem like he was being very nice, kinda sarcastic and kinda annoyed with you. Rightly so at this point.
SH
Post by: FastTracker33 on July 27, 2006, 06:28:59 PM
quote:quote:
Booling--people have answered your questions on here,
(I don't know why) but you don't like the answers. You
claim to work in a pro shop--ask your Brunswick rep, who
comes in the shop.
As for the Brunswick reps who occasionally come on line
here, they do it as a service for us bowlers. I have per-
sonally known BrunsRich for some time--since he worked at the
Orleans. He has always gone out of his way to help others. He
is a good guy and his answers are honest.
They are also not required to answer some clown,kid who continues
to ask questions and insult them. They have never been anything
more than helpful.
As for what Brunswick, the corporation does, they are not answerable
to you or any one else--just read the bottom line, profit or loss.
JDT I have asked them and they answered every question except the most important one being "Do the Wizard and Nemesis react the same?". I have PMed BrunsRicH and he deflected it and I answered every question he asked me. All I want is an answer and I know atleast two people on staff at Brunswick purposly avoided it. It's not hard to answer either Yes or No.
i thought you were nocturnal, Booling?
--------------------
-Brian
Post by: triggerman on July 27, 2006, 06:45:25 PM
quote:quote:
Booling--people have answered your questions on here,
(I don't know why) but you don't like the answers. You
claim to work in a pro shop--ask your Brunswick rep, who
comes in the shop.
As for the Brunswick reps who occasionally come on line
here, they do it as a service for us bowlers. I have per-
sonally known BrunsRich for some time--since he worked at the
Orleans. He has always gone out of his way to help others. He
is a good guy and his answers are honest.
They are also not required to answer some clown,kid who continues
to ask questions and insult them. They have never been anything
more than helpful.
As for what Brunswick, the corporation does, they are not answerable
to you or any one else--just read the bottom line, profit or loss.
JDT I have asked them and they answered every question except the most important one being "Do the Wizard and Nemesis react the same?". I have PMed BrunsRicH and he deflected it and I answered every question he asked me. All I want is an answer and I know atleast two people on staff at Brunswick purposly avoided it. It's not hard to answer either Yes or No.
my opinion, similar, but as bob stated, pigment has always had a factor in reaction, take it with a grain of salt, but my guess is they are every so slightly different because of color. then of course, you have the ever present difference in pk18 batch to batch. big b has tweeked that formula so many times, i am a lane 1 guy, but the silver diamond had pk18, the original was much stronger then the remake, wonder why, formulations, all it takes if for one part of that chemical make up to be tweeked and the reaction is different. heck 2 nemisis's drilled the same probably dont react exactly the same (read core mass bias) you cannot even get two of the orignial ones to react the same even with the same pins/drillings, close yes, but the same? no. so drop it there is no clear cut answer to this
Edited on 7/27/2006 6:41 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on July 27, 2006, 06:49:34 PM
quote:
JDT I have asked them and they answered every question except the most important one being "Do the Wizard and Nemesis react the same?". I have PMed BrunsRicH and he deflected it and I answered every question he asked me. All I want is an answer and I know atleast two people on staff at Brunswick purposly avoided it. It's not hard to answer either Yes or No.
Dude, you have reached TROLL status and going on my MOST IGNORED list. I have posted it for you to read and even someone quoted my post just for yu0.
The Nemesis and the Wizard, with the same specs out of the box, drilled the same will react the same. In a perfect world - you will be able to find both balls with the same exact top weight and pin placement.
No Brunswick rep will respond to you because they have all IGNORED you.
And you still haven't answered the question regarding the location of the pro shop that you claim to work in.
I'll wait for a direct response from you before I ignore you though but I feel that you will DEFLECT and ignore this post as you have so many others.
Aloha.
--------------------
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Edited on 7/27/2006 6:46 PM
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on July 27, 2006, 07:43:56 PM
According to your profile, you work in a pro shop. Therefore, you have access to almost every ball available out there, right?
Why not drill a Wizard and a Nemesis exactly the same and throw them on the same pattern and test the theory yourself?
Why is it so important to get an answer from the Brunswick Gods? If someone from Brunswick tells you they'll react the same, will you believe it?
--------------------
White Dot
Where am I going and why am I in this basket?
"I wish I was in Tijuana...eating barbequed iguana..."
GO LEAFS GO!!
Edited on 7/27/2006 7:40 PM
Post by: FastTracker33 on July 27, 2006, 07:49:23 PM
quote:
Trolling Eh....thats a much better name for him
LOL, i almost fell out of my seat!
--------------------
-Brian
Post by: BrunsBob on July 27, 2006, 08:35:17 PM
It is not normally our policy to discuss business practices publicly on these forums. We have indeed answered any questions asked to us in person by shops and bowlers.
RoB LAW
--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Post by: sdbowler on July 27, 2006, 08:41:46 PM
--------------------
Brunswick
Post by: Easy10pins on July 27, 2006, 08:48:42 PM
--------------------
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: MTFD24 on July 27, 2006, 09:01:44 PM
quote:
My god. It's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion.
ROFLOL.....better than the Blue Collar Comedy Tour
--------------------
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
Post by: chitown on July 28, 2006, 01:05:44 AM
quote:
Wow!!!! I've never seen someone so obsessed. It's a friggin bowling ball dude. As for them having the same reaction......MAYBE! :-)
It is not normally our policy to discuss business practices publicly on these forums. We have indeed answered any questions asked to us in person by shops and bowlers.
RoB LAW
--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
I hate to say this bud but your still dancing around the question. You say MAYBE the reaction is the same? Come on now you sound like your not wanting to admitt that it is. Maybe, is a cop out answer.
I want to ask this question myself. Why dance around this guys question? Why not just tell him the reaction will be the same because it's the same ball. By not answering this just proves that Brunswick is trying to hide the fact that it's the same ball. If the ball is great just re release it like the other ball company's do. Go ahead and change the color as well. That's cool. There is nothing wrong with a re release. What's worng is trying to pass it off as a totally different ball and reaction.
By you staffers dancing around this guys question just shows that Brunswick must not want this ball to be considered a re-release.
Post by: Xfest on July 28, 2006, 02:14:25 AM
quote:quote:
My god. It's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion.
ROFLOL.....better than the Blue Collar Comedy Tour
--------------------
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
mayonaise
Mayonaise theres alot of trolls on ballreviews, buddy =].
"quoted from larry the cable guy"
--------------------
ÈĻ Arsenèl
Track Mean Machine (Heavy)
Lane #1 Dirty Bomb (Med-Heavy)
Track Machine (Medium)
Brunswick Original Inferno (Light-Med)
Track Desert Heat (Light)
Brunswick Ambush (Spare)
I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]
Post by: BrunsNick on July 28, 2006, 02:26:08 AM
Thank you Rick for posting, its always great to see you on here!
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BrunsNick on July 28, 2006, 02:40:14 AM
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BrunsNick on July 28, 2006, 03:14:04 AM
Little Larry... OMG, the day DAMIEN makes a post here is the day I run for the f'n hills!
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BrunsBob on July 28, 2006, 08:53:41 AM
"Maybe" was meant to be a joke. We have never "danced" around the question. If we were to be asked in a mature way and not attacked you might find that we are more than willing to talk about any balls reaction. I have said in past posts weeks ago that the balls were meant to be similar and that color change might be the slight difference.
RoB LAW
--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Post by: Joe Jr on July 28, 2006, 07:55:34 PM
--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Edited on 7/21/2005 1:21 PM
Post by: Xfest on July 28, 2006, 10:09:09 PM
quote:
Little Larry... OMG, the day DAMIEN makes a post here is the day I run for the f'n hills!
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
what would it be nick, BrunsDAMIEN ?
--------------------
ÈĻ Arsenèl
Track Mean Machine (Heavy)
Lane #1 Dirty Bomb (Med-Heavy)
Track Machine (Medium)
Brunswick Original Inferno (Light-Med)
Track Desert Heat (Light)
Brunswick Ambush (Spare)
I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]
Post by: laner7pin on July 30, 2006, 02:09:33 PM
I would like to thank ALL the people at Brunswick, the salespeople (gotta be "PC" you know) who post here regularly like BrunsBob and BrunsRicH, the R&D Dept for creating the best cores/coverstocks in the business, guys like BrunsNick for being very helpful and knowledgable on B products and making videos to show the ball reactions (wether it is a house shot or not which is what 90% of us bowl on everyday anyways!), to all pro shop owners/operators on here who specialize in Brunswick products. I have learned a HUGE amount in the last year and a half about bowling and brunswick products in general by reading posts on here and experimenting in the shop with my own equipment. When customers come into our pro shop and ask for a ball, I get a bit of info from them (line they play, amount of speed/hand they have, and what kind of reaction they are looking for) I show them what is in the B line first and generally they like the recommendation and get a Brunswick ball. Since I have thrown a good bit of the Brunswick balls in the timeframe plus seen other styles use various B balls (low rev, cranker, same ball with different surfaces) it gives me more knowledge of the products and can better know what I want for my game as well as others. So for that I thank everyone at Brunswick.
Since this whole thing seemed to start as the Wizard and Nemesis are the same ball and the Red Zone is a shiny Strike Zone, here is my opinion (with Laner humor inserted in most statements):
Wizard and Nemesis are not the same ball, they have different colors and the Wizard has glow engraving. Also, I have heard that different color pigmentation can vary reaction (not an expert but I am sure somebody can clear this up). Blue/Black with Orange engravings may be more cosmetically better to some than the Orange/Black combo with white/yellow engravings. If you liked the Nemesis and want another, drill a Wizard slightly different to get a another look/reaction.
Red Zone and Strike Zone are also not the same ball. One is shiny and Red, the other is dull and Blue. Switch the surface and again the color difference may play a role (again not an expert). I have a Red Zone with about 5 games on it so far and I can say it is very similar to my Classic Zone, just a tad earlier and not as violent (same drilling as my Classic except the pin is closer to my grip on the Red). I have not tried it at 800 grit to compare to a Strike Zone, but for me, there is not enough oil around to need to do that. Scott drilled a Red and dulled it down and said the Strike Zone with a similar drilling was more aggressive dull the a Red.
Laner
--------------------
Unoffical Brunswick staff 06-07
Viva la Nacion!
Post by: kmanestor22 on July 30, 2006, 02:32:24 PM
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Post by: J_Mac on July 30, 2006, 02:55:26 PM
quote:
Didn't ebonite re-release the stinger low-flare as one of the ices? Why ain't this guy on a crusade to ruin ebonite too?
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Because it was a different coverstock if I recall.
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."