win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?  (Read 10030 times)

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« on: December 12, 2006, 12:13:27 PM »
I drilled my Total tonight and threw it a few games before drilling the weight hole. It had 1.5 oz. of positive side weight and 1/4 oz. thumb prior to x-hole.

 It was ok but very long and mild off the dry. I went back in and let the driller put a x-hole to bring the side back to 1/2 oz. positive. Took it back out and it killed it. It now goes longer than my Smokin White Pin with even less backend! I couldn't believe it. I then scuffed it with a green pad by hand and it started checking up a tad bit earlier but still had nothing on the backend.

It is drilled with the pin 4-1/4" from my PAP with it below the bridge. CG is kicked right about 1-1/2". I came home and changed the surface on the spinner. I took it down to 360 abralon and then hit it with a nice coat of Brunswick Factory Finish Polish. I will try it again tomorrow at league and see if that will give it a little more reaction.

If not, I am planning to plug the x-hole and redrill it in a different location. Any suggestions where?

I will post a picture soon.



Edit: Pics added I circled the cg in the pics to be seen easier and also marked my PAP.

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4238816

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4238815

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4238814


--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

Edited on 12/12/2006 9:31 PM

 

Nails

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1703
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2006, 07:01:05 AM »
quote:
I tried it OOB and then tried it scuffed with a 600 grit pad by hand. Then I came home and put it on the spinner and put it at 360 abralon + BFF High Gloss. Threw it last night and it was still about the same. Its not the surface. I know that for a fact as much as I play with surface preps with all my equipment. I can tell the difference in the flare rings before the x-hole and after. Its being plugged now and I will go to the proshop tonight to re-punch the x-hole 2-1/4" down from my PAP on the VAL.


If changing the surface that much didn't help, changing the drill will have little difference and changing the X hole location will have almost no difference.  Surface is much more important than any of the drilling factors.  I'd say the ball might be a bad match up to your style.  I'd be more inclined to sell it while it's on it's first driling so it will have more value.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2006, 10:19:51 AM »
quote:
quote:
I tried it OOB and then tried it scuffed with a 600 grit pad by hand. Then I came home and put it on the spinner and put it at 360 abralon + BFF High Gloss. Threw it last night and it was still about the same. Its not the surface. I know that for a fact as much as I play with surface preps with all my equipment. I can tell the difference in the flare rings before the x-hole and after. Its being plugged now and I will go to the proshop tonight to re-punch the x-hole 2-1/4" down from my PAP on the VAL.


If changing the surface that much didn't help, changing the drill will have little difference and changing the X hole location will have almost no difference.  Surface is much more important than any of the drilling factors.  I'd say the ball might be a bad match up to your style.  I'd be more inclined to sell it while it's on it's first driling so it will have more value.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.




Boy...I sure hope you're wrong!
--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

Mercyless

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2006, 11:25:25 AM »
Just look at the ones on Nicks webpage thats what mine looks like, awhat they are supposed to look like.
--------------------
Representing the Storm Nation.

Djarum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8662
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2006, 12:30:40 PM »
BTW, there was just a hint of sarcasm there.

I know they make a difference. But I remember looking at the video and they had two balls one with and w/o a weight hole, and they both had almost identical reaction.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

duvallite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2006, 04:27:24 PM »
quote:
If changing the surface that much didn't help, changing the drill will have little difference and changing the X hole location will have almost no difference.


I certainly don't agree that changing the x-hole location won't really matter.  You should watch Nick's video which clearly demonstrates that x-hole location can significantly influence ball reaction.  From where his x-hole originally was (very high) to now going to 2 1/4 below, I bet he sees a big change.

Nails

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1703
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2006, 08:22:22 PM »
quote:
I certainly don't agree that changing the x-hole location won't really matter.  You should watch Nick's video which clearly demonstrates that x-hole location can significantly influence ball reaction.  From where his x-hole originally was (very high) to now going to 2 1/4 below, I bet he sees a big change.


I've seen Nick's videos and the ones on Brunswick's site.  Anyone, including Nick, will tell you that cover prep means a lot more than any drilling parameter, even comparing a stacked leverage with a pin axis.  The X hole more determines the shape of the reaction near the break point and is a fine tuning parameter. After watching a lot of information, I would place the X hole's effect at 2-5% of the ball's total reaction.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2006, 09:28:37 PM »
quote:
After watching a lot of information, I would place the X hole's effect at 2-5% of the ball's total reaction.
 



Well guess what....You're wrong!!


UPDATE: I picked my Total up today and tossed it on a fresh league shot. The same exact shot that was out the other night when I was trying it. The x-hole made a world of difference! It purely amazed me to see how much change it made.

 I placed the weighthole 2-1/4" down on the VAL just as Nick suggested. It actually ended up being the exact location of where the MB would be on a asymmetric ball. 6-3/4 from the pin through the cg. I immediately looked down at the track and noticed that the flare had came back. I am now getting about 5"-6" of flare. The oil rings are about 1/4" apart.

This ball now reads the middle Really good and has a VERY NICE hard arc on the backend. On the same shot I played the other night, it was AT LEAST 10 boards stronger! Remember folks, this is at the same surface as what it was with the x-hole in the other location. I did not change the surface at all. Still at 360 abralon + BFF High Gloss.

I never would have believed a x-hole location could change the ball reaction this drastically! The folks at Brunswick know what the hell they are talking about!!


UNREAL!!!!!!!
--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

Fatboy8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3265
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2006, 09:37:03 PM »
To me the X hole really fine tunes a ball. If ya don't like the reaction, put a hole in it! I've came to love balls I didn't like at first, just by putting an X hole in it.

Glad to hear you got what you were after!
--------------------
Lane #1-Ebonite-Brunswick

Nails

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1703
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2006, 09:43:58 PM »
Thar's nice ans I'm glad you're happy, but there is no way that a weight hole made that much of a difference.  It's hard to make a 10 board difference with a major cover surface change.  Either you were throwing it different/better or the lanes were dressed differently.  From day to day, only the pros throw the ball the same way.  The rest of us have timing quirks and release inconsistencies that we're not aware of.  Certainly a 192 average no thumber doesn't repeat shots well enough to know.  Statics don't mean much anymore, and if you originally drilled in to the weight block, you filled it in with a much less dense material than the core is made of.

The second Brunswick video showed a ball with a ton of side weight, then the same ball with a weight hole added to make it legal.  There was a difference in reaction, but the overall hook wasn't affected much.  A weight hole can't affect the reaction as much as you're implying, so another unseen circumstance has taken affect.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2006, 09:58:06 PM »
quote:
Thar's nice ans I'm glad you're happy, but there is no way that a weight hole made that much of a difference.  It's hard to make a 10 board difference with a major cover surface change.  Either you were throwing it different/better or the lanes were dressed differently.  From day to day, only the pros throw the ball the same way.  The rest of us have timing quirks and release inconsistencies that we're not aware of.  Certainly a 192 average no thumber doesn't repeat shots well enough to know.  Statics don't mean much anymore, and if you originally drilled in to the weight block, you filled it in with a much less dense material than the core is made of.

The second Brunswick video showed a ball with a ton of side weight, then the same ball with a weight hole added to make it legal.  There was a difference in reaction, but the overall hook wasn't affected much.  A weight hole can't affect the reaction as much as you're implying, so another unseen circumstance has taken affect.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.




Nails, you can think I am dumb and don't know anything because I am a no-thumber if you want. Just b/c I average 192 and don't use my thumb does not mean I don't know the ins and outs of cover preps and drillings and what not. I know that cover prep is around 50% of ball reaction and drilling is probaly 40% and x-holes would account for the other 10%. Lets just say in this ball experience the x-hole made it from a MILD light oil ball to a NICE strong Medium oiler.

I honestly don't give a crap if you feel it was a impossible change. It made At LEAST a 10 board improvement. As I stated before, the shot was THE SAME EXACT fresh shot as the other night. No one had thrown on them since being oiled 30 minutes prior to my practice session.

I also took it to another house tonight where I had league. It was a little more volume there and compared to the same Smokin WP that I compared it to the other night, it out hooked the SIWP by a ton playing in the oil.
--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

Edited on 12/14/2006 11:00 PM

BrunsNick

  • Brunswick Rep
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7306
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2006, 01:32:15 AM »
When Petraglia was doing using the X-hole Demo Ultimate Inferno, there was an 8 board difference between the Flare Reducing, and Flare Increasing X-hole.

Glad it worked out for you Legend! I look forward to your 300 Game post.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Nick Smith
Digital Media Manager - Brunswick Bowling
http://www.brunswickbowling.com
http://www.youtube.com/c/brunsnick

Nails

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1703
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2006, 06:19:17 AM »
Don't get all bent out of shape legend.  I only meant that people who average below 220 on a house shot don't repeat shots in a way that they an say for sure what caused a certain reaction.  No thumbing is actually more difficult in my opinion to get the same release each time.  Without the thumb as a steering device, axis rotation is difficult to repeat.

Funny how Nick's and Brunswick's show one thing, but then want to talk about something else.  The Brunswick video showed about a 2 board difference between no weight hole and after it was added, mostly how the ball behaved at or beyond the break point.  On one of Nick's videos you could see a decent difference in moving the X hole, but on some of the other shots, you could barely see a difference.  Even Nick might not throw the ball the same enough to tell the difference in the hole.  So many things have to identical to know for sure.  Rev rate, speed, axis rotation, launch angle, break point, etc. must be the same or you won't know what caused the difference.  And if it's not done on a flatter pattern, it means even less.  Haven't you seen the sprayers that throw the ball all over the place and tear up a house shot?

Anyway, I already said I'm happy you got the results you wanted.  I still say that there's no way a change in a weight hole made 10 boards of difference.  Even on a fresh shot, it doesn't always play the same.  One of the houses I play at puts a fresh shot for us and claims to never change anything because they want a big wall for big scores.  Some days I start at around 25, last night I had to start at 40.  Same ball, "same" lane conditions.  That's what I meant about not knowing for sure how much can be attributed to the X hole itself.
--------------------
Telling it like it is.

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2006, 07:55:00 AM »
quote:
The Brunswick video showed about a 2 board difference between no weight hole and after it was added, mostly how the ball behaved at or beyond the break point. On one of Nick's videos you could see a decent difference in moving the X hole, but on some of the other shots, you could barely see a difference.



This is where I think you are getting confused or maybe did not read my entire post at the beginning.

I threw the ball before I even added a x-hole when it still had 1.5 oz. of side and 1/4 oz thumb. The ball did move some and was a bit stronger than my Smokin WP. However, my problem came in after adding the x-hole in the location the driller chose. After I threw the ball and found that the weight hole had completely killed it, I decided to trace my track. My track changed to inverted b/c of the pin down drilling, I found my new axis point which moved quite a bit.

My normal PAP for all my other balls and what I had originally layed this one out on was 4" over and 0 up or down. My new inverted track changed my PAP to 4-1/2" over and 1-1/4" down. Thats a major change and it changed the layout from 4-1/4" pin to pap...to 5-1/4" pin to pap.

After all this, I marked my new PAP and found that the x-hole was placed 2" above my axis. That placement had pretty much killed the flare completely. That is what made all the difference. He now plugged it and moved the weight hole 2-1/4" down from my PAP on the VAL as suggested by BrunsNick. Thats when the flare kicked back in. Thats when I noticed the said 10 board improvement.


There was not a 10 board improvement from before x-hole to the final product. Maybe a few boards. However, there was a 10 board gap from the 2" up x-hole vs. 2-1/4" down x-hole.


I'll end this discussion like this....


It's like Ripleys, Believe it or not...its a fact.
--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

legend4life95

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3802
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2006, 08:10:20 AM »
This will be my last post until after Chritmas. I am leaving in an hour to go on my cruise to the western carribean. I did not want anyone to think I am ignoring them in this post to further replys. Take care!


Tim
--------------------


****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****

WSUstroker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
Re: Is the Total Inferno suppose to be this weak?
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2006, 08:49:48 AM »
Tim, glad everything is working out for you and the ball after the latest change.  Enjoy your trip man, I'm sure it will be a blast.  I'll be busy taking in the 40 degree temperatures in Minnesota, woohoo!
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com