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Author Topic: why Brunswick.... why  (Read 27596 times)

bighook69

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why Brunswick.... why
« on: June 16, 2005, 10:46:43 AM »
I really like the fact that bowling balls are made in the USA... but, Brunswick, who has a plant near me (Muskegon, Michigan) is moving a ball making plant to Mexico...

any reason  besides its cheaper behind the move?
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Stjosephkid

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #91 on: June 20, 2005, 08:56:25 PM »
Doug I hear ya and hammer has some pretty good stuff anyway.
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SprayNpray

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #92 on: June 20, 2005, 09:21:31 PM »
I posted on the Lane #1 site, now I'll add my opinion here:

To make this simple, I'll put it this way: Businesses that fail to adapt to ever-changing economic pressures will INEVITABLY become obsolete.  It might not be tomorrow, or a year from now, but eventually failure to adapt will cause a business to go under.

If Brunswick has the vision to be proactive and do something about the economic pressures that they (and all businesses) face, and can make changes that are more cost-efficient long-term for their business, then more power to them!  What is more American than the ability and freedom to maximize profit potential?  Besides, we don't know their situation and I'll bet there are a lot of well-educated, sharp people behind this decision.  I doubt very seriously if they didn't consider the uproar-from-Joe-Bowler angle, but that is a risk they are willing to take.

If you are worried about the loss of employment that may or may not be caused by such a move, what happens when the ever-decreasing margins caused by a multitude of factors catch up with them and they can't afford to sign the paychecks?  I submit that EVERYONE (other than the other manufacturers, of course) is better off if Brunswick stays in business and maintains market share and provides competition so that prices for us as consumers will stay down.

Maybe if they had some decent jobs in Mexico we wouldn't have the problem with illegal aliens we have in this country.  Instead, everyone wants to impose their ideals on the very people who fuel this economy and require that businesses maintain employment for people.  Well here's a newsflash, folks: having a job is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.  If you can't cut the mustard, get out of the way because business is all about survival of the fittest, not some mother-hen philosophy that we need to take all of the starving and needy under our wings and provide for them.  Furthermore, if you have to depend on pseudo-patriotism or some idealogical guilt trip to sell a product as opposed to making a better product, maybe you shouldn't be in business anyway.

I am so sick of how everyone wants to demonize big business for making business decisions that are healthy for their existence.  Unless you have faced the pressures of running a business over the long term as I have, you probably have no idea what it means to adapt and roll with the punches that you will face in today's business climate.

If you are going to make a decision regarding what product to use, make the decision based on how the product performs for you and whether it is within your budget, not on some idealogical guilt trip that has no base in reality whatsoever.

   
quote:
The thing that bothers me, is its a matter of principal.


Sounds like someone who has never walked the walk, as far as running a business is concerned.  YOu have to do what is ethical, but you can't let a "matter of principal" be your demise, either.  That is NOT to say a business person should sacrifice their integrity or ethics; it is the responsibility of the business first and foremost to make BUSINESS-healthy decisions.  While important, the well being of the employees is second to the well-being of the business itself.

I have so much more to say but I'll try to cut this down a bit.


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Lane Bed

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #93 on: June 20, 2005, 09:45:56 PM »
Hey SawFreak
I've had my last 2 jobs move to Mexico.

Walk in my shoes for a while and get your life upheaved a few times and maybe you will think differently.

Lost 12 years of pension time.

Both business' ended up failing there, big companies too.

Hope they rot there.

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a_ak57

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2005, 09:46:39 PM »
quote:
Thats dine adn good saw, but if the business decions(this one does not) has to ne healthy as in hires illgeals, that business can crash and burn for all I care.
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Brunswick...........'nuff said.

Walking E

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #95 on: June 20, 2005, 10:03:37 PM »
The problem that I think a lot of people have is the idea of maximizing profits.

Is Brunswick actually losing money in the bowling industry or are they not making enough of a profit to satisfy some arbitrary and/or unrealistic figure established by Brunswick's upper management?

While some business owners may feel that it's justified to maximize profits, it can also lead to unscrupulous business practices in ensuring that a business unit meets these goals. This is similar to what happened with Enron and some of the other companies out there that misled investors with their fictitious numbers. The business units simply weren't allowed to 'not meet their numbers', so they cooked the books to make it seem like they were meeting their goals. I'm not saying that Brunswick is doing this, but I think a business culture which hammers into the management and employees "MAXIMIZE PROFITS MAXIMIZE PROFITS MAXIMIZE PROFITS" can very easily lead to unethical business practices to ensure that they meet their goals.

Now in this case, we don't know if Brunswick's bowling division is losing money, breaking even or making a small profit - what we do know is that they are looking to save millions each year in operating costs. What we can also expect - excuse me if I'm cynical about this - is that the cost savings will NOT be passed on to consumers.

So if, in fact, Brunswick IS currently making money in their bowling division AND is moving the production to Mexico simply to MAXIMIZE profits while not providing any cost savings to the consumer, then I, for one, will think they're a bunch of unethical scumbags and will never purchase their products again, because I don't agree with that way of doing business. I doubt that we'll ever really know if this is the case, as I'm sure that Brunswick isn't going to open their books to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of skeptical bowlers like ourselves, for better or worse.
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SprayNpray

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #96 on: June 20, 2005, 10:13:49 PM »
quote:
Hey SawFreak
I've had my last 2 jobs move to Mexico.

Walk in my shoes for a while and get your life upheaved a few times and maybe you will think differently.

Lost 12 years of pension time.

Both business' ended up failing there, big companies too.

Hope they rot there.


Lane Bed, I am sorry about your personal situation.  That being said, my upcoming thought will probably sound callous to someone like you, BUT it needs to be said regardless:

If you want job security, make yourself irreplaceable.  By that I mean create wealth for the company you work for, not remove wealth (just show up to collect a paycheck).  *DISCLAIMER* In no way is this a personal attack on you, Lane Bed, or anyone else for that matter.

People are paid according to their ability to create wealth- whether directly or indirectly.  If you create wealth for your employer, you make yourself irreplaceable.  If someone else is willing and able to do the same job for half, I am sorry but you are replaceable.  The solution to this is to have a SKILL that you can SELL, and for job security purposes it should be one that creates wealth/profit/income for your employer OR yourself, should you choose to go that route.

This is why professional athletes are paid so much: they put butts in the seats and they SELL and create awareness of the "brand" of the team (jerseys, hats, sponsorships, etc.).  Without them, do the owners have much of a product to sell?  I doubt it.

 
quote:
Thats dine adn good saw, but if the business decions(this one does not) has to ne healthy as in hires illgeals, that business can crash and burn for all I care.


No one said anything about HIRING illegals, L1B.  I agree, no business should do that.  It is not a healthy business decision to break the law nor to reward people for breaking the law, last time I checked.
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Lane Bed

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2005, 10:47:05 PM »
SawFreak
Was a lead man on both jobs. Company profits rose between 2% to 3% each year. Not bad for a big manufacturing company. Never late on one order in 5 years. I would say that is a value to the company. However, wages are cheaper in Mexico and they figured they could make a better profit there. OOB in 3 years.

Another note: Mexician wages have dropped 2/3 to 1/2 since NAFTA. Not good for them either.

They get not one dime of my money and the sooner they go OOB the happier I will be.

Hasta la vista Brunswick!!!!

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SprayNpray

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #98 on: June 20, 2005, 10:50:42 PM »
quote:
What is more American than running a profitable business? We do not have any responsibility to our fellow Americans, to our community, or to anyone else other than ourselves. If we can make a profit by selling out our fellow Americans, then that is the way it is supposed to be. The American story is all about rugged individualism. Giving any thought to others is socialism, and we all know socialism is bad. If you can't cut it, can't make yourself irreplaceable, then Darwinism says that you've got to go...sorry, but that's the way of it. Shape up or ship out, pal...you're on your own.


Hm... laced with sarcasm.  I can pull that off too, I guess...

redbear, I couldn't have said it better myself!  Oh wait, I already did.  Sorry to break this to you, but "rugged individualism" IS what made this country what it is, and will continue to do so.

Also, selfishness does not necessarily go hand-in-hand with the American Dream; that is up to the person or business involved.  The great thing about this country is that there is INCENTIVE to exceed the norm (read: maximize profits).  I don't HAVE to work my A S S off so someone can sit at home and get an equal slice of the pie, as is the case in socialism.  That happens way too often anyway even in this country, and you'll have to excuse me for my "I-have-mine, you-get-yours" mentality, but it is because I have had to work my backside off to get "mine".  BTW I have been on the wrong side of that line, and didn't like it, so I DID something about it.  I never got anything I didn't work my sorry butt off to achieve.  Never had a handout, never a hand up.  Pure willpower and hard work.  Sorry, but I want to keep what I work so hard to earn, and not give it away to people who don't deserve it.

Darwinism has been my personal experience, from both sides.  It is reality.  And I will clarify, it is true that we don't have any responsibility to our fellow Americans.  To impose that responsibility would be, well, un-American.  However, unlike in other countries, we have the CHOICE as to whether we be charitable, selfish, or otherwise.  I can't fault Brunswick for making a decision such as the one they have made; I can only wish them well and hope that the people who are affected are able to find a way to become irreplaceable.
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EL

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2005, 08:50:57 AM »
Now this topic is getting way, way off base.  Brunswick is moving, live with it. Buy their equipment or not, this is America you have a choice just like them.

Bjaardker

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #100 on: June 21, 2005, 09:13:42 AM »
Here's another really good example of how out of how much big business is all about maximizing profits.

Here is the top of the Corporate power structure at Brunswick & what they made last year:

Mr. George Buckley ,
58 Chairman and Chief Exec. Officer  $4.15 Million

Mr. Peter B. Hamilton , 58
Vice Chairman and Pres of Life Fitness Division $1.12 Million

Mr. Peter G. Leemputte , 47
Chief Financial Officer and Sr. VP $1.16 Million

Ms. Victoria J. Reich , 47
VP and Pres - Brunswick Europe $1.22 Million

TOTAL  $7.65 Million

The total Brunswick was going to be saving by moving to Mexico? $5-7 million.

Those of you who are Brunswick apologists are either incredibly wealthy, or still dont understand there IS something wrong with companies leaving our country with nothing more than a profit motive.

sdbowler

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #101 on: June 21, 2005, 10:09:19 AM »
I never realized so many racist people on this board.
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Bjaardker

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2005, 10:13:44 AM »
quote:
I never realized so many racist people on this board.
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Brunswick


I'm not sure if you're just saying that to hijack the thread or are serious.

There are tons of racist people everywhere in this country, not just on this board.

But racism has nothing to do with my disdain for a company moving out of the country to increase their profit margins.

sdbowler

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #103 on: June 21, 2005, 10:19:48 AM »
No hijack at all. I know that there is racisim all over the country but just because they want to move a plant everyone is pi$$ed about it. All I am getting at. Let the move happen and see how the product is after that. I will be willing to bet right now that once the move happens nobody will know that it did.
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EL

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2005, 10:20:04 AM »
Geez, all of you don't get it....it's all about $$$$$$.  It's not about America workers, it's not about Mexcian workers, it's not about quality, it's not about lower the price on Brunswick ball, it's not about who is being affected.  It's all about MONEY.  Some of you guys are answering your own questions.  Who posted about the earning of the big wigs at Brunswick.  The profit they make from the move you stated I believe it's $5-$7 million.  You know where it goes?? To them, oh my god people wake up!!

Bjaardker

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Re: why Brunswick.... why
« Reply #105 on: June 21, 2005, 10:31:36 AM »
quote:
No hijack at all. I know that there is racisim all over the country but just because they want to move a plant everyone is pi$$ed about it. All I am getting at. Let the move happen and see how the product is after that. I will be willing to bet right now that once the move happens nobody will know that it did.
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Brunswick


Again, Being upset because they are moving operations has nothing to do with racism & everything to do with the fact that they are just another company that is  basing everything they do off of greed.

The amount that they are going to save per year by cutting 115 jobs & splitting town is less than the top 4 people make.

And it's not just those 115 people that are affected. By moving to Mexico they no longer have tariffs on other foreign materials that are the base components to their product. Also the city of muskegon gets hit hard because a large factory has pulled out of town & no longer will be paying taxes.

To play the race card is to miss the point.