BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: Stormroto22 on October 06, 2015, 06:28:51 PM
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Hey guys, I'm currently using some storm and roto grip equipment and have been interested in brunswick for a while. Wondering what you guys think would be a good league arsenal and maybe some tournaments as well? Currently I have a storm rocket, iq tour solid, ride, and a roto grip hysteria. What do you guys think would be good for brunswick? I don't have my exact parameters, but my rev rate is higher than average, my ball speed is 16.5, right handed. Thanks in advance!
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Nirvana heavier oil/long patterns
Mastermind Einstein med/med-heavy
Brute Strength or Melee Jab
Soul medium oil
Strike King lighter oil/short patterns
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Strike King, LT48 or Melee Jab, Brute Strength as a starter. Then one of the HP balls if needed.
These listed above will cover a good variety or league and tournament conditions you face. Surface, adjustments as needed.
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Thanks for the quick replies! What if I said dv8 is an option as well. I know dv8 and brunswick are the same essentially
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Vandal, Diva Divine or Rude Dude Outcast.
If you need something for heavier volume you could go Thug Unruly or Thug Corrupt
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Can't go wrong hitting up buddies pro shop clearance.... Always got excellent prices...
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Can't go wrong switching to Motiv. I have been happy with their products for a longer period of time than I ever have been with any other company plus their customer service is a step above the other companies. Almost always same day answers when you Email a question.
When compared to for example Brunswick ... I had a question a while back. I Emailed it. Received an answer 2 days later. I had a second question regarding their response on my first question and now over a month later I still haven't heard back from them. Typical of my experience with them prior to my switching to Motiv.
At the same time I Emailed my question to Brunswick, I also sent a similar question to both Storm and Ebonite and have yet to hear a peep out of them to this day.
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If only there was a phone system in place where you could call and ask a real person…….. Technology willing
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If only there was a phone system in place where you could call and ask a real person…….. Technology willing
When you are hearing impaired like I am, :( no phone system would benefit me.
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I think you'd be impressed with what Motiv has to offer. They actually had involvement in designing cores for Brunswick back in the day as Tech-Line Products. The good things about the brand are the overall development of the line. There really isn't any overlap and I've noticed that the balls are versatile for virtually any style. The covers also hold up very well and can be used much longer before having to do any type of extraction.
Above all though, the service is very tough to beat. Very often with the forum on Motiv's site and also on Facebook, their tour rep Brett Spangler is on there pretty often to answer questions. That is at https://www.facebook.com/MOTIVBowling?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/MOTIVBowling?fref=ts)
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If you're interested in Brunswick products, the 2 balls to really look at are the Nirvana and Melee Jab. Jumping on over to DV8, the Vandal has been the go-to ball for a lot of people.
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If you're interested in Brunswick products, the 2 balls to really look at are the Nirvana and Melee Jab. Jumping on over to DV8, the Vandal has been the go-to ball for a lot of people.
Nick, how do you explain the Brunswick service per my post #6 above?
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I'd be glad to help you with Brunswick questions. Not sure why you weren't responded to, but obviously you're upset enough over it to suggest a competitors product on a Brunswick forum. Feel free to PM as I have always helped you personally in the past.
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I have always enjoyed immediate responses from Nick and other staffers here, so My customer service has been different.
As for balls, I agree on the Melee Jab. Perfect ball to open up the lanes with after they start to break down. The LT-48 is an amazing piece and a step down from the Jab.
As for something above the Jab, I have the Melee Cross which is a great benchmark control piece. A real sleeper and classic old school look. Not a big hook ball though. Buddie's did have them cheap.
I can't speak to anything else in the new line-up except the Gold Rhino Pro. I seem to be the only guy who doesn't like mine.
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Nirvana is looking amazing. Einstein is a winner also. The LT-48 and Strike king are proven performers. Melee Jab, is popular and most everybody seems to like.
Personally if I were putting the money down:
Einstein
Melee Jab
LT-48
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For house shots the Einstein with the shine knocked off will open up the lane well, and I wholeheartedly agree on the Melee Jab! What a great everyday ball!
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Here would be a good league arsenal in order of strength:
Brunswick - Mastermind Einstein, Brute Strength, Melee Jab
DV8 - Thug Corrupt, Vandal, Hooligan Taunt
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I guess switching to Made In Mexico bowling balls (Brunswick/DV8) rather than Made In USA bowling balls (essentially everybody else) appeals to you.
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Didn't know they were made in Mexico lol. But honestly performance is performance to me. If it works it works. But I haven't ever tried a brunswick ball so idk if they work for me
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I guess switching to Made In Mexico bowling balls (Brunswick/DV8) rather than Made In USA bowling balls (essentially everybody else) appeals to you.
Got to love when staffers from other companies that like to promote by trying to bash. Keep up the great work, keep fighting the good cause.
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I guess switching to Made In Mexico bowling balls (Brunswick/DV8) rather than Made In USA bowling balls (essentially everybody else) appeals to you.
Got to love when staffers from other companies that like to promote by trying to bash. Keep up the great work, keep fighting the good cause.
Can't be too bad if they are using the inferno core to sell product.
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This summer I strayed away from Brunswick.Tried Motiv it was ok nothing special.Tried a 900 global it cracked then a Storm which has started cracking around the fingers holes.The 900 global was out of warranty was a closeout ball.Tried to see if the Storm was covered under warranty they said hairline cracks are normal.Well guess what I'm back with Brunswick have never had a ball crack.I have a gold rhino pro which is money on the normal dryer ths.Also a Exile which is fantastic and you can get them at Buddies priced right.Got the Guru Mighty at a great deal there too.Glad I came back to my senses. Brunswick,Radical or Dv8 I don't think you can go wrong.Right now all three brands are making great stuff.I am not a staffer and have thrown all the other companies.I am not bashing any other companies,Just think you won't go wrong trying the Big B brands.
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I guess switching to Made In Mexico bowling balls (Brunswick/DV8) rather than Made In USA bowling balls (essentially everybody else) appeals to you.
Says the guy who only buys MADE IN USA stuff right??? LOL! You have to be stupid if you really think you only buy american products. I bet your car, tennis, pants, tv, etc, etc are less american than a burrito.
So tired of reading about this Made in Mexico stuff regarding Brunswick. What is wrong with that? If you don't like it, don't buy it, shut up and move on!
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I think Brandon certainly has some good ideas for an arsenal. In the Brunswick line I like the Mastermind Einstein, The Melee Jab and a Brute. In the Dv8 Line the Thug Corrupt, the Vandal and the Hooligan Taunt. You can't really go wrong with any of these balls as they are all very good.
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The Einstein has been a very consistent go to ball for me. Its a hp ball but not a hook moster. Makes it more user friendly/more useable.
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This summer I strayed away from Brunswick.Tried Motiv it was ok nothing special.Tried a 900 global it cracked then a Storm which has started cracking around the fingers holes.The 900 global was out of warranty was a closeout ball.Tried to see if the Storm was covered under warranty they said hairline cracks are normal.Well guess what I'm back with Brunswick have never had a ball crack.I have a gold rhino pro which is money on the normal dryer ths.Also a Exile which is fantastic and you can get them at Buddies priced right.Got the Guru Mighty at a great deal there too.Glad I came back to my senses. Brunswick,Radical or Dv8 I don't think you can go wrong.Right now all three brands are making great stuff.I am not a staffer and have thrown all the other companies.I am not bashing any other companies,Just think you won't go wrong trying the Big B brands.
I have never had a Brunswick ball crack. Three and one half years ago before all of my health problems began with both cancer and back problems, I had an all Brunswick arsenal and loved it. However when I was able to return to bowling some what and off and on, I was forced to drop to 12# balls by Dr's orders because of my back. In having to buy new 12# balls, I found that Brunswick didn't put the same performance cores in their 12# & 13# balls that they put in their 14-15-16 lb balls, so I was forced to look around and found that Motiv did put their same performance cores in their 12-13 lb balls, so I was forced to switch to Motiv because of the core thing. If not for that, I would still be throwing Brunswick.
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BALL "A"
WEIGHTS - 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12
RG RATING - 2.54 / 2.55 / 2.56 / 2.60 / 2.67
RG DIFFERENTIAL - .049 / .050 / .054 / .055 / .040
BALL "B"
WEIGHTS - 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12
RG RATING - 2.466 / 2.477 / 2.494 / 2.569 / 2.612
RG DIFFERENTIAL - 0.054 / 0.054 / 0.054 / 0.043 / 0.043
If you're going strictly off core performance for lighter weight balls, here are 2 examples of Ball "A" vs Ball "B". Any observations?
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They are all different!!!!!????? Did I win????
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So does only core numbers matter and the shape of the core has zero effect on how the ball rolls?
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If you were to take two undrilled balls with identical covers and core numbers, it wouldn't matter the shape.
Coverstock is king, always will be.
Also, after drilled numbers are more important than what's advertised. With the patented Radical Finger Scoop core, you can really change the shape of a reaction just by a different layout.
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If you were to take two undrilled balls with identical covers and core numbers, it wouldn't matter the shape.
Coverstock is king, always will be.
Also, after drilled numbers are more important than what's advertised. With the patented Radical Finger Scoop core, you can really change the shape of a reaction just by a different layout.
but you said cover was king and always will be. Then core numbers matter post drilling. I see that Radical has scoop tech that allows for more drilling options. Does this mean that the Brunswick and DV8 cores are inferior to those of Radical? Fill in the blanks for me please.
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
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Not sure why I am being quoted.I was answering the post.The guy is asking about switching brands and that's what my post is about.This is why I hardly ever post.Someone always takes things wrong or gets pissy stating the facts.I have seen your many posts about why you throw lighter balls.I understand fully why you throw Motiv.I have had four back surgeries myself.I feel your pain.I have dropped weight myself to 14 and it has only helped me.I still carry 220 average.So do not think my post was toward any thing you said because I mentioned a Motiv ball.Maybe I am the one taking your post wrong.Anyways continue to throw what you can score best with.For me its Brunswick and I do like what Radical is doing not the same ole recycling the same ole core crap.
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I was going to provide my opinion for a Brunswick/DV8/Radical arsenal, but then I noticed the OP asked foe the same for Motiv, while he also asked for additional recommendations for his Storm/Roto arsenal. All this based on very limited personal information provided by the poster.
All the recommendations stated are great, but no one can really know if they are right for Storm/roto22. We don't know all his personal specs, how and where he bowls.
I admit, I got the feeling he is on a fishing expedition.....is he really wanting to switch brands, if so then why ask for additions to his Storm/Roto arsenal. Regardless, I think he needs to sit down with his PSO and map out a ball plan, based on more and better personal specs, and how and where he bowls if he is really serious about establishing a arsenal that's right for himelf.
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I agree that coverstocks are most important. No argument from me there.
However in looking at cores, if the cores are not important, then why do companies put different cores in different coverstocks on their 14-15-16 lb balls? Why don't they have just one core and put all of their different coverstocks on the one single core in their heavier weight balls? ... That is what they do on 12 & 13 lb balls is one core in all coverstocks, so why don't they do it on all weights if the core doesn't matter?
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Brick,
Part of the reason for the different core is that in order to make the ball heavier (14-16) it probably needs a larger core. (Core shapes alone can be misleading because the density, and where the dense material is located affects how the core performs.)
In the 12 and 13 weight balls the core must be smaller, or less dense, or both in order to change weight enough. I hope I'm not off on this. I'm just thinking out loud, so to speak...
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BALL "A"
WEIGHTS - 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12
RG RATING - 2.54 / 2.55 / 2.56 / 2.60 / 2.67
RG DIFFERENTIAL - .049 / .050 / .054 / .055 / .040
BALL "B"
WEIGHTS - 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12
RG RATING - 2.466 / 2.477 / 2.494 / 2.569 / 2.612
RG DIFFERENTIAL - 0.054 / 0.054 / 0.054 / 0.043 / 0.043
If you're going strictly off core performance for lighter weight balls, here are 2 examples of Ball "A" vs Ball "B". Any observations?
Based on nos. that work best for me ......
If I could move up to 13# like I did 6-7 months ago before more back surgery was required, ball "A" would be a great fit for me.
If I have to remain at 12# and not allowed to move up in weights anymore, then ball "B" would have a slight edge over Ball "A".
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Is core shape more important to you or is the actual core numbers?
We could make every shape in a lighter weight ball, but the reason we don't is because the dynamic integrity of that shape gets compromised as you make everything lighter. The reason we use a more traditional core in light weight balls is to get as close to the RG Diff as possible. RG's will change, almost always a considerable difference between 14# and 12#, but we can manage how much a ball will flare.
A few competitors balls in 12# have almost HALF the differential as their 14# counterpart, even more so on their 15#. Might be the "same" shape, but definitely not the same.
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
so you leave Brunswick and DV8's cores out of the core comparison and now Radicals covers out of this coverstock talk.
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I agree that coverstocks are most important. No argument from me there.
However in looking at cores, if the cores are not important, then why do companies put different cores in different coverstocks on their 14-15-16 lb balls? Why don't they have just one core and put all of their different coverstocks on the one single core in their heavier weight balls? ... That is what they do on 12 & 13 lb balls is one core in all coverstocks, so why don't they do it on all weights if the core doesn't matter?
Filler changed the way ball companies could use and design bowling balls. Because of filler they can use the same weight core in 14, 15, and 16 pound bowling balls. Saves money on core cost. Lighter weights going below 14 would appear to require an even lighter core then those of the higher weights. Which equals higher cost. As bowling has advanced along with the ideas behind it and the understanding of bowling equipment I believe they realized that they can go with a more generic core and let the cover still be the difference. Too much change to the original core would probably result in something all together different then desired.
Morich use to keep the same core specs on all ball weights and advertised that.....so if the ball was 13 or 16 the ball had the same RG, DIFF and IntDiff. Cost more to do and the end results obviously did not justify the means. They also ran the idea for years that asymmetric cores were the only core needed for todays oils for a while before magic changed things and then symmetric cores were needed too. Trends of selling product vs the tructh
You will see it on here from time to time of bowlers complaining that they throw 14lbs and its specs are different from the 15lb and that they cant use a core with the specs the 14lb ball has. (example of a real complaint on here in reference to Storm and a ball 14lbs rg of 2.55 vs 15lbs 2.53)
If it matters that much in your mind then nothing will likely change that, why not contact some of the manufactures and ask them how they test the lighter weight bowling balls with generic cores and how they compare to the heavier weights? iT cant hurt to ask if it matters to you?
(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bowlingballexchange.com%2Fballreviewpics%2Fmorichlevrgresponse1.jpg&hash=2e846ee46faff0f8a6172fbf225bd8b5c93327e1)
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Is core shape more important to you or is the actual core numbers?
We could make every shape in a lighter weight ball, but the reason we don't is because the dynamic integrity of that shape gets compromised as you make everything lighter. The reason we use a more traditional core in light weight balls is to get as close to the RG Diff as possible. RG's will change, almost always a considerable difference between 14# and 12#, but we can manage how much a ball will flare.
A few competitors balls in 12# have almost HALF the differential as their 14# counterpart, even more so on their 15#. Might be the "same" shape, but definitely not the same.
Nick, that core in lighter weight balls isn't going to give the ball the same shape and looks on the lane as the different high performance core does in the heavier balls is it? I don't know the answer, just asking here as I am trying to kearn something and would love to go back to Brunswick again.
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
so you leave Brunswick and DV8's cores out of the core comparison and now Radicals covers out of this coverstock talk.
According to Throbot and every magazine review, Guru and Guru Master hook more than anything on the market. Didn't want to sound like a broken record bringing up that accolade.
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Is core shape more important to you or is the actual core numbers?
Core shape and nos are important to me. If I like the looks of a ball on how the heavier weight balls look-perform when others throw them, then I want the same looks on the lighter ball with that same coverstock.
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Is core shape more important to you or is the actual core numbers?
We could make every shape in a lighter weight ball, but the reason we don't is because the dynamic integrity of that shape gets compromised as you make everything lighter. The reason we use a more traditional core in light weight balls is to get as close to the RG Diff as possible. RG's will change, almost always a considerable difference between 14# and 12#, but we can manage how much a ball will flare.
A few competitors balls in 12# have almost HALF the differential as their 14# counterpart, even more so on their 15#. Might be the "same" shape, but definitely not the same.
Nick, that core in lighter weight balls isn't going to give the ball the same shape and looks on the lane as the different high performance core does in the heavier balls is it? I don't know the answer, just asking here as I am trying to kearn something and would love to go back to Brunswick again.
I'd love for you to come back to Brunswick. You were a big fan and great forum contributor for a long while. Maybe I could even do a Throbot test 12# vs 14#? Might be worth looking into.
Bottom line, the R&D has shown the generic core with stable and time tested performance is a much better option for 12-13lb.
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
so you leave Brunswick and DV8's cores out of the core comparison and now Radicals covers out of this coverstock talk.
According to Throbot and every magazine review, Guru and Guru Master hook more than anything on the market. Didn't want to sound like a broken record bringing up that accolade.
how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering.
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Brick,
Part of the reason for the different core is that in order to make the ball heavier (14-16) it probably needs a larger core. (Core shapes alone can be misleading because the density, and where the dense material is located affects how the core performs.)
In the 12 and 13 weight balls the core must be smaller, or less dense, or both in order to change weight enough. I hope I'm not off on this. I'm just thinking out loud, so to speak...
Lane, I both understand and agree with you on the core densities. Motiv makes their cores a bit less dense in their light weight balls, but with the same size and shape core as their heavier weights, the lighter balls give the same looks and shape "as close as possible" as the heavier balls. On some of their balls, the rg's and differentials are real close from 12# thru 16" balls and those balls with those higher differentials work really well for me. However on some (but not all) of their more recent balls, the differentials are too low to work for me. The higher rg's in light weight balls don't bother me much as I can over come some of that with pin placement and overstock adjustment, but the low differentials do bother me as they flat out don't do well for me on the conditions I bowl on, no matter how the ablls are drilled.
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Brick,
Going back to the Ball "A" vs Ball "B" and your current situation throwing 12lb, you have chosen the Nirvana.
Welcome back :)
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
so you leave Brunswick and DV8's cores out of the core comparison and now Radicals covers out of this coverstock talk.
According to Throbot and every magazine review, Guru and Guru Master hook more than anything on the market. Didn't want to sound like a broken record bringing up that accolade.
how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering.
Probably about as good as you did. Hopefully that isn't a reason to not go bowling.
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Brick,
Going back to the Ball "A" vs Ball "B" and your current situation throwing 12lb, you have chosen the Nirvana.
Welcome back :)
LOL ... I was starting to make another post and hit the wrong key and messed it up. What I was trying to post is say in the case of the Nirvana and it's shape and looks on the lane it gives the 14-15-16 lb ball throwers, if I were to buy that ball becasue I liked what I saw, I would want the same shape and looks. My question is how can that be possible with a different shape core?
Or one more example, say a ball has a core that helps the ball be a skid-flip ball, how is a different shape core going to give the same shape and looks on the lane? (note- skid-flip isn't for me, just asking the question here in talking about shape and looks)
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Yes cover is king and Brunswick and DV8 have the most advanced coverstock in Composite Technology.
As an intelligent guy I inferred that you would realize they were not equal in importance, merely making a list and giving an example since cores were brought up in the discussion.
so you leave Brunswick and DV8's cores out of the core comparison and now Radicals covers out of this coverstock talk.
According to Throbot and every magazine review, Guru and Guru Master hook more than anything on the market. Didn't want to sound like a broken record bringing up that accolade.
how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering.
Probably about as good as you did. Hopefully that isn't a reason to not go bowling.
is that the best you have?
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
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The coverstock is still the same across the board, and with the 12# RG DIFF at .043 vs 15# RG DIFF at .054, you're going to be in the same ballpark. Coverstock will still be 75-80% of total ball reaction. So typically, when a ball is inherently "skid-flippy", they are referring to the coverstock being clean in the front with a quick response to friction. Covers will be the major reason for shape, cores will always help assist that motion.
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
Plenty of great discussion here, minus your input. Might be one of the better conversations on ballreviews this year!
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
Thrown several. Only loved one. Gt-1. The venom line is probably one of the best lines in its price point from what I've seen.
Just my opinion
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
Plenty of great discussion here, minus your input. Might be one of the better conversations on ballreviews this year!
you should read around. There's been plenty of good topics on the board.
P.S.-you owe AMF an apology as the person posting with them in his name is not a staffer. But I see it's OK for you to take shots at other companies.
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The coverstock is still the same across the board, and with the 12# RG DIFF at .043 vs 15# RG DIFF at .054, you're going to be in the same ballpark. Coverstock will still be 75-80% of total ball reaction. So typically, when a ball is inherently "skid-flippy", they are referring to the coverstock being clean in the front with a quick response to friction. Covers will be the major reason for shape, cores will always help assist that motion.
OK ... I am supposed tp be released to bowl again Oct 16th. I am going to start with two 12# balls I bought in 2013 after my first back surgery ... Motiv Primal Scream and Motiv Thrash Frenzy. If my back doesn't bother me, I will probably buy 2 new balls, one for medium and medium-heavy oil and one for medium and medium-lite oil. If all goes well, I will be contacting you about the Motiv balls, their drillings and their nos that work really great for me and see what you can do to match me up with the same in Brunswick and then decide from there. To give you an idea ahead of time, the Rage and Thrash Frenzy are the two best with the Primal Scream good also, but I like the Rage over the Scream. I would want something the same in Brunswick.
I've been here too long tonight, so going to go watch TV for awhile.
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Have a good rest of your night, talk to you soon.
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I guess switching to Made In Mexico bowling balls (Brunswick/DV8) rather than Made In USA bowling balls (essentially everybody else) appeals to you.
this gets old! nothing like beating a dead horse. it is what it is
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
I didn't bait anyone. I am really considering brunswick. But this whole thread isny even about that anymore. It's people arguing over covers rocks and cores.
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
I didn't bait anyone. I am really considering brunswick. But this whole thread isny even about that anymore. It's people arguing over covers rocks and cores.
the arrogance that Brunswick exudes is appalling. That's what really gets me with this thread. They do no have factual evidence that anything they produce is truly better than anyone else. Yet, Nick said their covers and cores are better than anyone elses. When I say better, I don't mean hook more either. Cause MoRich equipment hooked. But........
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Wow tkk bitter much? What part of any marketing has anyone not said their new stuff is better then previous or the "best in the business, or world, or ever". Best warranty, best core, best covers, best shoes.
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Wow tkk bitter much? What part of any marketing has anyone not said their new stuff is better then previous or the "best in the business, or world, or ever". Best warranty, best core, best covers, best shoes.
he's not marketing. He jut flat out said his stuff is better due to finger scoop tech, which is why I questioned the other cores. And then their coverstock technology is magically better without proof of anything. So you can say bitter, but I'm going with being a realist.
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So you mean BrunsNick? Vs Brunswick? Referring to the earlier post
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No possibility of appeasing you tkkshop, especially when all you want to do is troll Brunswick any chance you get.
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No possibility of appeasing you tkkshop, especially when all you want to do is troll Brunswick any chance you get.
+1 .... Gotta agree with Nick here ...
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As good as anything you have contributed so far.
it looks as if the OP baited you guys. He said in another thread that he is picking up 2 Motiv balls on Friday. I'm sure he appreciates your feedback though.
I didn't bait anyone. I am really considering brunswick. But this whole thread isny even about that anymore. It's people arguing over covers rocks and cores.
the arrogance that Brunswick exudes is appalling. That's what really gets me with this thread. They do no have factual evidence that anything they produce is truly better than anyone else. Yet, Nick said their covers and cores are better than anyone elses. When I say better, I don't mean hook more either. Cause MoRich equipment hooked. But........
Have a Snickers, man.
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Brunsnick is a marketing guy do you expect him to say his product is junk. I'm sure he really believes that overall Brunswick makes the best covers and cores. To expect anything less is unrealistic.
I've generally found him to be a stand up guy and might even admit that there is a motion they lack or a particular ball isn't quite what they have hoped but to expect a marketing/sales guy not to believe his product is superior to another is just foolishness.
I've thrown some of all the major brands except Motiv. The Mastermind series is golden in my opinion. The lt-48 and souls are good balls for the money and I would personally use anything in the Melee line as a anchor (I know some people who do like them).
We each have our opinion none of the manufactures are going to admit to testing their stuff against others and what good motion is subjective to say the least. You don't have to buy it, you don't have to recommend it, but bashing it just because you don't like the product/business choices is useless.
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Where did I bash? I asked Nick questions and called him arrogant. But where did I say their product was terrible or anything similar to?
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So you mean BrunsNick? Vs Brunswick? Referring to the earlier post
yes. Autocorrect. Thanks
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So you mean BrunsNick? Vs Brunswick? Referring to the earlier post
yes. Autocorrect. Thanks
Makes sense, I follow you now
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I haven't seen a lot of love for the two Fortera balls on here. They are on clearance at Buddies and they seemed like they would be pretty good pieces, though I did not throw one myself to confirm. Were the Masterminds and Melees that much better or were the Exile and Intrigue too condition-specific/limited for anyone to recommend?
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This might not be worth mentioning, but I haven't really thrown much Big B the last 10 years. I actually had a c system(maxxed out) and a meanstreak brawler and loaded revolver and really liked those pieces.
Then I started catching some crap for throwing Big B for the not made in USA reason, so I fell to pressure and stopped using them, but bowled really well including some honor scores.
Fast forward to now, I just got a Rhino Pro and LT-48 and a Mastermind Scholar and some Radical, Guru Mighty and Yeti Uncaged.
Ended up using the Rhino and LT all night and shot 707 and absolutely love both balls!! Very impressed and a lot of what I used to remember about Big B great ball motion! Like what I see so far.
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I haven't seen a lot of love for the two Fortera balls on here. They are on clearance at Buddies and they seemed like they would be pretty good pieces, though I did not throw one myself to confirm. Were the Masterminds and Melees that much better or were the Exile and Intrigue too condition-specific/limited for anyone to recommend?
The Mastermind line is just better. I purchased the Exile since it was la pearl and there was not a pearl ball in the mastermind line at the time. Ok ball but I preferred the polished Intillect over the Exile.
The Mastermind has been discontinued. For me it is the best oiler since the Virtual Gravity; same motion, just stronger. You should pick one up for 99 bucks.
Until the IQ Tour fusion came out, I was throwing mostly Storm. I think Storm's ride on the wave is about to end and that Brunswick will continue to pick up if they continue with the quality they produced in the Mastermind line.
Brunswick also has great customer service.
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I agree with CCrider the Mastermind series is just that good. I haven't thrown any of the exile series but from what I have heard from friends is the original exile had over under issues and was either the best ball you threw or the worst and you never knew which it was going to be. The Intrigue was better but just not up to what the masterminds are.
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I noticed TKKSHOP asked how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering. Well seeing how Parker Bohn is Fifth on the money list.Sean Rash and Walter Ray in the top ten.And two of those are guys over 50.Seems to be they are doing fine with Brunswick.Does not really look like any company is dominating.Don't understand why the hate toward Brunswick.Just got the Einstein in yesterday and can't wait to put some holes in it.Kinda nice to see some activity in the Brunswick posts.By the way if we all bought made in usa we would all be walking around naked.What a scary thought.
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I noticed TKKSHOP asked how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering. Well seeing how Parker Bohn is Fifth on the money list.Sean Rash and Walter Ray in the top ten.And two of those are guys over 50.Seems to be they are doing fine with Brunswick.Does not really look like any company is dominating.Don't understand why the hate toward Brunswick.Just got the Einstein in yesterday and can't wait to put some holes in it.Kinda nice to see some activity in the Brunswick posts.By the way if we all bought made in usa we would all be walking around naked.What a scary thought.
I could eb wrong, but I don't think there is that much hate for Brunswick... I think that is just a small handful of people that attempt to make it look that way at times. Although I am not currently throwing Brunswick, I still like Brunswick.
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I noticed TKKSHOP asked how'd these balls do on tour? Just wondering. Well seeing how Parker Bohn is Fifth on the money list.Sean Rash and Walter Ray in the top ten.And two of those are guys over 50.Seems to be they are doing fine with Brunswick.Does not really look like any company is dominating.Don't understand why the hate toward Brunswick.Just got the Einstein in yesterday and can't wait to put some holes in it.Kinda nice to see some activity in the Brunswick posts.By the way if we all bought made in usa we would all be walking around naked.What a scary thought.
the balls in question were/are the guru balls Nick mentioned. Thanks.
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Anyone else have anything to add? Bowled on league tonight, couldnt get anything going (granted this was mainly my issues and not equipment) but I'm sick of not doing well and I have an itch I need to scratch and I'm set on trying anot her company and committing to it.
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Start with the Vandal or Einstein...enjoy the new composite technology! Both are versatile stronger balls that are very good!
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I just purchased the Johnny Petraglia LT 48 Vintage and my first night throwing it right out of the box was a 665 series on a Kegel Fire and Ice oil pattern. I know others who have said they found the bowl to roll well whether you have high rev to a full roller like me. I found that it rolled really smooth with a very nice arc into the pocket. This will be a great addition for me for tournaments for sure
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to the OP, I don't have any current Brunswick balls so can not help you there I do have 1 piece of advice.
your title says "thinking of switching companies" unless you are paid to represent a single company and are contractually obligated to use only their equipment you shouldn't just feel obligated to use one manufacturer.
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Start with the Vandal or Einstein...enjoy the new composite technology! Both are versatile stronger balls that are very good!
My next ball will be Brunswick or DV8, so how do the Vandal & Einstein compare? ... and ... on what conditions do each work best?
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Brickguy221, The Einstein will handle more oil and start up a little sooner than the Vandal. Both will have improved continuation compared to the previous releases because of the composite coverstock technology which will last longer and won't absorb the oil as quickly. The Einstein is a good first ball out of the bag, and the Vandal would be good for when you need something cleaner through the fronts when the lanes break down. Also, the surface can easily be adjusted on both to obtain the desired reaction.
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Brickguy221, The Einstein will handle more oil and start up a little sooner than the Vandal. Both will have improved continuation compared to the previous releases because of the composite coverstock technology which will last longer and won't absorb the oil as quickly. The Einstein is a good first ball out of the bag, and the Vandal would be good for when you need something cleaner through the fronts when the lanes break down. Also, the surface can easily be adjusted on both to obtain the desired reaction.
Being a Senior bowling in senior leagues on THS and fresh oil to start, then the Einstein to start and then the Vandal as the lanes start changing like for example mid or late second game?
.... and if starting on used lane, the Vandal to start?
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OK, I am going to ask the stupid question here...
Why do you only stay with one company?
I have success with multiple balls from different companies. I may like Storms light oil line, Hammer's mid oil line, and Brunswick's heavy oil line for example.
I don't see one advantage with sticking with one company.
I will see posts that say I wish company X would come out with a ball that fits between A & B. When company Y makes it. So buy company Y. Unless you are under contract, you don't get discounts for loyalty.
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OK, I am going to ask the stupid question here...
Why do you only stay with one company?
I have success with multiple balls from different companies. I may like Storms light oil line, Hammer's mid oil line, and Brunswick's heavy oil line for example.
I don't see one advantage with sticking with one company.
I will see posts that say I wish company X would come out with a ball that fits between A & B. When company Y makes it. So buy company Y. Unless you are under contract, you don't get discounts for loyalty.
I throw balls that have the specs that I need. Two years ago, I switched to Motiv because their balls had the rg's and differentials that fit my style plus they had the same but less dense cores in their light weight balls as heavier balls. Today, with an exception or two, their balls all have differentials too low for me and Brunswick meets what I need, thus my plans to switch to Brunswick.
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Brickguy221, The Einstein will handle more oil and start up a little sooner than the Vandal. Both will have improved continuation compared to the previous releases because of the composite coverstock technology which will last longer and won't absorb the oil as quickly. The Einstein is a good first ball out of the bag, and the Vandal would be good for when you need something cleaner through the fronts when the lanes break down. Also, the surface can easily be adjusted on both to obtain the desired reaction.
Ok. What about the new Nirvana?
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Brickguy221, The Einstein will handle more oil and start up a little sooner than the Vandal. Both will have improved continuation compared to the previous releases because of the composite coverstock technology which will last longer and won't absorb the oil as quickly. The Einstein is a good first ball out of the bag, and the Vandal would be good for when you need something cleaner through the fronts when the lanes break down. Also, the surface can easily be adjusted on both to obtain the desired reaction.
Ok. What about the new Nirvana?
Nirvana ... for me, I don't see that much oil often enough to get it. It appears the Einstein and Vandal may hopefully cover most of my needs. I still have some time yet before settling on 2 new balls.
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Ive always been a fan of sticking with one company because its easier to adjust within the line. Ive had success with alot of different companies but when it all comes down to it, 900global/AMF300 have really been good. Just ordered my new arsenal yesterday from AMF and cant wait for tournament saason to come about. Cant go wrong with whatever you choose as long as your confident with what you are throwing.