Post by: TheDude on October 12, 2007, 02:34:10 PM
one box of 10lbs were all under weight more or less they were 9lbs 12oz to 9 lbs 14oz.
This is normal i know. it happens occasionally but the entire batch was like this.
I have some 12lbs that are 12lbs 8oz in the navy gold pearl tzone.
That is the issue that is immediately visable before the balls even exit the box. Secondly;
They are coming out with flat spots. I know polyester balls don't cure the same way compared to a resin of any type, but i haven't seen this from any other manufactuer. Including the Made in China White Dots.
Also they are getting ring marks on them very easily. We had some Tzones sit on a ring for 6 hours and they had a reasonabley deep impression from the ring. We use these rings for all our balls and only do the Tzones have the problem.
I am not a crack nut or wack job. I am not out to bash mexican works, or forgien made products. But brunswick's lack of attention to quality serious blows.
I'm going to return the next brunswick product that comes in with any of these flaws. I rather sit on BO with product then get rushed poor quality product.
12lbs 8oz? 9lbs 12oz? WTH!?
I know there are regional reps on here, but i have contacted them in the past and they don't have control over the processes in mexico.
does anyone know if there is a complaints and compiments email for brunswick?
stopmakingpoorqualityrushedproduct@brunsbowl.com
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Storm VIP Shop
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: DP3 on October 12, 2007, 10:42:18 PM
How does equipment like that get out of the factory as 1sts in the first place? Back when columbia and ebonite had huge lots of blems, they'd be awesome specs, but anything over 5-6oz in weight(12.6, 15.8, 14.10) were considered 2nds and discounted drastically. Was this just a case of meeting a promised demand deadline while sacrificing the small stuff along the way?
And also how do all of the private label Quantums, Morich, and Overseas balls get poured in weeks and sent out while Grooves and Viz-A-Balls are getting more and more rare? Or is there a production hold up on the overseas front too?
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Post by: MegaMav on October 12, 2007, 10:57:02 PM
it would be a shame if a Brunswick pro staffer was DQ'd for that.
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BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net") - "Welcome to the Underground"
BowlingWiki.net (http://"http://www.bowlingwiki.net") - "Where Bowlers Write History"
Post by: Canuck on October 12, 2007, 11:11:43 PM
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-Steve-
Post by: The Bowlers Edge 2 on October 12, 2007, 11:24:40 PM
quote:
How does equipment like that get out of the factory as 1sts in the first place? Back when columbia and ebonite had huge lots of blems, they'd be awesome specs, but anything over 5-6oz in weight(12.6, 15.8, 14.10) were considered 2nds and discounted drastically. Was this just a case of meeting a promised demand deadline while sacrificing the small stuff along the way?
while Grooves and Viz-A-Balls are getting more and more rare? Or is there a production hold up on the overseas front too?
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Told from an un named rep from an un named ball company "when demand is high, there are no 2nds"
people (shops) are happy to get somthing close to what they order when the wait is forever, it took me 7 months to get a miller high life ball for a customer, and another 6 to get a leopard ball. its now been 7 or 8 and i still can't get a black and white spiral. NO WAY a ball company hurting to get stuff would would turn these into 2nds when they are pulling in 1st's money!
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
Post by: J_Mac on October 14, 2007, 10:29:15 AM
quote:
Looks like Brunswick is having a few problems, then, doesnt it?
I wonder when someone will try to clear the air of these problems. This just seems way to sad for no one to try to stop.
It's legit issues like this where it seems the ball reps. keep their distance from. Almost like they're waiting for a public statement from the top of the chain at Brunswick.
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Post by: TheDude on October 14, 2007, 10:35:29 AM
I haven't been contacted by brunswick to remove this post. I have no intention to remove it. There are serious and legit issues here. They don't seem small scale. I have no personal problems with brunswick moving to mexico. I have a problem with shoddy product period.
My suggestions to brunswick are the following:
Make a quality assurance promise to your customers. Follow it, and review complaints to see where trouble spots are coming up.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Storm VIP Shop
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: pnj1967 on October 14, 2007, 11:32:14 AM
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Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.
Users I wont deal with, read my profile.
Post by: J_Mac on October 14, 2007, 11:51:22 AM
quote:
I would love to try a Morich or Brunswick, but I guess I wont with them both being made outside of the USA, and their quality issues.
That's the funny thing, even when Brunswick was having issues with coverstock finishes that looked like someone polished over 100 grit sandpaper, MoRich equipment looked fine.
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"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Post by: REVerse on October 14, 2007, 12:35:18 PM
Hey Truth- You win...
--------------------
Ray
LISTEN Cabo Wabo Radio LIVE (http://"http://www.cabowaboradio.com/")
Post by: rackattack on October 14, 2007, 12:52:23 PM
Mo-Rich Awesome Revs-sold as first quality.Only flaw was 3 cg marks one of which was correct.Great ball.
Brunswick Power Groove-sold as first quality.Strange coloration.The silver and purple do not blend like you would expect from liquids.The purple appears as if it were spray painted into the mold and then the silver was poured in.Top weight mismarked to my benefit.Great ball.
Quantum King Quantum-Heavily discounted.Logos were way off and top weight and cg were mismarked to my benefit.Marked as 1" pin and 2.3 top was actually 3" pin and 3.5 top.Great ball.Note this is a overseas ball and is stamped Made in Mexico.The others only have place of origon on the box.
I do not pay retail for my equipment and my driller checks all specs before layout so these imperfections do not bother me.I do believe Brunswick is operating under a very loose interpretation of first quality.The flaws are not large enough to drive me away at this point but if I were paying full retail the Mo-Rich is the only ball that I feel would have passed as first quality.
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It's all about the X
Post by: TheDude on October 15, 2007, 03:41:07 PM
wonder if there is a meeting taking place in a dark conference room right now.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Storm VIP Shop
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
Post by: RealBowler on October 15, 2007, 03:52:29 PM
quote:
Where is Brunsnick and Hamlin now???
Ric is busy drilling out bad pins and Nick is delivering the balls......quarter mile at a time!
--------------------
Haywood
**************************
I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
**************************
Post by: Joe Jr on October 15, 2007, 03:59:45 PM
quote:
Anyone notice nothing from any of the Bruns people?
wonder if there is a meeting taking place in a dark conference room right now.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Storm VIP Shop
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.
They've posted outside of this section resently.
--------------------
My Vid (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Mystic-25")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Quote from Conspirator300:
And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)
Post by: kev3inp on October 15, 2007, 04:07:11 PM
--------------------
Thanks to gobowlingshow.com for the Bowler's Handbooks and Lane # 1 for the balls this year at the Gathering.
Read my bowling radio reviews at BBAMbowling.com.
Ever listen to Yahoo radio? Try my station; same screen name.
Post by: triggerman on October 15, 2007, 04:15:49 PM
quote:
Chuck Gardner from Brunswick was a guest on the first part of the recent Let's Go Bowling Show that features Mark Baker. He made sure not to mention that their new state of the art, super-duper, technologically advanced plant is in Mexico, nor did he address any quality issues. He did say they're "almost where they want to be" or something to that effect, and kept stressing how much more "creative" the new plant allows them to be. Whatever that means. They have a new bal out with the Fury core, but no name for it yet. I suggest it be called the Brunswick "Free Trade Zone" or the Brunswick H.O. As in "hecho en Mexico."
--------------------
Thanks to gobowlingshow.com for the Bowler's Handbooks and Lane # 1 for the balls this year at the Gathering.
Read my bowling radio reviews at BBAMbowling.com.
Ever listen to Yahoo radio? Try my station; same screen name.
if your workers dont care then all of the creativity in the world wont save you. the company i work for has a plant in mexico as well and if we dont have people down there from up here, we get crap, because they either A) dont care, or B)dont comprehend quality. from what I have seen it is just about numbers down there
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: mrbowlingnut on October 15, 2007, 11:53:48 PM
I have never seen a photo's of the new plant, but i hear from this distributor that it is much more hands on than they want you to think it is.
Post by: Centers on October 16, 2007, 12:01:01 AM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on October 16, 2007, 01:35:24 AM
quote:
My Power Groove Dry/R has a whole bunch of little gouges on it.
Maybe those are the power grooves? Someone at the Mexican plant could read English?
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
Before you ask - Please check this: BR FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Lower_Level on October 16, 2007, 07:55:03 AM
quote:
Of course you wouldn't have problems with Brunswick firing their workers and moving down to Mexico to pay crap wages without passing the savings down to the consumer...you're a Canadian.
Wow. Just wow. Are you that narrow minded that you think the US is the only country that loses jobs to lower wage countries? Good lord.
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Unofficial Member Of The Canadian National Beer Drinking Team
Post by: Nails on October 16, 2007, 12:18:34 PM
CG matters!
Maybe that will wake them up.
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: triggerman on October 16, 2007, 12:22:13 PM
quote:
It's kind of funny how when someone has pleasent news about a Brunswick product, there's always a rep or two coming on immediately to bask in the glory. When there's a problem, not a peep.
CG matters!
Maybe that will wake them up.
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Telling it like it is.
now that was funny
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: 302efi on October 16, 2007, 01:45:42 PM
lol...
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Roto-Grip
When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: rackattack on October 16, 2007, 02:14:25 PM
quote:
Maybe the reason that Bruswick thinks CG don't matter is because the new factory can't find or mark the CG correctly ?
The CG was correct.We just had to figure out which one it was.But,as you know,it really didn't matter which one we chose.
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It's all about the X
Post by: Joe Jr on October 16, 2007, 05:01:34 PM
quote:
I can't believe somebody from Big B hasn't been on here to say SOMETHING about this.
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Real bowlers whiff the 3-10 by putting the ball between the two!
Questions about RICO? http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Search.asp
I agree, they seem to be avoiding this thread like the plague.
--------------------
My Vid (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Mystic-25")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Quote from Conspirator300:
And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)
Post by: Easy10pins on October 16, 2007, 08:02:16 PM
quote:
I agree, they seem to be avoiding this thread like the plague.
Why would they post in this thread? It seems that everyone opinion has already been formed and the bandwagoneers have hitched up as well.
Ric, being a regional rep, probably wouldn't have any detailed information regarding the quality of product or the lack thereof from Brunswicks Mexico plant. And neither would Nick.
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The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: WSUstroker on October 16, 2007, 08:08:05 PM
quote:
Why would they post in this thread? It seems that everyone opinion has already been formed and the bandwagoneers have hitched up as well.
Ric, being a regional rep, probably wouldn't have any detailed information regarding the quality of product or the lack thereof from Brunswicks Mexico plant. And neither would Nick.
--------------------
The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
I think it's just the opposite. If you are a rep for the company, people are likely calling you up when they open up their boxes and see a ball fresh from shoddy production. I would want first hand knowledge from the plant so I can give my customers the correct info, rather than them searching places like here for answers.
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Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: J_Mac on October 16, 2007, 08:12:09 PM
A major problem they're having in Mexico is employee turnaround. It's hard to see a steady increase in product quality when they have to keep re-training new hires.
--------------------
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby
"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Post by: Joe Jr on October 16, 2007, 08:20:12 PM
quote:quote:
I agree, they seem to be avoiding this thread like the plague.
Why would they post in this thread? It seems that everyone opinion has already been formed and the bandwagoneers have hitched up as well.
Ric, being a regional rep, probably wouldn't have any detailed information regarding the quality of product or the lack thereof from Brunswicks Mexico plant. And neither would Nick.
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The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Why? Don't you think the representatives of the company should address the MAJOR problems presented here? Brunswick's reputation is in serious trouble and the people hired to make it look good are nowhere to be found. Even if they just acknowledged these are problems and they’re being addressed, it would be better then nothing.
You can't ignore your customers, because without them they’d be out of business.
--------------------
My Vid (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Mystic-25")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Quote from Conspirator300:
And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)
Post by: Easy10pins on October 16, 2007, 09:23:57 PM
quote:
Why? Don't you think the representatives of the company should address the MAJOR problems presented here? Brunswick's reputation is in serious trouble and the people hired to make it look good are nowhere to be found. Even if they just acknowledged these are problems and they’re being addressed, it would be better then nothing.
You can't ignore your customers, because without them they’d be out of business.
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You assume too much. As stated, many opinions have already been formed regarding their Brunswicks quality. IMO, there's nothing Ric or Nick could/would say that will change that because everyone would nitpick their responses to death and we'd end up with 10 pages of mindless banter.
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The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: laufaye on October 16, 2007, 10:16:25 PM
--------------------
Laufaye
Post by: TheDude on October 16, 2007, 10:24:05 PM
Also secondly RIC. These forums are not just bowlers, many of them are proshop operators and owners. They have issues like mine, and i would rather share them with each other than constantly call a rep at any problem. To know that its not an isolated incident is concerning.
"It is not that we are ignoring this post, it's just that there is no answer that will suffice the issues that are questioned on here."
Someone has to face the fire. If it not be regional reps then put me in contact with the head of QC. Your just a salesman i know that. It's not your fault. But your the ones(sales reps) we are supposed to contact with common issues. It draws to ask the question when did these sort of quality problems become common?
To say there is no answer good enough, to the public that often will yes jump on a bandwagon is true.It's difficult to construct an effective answer to a public that always will act like an angry crowd of romans. They are looking for blood, because there pearl fury hooks too soon. For 'unimportant' questions and problems like that, yes i know it gets frustrating to answer the same question time and time again to an uneducated public.
( 'unimportant'yea it's important but not to these people. Go ask your proshop operator to help you.)
I'm here because i want a truthful answer. If there is a real problem, details about what it is and how and when it will be addressed by would be helpful. Of course it's not for public information, and posting it on a board is not helpful. What is top secret or confidential should remain that.
But, and this is a big but; Having to deal with one ball that is got poor specs or QC is one thing. It's no big deal. But to have it occur constantly doesn't seem to be a hiccup. It seems to be a new lower level of standards.
If this is how the product will continue to come out, then fine. That's how it is.
"If any of you have issues and are in a pro shop, you need to either contact your distributor or your local Brunswick rep. Posting on here is not the best nor quickest way to see or get a response."
Last time i checked this is where most smaller proshops share ideas. I still have only met Frank at trade shows once a year. Never once got a sales visit from him. So am i to wait an entire year to wait until i can ask him questions? If they come up this frequently i'd have to write him a small novel. I am in my shop 12 hours a day sometimes and then get home late. My head is running with ideas or something that happened that day and wish to write about it here at 3 am, because after all the sugar and caffeine has worn out i am thinking more clearly.
I've contacted distributors about issues, and they suggest to be patient or switch to another product.Why should i have to wait 3 months for wizards from every distributor in my region?
BrunsRic....Stop worrying about being flamed by the guy that buys 4 balls a year. Worry about the ones that buy 200+.
you've offically been flamed by an irritated proshop operator.
And i will lock this topic from here on in. Until i receive a customer service call from someone at brunswick, it will remain off my shelves.
quote:
It is not that we are ignoring this post, it's just that there is no answer that will suffice the issues that are questioned on here. And to say we are ignoring our customers is BS. Our customers, the ones that either contact us or are in contact with us directly, receive detailed answers or responses to their questions or issues. Posting on a forum or in a thread is futile and pointless. We know there are quality issues and we are working on any and all QC issues, no matter how miniscule. If any of you have issues and are in a pro shop, you need to either contact your distributor or your local Brunswick rep. Posting on here is not the best nor quickest way to see or get a response.
--------------------
Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling
AKA "Rico" and L.I.M.O.M.
Edited on 10/16/2007 9:22 PM
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
Roto-Grip Star Proshops
Storm VIP Shop
Etonic Stabilites Dress wearer.
Montreal, Quebec.