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Author Topic: League Lane Conditions  (Read 9258 times)

Stever5000

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League Lane Conditions
« on: December 04, 2007, 12:17:12 PM »
Got a question that has probably come up before, but I'm asking anyway.  Take that, forum society.

How honestly fair is it to expect a fresh shot for a men's league?  I'm just wondering because it seems pretty fair to me, especially when the other 14/16 teams get a fresh shot.  I don't expect to pay $15 a week and bowl on a pair that has been used by a bunch of kids using plastic balls and house balls after the lanes had been ran.

Anyone else know what I mean?  I don't want to hear about "good bowlers can adjust" and "it's not like you were the only one who had to bowl on it."  I shot 481 and was third high on the pair.  Our 212 ave. shot 522 and one of their bowlers had 497 (granted he only averaged 177.)  I wasn't even close on the high game pot and didn't go anywhere on brackets, which is what I really rely on every week for spending money.

Not trying to whine about this, but I really don't see this being too fair.  What do you think?
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REvans284

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2007, 10:44:53 PM »
quote:
Exactly the open bowlers are aren't there nearly as often as the league bowlers.  So why would anyone turn them away, knowing that theres a good chance they won't come back for awhile.  The league bowler is there every week, he may be pissed at the end of the night, but he will be back


That mentality right there in running a center would drive me to go 15-20 miles or so down the road to the next center.  I'm not one to complain about bowling on a tougher shot, and I do have experience in and like Sport bowling.  But when the shot gets messed up (and without notice) to where I am not properly prepared to handle a given situation, and even if I was, it was much more difficult to score compared to the other lanes.. Then yea, I would complain too if I was big into pot bowling and brackets.  

Showing or saying that they don't care if you are pissed off when something isn't legitimately the same for everyone who is participating is a lack of performing your job responsibilities.  I'm sure your center has a pair designated as break down lanes, and if you have an open bowler let them bowl there until league starts. They aren't used 90% of the time anyway if things are properly maintained.... If not and the house is full, sorry, come by next time at X time or before X time.  If they really wanted to bowl that bad they will...  All of the centers in my area do this and thats part of it.  I've even went in on a night I didn't know they had a full house and they wouldnt give me a lane.  Its not a big deal. When people are there every week bowling for money, it is.

Like alloutsmith3 said.  The casual bowler may spend $50 2 times or 3 times a year.  Your loyal league bowlers (as individuals) spend around $10-20 weekly just in one league, not to mention the money spent on drilling, food, beer (for some), supplies such as tape, towels, rosen, etc..  I'd much rather take care of them first.

Later,

REvans284

Edited on 12/4/2007 11:46 PM

Stever5000

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2007, 11:45:24 PM »
quote:
this is the part that had me rolling on the floor...

quote:
I wasn't even close on the high game pot and didn't go anywhere on brackets, which is what I really rely on every week for spending money.


Someone won the high game pot though, right?    You just need the lanes easy to have a chance right?  You are the personification of what is wrong with the game today.


Excuse me?  First of all, I never once said that I needed an easy shot, by far.  Our house shot is a relatively harder shot than I am used to, yes; but as far as unpredictable ball reaction behavior, I'll be the first to say that something's not right, but I won't be the last.  I've bowled the PBA patterns; I know how to play them.  I'm not a professional, but I can certainly read graphs and have somewhat of a clue what to expect and where to play.  But you cannot prepare for spotty carry-down and unpredictable dry midlanes on a supposedly "fresh" house shot, especially when there's no warning that the lanes had been used until after the last game.

Secondly, how dare you judge me as if you know me.  I asked a legitimate question about lane surface and league standards set by us league bowlers.  You had no right to demean me with such an ugly moronic comment.  If you didn't like what I was asking, you should have left it alone.
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go find a jesus forum if you wanna complain about right and wrong. shove your religious beliefs up your keister and i hereby revoke your man card.
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AngloBowler

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2007, 01:27:09 AM »
"he may be pissed at the end of the night, but he will be back"

This comment just says it all!! This proprietor appears to view the league bowler as some kind of mug/cash machine who he can continue to tap throughout the year. I've encountered managers like this before and I don't think many businesses last a long time without repeat custom.

I dropped out of a league this year because the supposedly freshly dressed lanes had zero backend and were patchy like you wouldn't believe, without having had anyone bowling on them. This wasn't the first time either, last time they'd run out of stripping fluid for the last week. In both cases I felt like they were just stealing money from me, and I don't like turning up to bowl in an environment where scoring is essentially random.
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vilecanards

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2007, 02:16:50 AM »
If you know how to look for it, you can see if there has been someone bowling on your lanes, or if they truly are "fresh". Walk up to the foul line and look for where the oil pattern starts, usually 3-6 inches from the line. Using the reflections of the overhead lighting or pin-deck lighting, you can almost always see the ball marks in the track area or middle of the lane. When you see where those are, you can also tell (in a VERY general way) what kind of bowler was there.... righty/lefty, fairly consistent put-down marks means a fairly consistent bowler/release point, marks scattered around the center of the lane usually means a novice bowler pushing a plastic ball with the resulting indiscriminate destruction of the pattern and caarydown. It is by no means an exact science but, if nothing else it can tell you that there has INDEED been someone bowling on that lane. If this info can help you with your game plan, so much the better.... every little bit of information CAN help!
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r.k.wolfe

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2007, 07:56:18 AM »
quote:
Secondly, how dare you judge me as if you know me. I asked a legitimate question about lane surface and league standards set by us league bowlers. You had no right to demean me with such an ugly moronic comment. If you didn't like what I was asking, you should have left it alone.
 


I believe you forgot a comma between ugly and moronic.  But what do I know, I'm a moron.  You posted and I replied.  I think it is hysterical that you are trying to generate supplementary income from bowling.  

I've bowled in a Brunswick Zone so I know first hand what you're talking about.  It can be disappointing to follow that kind of traffic but I would be just as miffed if they let a league bowler practice on the pair and break them down with a sanded orb.
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justdale

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2007, 08:06:37 AM »
For the money that the proprietor's are charging nowadays, I would expect a fresh shot every night. Clean center, and quick service on the food and beverages. And when we don't get any of that I am one of the first to complain about ( being that I am the league secretary, I get to listen to the bowler's complain).
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Dale Williams
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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2007, 09:01:39 AM »
Yesterday I went to practice a few games after adjusting the surface on a ball, just to see what kind of reaction, etc.

Total waste of time.  The first bad sign was that I had to put away 6 or 7 house balls. Threw 2 warm-up shots extremely slow and way outside. The ball didn't even wrinkle... So much carry-down the ball didn't even sniff a hook.
Asked for the next lane over because I didn't want to move everything too far. Pretty much the same thing. Quit after 6 frames.  Last night in league on a fresh shot (very slick, but clean backends) and it was the opposite. The ball encountered friction and hooked...  Amazing concept isn't it?  Friction actually allowing a ball to move...  

My point is that open play with house balls and other plastic can completely ruin a shot. Bob Hanson said it well.

If I were competing against other bowlers (including brackets or side pots) who didn't have the same crap to bowl on, I'd be angry, too.  Give everyone the same shot, good or bad, and I'm okay with that.  Just don't cripple the guys on 1 or 2 teams because their lanes weren't saved for 15 minutes while you re-dress them.  League bowlers pay the bills when open play is erratic, at best. Think of summer months when open play kids are out doing other things...

Nobody here is asking for EASY, just FAIR!






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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah

Dan Belcher

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2007, 09:12:55 AM »
(Kind of a FIGJAM moment here, but it has its purpose in this thread as an example...)  Our pair of lanes was "flooded" last night outside of 10 -- everyone else on my pair was complaining about how hard it was an dhow it played more like a PBA shot than a regular house pattern.  Which was fine by me -- I moved my feet right, breakpoint left, and rolled it up the back of the ball to grind out a 211, 239, 258.  And our team took 5 out of 7 points, mostly because I was the only person on our team putting up good numbers because I didn't let the shot get to me.  You take what the shot gives you and work with it.  Everyone else got frustrated by not having the wall to bank it off, but I just shut up and bowled and did by best.  And if you bowl well, you might win money.  It depends on what everyone else does too.  If you think your pair of lanes is just unplayable, then don't get in any jackpots that week.

(Believe it or not, the 239 won the 2nd game handicap pot and the 258 won the 3rd game actual pot.  In a men's league.  People on other pairs had complaints about either lots of oil or the left lane being different than the right lane, but no two pairs seemed to have the same complaints in general)

Edited on 12/5/2007 10:15 AM

JOE FALCO

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2007, 09:31:11 AM »
Amazes me how a number of people only see that the original posting talked about losing money. Seems the question is totally overridden by them .. should every one who paid their league fees be entitled to the same shot (good or bad)?

I say if you don't complain to the desk there is no chance that this will STOP! Like a number of others who responded I think leagues that have this happen (allowing OPEN play on lanes about to be made available to Leagues) is NOT ACCEPTABLE! Signing up for a late league almost dictates a USED SHOT .. BUT .. open bowling before scheduled LEAGUE bowling is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Until leagues force the issue they will be NOT RESPECTED!

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2007, 11:04:24 AM »
Dan Belcher brings up a good point in that no lane condition is impossible.  Somehow there's a way to score on every shot.  It may take nearly 3 games to find that certain shot, but there's a way to do it.

Again, I just say make it the same for all bowlers in the same league and no one can complain.  We pay for brackets and side pots BEFORE league play starts, so if your lane is different due to carry-down, or whatever, it's too late. They don't give refunds if your first game was horrible.

I don't buy brackets, so there's no sour grapes here, I do enter the high game pot for a few bucks or 9th &10th frame punch-out, every night, that's about it. I'm just trying to be fair and objective from the standpoint of those who do buy brackets...  Not to mention the fact that some leagues have year end cash awards to those with high average, high scratch & handicap games, high team games, etc.  Everyone should have a "level playing field" so to speak.



 

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spmcgivern

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2007, 11:49:07 AM »
I've heard many different ideas on this issue and I understand that bowlers, especially league bowlers, have certain demands.  Like others on here, I have managed a couple of bowling centers including a 1500 league member AMF center.  I also bowl leagues where there is a lot of side action.  

But last time I checked, the bowling center does not run brackets or side pots.  The league, in the eyes of the establishment, is a competition between two teams on a pair of lanes.  They don't care if the league decides to have brackets and the such.  

Is it unfair that the original poster got a pair of lanes that were difficult and had "no shot"?  NO.  Is it bad practice for the bowling center?  Probably.  

What you tend to run into in these situations is the GM might try to leave at 5pm leaving everything to the night manager who may not have an idea about what is "good business sense" when dealing with league lanes before the league shows up.  Could be a lack of training/understanding, but it happens.  (bowling centers are not a hotbed of superior managers)  Personally, I would do everything in my power to not put open bowlers on league lanes after they have been oiled.  But I can't say I have never done it either.  

I am sorry this happened to the original poster, but perhaps next time you can pay for you side action AFTER practice but before league starts if they let you.
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2007, 11:53:17 AM »
Haha... or if the shot is fresh, at least make it playable...  I subbed in a league Monday night... there was a 196 SERIES, 295 SERIES, and a huge number of 300 series!  I shot a woeful 510 series and was second high in the entire league (15 5-man teams)...  

I agree with you 100% though.  For the average league, people pay good money and should be entitled to a decent fresh shot each week.  If they find it too easy or not enough challenge, then they can join a sport league.

S^2
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themachine300

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2007, 11:56:53 AM »
I apologize for my comment about not caring for the league bowlers feelings at the end of the night, that is not true.  Anytime there is problem with our shot, it is addressed.  We are the only center on our side of Columbia for 20+ miles, and a new subdivision is constantly growing and we are getting better and better business every single week/month.  Most of our leagues are full capacity and they all start at 6:15.  We usually get done oiling the lanes at 5:30 or so.  That only gives a 45 minute window for whoever wants to bowl, to come in and bowl.  Regardless of what pair they bowl on they are messing with someone's shot.  Also, we are an older center with old wood lanes and older machines.  The more oil placed on the lanes, the more ball returns, the more the belts need to be cleaned, etc.  Our shot is easy, and we want to keep it that way.  The more advanced bowler would like the shot to be harder, but the average bowler wants to score as high as they can.  I have seen when our machine get screwed up, people intentionally bowl as bad as they can to prove a point.
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Stever5000

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2007, 02:47:08 PM »
For those of you who read the question and think I'm just whining about the money, thanks for playing.  Tired of dealing with ya, go bash someone else.  See ya!

For everyone else, I appreciate your honest answers.  I know this sort of thing can lean both ways.  It all boils down to the integrity of the bowling center, which I believe was lacking in my case.  Both the owner and the mechanic bowl in this league and are on the same team, so it's not like they didn't know.

A lot would have been different had I known that it was not a fresh shot, and I believe that most of you can agree to that as well had it been you.  Though the open play may have been inevitable for business reasons, I still think that there should have been some kind of warning if they could not rerun the pattern.
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quote:
go find a jesus forum if you wanna complain about right and wrong. shove your religious beliefs up your keister and i hereby revoke your man card.
Tee hee!

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Re: League Lane Conditions
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2007, 03:09:13 PM »
I can adjust to the heads drying out. Carry-down is very difficult because the bowler cannot see it, therefore he starts trying harder and harder to "make" the ball hook, etc.  Often it takes a few frames to determine that carry-down is the likely problem, and in the meantime, your other league bowlers are striking on the "normal" shot.  
 
What about the pocket 8-10 splits, the pocket 5-7 splits (you name 'em) simply because the ball "slid" into the pocket instead of driving through the pocket.
I'm perfectly happy with having the "carry-down mess" if EVERYONE ELSE HAS IT, otherwise it's not a level playing field.








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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah