Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 10:46:43 AM
any reason besides its cheaper behind the move?
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Post by: DON DRAPER on June 16, 2005, 07:32:26 PM
Post by: UCIbowl on June 16, 2005, 07:44:24 PM
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REV MASTER
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 08:06:18 PM
... It was a hole tv segment here... not only will brunswick risk a quality drop but ALSO a lot of jobs will be lost here in Michigan 
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Post by: UCIbowl on June 16, 2005, 08:08:23 PM
another day in business huh
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REV MASTER
Post by: Bjaardker on June 16, 2005, 08:18:47 PM
If it is & Brunswick has no plans to replace the jobs that are being lost I will certainly not be buying Brunswick anymore & will probably be avoiding Lane#1, Morich & anyone else using their covers.
It will probably affect my game, but I'm sorry, there's no excuse for this. Our country needs MORE jobs, not less jobs right now. Especially good paying skilled jobs.
Please someone confirm this.
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 08:33:46 PM
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97828&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=721331&
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Post by: charlest on June 16, 2005, 08:41:15 PM
How much will they lose of their American customer base?
Lane#1, Elite and Morich and other sub-contractors won't have much say in where their balls get manufactured, will they?
Note: With Brunswick's usual production runs in the thousands, tens of thousands or more at a time, I thought their production costs of bowling balls should be some of the lowest in the industry as it was.
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Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, in bowling you only have to get close ...
CharlesT
Post by: BrunsNick on June 16, 2005, 08:45:21 PM
I'm not worried about quality control one bit, I'm sure it has more to do about meeting the demand of Joe Bowler.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 08:52:26 PM
quote:
Building a plant from scratch has its advantages, advances could be made in productivity. Just speculating, but there may newer technology in efficiency.
I'm not worried about quality control one bit, I'm sure it has more to do about meeting the demand of Joe Bowler.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
True but if they are really trying to get to Joe Bowler then they will stay in the USA, not all Joe Bowlers are goign to buy Mexical built equipment...
you dont like Walter Ray doing things for money, what about Brunswick doing things for money... sounds like they care more about money than the average bowler to me
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Post by: Walking E on June 16, 2005, 08:53:14 PM
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: a_ak57 on June 16, 2005, 09:10:51 PM
--------------------
- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: BrunsNick on June 16, 2005, 09:13:18 PM
quote:quote:
Building a plant from scratch has its advantages, advances could be made in productivity. Just speculating, but there may newer technology in efficiency.
I'm not worried about quality control one bit, I'm sure it has more to do about meeting the demand of Joe Bowler.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
True but if they are really trying to get to Joe Bowler then they will stay in the USA, not all Joe Bowlers are goign to buy Mexican built equipment...
It would be as if it was built in Los Angeles, same people. LOL
If I'm not mistaken, Ford has a major plant in Mexico, and that doesn't stop the F150 from being the most sold production vehicle ever.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: Bluff on June 16, 2005, 09:15:34 PM
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Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS!
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 09:18:36 PM
quote:quote:quote:
Building a plant from scratch has its advantages, advances could be made in productivity. Just speculating, but there may newer technology in efficiency.
I'm not worried about quality control one bit, I'm sure it has more to do about meeting the demand of Joe Bowler.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
True but if they are really trying to get to Joe Bowler then they will stay in the USA, not all Joe Bowlers are goign to buy Mexican built equipment...
It would be as if it was built in Los Angeles, same people. LOL
If I'm not mistaken, Ford has a major plant in Mexico, and that doesn't stop the F150 from being the most sold production vehicle ever.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Im just here to tell you, not argue with you
--------------------
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Edited on 6/16/2005 9:14 PM
Post by: Hex017 on June 16, 2005, 09:21:30 PM
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: a_ak57 on June 16, 2005, 09:26:30 PM
Like I said before, the whole boycotting thing is just stupid. Not to mention hypocritical. I demand that right now, whoever decides to boycott Brunswick for this, you MUST boycott ANYTHING that is not made in the united states. If you don't, you're very hypocritical and don't have your priorities straight. Afterall, I don't see the huge movement to stop Walmart and virtually every other massive store which use not only foreign labor, but likely child labor?
Don't take it as if I'm condemning you for being angry, you should be, but boycotting a company like Brunswick wouldn't achieve crap. Especially some of you whose bowling might suffer too.
But I feel bad for the 115 people who will be losing their jobs. Hopefully they'll find good jobs, since they at least have a year before they're done.
--------------------
- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Edited on 6/16/2005 9:32 PM
Post by: No Fear on June 16, 2005, 09:30:04 PM
Post by: shelley on June 16, 2005, 09:37:39 PM
quote:
Building a plant from scratch has its advantages,
Like multi-color particle balls that every other manufacturer has had for a long, long time.
SH
Post by: Hex017 on June 16, 2005, 09:38:01 PM
I realize that tons of things are not made in the U.S. but being bowlers we are picky and demand a true customer service, by moving the plant out of the country well....I see some major loyality in that. Personally I hope this hurts Brunswick, it's just plain stupid. If they are worried about losing money so badly why not raise the prices of equipment(not just balls, lanes, score machines, etc. etc.) I mean come on people are willing to pay the prices of Lane 1 I'm sure it would work with Brunswick...(considering Brunswick makes Lane 1's coverstocks for crying out loud)
Everyone has an opinion but I think it's clear now...it's all about the money.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: a_ak57 on June 16, 2005, 09:45:23 PM
But, there is still time. Maybe if you get the signatures of the tens of thousands of people who use brunswick, to say that they'll pay an extra 40 bucks per ball to keep the factory here, they might listen.
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 09:48:00 PM
I dont like the idea that they are cutting more jobs over here in Michigan, i dont think many Muskegon bowlers will be buying brunswick for a while...
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Post by: a_ak57 on June 16, 2005, 09:50:03 PM
There is my stand.
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: Hex017 on June 16, 2005, 09:52:03 PM
And yes I actually would expect people to pay more for Brunswick equipment if it is as great as it's claimed to be. I guess I'm overeacting but todays not been a fun day and to see this is pretty bad.
PS: Did not mean to call you out in anyway Andy(even though I did, go me contradicting myself) just wasn't expecting the "well it all comes down to money and everyone else would do it to you know it" excuse...
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: BigWillyStyle on June 16, 2005, 09:53:53 PM
quote:
But, there is still time. Maybe if you get the signatures of the tens of thousands of people who use brunswick, to say that they'll pay an extra 40 bucks per ball to keep the factory here, they might listen.
I think if $40 wasn't that big of a deal, then why was there such a demand for "Mid-price" equipment on the market...? Oh Yeah! I'll tell you why...cause half of the bowling population wants High-End equipment AT A LOWER PRICE!!!!!!! Wait, lemme say this again...LOWER PRICE!!!!!! And now, Brunswick has done something to help with this and people are "going to pay more?" C'mon Hex...don't make yourself look stupid, cause I can tell you're not...
Big Willy Style
PS...I will still be throwing my Bionic Zone 1 and now I am pulling out my Swamp Monster for my sport league (heard they were flooded tonight).
--------------------
Just my $0.02; so take it for what the Foreign Exchange values it at!
"I was raised by a cup of coffee..."
***This message brought to you by the A.O.B.U.B.O.A. (Assembly Of Back-Up Bowlers Of America) which is now taking applications***
Post by: Hex017 on June 16, 2005, 10:10:21 PM
I'm just saying...I figured a price raise would not be insane because I mean Brunswick makes such great equipment right?(not being a smart@ss...it's just every company claims there greatness)
I guess I would never make it in the business world but I know for a fact that moving jobs out of the U.S. makes no one happy.(except brunswick and the mexican workers) Isn't there some kind of claim to the customer for quality? I mean look at the Budweiser commercials, I think it's bedweiser anyway, they are using the fact that there beer IS American made to sell. I see more of trying to give back to the customer. I guess that really doesn't work in the business anymore, the millions of dollars can obviously be used for better products or w/e.
Well sure thats great more money for Brunswick to make you better balls or whatnot...unless you're one of the few hundred who got screwed out of a job at the michigan plant.
I guess I should stop expecting and assuming eh? O well I don't plan to be a business hotshot anyway. Well I'm done, too much typing for one topic
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: Mike Austin on June 16, 2005, 10:16:10 PM
I wish they wouldn't do it though, I think the quality will go down, and bowling balls are one of the things that the USA manufactures the most of. I don't see too many foreign made balls coming over here. Some plastic stuff by Storm and Ebonite, but even then, Storm had quality issues with their plastic balls made in China a few years ago.
Ultimately, it is about making money. If they can save some millions, then that is more profit......
--------------------
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Houston, TX
Drilling and Tech Advice BirdDogbowling.com
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Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 10:21:14 PM
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Post by: a_ak57 on June 16, 2005, 10:25:57 PM
quote:
i have a question here... if only 1 company is moving and i think the others are staying... for now... how can you tell if you got a mexican ball or a USA ball and would there be a possible price difference???
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Well bighook, unless they try to lie about it, considering all their stuff now says "Made in USA" on it, I'd assume some would say "Made in Mexico".......
And I doubt there would be a price difference, because then everyone would buy the cheaper balls and the ones making the expensive balls would have to close down and it'd be a snowball effect.
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: Hex017 on June 16, 2005, 10:26:43 PM
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: BrunsNick on June 16, 2005, 10:37:27 PM
If they do plant tours, I hope they give out a Brunswick Nation Sombrero like this:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTcwNzIwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Edited on 6/16/2005 10:43 PM
Post by: bighook69 on June 16, 2005, 10:41:07 PM
NO kidding though, they have PILES of bowling balls in the trashs outside....
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Post by: thfonz98 on June 16, 2005, 10:47:33 PM
or will the made in "suddenly" disappear?
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I have a problem..i'm a fluffer
Our military's drama club? (http://"http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=way_to_armadillo")
F.O.S. Member....Proof (http://"http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/upload_files/MVC-011F.JPG")
Post by: thfonz98 on June 16, 2005, 10:49:20 PM
quote:
Reynosa, Mexico actually puts the plant closer to me!
If they do plant tours, I hope they give out a Brunswick Nation Sombrero like this:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wOTcwNzIwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Edited on 6/16/2005 10:43 PM
yeah going to chevy's for birthdays was the bomb when we were younger huh brunsnick?
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I have a problem..i'm a fluffer
Our military's drama club? (http://"http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=way_to_armadillo")
F.O.S. Member....Proof (http://"http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/upload_files/MVC-011F.JPG")
Post by: BrunsNick on June 16, 2005, 10:55:55 PM
When we went to Merced last year, a bunch of us went to Chevy's. One of them thought it'd be funny to tell the lady it was my bday. Anyway, they brought me a hat and this big ol' ice cream sundae. He got all bent and jealous. Goodtimes.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: thfonz98 on June 16, 2005, 11:01:33 PM
do they still have the el plato gordo? it used to be a single plate but i think they made it a plate for two now.
--------------------
I have a problem..i'm a fluffer
Our military's drama club? (http://"http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=way_to_armadillo")
F.O.S. Member....Proof (http://"http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/upload_files/MVC-011F.JPG")
Edited on 6/16/2005 10:58 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on June 16, 2005, 11:06:31 PM
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: TheDude on June 16, 2005, 11:36:25 PM
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: WSUstroker on June 16, 2005, 11:51:33 PM
Anyways, its not good to see the plant go, but money talks. About the "made in America" logo, if I'm not mistaken, I think they can still claim the balls are made in America if the cores are made here along with the covers. The balls just happen to be produced across the border. We had this discussion in a Latin American geography class last year. American made parts put together in Mexico can still be called "made in America".--------------------
Dan Chambers
Winona State University Bowling
I'm Dan and I approve this message.
Post by: TheDude on June 16, 2005, 11:53:36 PM
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: thfonz98 on June 17, 2005, 12:02:01 AM
quote:
what about Brunswick doing things for money... sounds like they care more about money than the average bowler to me
take any business course and the first thing you learn is the roll of any business IS TO MAKE MONEY!
hello?
--------------------
I have a problem..i'm a fluffer
Our military's drama club? (http://"http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=way_to_armadillo")
F.O.S. Member....Proof (http://"http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/upload_files/MVC-011F.JPG")
Edited on 6/16/2005 11:57 PM
Post by: TheDude on June 17, 2005, 12:07:14 AM
as for my spanish lol i can't really speak it, but altavista.com in co-operation with babelfish make translating dumb comments a sinch.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: kid51178 on June 17, 2005, 12:18:58 AM
--------------------
Tim
You guys always complicate everything.
Post by: Bjaardker on June 17, 2005, 12:22:40 AM
quote:
I demand that right now, whoever decides to boycott Brunswick for this, you MUST boycott ANYTHING that is not made in the united states. If you don't, you're very hypocritical and don't have your priorities straight. Afterall, I don't see the huge movement to stop Walmart and virtually every other massive store which use not only foreign labor, but likely child labor?
Don't take it as if I'm condemning you for being angry, you should be, but boycotting a company like Brunswick wouldn't achieve crap. Especially some of you whose bowling might suffer too.
OK. I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart in 7 years.
You were wondering about the huge movement against Walmart? How about:
http://factchecker.purpleocean.org/
http://www.walmartmovie.com/
http://www.changeamerica.com/
Boycotting is stupid? Well first of all, I never said boycott. I will simply be voting with my wallet & secure in the fact that I'm not giving money to a country that is offshoring production for 5 to 7 Million.
Oh and just so you all realize how insignificant 5-7 million is to the Brunswick Corp: http://www.cincypost.com/2005/03/09/bruns030905.html
"Brunswick's profits in 2004 doubled to $270 million on a 16 percent jump in sales."
And it's kinda funny that you should mention Walmart. Here's this from that same article: "The United Marine Manufacturers Association, the largest organization of independent boat builders, has urged its members to avoid buying the company's products because "Brunswick intends to put you out of business." Group president Kent Wooldridge likens the big manufacturer to Wal-Mart with its growing presence and clout."
So thanks a lot Big B, but I'm going back to a company that isn't selling out its workers for a cheap buck.
Will just little old me make a difference? Not really. But trust me when I say there will be a day of reckoning for these mega-corps. When no one here has a job & the US is finally passed by many other countries as a world economic power...My conscience will be sound knowing I didn't help.
Edited on 6/17/2005 0:22 AM
Post by: DON DRAPER on June 17, 2005, 12:27:44 AM
Post by: Lane Bed on June 17, 2005, 12:29:09 AM
If the save $6,000,000 dollars a year and layoff 115 workers that is 52,000 per worker including benefits. Now they will be paying other workers minus that I do not think any of these workers at the Michigan plant was getting real rich. Just a bunch of people trying to hack out a living that no longer will have that option.
Mexican plants do not work like factories here. There are no real employees. They line up outside the plant and a foreman comes out and picks who will work that day. They get paid by the day and might only work here and there. They have no loyality to their employers, who have none to them. There are no pensions, or 401k's or unemployment. They make a product that a months pay would not buy and almost all are uneducated.
Since NAFTA mexican wages have declined 2/3 of what they were 8 years ago.
Quality - you do the math.
---------------------------------
EvERyOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: TTforshort on June 17, 2005, 12:40:31 AM
Is there a Track Nation?
TT
--------------------
"Following the course of least resistance makes for crooked rivers and crooked men."
Post by: BrunsNick on June 17, 2005, 01:44:52 AM
The new plant will be state of the art, remember that the current plant is like 100 years old.
And to whoever was comparing this to a Walmart takeover, Bowling is maaaaybe 10% of the Brunswick Corporation. They are doing this to save that portion of the company so it can make advancements in the industry with machinery that is state of the art.
Enough with the conspiracy theories, hearsay, and garble.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: Hex017 on June 17, 2005, 02:21:28 AM
quote:
They are not laying off workers, there are some that will relocate. This location is just off the Texas/Mexico border. The rest are being paid off for their pensions. I don't know all the specifics, but only a handful of employees at that plant will be out looking for work.
The new plant will be state of the art, remember that the current plant is like 100 years old.
And to whoever was comparing this to a Walmart takeover, Bowling is maaaaybe 10% of the Brunswick Corporation. They are doing this to save that portion of the company so it can make advancements in the industry with machinery that is state of the art.
Enough with the conspiracy theories, hearsay, and garble.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Nick only a handful....how would you like to be one of "only a handful?" I'm no all jobs stay in America activist but really now come on...
There I go again, expecting more out of this great company we call Brunswick. I absolutely HATE seeing ANY jobs move out of America to make a quick buck.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.
-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.
-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.
Post by: BrunsNick on June 17, 2005, 02:24:31 AM
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: bighook69 on June 17, 2005, 06:36:40 AM
quote:quote:
what about Brunswick doing things for money... sounds like they care more about money than the average bowler to me
take any business course and the first thing you learn is the roll of any business IS TO MAKE MONEY!
hello?
--------------------
I have a problem..i'm a fluffer
Our military's drama club? (http://"http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=way_to_armadillo")
F.O.S. Member....Proof (http://"http://www.bowlingballexchange.com/upload_files/MVC-011F.JPG")
Edited on 6/16/2005 11:57 PM
But the customers are giving the money so you must please the customer... Brunswick must apeal to the customer (average bowler) and have a good product to boot, otherwise the average bowler will take his buisiness elseware. With this action they are not thinking about the customer at all, they are thinking about money but they seemed to overlook the people who give them all this money.
--------------------
------------------
SlickTape Advisory staff member
Track Bowling.com
Evolutionary - Revolutionary
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Post by: KMAN300 on June 17, 2005, 07:47:57 AM
--------------------
Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Post by: BrunsNick on June 17, 2005, 08:05:57 AM
quote:
Well this new money saving DECISION??? Should mean we should be buying Brunswick balls for $50- $75.00 for the high performance stuff. If they only have to pay their new workers $3-$5.00 per hour shouldn't the cost drop drasticly? I wonder if the quality will go in the crapper?? This just kills me how PEOPLE THINK SO LITTLE OF THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS.
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Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Oh cut it out, I have to wake up and read this jargin?
And in regards to "thinking so little", your post proved you were doing just that.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: azus on June 17, 2005, 08:11:40 AM
Post by: KMAN300 on June 17, 2005, 08:18:50 AM
Have you ever lost your JOB(income) because of a move like this?? I have a couple of close friends and relatives that experienced this. "It's not good thing to see this happen to a family member or friend!! If you've no compassion for friends or fellow americans Your not really thinking!!
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Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Post by: EL on June 17, 2005, 08:55:44 AM
Post by: BrunsNick on June 17, 2005, 09:01:09 AM
quote:
It is always about the money.
You're right, and when the livelihood of the company sector itself is in potential jeopardy, then re-evaluation is needed. I'm not for a few people losing jobs, the ones that have been there a long time will be compensated, and the new ones will just have to find work elsewhere. The new plant will redefine the standard of bowling ball production, not cheapen it.
Life goes on.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BigWillyStyle on June 17, 2005, 09:06:51 AM
Big Willy Style
PS I am with BrunsNick on this one...do I really have to unsettle my stomach with this crap first thing in the morning?!?
--------------------
Just my $0.02; so take it for what the Foreign Exchange values it at!
"I was raised by a cup of coffee..."
***This message brought to you by the A.O.B.U.B.O.A. (Assembly Of Back-Up Bowlers Of America) which is now taking applications***
Post by: KMAN300 on June 17, 2005, 09:16:16 AM
Lets just move all the american companies out of the United States!
Do you agree with that one too?
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Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Post by: louie on June 17, 2005, 09:38:51 AM
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?
louie
Edited on 6/17/2005 9:34 AM
Post by: BrunsNick on June 17, 2005, 09:38:55 AM
If you're gonna take that ridiculous stand, then get rid of all the non-American made items in your house and car.
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BigWillyStyle on June 17, 2005, 10:02:27 AM
"They shoulda done something to stay afloat!"
"I don't see why they didn't try to cut labor or other costs."
"Why didn't they try making a more up-to-date building to keep up?"
Case in point!
Big Willy Style
PS...KMAN, next time you come up with a rebuttal, make it a little better than a Pee Wee Herman'esque "I know you are but what am I?!?" type comment... it insults my intelligence AND your mental credibility...!!!
--------------------
Just my $0.02; so take it for what the Foreign Exchange values it at!
"I was raised by a cup of coffee..."
***This message brought to you by the A.O.B.U.B.O.A. (Assembly Of Back-Up Bowlers Of America) which is now taking applications***
Post by: onlybowling on June 17, 2005, 10:22:38 AM
Minimum wage is not enough.
We, as a country, now buy 40% of all products exported from China. China loans us the money to purchase their products at this level. We are the largest consumers of products from every country - and we produce the least. We do not produce a television, a DVD player, tennis shoes, nor any common household appliance. We do produce cars and tires. Higher fuel prices and the trend toward purchasing cars that that are able to give 50 miles per gallon is killing the American auto sales/manufacturing industry. NAFTA - the "lets level the playing field" treaty, that passed under Bill Clinton, may not have been the beginning of the flight of American business to foreign soil, but, it marks a time in my thought. There was a time before NAFTA.
It seems to me that our democratic federal system is not forcing, but, it is encouraging a relocation of industry to foreign soil. If is isn't possible to make a profit where you are, you have a choice - shut down, or move.
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OnlyBowling
Post by: RandyO on June 17, 2005, 10:25:15 AM
Those of you who are "100% BUY AMERICAN" need to make sure that you are buying what you think. I drove Ford Rangers for the last 20 years. I knew they were a little "rougher" than their Japanese counterpart, but what the heck, they were AMERICAN!! When my 99 Ranger started showing its age, and the lack of passenger room became an annoyance, I started researching compact trucks. I really really wanted to buy AMERICAN. So I did. I bought a truck that was "made" about 12 miles from my house. Guess what, it is made about 100% better than any of my Ranger's were. Better design. Better materials. 80% more horsepower for damned near the same gas mileage. Check out the assembly line:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105515#
It's built by America workers with parts and materials that come from everywhere. Many of the parts are made or formed in the factory. American workers can be competitive when working in a state of the art modern factory, building products that are well designed and engineered. I would have preferred to have seen big-B build a modern factory in the USA. However, they chose otherwise for economic reasons. OH Well - that was their decision to make, not mine. As long as they keep making the best equipment and they price is competitive, I will probably keep buying their product. However, that's as far as it goes. If there's a 100% American made product that is just as good for a similar price, I will buy American.
Post by: michelle on June 17, 2005, 11:17:21 AM
Post by: qstick777 on June 17, 2005, 12:15:07 PM
quote:
looks at imprint on ball near serial, "made in Mexico" what?
or will the made in "suddenly" disappear?
That will disappear - it's part of the new "save costs through less engraving" program, or the "we have to engrave the USBC logo, so something else will have to be eliminated" program.
Post by: Jason Kovack on June 17, 2005, 07:01:09 PM
--------------------
Jason Kovack
Team Canada
Brunswick Amateur Staff
Post by: scooter1 on June 18, 2005, 09:24:27 AM
Post by: sdbowler on June 18, 2005, 08:29:23 PM
If you want to complain about them going to Mexico where is your car made at? Most of the so called "American" made cars are made outside of the United States. It seems like more of the "Foreign" cars are made more inside the States now.
As far as quality of the equipment do you honostly think Brunswick will let that slip? Being they are back on top or right there depending on who you are and how you look at it. Why would they let the quality drop on their products. Prices would not drop to the $50-$75 like one would wish.
Yes it sucks that they want to move the plant to Mexico but this could also mean better equipment in the future as well. Why are most of you looking at the downside of this. Stop and think that if they cut corners on labor and save there they could spend more on r&d and make better equipment then what they currently have.
As already said earlier if you want to stop using Brunswick due to them moving the plant out of the country you better get rid of everything else that is not made in the United States. Check the label on your pants let me guess made outside of the States. Your shoes, same thing. Want me to go on? Most of what we use/wear is from a foreign country.
--------------------
Brunswick
Post by: Outrage300 on June 18, 2005, 10:27:04 PM
So you can have your "Brunswick balls" I'll stick to USA made.
Outrage
Post by: sdbowler on June 18, 2005, 11:08:11 PM
quote:
sdbowler those jeans you wear that are probably made down south used to be made in the US, maybe even by my mother until her plant closed and they moved production into Mexico. Believe me her wages definately weren't that great.
So you can have your "Brunswick balls" I'll stick to USA made.
Outrage
I was trying to make a point that many things that we use or wear are made outside of the United States. If you don't want to use Brunswick fine don't but don't let it be because they moved the production plant outside of the States. Read all your labels of where things are made at. How many are actually made in the U.S.? I am willing to say not many. People need to relax a little and see what is going to happen. Just like any other company they are trying to have a better bottom line is all. How many people on this site wear Levis? They are made in Colombia better stop wearing them. How about Ralph Lauren Chaps they are made in South America, better stop wearing them too. Are you getting my point. Just another product that will be made out of the borders. NO big deal other then the loss of jobs that is going to happen, yeah I don't like it either that they are loosing their jobs. Wake up and realize the times that we are in and that more and more manufacturing jobs are going out of country. If this was Storm, Columbia or any other company would this be such a big deal?
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Brunswick
Post by: RackTheRipper on June 18, 2005, 11:36:27 PM
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RacK
Post by: BrunsNick on June 19, 2005, 12:25:24 AM
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on June 19, 2005, 12:37:14 AM
Someone else loses their job, their problem. I lose my job... my problem. Some things are beyond our control and it is our choice to either sit on our couches and complain, or do something new, productive, and positive to change/minimize the negative effect that was brought upon by this particular unfortunate event.
Just my few cents.
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-Jeremy Vitug
Save Our Sport - http://www.foundation300.com
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on June 19, 2005, 12:44:44 AM
Water in Mexico is nasty!
Post by: BrunsNick on June 19, 2005, 01:59:38 AM
quote:quote:
As long as PK18, Activator, and core construction materials are made with the same "recipe" as it is today, I don't feel that there is a need to worry about who's making our bowling balls.
"recipe"....that there mexican water might make the covers fall apart
the new formula for particle is bits of taco, and cores are going to be chalupa-shaped....
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As long as the RG's and Diff's are the same as the Zone Classic core, its all good!!
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: Outrage300 on June 19, 2005, 05:33:55 PM
Outrage
Post by: BrunsNick on June 19, 2005, 05:46:31 PM
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: DP3 on June 19, 2005, 06:11:37 PM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: Bjaardker on June 19, 2005, 06:12:23 PM
quote:
Outrage, what are you going to do if and when the other companies follow suit?
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-05
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Purchase from small companies that won't be moving out of the US.
Visionary & others of that ilk.
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on June 20, 2005, 02:21:21 AM
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-Jeremy Vitug
Save Our Sport - http://www.foundation300.com
Post by: Bjaardker on June 20, 2005, 09:20:50 AM
quote:
I laugh, laugh, and laugh some more about the complaints because the people complaining are the same people complaining about how expensive costs of balls are.
Do you REALLY think that the cost of a Brunswick bowling ball is going to go down after they move to Mexico?
That's like the suckers who bought the crap the record industry was feeding us in the mid 80's when they said the costs of CDs would go down as soon as the technology caught up.
Brunswick made $270,000,000 PROFIT last year. By their own admission they will be saving only $5-7 Million. Do you think that is going to drastically impact the cost of their bowling balls? If so, let me have a slice of that pie in the sky you're hogging.
Post by: Koabzilla on June 20, 2005, 10:00:29 AM
Simply sad.
All to save a dollar or two. I would love to save some money on balls, but I purchase balls that I love to use at the price they are listed at. Now, if my balls are my by some dueche named jose........no thanks!!
Do people even bowl in mexico?
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WRECKING STICKS SINCE '93
Post by: Koabzilla on June 20, 2005, 11:12:43 AM
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WRECKING STICKS SINCE '93
Post by: Lane Bed on June 20, 2005, 04:22:18 PM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: Strapper_Squared on June 20, 2005, 07:12:22 PM
S^2
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+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-Strapper Squared
Alias Generator (http://"http://gorillamask.net/ronmexico/")
Edited on 6/20/2005 7:26 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on June 20, 2005, 07:27:45 PM
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: Bowljr300 on June 20, 2005, 07:40:07 PM
Storm products - Worst in the business. Place a Storm ball, any Storm ball, on a MoRich determinator and listen to it bounce. Storm has, by far, the most out-of-round bowling balls in the industry.
Hammer products - Some of my favorite to throw, but I haven't seen Hammer properly mark a cg in months. The Big Deal is a favorite of mine, but Ebonite and Hammer both must use the "Ray Charles" method for marking the cg. It's typically a mile off.
Ebonite products - As stated above, has problems finding cg's and some of their balls are out-of-round.
Columbia and Track - Have some of the best overall quality.
Brunswick - A very close second place to Columbia and Track.
So, please don't assume that a move to Mexico automatically means poor quality.
We have manufacturers here in the U.S. with their own problems. It's just that those of you who are not in a proshop don't ever see them because we are able to compensate for them.
Post by: Doug Sterner on June 20, 2005, 07:52:04 PM
I will not endorse, sell or throw any equipment as such.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: KMAN300 on June 20, 2005, 08:52:55 PM
As stated before its just sad sad sad !! The Brunswick stuff had a really good product and name going Until now that is! I live in Michigan and this kind of lack of American Pride is hurting a lot of people close to me.
Just one question where will it STOP?? I hope they knock Brunswicks head off transporting these balls back into the USA!
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Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Post by: Stjosephkid on June 20, 2005, 08:56:25 PM
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You'll all be left in SHOCK & AWE!!!!
Post by: SprayNpray on June 20, 2005, 09:21:31 PM
To make this simple, I'll put it this way: Businesses that fail to adapt to ever-changing economic pressures will INEVITABLY become obsolete. It might not be tomorrow, or a year from now, but eventually failure to adapt will cause a business to go under.
If Brunswick has the vision to be proactive and do something about the economic pressures that they (and all businesses) face, and can make changes that are more cost-efficient long-term for their business, then more power to them! What is more American than the ability and freedom to maximize profit potential? Besides, we don't know their situation and I'll bet there are a lot of well-educated, sharp people behind this decision. I doubt very seriously if they didn't consider the uproar-from-Joe-Bowler angle, but that is a risk they are willing to take.
If you are worried about the loss of employment that may or may not be caused by such a move, what happens when the ever-decreasing margins caused by a multitude of factors catch up with them and they can't afford to sign the paychecks? I submit that EVERYONE (other than the other manufacturers, of course) is better off if Brunswick stays in business and maintains market share and provides competition so that prices for us as consumers will stay down.
Maybe if they had some decent jobs in Mexico we wouldn't have the problem with illegal aliens we have in this country. Instead, everyone wants to impose their ideals on the very people who fuel this economy and require that businesses maintain employment for people. Well here's a newsflash, folks: having a job is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. If you can't cut the mustard, get out of the way because business is all about survival of the fittest, not some mother-hen philosophy that we need to take all of the starving and needy under our wings and provide for them. Furthermore, if you have to depend on pseudo-patriotism or some idealogical guilt trip to sell a product as opposed to making a better product, maybe you shouldn't be in business anyway.
I am so sick of how everyone wants to demonize big business for making business decisions that are healthy for their existence. Unless you have faced the pressures of running a business over the long term as I have, you probably have no idea what it means to adapt and roll with the punches that you will face in today's business climate.
If you are going to make a decision regarding what product to use, make the decision based on how the product performs for you and whether it is within your budget, not on some idealogical guilt trip that has no base in reality whatsoever.
quote:
The thing that bothers me, is its a matter of principal.
Sounds like someone who has never walked the walk, as far as running a business is concerned. YOu have to do what is ethical, but you can't let a "matter of principal" be your demise, either. That is NOT to say a business person should sacrifice their integrity or ethics; it is the responsibility of the business first and foremost to make BUSINESS-healthy decisions. While important, the well being of the employees is second to the well-being of the business itself.
I have so much more to say but I'll try to cut this down a bit.
--------------------
Predicting my next opponent runs into a BUZZSAW!
Member- FOS
LUCK is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
Post by: Lane Bed on June 20, 2005, 09:45:56 PM
I've had my last 2 jobs move to Mexico.
Walk in my shoes for a while and get your life upheaved a few times and maybe you will think differently.
Lost 12 years of pension time.
Both business' ended up failing there, big companies too.
Hope they rot there.
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: a_ak57 on June 20, 2005, 09:46:39 PM
quote:
Thats dine adn good saw, but if the business decions(this one does not) has to ne healthy as in hires illgeals, that business can crash and burn for all I care.
--------------------
BEST TAPE EVER>>>>> www.slicktape.com
My Saws NEVER Stop Cutting.
-Pimp Wayne
We hit Hard!!!!
site is www.lane1bowling.com
www.bowlingballexchange.com YEAH BBE!!!!!!
What in the bloody hell did you just say??
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: Walking E on June 20, 2005, 10:03:37 PM
Is Brunswick actually losing money in the bowling industry or are they not making enough of a profit to satisfy some arbitrary and/or unrealistic figure established by Brunswick's upper management?
While some business owners may feel that it's justified to maximize profits, it can also lead to unscrupulous business practices in ensuring that a business unit meets these goals. This is similar to what happened with Enron and some of the other companies out there that misled investors with their fictitious numbers. The business units simply weren't allowed to 'not meet their numbers', so they cooked the books to make it seem like they were meeting their goals. I'm not saying that Brunswick is doing this, but I think a business culture which hammers into the management and employees "MAXIMIZE PROFITS MAXIMIZE PROFITS MAXIMIZE PROFITS" can very easily lead to unethical business practices to ensure that they meet their goals.
Now in this case, we don't know if Brunswick's bowling division is losing money, breaking even or making a small profit - what we do know is that they are looking to save millions each year in operating costs. What we can also expect - excuse me if I'm cynical about this - is that the cost savings will NOT be passed on to consumers.
So if, in fact, Brunswick IS currently making money in their bowling division AND is moving the production to Mexico simply to MAXIMIZE profits while not providing any cost savings to the consumer, then I, for one, will think they're a bunch of unethical scumbags and will never purchase their products again, because I don't agree with that way of doing business. I doubt that we'll ever really know if this is the case, as I'm sure that Brunswick isn't going to open their books to satisfy the curiosity of a bunch of skeptical bowlers like ourselves, for better or worse.
--------------------
Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: SprayNpray on June 20, 2005, 10:13:49 PM
quote:
Hey SawFreak
I've had my last 2 jobs move to Mexico.
Walk in my shoes for a while and get your life upheaved a few times and maybe you will think differently.
Lost 12 years of pension time.
Both business' ended up failing there, big companies too.
Hope they rot there.
Lane Bed, I am sorry about your personal situation. That being said, my upcoming thought will probably sound callous to someone like you, BUT it needs to be said regardless:
If you want job security, make yourself irreplaceable. By that I mean create wealth for the company you work for, not remove wealth (just show up to collect a paycheck). *DISCLAIMER* In no way is this a personal attack on you, Lane Bed, or anyone else for that matter.
People are paid according to their ability to create wealth- whether directly or indirectly. If you create wealth for your employer, you make yourself irreplaceable. If someone else is willing and able to do the same job for half, I am sorry but you are replaceable. The solution to this is to have a SKILL that you can SELL, and for job security purposes it should be one that creates wealth/profit/income for your employer OR yourself, should you choose to go that route.
This is why professional athletes are paid so much: they put butts in the seats and they SELL and create awareness of the "brand" of the team (jerseys, hats, sponsorships, etc.). Without them, do the owners have much of a product to sell? I doubt it.
quote:
Thats dine adn good saw, but if the business decions(this one does not) has to ne healthy as in hires illgeals, that business can crash and burn for all I care.
No one said anything about HIRING illegals, L1B. I agree, no business should do that. It is not a healthy business decision to break the law nor to reward people for breaking the law, last time I checked.
--------------------
Predicting my next opponent runs into a BUZZSAW!
Member- FOS
LUCK is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
Post by: Lane Bed on June 20, 2005, 10:47:05 PM
Was a lead man on both jobs. Company profits rose between 2% to 3% each year. Not bad for a big manufacturing company. Never late on one order in 5 years. I would say that is a value to the company. However, wages are cheaper in Mexico and they figured they could make a better profit there. OOB in 3 years.
Another note: Mexician wages have dropped 2/3 to 1/2 since NAFTA. Not good for them either.
They get not one dime of my money and the sooner they go OOB the happier I will be.
Hasta la vista Brunswick!!!!
---------------------------
EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: SprayNpray on June 20, 2005, 10:50:42 PM
quote:
What is more American than running a profitable business? We do not have any responsibility to our fellow Americans, to our community, or to anyone else other than ourselves. If we can make a profit by selling out our fellow Americans, then that is the way it is supposed to be. The American story is all about rugged individualism. Giving any thought to others is socialism, and we all know socialism is bad. If you can't cut it, can't make yourself irreplaceable, then Darwinism says that you've got to go...sorry, but that's the way of it. Shape up or ship out, pal...you're on your own.
Hm... laced with sarcasm. I can pull that off too, I guess...
redbear, I couldn't have said it better myself! Oh wait, I already did. Sorry to break this to you, but "rugged individualism" IS what made this country what it is, and will continue to do so.
Also, selfishness does not necessarily go hand-in-hand with the American Dream; that is up to the person or business involved. The great thing about this country is that there is INCENTIVE to exceed the norm (read: maximize profits). I don't HAVE to work my A S S off so someone can sit at home and get an equal slice of the pie, as is the case in socialism. That happens way too often anyway even in this country, and you'll have to excuse me for my "I-have-mine, you-get-yours" mentality, but it is because I have had to work my backside off to get "mine". BTW I have been on the wrong side of that line, and didn't like it, so I DID something about it. I never got anything I didn't work my sorry butt off to achieve. Never had a handout, never a hand up. Pure willpower and hard work. Sorry, but I want to keep what I work so hard to earn, and not give it away to people who don't deserve it.
Darwinism has been my personal experience, from both sides. It is reality. And I will clarify, it is true that we don't have any responsibility to our fellow Americans. To impose that responsibility would be, well, un-American. However, unlike in other countries, we have the CHOICE as to whether we be charitable, selfish, or otherwise. I can't fault Brunswick for making a decision such as the one they have made; I can only wish them well and hope that the people who are affected are able to find a way to become irreplaceable.
--------------------
Predicting my next opponent runs into a BUZZSAW!
Member- FOS
LUCK is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
Post by: EL on June 21, 2005, 08:50:57 AM
Post by: Bjaardker on June 21, 2005, 09:13:42 AM
Here is the top of the Corporate power structure at Brunswick & what they made last year:
Mr. George Buckley ,
58 Chairman and Chief Exec. Officer $4.15 Million
Mr. Peter B. Hamilton , 58
Vice Chairman and Pres of Life Fitness Division $1.12 Million
Mr. Peter G. Leemputte , 47
Chief Financial Officer and Sr. VP $1.16 Million
Ms. Victoria J. Reich , 47
VP and Pres - Brunswick Europe $1.22 Million
TOTAL $7.65 Million
The total Brunswick was going to be saving by moving to Mexico? $5-7 million.
Those of you who are Brunswick apologists are either incredibly wealthy, or still dont understand there IS something wrong with companies leaving our country with nothing more than a profit motive.
Post by: sdbowler on June 21, 2005, 10:09:19 AM
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Brunswick
Post by: Bjaardker on June 21, 2005, 10:13:44 AM
quote:
I never realized so many racist people on this board.
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Brunswick
I'm not sure if you're just saying that to hijack the thread or are serious.
There are tons of racist people everywhere in this country, not just on this board.
But racism has nothing to do with my disdain for a company moving out of the country to increase their profit margins.
Post by: sdbowler on June 21, 2005, 10:19:48 AM
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Brunswick
Post by: EL on June 21, 2005, 10:20:04 AM
Post by: Bjaardker on June 21, 2005, 10:31:36 AM
quote:
No hijack at all. I know that there is racisim all over the country but just because they want to move a plant everyone is pi$$ed about it. All I am getting at. Let the move happen and see how the product is after that. I will be willing to bet right now that once the move happens nobody will know that it did.
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Brunswick
Again, Being upset because they are moving operations has nothing to do with racism & everything to do with the fact that they are just another company that is basing everything they do off of greed.
The amount that they are going to save per year by cutting 115 jobs & splitting town is less than the top 4 people make.
And it's not just those 115 people that are affected. By moving to Mexico they no longer have tariffs on other foreign materials that are the base components to their product. Also the city of muskegon gets hit hard because a large factory has pulled out of town & no longer will be paying taxes.
To play the race card is to miss the point.
Post by: tekneek on June 21, 2005, 11:28:03 AM
Post by: Bjaardker on June 21, 2005, 01:59:21 PM
quote:
It all comes down to the bottom line, it is called business, keeping the stock holders happy and the CEO's getting their huge bonuses.
And there you have it. So let's just all roll over on our backs & let businesses run wild.
I'll be sure to keep a seat warm for you on skid row.
Post by: Bjaardker on June 21, 2005, 03:11:09 PM
quote:
It is probably already too late to stop Brunswick, but by the time the plant in Mexico is operational, it will definitely be too late. For that reason, I am ceasing purchases of Brunswick products immediately.
Ditto.
Post by: KDawg77 on June 21, 2005, 03:47:37 PM
Post by: sdbowler on June 21, 2005, 04:39:43 PM
quote:
well thats why I like small bowling companys, they dont care about money as much as big corporations, i use visionary and they beat out any other ball company on the market, enough said....
--------------------
VPB Test Staff 2005
I have to argue with you on that one. EVERY company is in business for one thing and that is to MAKE MONEY. Tell me one company that is in business that is not that they hope to just stay even. I can't think of one.
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Brunswick
Post by: TheDude on June 21, 2005, 10:09:04 PM
quote:quote:
well thats why I like small bowling companys, they dont care about money as much as big corporations, i use visionary and they beat out any other ball company on the market, enough said....
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VPB Test Staff 2005
I have to argue with you on that one. EVERY company is in business for one thing and that is to MAKE MONEY. Tell me one company that is in business that is not that they hope to just stay even. I can't think of one.
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Brunswick
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: Bjaardker on June 22, 2005, 11:01:33 AM
quote:
Who said there wasn't any racist individuals on this board?
From Hammerbowler.
"Dexter moved their plant to china or some sh!t like that"
"hell, if you want to hire mexicans to do more work for less money, move the plant to my next of the woods, we've got friggin day-laborers on every corner..."
Sounds pretty racist to me...
And you don't like stupid people? Damn, don't be so hard on yourself.
I don't think that anyone said there weren't racist people on this board. As a matter of fact I think there are a great deal of people who need help with their preconcieved notions of other peoples.
However, this issue isn't about race & playing the race card is non-topical & getting away from the point.
Brunswick is laying off people everywhere & moving TONS of their production to Mexico to "maximize their profits". Mind you, profits are way up without these measures being taken, it's just that the CEO feels 4.14 million a year just isn't enough for him.
quote:
While the CEOs of major corporations made an average of 42 times the pay of an average worker in 1980, today the top bosses make a staggering 419 times the average pay.
quote:
Executive pay jumped 571 percent between 1990 and 2000. CEO pay rose even in 2000, a year in which the S&P 500 suffered a 10 percent loss. The explosion in CEO pay over the decade dwarfed the 37 percent growth in worker pay."
quote:
"If the average annual pay for production workers had grown at the same rate since 1990 as it has for CEOs, their 2000 annual earnings would have been $120,491 instead of $24,668. Likewise, if the minimum wage, which stood at $3.80 an hour in 1990, had grown at the same rate as CEO pay over the decade, it would now be $25.50 an hour, rather than the current $5.15 an hour."
quote:
"The startling hike in CEO pay, which has gone from 42 to 400 times that of the average worker in the past two decades, is 'terribly bad social policy and perhaps even bad morals,' William McDonough, President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, has said."
Even Business Week calls CEO pay "out of control."
One final quote that pretty much explains it all:
"Tying a CEO's salary to his stock options is wrong for a number of reasons, but let's start with the economic reasons, the business reasons. One thing it does when you're a CEO, and now 80 percent of your salary on average comes from stock options, is it ties your own personal fate to the stock price of your company. And many studies have shown it's led C.E.O.'s to take decisions which are good in their short-term stock price interests but not good in the long-term interests of the country, the economy, the community. For example, if you slash your work force by 10,000 workers, the stock market likes that. It shows you're cutting costs. The stock price goes up. It may be -- and this often is the case after six months or a year -- bad for the company; it's certainly bad for the community; it's bad for the tax base, but by being paid through stock options, you have that incentive. I should also say it has shown in many companies morale goes down as the CEOs salary goes up through the roof, not only among lower wage workers but among managers and the government is also hurting from this because companies deduct CEO pay. As it goes up through the roof, the share that corporations pay to our tax base goes down."
Post by: Mustang Guy on June 22, 2005, 01:29:04 PM
A Roto Grip staffer who lives in Michigan is sending me an article. In this article it states that 115 jobs were lost and they are going to be saving a total of $2.43/per ball (labor costs) by moving to Mexico. I'm sure there are other reasons behind the move, but that was the information given in the article.
Thanks,
--------------------
Roger Noordhoek
Office Manager
Roto Grip, Inc.
888-450-6920
RogerN@rotogrip.com
www.rotogrip.com
For all your Roto Grip Logo Merchandise please visit www.rotogear.com
Post by: Bjaardker on June 22, 2005, 11:52:08 PM
quote:
roger,
i, also, have not waded through this whole post, but from a local news source here in MI...
quote:
Brunswick said that estimated transition costs of approximately $7 million will be incurred over the next two years and will not materially affect its overall financial performance for 2005. The move will save the company between $5 million and $6 million annually once the transition is complete in 2007.
thats a bunch of balls at $2.43 a pop (labor or otherwise)...
KOTM,
Had you read through, you would have seen that the top 4 people at Brunswick make over $7.25 Million a year. Just 4 people. Now, there is nothing in their financials that is saying they wont continue to make that. The Bowling/Billiard division is making money to the tune of a 41.4 million dollar operating margin.
So they are cutting 115 jobs, hurting a Michigan community, and uprooting families all for what??? Greed.
Post by: bighook69 on June 23, 2005, 05:09:20 PM
quote:
WHY BRUNSWICK WHY DOES THIS D#MN TOPIC KEEP GOING!
HAy, dont mock my topic or wish death on it
It is a big issue you know...
the people of Muskegon are not too happy eigher
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SlickTape Advisory staff member
Track Bowling.com
Evolutionary - Revolutionary
Track Pack
dont forget www.slicktape.com
Edited on 6/23/2005 5:04 PM
Post by: qstick777 on June 23, 2005, 07:45:35 PM
quote:
eventually the people who lost their jobs,or any job from production sent away will not have the $200 for an inferno,an extra league,because they had to settle and work at quiznos. then they have no cash to spend where you work either, and you lose yourself.simple.
That is true. People look at this and say "good for Brunswick, they are making moves to ensure their future," and "tough luck for those people, but it's only 115 people, big deal - life it hard, deal with it it."
Fact is 115 are "affected." That is 115 people (and their families) that no longer have a salary to depend on. "So, just find another job!" Anybody know how plentiful jobs are in Muskegon, Michigan? I sure as h3ll don't, so unless you live there you really shouldn't be commenting. So, these 115 people don't have a job, so maybe they go on welfare. Or, maybe they take early retirement and start drawing social security. Or, maybe they resort to crime, or alcohol, or drugs to ease their "pain." Who knows what happens to them, but I don't see how the move is good for the US economy - the only people benefitting are Brunswick stockholders, upper management, and the newly employed mexican workers. Maybe we get some new technology that gives us some great new bowling ball that can hook the lanes - read the forums, people are already complaining that the game is too easy! It's a friggin game - you throw the ball at some pins and try to knock them all down - yee haw! Do you think the 115 "affected" families care how many strikes we make? Maybe they used to when they had pride in their job, but I beat they could care less when they no longer have a job.
"People shouldn't depend on manufacturing jobs to survive - this country needs to become more of a service industry oriented country. Take up plumbing or become an electrician!" Great idea! We can have 18 billion plumbers and electrians all fighting for customers! "I'll charge $5 less per hour than Larry so people will call me - at least my family will be eating, too bad for Larry!"
Both sides of the discussion have valid points, and we can discuss this all we want, but it isn't going to change anything. The facts are: a) people are losing their jobs, b) a large corporation is making moves to make more money for a selected few, and c) people are upset.
I for one am glad to see the passion in this discussion (from both sides!), but really how much longer are we going to beat this thing? Write a letter, start a petition, go picket the factory - complaining on this board isn't going to do anything.
Post by: bighook69 on June 23, 2005, 07:49:52 PM
like i said, its a mess... and people in Muskegon are not happy about this
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SlickTape Advisory staff member
Track Bowling.com
Evolutionary - Revolutionary
Track Pack
dont forget www.slicktape.com
Edited on 6/23/2005 7:45 PM