BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: lefty50 on March 01, 2014, 03:57:28 PM
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Can anyone who has actually thrown both balls compare the Mastermind and/or Mastermind Genius to the C-system Maxxed Out for me please?
Thanks in advance
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Mastermind is the biggest overall hooking of the 3. The genius is closer to a beefed up Maxxed out.
If you just want to replace a Maxxed out with something new then the Genius is a good option. If you want a literal super hook monster then the Mastermind is it.
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Kid, I am confused about one thing. Everything I have seen or heard about these two balls indicate that they are both long. My Maxxed Out is many things, but length is not one of them. Are you saying that the Genius is close to the Maxxed Out in overall hook or in a ball shape as well?
Thanks a lot
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Meanstreak Beatdown is your Maxxed Out replacement
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The Mastermind will be a little more angular in shape and quite a bit stronger than the Maxxed Out. The new Mastermind Genius is a few boards stronger than the Maxxed Out in over all hook but is a much quicker response time. It will give you more length but with greater angularity when encountering friction. The differences between the Genius and the Maxxed out in overall hook will be magnified on the house shot. Those drier boards really get the Genius started and it will show its ability to retain energy and recover when compared with the earlier rolling Maxxed Out. The difference in length between the two will show up greater on the higher volume sport type lane conditions. On those type lane conditions, the surface texture of the Maxxed Out and the Mastermind will get them started sooner. The sooner start will lead to more overall boards covered in that situation. The Mastermind Beatdown is the ball that is closest to the Maxxed Out out of the current lineup.
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Kid, I am confused about one thing. Everything I have seen or heard about these two balls indicate that they are both long. My Maxxed Out is many things, but length is not one of them. Are you saying that the Genius is close to the Maxxed Out in overall hook or in a ball shape as well?
Thanks a lot
It is going to depend on how you drill them. Of the 3 you mention the Genius is the closest thing to a maxxed out. The Mastermind is going to be an overall bigger hooking ball.
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I would agree, if you are looking to replace the Maxxed Out then, the Meanstreak Beatdown is the ball to go with. The Mastermind will be everything Chris said and as well as the Genius.
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I agree, also, that the Beatdown would be closest to the Maxxed Out. I believe it's an improvement though.
The Mastermind is awesome on the fresh, while the Genius will help you create more room as the lanes start to open up, in my estimation.
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Good conversation, thanks to all for the feedback.
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Maxxed out with its tamer core is much smoother than Mastermind. Also a tamer shell. I liked the maxxed out on house shots, and broken down tournament patterns where it would allow me to stay in the track, or push it through broken down heads. Mastermind reads the friction much harder than maxxed out.
Also the maxxed out tames down in a much more noticeable manner after 30 or 40 games to the detriment of us rev challenged guys. Mastermind is almost better when you take the surface to 4000 wet sanded than in box condition.
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Mastermind, even with a slightly polished shell is one of the strongest balls off the breakpoint I have thrown. Maxxed out in box condition is much smoother off the breakpoint. Also the Maxxed out really tamed down quickly from its box condition
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Particularly be careful of purchasing a Maxxed out on the internet.
Though some dealers are acting like they have all pin outs. The only thing that is available is pins of less than 2 and top weights less than 2.5.
Be careful whom you deal with. Those short pins are usually quite smooth off the spot! May not have the Pop you need!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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@Avabob, can you explain a little more what is meant by "tamed down quickly from OOB?" do you mean it soaked up oil quickly or that any surface changes really tamed it quickly?
Also, for all, there were a few presumed trolls/haters at the lanes saying that the Mastermind cover really quickly... Sometimes that does happen with a heavy oiler despite good maintenance... Any evidence in this case?
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My Maxxed out really stopped hitting after about 30 games. Not sure if it was oil, or the surface taming down. I experienced a similar change in my Versamax. On my Mastermind, it did a 4000 wet sand before ever throwing it. I still hit a lot of conditions where I cant get it to push enough, but it remains very strong off the break point, and carry is exceptional when I can use it.
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Beatdown's are discontinued, so you should be able to get one at a great price
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@Avabob, my Maxxed Out is at about 35-40 games right now and has lost it's hitting power too, that's why I asked. Thanks for the reply. I haven't frankly seen that problem in a Brunswick cover, although I'm not an expert on the brand. Glad to hear you haven't seen that in the Mastermind.
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We have a lefty who throws it very nicely still looking great with the Maxxed out after hundreds of games with it! Playing like 9 out to 5 he is!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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It depends on what you are bowling on. My maxxed out was still fine on house shots with lots of friction outside. Problems came for me on flatter patterns. That is where I could really see it die.
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The maxxed-out was a great ball but like many said, "tamed down" quite a bit. But this was due to the cover just lane shining really fast. My entire team threw them last year and we would hit them with a lot of surface in practice knowing how quick they want to clean up. With that many games on your maxxed-out(30 to 40) just hit it with a fresh 1500 or 2000 pad and you will have the original strength and shape.
And for what its worth, the Mastermind and Genius are both much stronger like everyone else has said. The closest to the maxxed-out from what I have seen is actually a Melee with surface to smooth it out. The shape and where it hooks is very similar to the maxxed-out.
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Can anyone who has actually thrown both balls compare the Mastermind and/or Mastermind Genius to the C-system Maxxed Out for me please?
Thanks in advance
The Maxxed has a tamer read of the lanes. Does better on wooden or high friction synthetic lane surfaces, but only as a mid-range ball. The original Mastermind is virtually the same as the Storm Sync. Of the 2 i like the Mastermind as it tends to drive through the pocket cleaner with no deflection. Be aware that the Mastermind cover stock tends to absorb oil like a sponge and keeping the surface clean after usage is recommended. The Mastermind Genius has the best reaction of all 3. It's currently the strongest ball i own. Hits hard with no discernable pocket deflection. Keeping a constant speed is crucial due to the agressive nature of the cover stock. As much as i love the Mastermind i love the Genius more as it makes it look like i have way more hand then i usually do. Lol
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Chris, thanks for the comments. I have to say you are the first person that I've seen with strong positive comments about the Genius. I am absolutely interested in trying the original Mastermind, but I think I will be going with the Yeti Unleashed for Nationals.
After that however, I am definitely looking for something with a little more length and breaks hard off the spot to help my low-rev style. Sounds to me like you have found good success with the Genius in this slot?
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Hmm, The Genius looks good in my house. I don't know how durable.
As to the C system Maxxed out which looks great for a good handed lefty who really gets it down the lane in the air. Day after Day after Day.
I wonder how the Meanstreak Beatdown compares to the C System Maxxed out?
Anyone of the experts above willing to make a comparison?
Thanks,
Luckylefty
PS Walter Ray looked pretty good with his genius at the Senior Tour event this week!
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I absolutely love the Mastermind Genius. It is cleaner than the Mastermind with its hybrid cover, and has a strong arcing type of motion. I have used the Mastermind Genius on house and sport conditions with success, and haven't found a condition that it didn't have a consistent performance. Also, It takes well to cover changes.
Comparing the Maxxed-Out with the Meanstreak Beatdown, the Maxxed-out starts up a little earlier. The Maxxed-Out has a strong midlane roll, and the Beatdown has a strong downlane roll. With both having a solid coverstock, they take well to surface changes. I keep both of mine at 2000, and use them for heavier oil.
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Brandon,
Thank you I have both neither drilled! Do you feel to get as much backend board coverage one should put shorten the pin to PAP on the Meanstreak a slight tad from what you would put on the C Max( I note the lower diff of the Beatdown) We have a guy loving his C Maxx in our house but he lofts the ball half way to the arrows, I don't.
Any other opinions?
On those two good looking symmetrics?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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No. The Pin to PAP distance determines the flare potential, and I would keep both similar. If you are looking for a complimentary reaction for both, I would go with a pin down on the Maxxed-out and a pin up on the Beatdown. You might want to add some rough buff or polish to the Beatdown to give you more flip on the back.
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Lucky, It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I feel that the Maxxed Out and the Beatdown are too similar to drill both at the same time. The Beatdown was the improved replacement for the Maxxed Out. Like Brandon said, drill one pin up and one pin down. In my experience, I did not like my MO pin up but did like my Beatdown pin up. Loved both balls pin down. Both were drilled very similar pin down. Still use my Beatdown every now and then.
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Lefty50, I have three different Genius. Two are drilled for very specific type of reactions and don't get a lot of use. I drilled the 3rd one about 3 weeks ago and I have really only used this ball since. Clean, angular but not unpredictable. Cant beat it. It is by far the cleanest strong cover ball I have ever thrown. This last one I actually drilled really strong for me and still super clean and provides plenty of angle.