win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser  (Read 6523 times)

1MechEng

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
  • Bowling Nerd Herd member
Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« on: July 10, 2012, 08:51:13 AM »
Looking for someone who has thrown both the Ulti-Max and the Hellraiser (DV8) and can make an informed comparison between the 2.
Both are high Rg balls (2.585 vs. 2.591), with similar amounts of core assymmetry (0.016 vs. 0.017). Both have 500 + 1500 +Ruff Buff finishes on a pearl coverstock.
Can I expect similar performance out of these balls?
Thanks in advance!
Dan

 

Brunswick_fan_BrandonH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 09:09:49 AM »
I have both of them, and the Hell Raiser is a stronger ball overall.  The ulti-max has a stronger reaction on the backend of the lane, and the Hell Raiser will read the mid lane sooner.  Also, the Hell Raiser can handle more volume of oil than the ulti-max.  What kind of reaction are you looking to get out of these balls?
Vise Staff Member

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24501
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 09:26:04 AM »
Looking for someone who has thrown both the Ulti-Max and the Hellraiser (DV8) and can make an informed comparison between the 2.
Both are high RG balls (2.585 vs. 2.591), with similar amounts of core asymmetry (0.016 vs. 0.017). Both have 500 + 1500 +Ruff Buff finishes on a pearl coverstock.
Can I expect similar performance out of these balls?
Thanks in advance!

As far as I have heard/learned, the Hell Raiser is not a pearl, but a solid/pearl combination.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

1MechEng

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
  • Bowling Nerd Herd member
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 09:31:06 AM »
Brandon -
I'm looking for more of a skid/flip (angular) reaction. Something abrupt, rather than a smooth move in the mids.
Dan

1MechEng

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
  • Bowling Nerd Herd member
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 09:37:11 AM »
Charlest -
The Hellraiser may be a hybrid solid/pearl, I'm not certain ... the official description is "Class 5 Reactive".
That would explain why it would start up sooner according to Brandon.
Dan

Brunswick_fan_BrandonH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 11:03:16 AM »
If you are looking for a skid/snap reaction, then I would recommend the ulti-max (http://www.bowlwithbrunswick.com/videos/csystem-ulti-max) over the Hell Raiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzLx5qZUlHs). If you can wait until July 25, the Hell Raiser Terror (http://dv8bowling.com/balls/video/hell-raiser-terror) would be a ball that has a skid/snap reaction as well. I should have mine by the end of the week and can give a review then.
Vise Staff Member

mdevore19

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 11:07:39 AM »
The original Hellraiser is a hybrid and has more of a midlane roll.  The ulti-max was one of the strongest downlane hooking balls I had.  I agree with Brandon and go with the Ulti-Max, or if you can wait till the 25th, try a Hellraiser Terror.  I have a 70 x 4.5 x 40 drilling on the Terror and the ball gets down the lane easily and then makes a pretty angular move on the backend.  I don't have my ulti-max anymore so I can't make a direct comparison, but I would say the Terror may be about 1-2 boards stronger.

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24501
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 11:11:21 AM »
Charlest -
The Hellraiser may be a hybrid solid/pearl, I'm not certain ... the official description is "Class 5 Reactive".
That would explain why it would start up sooner according to Brandon.

Pardon my bluntness but, no, it wouldn't.
What would explain it is the strength of the coverstock. If they were the exact same family of resins, it would explain it, but you can't say that in this case. (We don't know that DV8 uses the same resins or even the same resin supplier than Brunswick does.) All one can see is that with similar core and numbers, the HR handles more oil than the Ulti-Max.

In general, solids are stronger than their equivalent pearl and solid/pearl combos are earlier and stronger than their pearls. BUT there are pearls that are stronger than some solids. So it's the actual strength of the coverstock that makes the difference.

That said, don't be too hasty to dismiss the HR or the HR family. The reaction I've seen so far from people using them tend towards an fairly flippy ball reaction. With the right drilling, and the right delivery/release, Hell Raisers, and Revenges can both handle a good deal of oil and have a pretty strong backend. If you're playing more on medium oil than medium-heavy to heavy oil and want that flippy backend, the Ulti-Max is probably more than sufficient, when drilled correctly and for your release.

Good luck..
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

1MechEng

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
  • Bowling Nerd Herd member
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 01:22:18 PM »
Charlest -
I appreciate your bluntness. And you are correct - the composition of the resin does not necessarily mean that a solid will always grab the lane sooner than a pearl at the same surface finish.
And thanks also for your input on the potential ball reaction of the ulti-max for use on medium conditions.
Dan

tommyboy74

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 05:05:57 PM »
Both Brunswick and DV8 use Bayer as the supplier of their covers.  However, both companies use completely different formulations.
Current Ball Arsenal
Heavy:
Roto Grip No Rules
Roto Grip No Rules Pearl Extreme

Med-Heavy:
MOTIV Forge Fire
MOTIV Covert Revolt

Medium:
MOTIV Sigma Sting

Medium-Light
MOTIV Tribal Fire
Roto Grip Nomad Dagger

Long Gone Daddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5471
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 06:31:02 PM »
Looking for someone who has thrown both the Ulti-Max and the Hellraiser (DV8) and can make an informed comparison between the 2.
Both are high RG balls (2.585 vs. 2.591), with similar amounts of core asymmetry (0.016 vs. 0.017). Both have 500 + 1500 +Ruff Buff finishes on a pearl coverstock.
Can I expect similar performance out of these balls?
Thanks in advance!

As far as I have heard/learned, the Hell Raiser is not a pearl, but a solid/pearl combination.

What does that matter?  Have you thrown both the balls?  NO?  Then why do you insist on posting this minutia that means nothing to what the OP is looking for?  Re can all read BTM for ourselves.
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24501
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 07:00:21 PM »
Looking for someone who has thrown both the Ulti-Max and the Hellraiser (DV8) and can make an informed comparison between the 2.
Both are high RG balls (2.585 vs. 2.591), with similar amounts of core asymmetry (0.016 vs. 0.017). Both have 500 + 1500 +Ruff Buff finishes on a pearl coverstock.
Can I expect similar performance out of these balls?
Thanks in advance!

As far as I have heard/learned, the Hell Raiser is not a pearl, but a solid/pearl combination.

What does that matter?  Have you thrown both the balls?  NO?  Then why do you insist on posting this minutia that means nothing to what the OP is looking for?  Re can all read BTM for ourselves.

If you have to ask, if you have to butt in, then you have offered nothing except for your name on the list of repliers.

Is knowledge gained only through direct experience, the only worthwhile knowledge? If so, then all the books ever written and the entire internet is a waste of time. Sharing knowledge through communications is a waste also. All schools, all schooling by every one, every where is also a waste. I think you are wrong. You have your 10 seconds of "fame". Exit, stage right.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Long Gone Daddy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5471
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 08:08:04 PM »
Pal, you're the biggest joke on this site.  From debating which is better, Siair or Abralon, to death to repeating verbatim ball reviews from bowling magazines, you're just a petty prima donna.

If you don't know the difference in value between actually experiencing something vs just reading about it, you're more hopeless than thought.   But I guess that means you'd take the heart surgeon who read about the procedure you need vs. the one who's done the procedure dozens of times.  Dramatic to be sure, but it gets the point across.  Have a great evening, forum prig.

BTW, for those who don't know what a prig is......http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prig
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

1MechEng

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
  • Bowling Nerd Herd member
Re: Need comparison - Ulti-Max vs. Hellraiser
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 09:44:51 PM »
I appreciate ALL of the feedback to my original post. Thanks to everyone who took the time and effort to help me.
@ Long Gone Daddy - I have interacted with Charlest on this site since I joined in 2005. Yes he was pointing out some subtle nuances and errors in my response. He was in fact correct. I value his opinion and input based on my previous conversations with him on this board. Additionally, as I am an engineer, I do enjoy the minutiae and details of the game. His post had relevance, and was not mean or spiteful.
I think we can all learn from each other. That's the beauty of this board. There's a lot of opinions and knowledge that I was hoping to draw on when I asked the original question about the 2 balls. I feel I have gotten some good answers, and will use them in my final decision when I make my next ball purchase. For the record - I'm not positive on which brand I'm even going to buy yet. I'm also looking at the Storm Thunder series (Crossroad, Victory Road, Fire Road) and the Hammer Epidemic.
I'm going to lock the thread now so that it doesn't devolve into something beyond the original scope of the post.
Thanks again to everyone for their help!
Dan
Dan