Post by: ainokea808 on April 09, 2010, 09:26:54 PM
blast zone (2x)
copperhead
python
siege
strike zone
twisted fury
wild thing
Post by: charlest on April 10, 2010, 05:55:31 AM
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: MattC7 on April 10, 2010, 06:11:56 AM
Ebonite contains
--Ebonite, Track, C300 and Hammer
Storm
--Storm and roto..
that's alot more choice
Post by: on April 10, 2010, 01:31:35 PM
Too much of a good thing? Is that possible?
You must enjoy root canals...
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: FastTracker33 on April 10, 2010, 02:09:40 PM
quote:
What is the point of this thread?
--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club
I really don't know lol.
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- Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Post by: LotsaBalls on April 10, 2010, 02:09:49 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 10, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
Post by: Juggernaut on April 10, 2010, 04:06:12 PM
--------------------
Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: The badge on April 10, 2010, 05:16:39 PM
Post by: mj79 on April 10, 2010, 05:49:32 PM
quote:
Buy American Not from Mexico
how about you shut up..??
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on April 10, 2010, 07:38:26 PM
quote:
Better to pay mexicans minimum wage or less in the United States to do this instead? I'd rather have more executive jobs in the US and leave them the manual labor. It's not like these people in Mexico are the ones designing these balls.
probably not.. BUT It doesnt matter , ANY way you look at it, mexico and china do not make or produce the quality that america does.. plain and simple... I buy Brunswick cuz it works for me, But yea I wish it was in america.. Im switching to storm or ebonite anyways soon so i couldnt care less
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 10, 2010, 08:05:56 PM
To each his own.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
Post by: BrunsBob on April 11, 2010, 10:30:52 AM
quote:quote:
Better to pay mexicans minimum wage or less in the United States to do this instead? I'd rather have more executive jobs in the US and leave them the manual labor. It's not like these people in Mexico are the ones designing these balls.
probably not.. BUT It doesnt matter , ANY way you look at it, mexico and china do not make or produce the quality that america does.. plain and simple... I buy Brunswick cuz it works for me, But yea I wish it was in america.. Im switching to storm or ebonite anyways soon so i couldnt care less
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Just so you are aware, our scrap and 2nds numbers are well below any number we ever had in Muskegon, AND, our warranty rate per ball is still the lowest in the business amongst the 4 major ball makers. So, less warranties, less scrap in the factory, and fewer factory 2nds, yep, they're getting it done down there. By the way, they're good people down there also.
So please don't bail on us, we like having ya. Or, come back soon.
RoB LaW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 02:10:06 PM
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 02:28:18 PM
My averages have actually increased after making the switch.
Anything else you'd like to chime in with stormbowler83?
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Post by: Mike Austin on April 11, 2010, 03:00:26 PM
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 03:43:29 PM
Great answer to quit bowling, then the people employed at the local lanes will be out of jobs. Please think before you type.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Edited on 4/11/2010 3:45 PM
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 04:03:57 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: sdbowler on April 11, 2010, 04:11:48 PM
Yeah it sucks Brunswick moved. It sucks Americans lost jobs. Now that was a few years ago as well. I heard rumors a few years ago that another major company was looking at land close to where the Brunswick plant is. IF this is true and IF it does happen I wonder how many people will drop that family of equipment like they did Brunswick.
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Kyle
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 04:26:46 PM
There are many companies the are manufacturing bowling balls in the U.S.A. Brunswick chose to cease manufacturing at their Michigan plant which cost American workers their jobs. How many more jobs do you think Americans can stand to lose before the economy gets to a point it will be impossible to recover from?
All of the examples you provided are products in which we as Americans basically have no other option except to purchase foreign products, but and let me emphasize again bowling balls are NOT.
Why should you care? Let me explain it another way. See if you can follow along, when people lose good paying manufacturing jobs (VP''s, managers, engineers, technicians), then they don''t put their money in your bank, build that house that you build, buy that car you sell, go to that expensive hair salon where you work, etc..
Keep thinking about it maybe the light switch will come on Stormbowler83, but by the argument you have provided I seriously doubt it.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Edited on 4/11/2010 4:27 PM
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 04:31:53 PM
quote:
Let me explain it to you one more time real slow to see if you can comprehend it this time stormbowler83
There are many companies the are manufacturing bowling balls in the U.S.A. Brunswick chose to cease manufacturing at their Michigan plant which cost American workers their jobs. How many more jobs do you think Americans can stand to lose before the economy gets to a point it will be impossible to recover from?
All of the examples you provided are products in which we as Americans basically have no other option except to purchase foreign products, but and let me emphasize again bowling balls are NOT.
Why should you care? Let me explain it another way. See if you can follow along, when people lose good paying manufacturing jobs (VP''s, managers, engineers, technicians), then they don''t put their money in your bank, build that house that you build, buy that car you sell, go to that expensive hair salon where you work, etc..
Keep thinking about it maybe the light switch will come on Stormbowler83, but by the argument you have provided I seriously doubt it.
--------------------
26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Edited on 4/11/2010 4:27 PM
you hit the nail on the head , which I cant see how he doesnt understand.. When asked WHY dont we purchase EVERYTHING in America? Very simple, Not EVERYTHING is made here.. But the things that ARE made here should stay here..
Nobody said anything about what I said either.. What about Brunswick making more money off doing this by cheap labor , and not even giving the Americans who support their company a cut of the profits? Nor really caring about anything but the almighty dollar..
Anyone?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 04:33:15 PM
quote:
Just threw another 300 today with my Mexican-made Copperhead. Hummmm... didn''t seem to be much different than my American-made Brunswicks.
cool story bro... I have a 205 avg and I threw a 450 series with my mexican made DB yesterday.. .. whats your point.. .... ...
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Edited on 4/11/2010 4:34 PM
Post by: The badge on April 11, 2010, 04:57:43 PM
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 05:29:29 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: guffnuh on April 11, 2010, 05:32:07 PM
quote:quote:
Just threw another 300 today with my Mexican-made Copperhead. Hummmm... didn''t seem to be much different than my American-made Brunswicks.
cool story bro... I have a 205 avg and I threw a 450 series with my mexican made DB yesterday.. .. whats your point.. .... ...
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Edited on 4/11/2010 4:34 PM
--------------------
"Hey, what's that noise?"
"Oh, that's just my Invasion rolling out in my bag"
youtube.com/guffnuh
WATCH MY BOWLING VIDEOS!!!!!
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 05:33:25 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: charlest on April 11, 2010, 05:35:12 PM
quote:
your not to smart stormbowler.. The thing he and myself have been saying since the beginning is there ARE NO USA MADE SHOES , so that pretty much limits your options on buying something from the USA now doesnt it..?? There is NO CHOICE to buy american , if america doesnt make a bowling shoe now is there
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
You're talking situational ethics. Look it up.
It means you do the right thing when it's convenient, no more, no less.
Ethics are not situational. They are universal. The end NEVER justifies the means. NEVER.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 05:37:21 PM
quote:quote:
your not to smart stormbowler.. The thing he and myself have been saying since the beginning is there ARE NO USA MADE SHOES , so that pretty much limits your options on buying something from the USA now doesnt it..?? There is NO CHOICE to buy american , if america doesnt make a bowling shoe now is there
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
You're talking situational ethics. Look it up.
It means you do the right thing when it's convenient, no more, no less.
Ethics are not situational. They are universal. The end NEVER justifies the means. NEVER.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
ok smart guy.. I WANT to bowl, I want to buy american, BUT no American companies make bowling shoes? How in your twisted mind is that Hypocritical?? Its called lack of options.. look it up
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 05:40:17 PM
quote:
Also, how come it's quite okay for union jobs (Big B workers in Muskegon were making on average $28/hr) and move them to plants in KY or UT where they make $10/hr. As long as it's here in the States that makes it alright? Get lost, hypocrites!
LOL now maybe you could do some simple math and figure out how much Brunswick is TRULY making NOW!!! lol they were doing just fine paying ppl 28 bucks an hr, now its down to 10?? Wow , i think they just tripled their profits.. That work out for you smart guy?
although i highly doubt laborers were paid 28/ hr to pour a resin into a mold....
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 05:41:41 PM
As far as you pointing out my comment concerning not having a choice in the other circumstances you brought up, please do enlighten us what other choices we do have concerning shoes and bags. Quitting bowling which you mentioned is an option but an asinine suggestion considering American products can not be purchased.
As far as intelligence goes your posts speak volumes.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 05:47:13 PM
quote:
We are in the brunswick forum and that is the topic at hand, granted Dexter was and is no better. I have never argued the point concerning Dexter, you are the one who brought it up.
As far as you pointing out my comment concerning not having a choice in the other circumstances you brought up, please do enlighten us what other choices we do have concerning shoes and bags. Quitting bowling which you mentioned is an option but an asinine suggestion considering American products can not be purchased.
As far as intelligence goes your posts speak volumes.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
havent you learned?? Storm is always right.. He calls you a hypocrite for buying non american made shoes and bags, when there is no other options, then calls you a hypocrite for not bowling anymore for hurting the american economy .. It must be tough for him to be so perfect and ( in his mind ) have all the right answers
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 05:48:36 PM
quote:
What this thrownxs child seems to forget is Brunswick SAVED another hundred jobs by moving to Mexico. Keep your rabble rousing to the Lane #1 threads, sawboy. We really don't need your kind of trouble over here. Just ignore this guy and anybody else who makes comments and jokes about Mexico, boys. Like it was so ably pointed out, if was such a big deal to thrownxs, he would'nt be using Dexter shoes since they outsourced to foreign lands. Small minds can stir up big sh$t if we allow them to. Just ignore him.
Hey it's good to see you CRD,LB4M,UG2BK as usual you're throwing out the lane 1 and union rubbish arguments like always. I knew it would only be a matter of time before you lost your temper and went back to your old ways. Way to blow your cover, you are so predictable. LOL
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 05:54:44 PM
quote:
Also, how come it's quite okay for union jobs (Big B workers in Muskegon were making on average $28/hr) and move them to plants in KY or UT where they make $10/hr. As long as it's here in the States that makes it alright? Get lost, hypocrites!
Ah so what you are saying CRD is that moving the jobs to Mexico was a better choice for the American economy than moving them to a state which might pay lower wages but still employs American workers?
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 06:01:06 PM
quote:
For someone who knows nothing (as some of your older posts clearly indicate), you should not be trying to match wits with me. I'm out of your league, junior.quote:quote:
We are in the brunswick forum and that is the topic at hand, granted Dexter was and is no better. I have never argued the point concerning Dexter, you are the one who brought it up.
As far as you pointing out my comment concerning not having a choice in the other circumstances you brought up, please do enlighten us what other choices we do have concerning shoes and bags. Quitting bowling which you mentioned is an option but an asinine suggestion considering American products can not be purchased.
As far as intelligence goes your posts speak volumes.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
havent you learned?? Storm is always right.. He calls you a hypocrite for buying non american made shoes and bags, when there is no other options, then calls you a hypocrite for not bowling anymore for hurting the american economy .. It must be tough for him to be so perfect and ( in his mind ) have all the right answers
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club
LMAO, I could not have thrown a bowling ball in my life and still have a debate in this conversation.. Match wits with you? Lol yea I dont think I could dumb myself down that much, junior .. And your right , Im not on your level, your to full of BS and ignorance .. another know it all trying to be a tough guy on a bowling forum of all things lolol
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Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: SleepOnIce on April 11, 2010, 06:01:46 PM
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BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 06:04:27 PM
quote:
I must have CRD on ignore, but anyway. Nobody here has said that they AGREE with Brunswick's choice to move to Mexico. I certainly do not, but that's not the argument either CRD or myself are making. My argument, and I can see his as well, is this YOU, are complaining about Brunswick's move to Mexico as an excuse for not using their products. That's perfectly fine until you reveal that you use other bowling products that were previously made in America, but have since been outsourced to other countries such as China.
You're a hypocrite for crying about Brunswick's move to Mexico and how it hurt the economy, but you refuse to acknowledge that you use Dexter or Global shoes, which were previously made in America but have since be sent to China for production. You have no argument and you know it. Now, I'm done with this.quote:quote:
Also, how come it's quite okay for union jobs (Big B workers in Muskegon were making on average $28/hr) and move them to plants in KY or UT where they make $10/hr. As long as it's here in the States that makes it alright? Get lost, hypocrites!
Ah so what you are saying CRD is that moving the jobs to Mexico was a better choice for the American economy than moving them to a state which might pay lower wages but still employs American workers?
--------------------
26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
--------------------
The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club
WOW , you are really showing your mode of transportation is the short bus.. How many times do we have to repeat the same thing? WHERE are the options to buy american made moron?
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: thrownxs on April 11, 2010, 06:08:18 PM
For your info I''m still using a pairs of Made in America Linds, what I will do when these wear out is yet to be seen. But hopefully that is years down the road, especially considering the shape they are in.
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26 Year old righty
220 average on THS
190 on PBA experience
Edited on 4/11/2010 6:10 PM
Post by: mj79 on April 11, 2010, 06:13:39 PM
quote:
TCP is the best troll on this site. Everybody continues to give him attention, no matter what screen name/terrible argument he is using at the time. It''s almost an art.
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
trolls need attn too, his life is boring and he has no friends.. Let him feel special on here.. It all hes got
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Edited on 4/11/2010 6:14 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 11, 2010, 06:50:44 PM
Shortly there after they pull out of sponsoring on the PBA, stop making bowling pins, lanes, equipment ect. Then you have more lost jobs then to begin with.
Many companies in the USA have pulled some plants and moved them to other countries. It is the cost of doing business. Not all USA car manufactures are built in the USA anymore. Many are outsources to plants built in Canada and Mexico. So just because you bought from an American company doesn''t mean you bought an American car. At least Brunswick still employees people in the USA because they are still in business.
So buy American every chance you get. Doesn''t mean it is a better product, doesn''t mean you saved someones job. You can''t say that about bowling balls, and not apply it to everything else.
Also understand bowling ball sales is not the huge industry it use to be, especially in the USA. More sales are made to other countries then here.
Also, how many jobs were lost at the plant in Michigan?
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don''t "
Edited on 4/11/2010 6:51 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 11, 2010, 08:45:02 PM
That is business. The good and the bad. Doesn't change anything for me.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
Post by: MrPerfect on April 12, 2010, 10:32:44 AM
quote:quote:
100 were lost in Muskegon, MI. They also would have closed a facility in Chicago if they had not made the move. This is from ex and present Brunswick employees. I have to laugh at confused people like thrownxs (who must be the same guy as Brickguy221 and Steven as they are the only people who insist on calling me somebody I have no idea who they are talking about.) because in their minds, it would have been better to jettison 200 jobs instead of 100. I still am waiting for an answer how it is fine in some people''''s minds to take a job from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and the rest of the "Rust Belt" and give them to people in southern states who are willing to do it for half the wages. I have said all I need to say on this subject, I have and will always throw Brunswick as they match up to me and the shells last forever. Toodle-oooo.
So CRD/UG2BK is it fine in your mind that these jobs went to Mexico, instead of possibly moving to a "southern state" which would pay less money but still employ American workers? Or possibly work on the contract and see if concessions could have been made?
--------------------
Speak the Truth
Even though certain people can''''t handle it.
Quoted made by BR own ball Guru CRD
"Sorry, man. If you believe color will affect the hook of a ball, then it will because you THINK it will. It has NO bearing on how much a ball will hook. Pick any multicolor ball. Agent Orange for example since this is Lane #1 la-la land. You telling me if one has more black pigment in it compared to the one next to it with more orange, it''''s going to hook differently? Really? I mean, really? Get serious and stop clownin'''' around."
Didn''''t brunswick state that is why the wizard was stronger then the nemesis even though it was the same core and cover?
You do understand that the majority of those factory jobs are migrant or naturalized workers? So it''s okay if it''s basically illegals that are within our own borders, but if they use the same workers in "their own" country? As Charlest stated, you believe in situational ethics.
Edited on 4/12/2010 10:33 AM
Post by: Steven on April 12, 2010, 12:33:25 PM
quote:
Again, I have no idea who CRD is or who you are.
CRD/LM4M/UG2BK: Please, stop the charade. You've recently changed your identity more often than some posters change their underwear, so you're not fooling anyone with your empty denials.
The fact is that no matter how you frame it, Brunswick made a bunch of bad business decisions that almost caused their bowling division to go bust. They're clearly not near as well run as their major competitors who continue to manufacture their high end equipment in the US.
This doesn't mean that Brunswick doesn't currently make some good equipment. The C-System line is obviously very good. I had a chance to demo the Slingshot this last weekend, and I have to say it's very impressive for a low price offering. I can see higher rev bowlers who struggle with oil breakdown be able to stay with a slingshot all 3-4 games and maintain good carry.
Having said this, there are many bowlers who psychologically buy a company as well as a ball. For many of them, the Brunswick company makes this a non-starter. You can whine and cry about this until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the equation. Accept it for what it is and move on.
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 12, 2010, 04:00:05 PM
It is Americans fault to begin with. You make too much for jobs that don't require skill and demand all kinds of benefits and before too long a business is paying someone way too much for what they do.
Entitlement is not a part of the business world.
Business are not required to stay here and pay us to put made or assembled in the USA on a product.
In the end this economy and the demand for lower prices will continue to see more companies do the same. Health Care "reform" will also play a roll in that.
I'm not here to argue that other then to say when business cost goes up, consumer cost goes up. If I have to pay more to my employees or there benefits the next thing I will do is raise cost of the products to cover it.
The more we feel entitled to and the less we do to earn it, the worst we get.
--------------------
" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
Post by: OddBalls on April 12, 2010, 04:04:06 PM
quote:
The more we feel entitled to and the less we do to earn it, the worst we get.
Spot on..
--------------------
Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..
Post by: mj79 on April 12, 2010, 06:07:23 PM
--------------------
Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice
16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev
Work in progress
Post by: MARKER on April 25, 2010, 06:00:30 PM
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/2005/6/16/brunswick_to_move_bowling_ball_production.htm
Just noticed this thread. Here are a couple news stories with Brunswick management interviews before they made the move. Hope this sheds some light on things...
We currently have 16.5% unemployment in the Muskegon area. Unfortunately, the problem here is a big one. Muskegon had a really strong blue collar work force. Sealed Power and the paper mill were big employers. Now the local hospital is I believe the number one employer. In the last 20 years or so the manufacturing jobs have been disappearing.
Marker