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Author Topic: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??  (Read 17743 times)

TheDude

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Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« on: November 17, 2008, 03:34:05 PM »
After talking with a customer that still has an absolute inferno, many years after its original release, I got to thinking alot. He mentioned that he still liked the ball alot. I have had a change of heart over the course of 4 years with brunswick. Honestly, them going to mexico and the radical inferno really left a bad taste in my mouth.

For me its not a labour issue, because my political views not important to the issue but they needed to for many understandable reasons besides the point the move to mexico was neccessary and a neccessity.

For me, in my proshop they just havent been able to get that lightening in a bottle since the absolute inferno and classic zone.

The ball with a lower rg simple single desinty core, and strong cover that was sanded but still had alot of grip and finish in the backend, not loosing energy and easy to polish. Of course i speak of activator.

In my area as much as the ball companies think that centers are introducing new oils every single year, our area isn't. In the last 4 or 5 years the volume of units, and types of oil have stayed the same. Volumes havent increased, and all the products coming out constantly boasting stronger covers with more midlane bite and handle more oil, they really arent getting higher scores. A re-release of the absolute inferno i think would sell again so well it would be really the saving grace of brunswick.

Im not a crack pot or whackjob because i see first hand the products passing through the market and see the products sometimes are just a hard sell.

I know everyone will put in there two cents, but the following were duds, and have been either on special and have never been backordered. Which usually is a sign of a product selling out faster than a market can handle.

The radical was hit and miss, blast zone, all the furys, were surrounded with contraversy, and the twisted original has been offered to me by more than one distributor on a specials list.

I have been throwing the twisted fury destruction, lately and not really impressed. its backend is average and  below average for the wholesale price performance.

I dont know if its the coverstock on it or the core, but if you were to take the activator and put that on any of the cores brunswick is making right now, how well would it react??



Honestly who would look at buying brunswick again if they put activator on some kind of decent core again? I certainly would again maybe. There brunswick stuff right now is the hardest sell on the ball wall. A new release from brunswick is struggling to create a buzz at all.


--------------------
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JustRico

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2008, 09:10:19 PM »
Hey MORON why do you think I am formerly....BRUNSWICK LAID ME OFF A OVER A MONTH AGO, where have you been. There was a post that had over 6300 VIEWS about it and you missed it?
And if you honestly do not think Americans are greedy nor lazy, then you are dilussional. You sir know nothing about much other, than starting arguments and insulting anyone as well as hiding behind a (multiple) screen name(s), so your so-called customers do not know what a jack-hole you are.

And BTW I stand by my statements.
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Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:30 PM
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jls

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2008, 09:34:49 PM »
quote:
Hey MORON why do you think I am formerly....BRUNSWICK LAID ME OFF A OVER A MONTH AGO, where have you been. And if you honestly do not think Americans are greedy nor lazy, then you are dilussional. You sir know nothing about much other, than starting arguments and insulting anyone as well as hiding behind a (multiple) screen name(s), so your so-called customers do not know what a jack-hole you are.

And BTW I stand by my statements.
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Formerly BrunsRico



Well now, I didn't know that. Actually I am sorry to hear that. Now what you said is true,  Us Americans do tend to be greedy and lazy.  But for a sales rep to say something like that about his customers, is not a good thing, even if true.  Now if stating the truth about pricing is starting an arguement, then so be it.  The truth is that,  most pro shops pay about $106-$108 for the Maxx zone, and anyone on earth can buy it online for $107.99 with free shipping.

Now exactly how does this start an arguement.  Is it because you don't want to hear the truth???

Well too bad.

And my customers do know me as JLS, and I get emails from many of them on a daily basis.  They do ask, why do I bother with people like you on BR.  I say, it relieves stress.

Now I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some shops have more then one person working for them.  My son works here and he did use to post. But he got bored with dealing with people like you, so he stopped.

Just because you people at Brunswick say something, that does not always make it so!!!!! Other ball companies have decent products too.  In fact has Big b made many TV shows? I know I see some Global and Storm.  I will try to pay more attention this week.

But you Big B people sure do love to knock Ebonite and their pricing policy.  But if someone defends them, then you all go postal.  Do you think you will scare me away.  Get a life.

Well I think Ebonite at least is trying to help pro shops.  Can we say the same about the big b???

And comparing a DQ iten to a current item.  Really, not cool.
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jls

Z Jellsey

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2008, 09:41:54 PM »
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine


Z Jellsey

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2008, 09:46:13 PM »
That's how I roll...
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I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine


Sjf

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2008, 09:56:20 PM »
quote:
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine




I see we have another computor tough guy.

Happy thanksgiving!

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:56 PM

Slumpbuster

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2008, 09:59:28 PM »
This "JLS" guy makes me ashamed to throw and even own a global bowling ball I may sell off my entire stash and say no to global and ebonite from now on!Is this idiot on staff? If he is, i will NEVER buy or throw whoever supports this guy ever again. Especially if any company thinks its okay for this guy to bash and trash any and everyone that has a different view from himself. And my pro shop lady wants to know what the hell does a ball being "DQ"ed mean???
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Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!

Z Jellsey

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2008, 10:04:11 PM »
Didn't say anything I wouldn't say to either of your faces...

...and it's computer not computor, clown!
quote:
quote:
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine




I see we have another computor tough guy.



Happy thanksgiving!

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:56 PM

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I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine


renoatpikeville

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2008, 11:30:33 PM »
quote:
This "JLS" guy makes me ashamed to throw and even own a global bowling ball I may sell off my entire stash and say no to global and ebonite from now on!Is this idiot on staff? If he is, i will NEVER buy or throw whoever supports this guy ever again. Especially if any company thinks its okay for this guy to bash and trash any and everyone that has a different view from himself. And my pro shop lady wants to know what the hell does a ball being "DQ"ed mean???
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Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!


If you haven't figured it out yet I think DQ means Discontinued...

DP3

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2008, 02:45:20 AM »
Last time I checked my catalouge and local customer contingent, there's a dozen or so other balls at a price point around/less for the Maxxx Zone that yeild a better or closer reaction for local lane conditions.  Luckily, the majority of my customers don't care what I pay for the ball and are happy enough with the good work I do to pay what I demand.  If it's online for 2 or 3 bucks cheaper(in my case 8 or 9 bucks cheaper online)....then eh, so be it.  In this industry which I run as a full time job I live by one motto.

Sell what keeps your customers satisfied and your bills paid.

Pro Shop 101.


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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop.  AMF Bowie Lanes -- Bowie, MD


Maine Man

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2008, 03:45:12 AM »
I agree with DJ on this one.  At the shop where I work, we sell an even amount of equipment from most major manufacturers across the board, regardless of minor price differences.  Our customers feel that the total experience and personal service they receive is worth the extra money that they would have saved by buying (and possibly getting it drilled ) online.  We also do not turn away customers who have bought balls away from our shop, as we feel that any business is good business.  We will custom fit and drill a ball for anyone who walks into the shop.  Many times, that same person who brought in their online purchase, begins buying from us after their experience, because they were surprised just how competitive we can be with our pricing and they were satisfied with the service after the sale.  They will pay the extra money knowing that we will go the extra mile and stand behind what we drill for them.

We sell as much (if not more) Brunswick equipment than the other major companies.  These things appear to be cyclical when it comes to popularity of a certain line, or brand, of balls.  We have sold a ton of Twisteds, Cells, Shifts, and Widows.  All four are from different labels, but have a certain niche with bowlers.  My personal feeling when it comes to Brunswick equipment, is that I like the reaction most of the current lineup gives you, and you can make a complete arsenal from what we can stock in the proshop.  You can cover just about any condition with a Twisted Fury, Maxx Zone, Swarm, and Avalanche Slide.  Customers coming into our shop like it when we can suggest to them other balls by the same company that will fill out their arsenal, and it is good for the shop as well because we may make 2-3 sales from a customer instead of just the one original sale.  They like balls that will give them different looks on the lane, and the current Brunswick lineup does that for our shop, and our bowlers.  Other companies try and do the same thing, and we do suggestive selling for every brand that we stock, so in my opinion Brunswick is on par with everyone else when it comes to giving bowlers a wide variety of equipment choices for different lane conditions.  We have not had many issues as far as ball quality from the Brunswick balls rolling in from the Mexico plant, and any issues that have come up have been dealt with very timely and satisfactory to the shop's requests from the company.  You can't ask for more than that.

As far as the Brunswick thing goes in regards to pricing, it's out of our hands, so we don't worry ourselves about it.  The pricing is not an issue really, for us, and I haven't seen any adverse affect of the online deals on current Brunswick balls denting into our sales.  Our prices on Cells, Twisteds, Sauces, and Dimensions are all within a few dollars of one another, so there is no gaping difference for us when it comes to Big B.  This is just my opinion from up here in the far northeast.  It may be different in other markets, but I can not speak for those people, just from what we have seen roll into and out of the shop up here.  I don't want to sound like a guy who is brand loyal only to Big B, because if you look at my profile I throw balls from just about every company, and suggest balls to certain bowlers based on the characteristics of the ball, and not the label on it.  I just focused on Brunswick here because it is the company being discussed in this thread.  Thanks for reading my response.
--------------------
James Goulding
Moores Pro Shop
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James Goulding
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jls

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2008, 09:25:31 AM »
Cool,  no it is me!!!!  My son got bored with this site about a year ago.

Now the previous two post are from pro shops.  They posted how they feel about big B balls.  If any of you took the time, you would have noticed that in a much earlier post I stated that we do ok with the Twisted Fury Line, and just recently starting ordering the Maxxx Zone.   Sold 3 in the last few days, and have 2 more on order.  NOWHERE in any of my post did I ever knock the quality of the Zone Line.  However, since others posted about the Cells and the Venoms,  I made a comment about the cost.  I wondered why, since the Cells and the Widow line cost pro shops about the same as a Maxxx Zone, why does a Maxxx zone sell on line for $107.99 as opposed to $119.99 for the other two lines.

Ebonite floor pricing has been a sore subject on this site.  Some posted that it isn't working or that Ebonite does not enforce it.  I said they do.  Then someone attacked with, "are you on drugs"  They they brought up balls like the NV, or complete or NVS or the ONE.  These balls have all been removed from floor pricing by Ebonite.  Why, must be because they did not sell and so Ebonite DQ them.  { disc. }  

So of course they will not be on the floor pricing plan!!!!  Now I do remember getting either an email or a letter from Ebonite saying that certain balls will be removed from floor pricing on a certain date.  I have no problem with that.  You can't expect Ebonite to DQ a ball and leave it on floor pricing!!!

I stated that floor pricing pertains to CURRENT model balls.  Which brings us back to the new release called the Maxxx Zone.  I believe it came out earlier this month.  Yet it is selling for $12.00 less online then other CURRENT model balls from other ball makers,  which retail for about the same price.

Now I as a pro shop  I do indeed have the RIGHT to question this.  Why is a brand new Cell Pearl or Venom selling higher online then a Maxxx Zone???

An yet people on this site claim that Ebonite floor pricing does not work!!!
It works and it pertains to new CURRENT models, not one year old DQ balls.

And as a pro shop who on a daily basis invests money into inventory.  I do have the right to question this.  It is not whining as some of the BIG B groupies call it.  If they had to invest their money into stock, I wonder would they complain!!!!  BET YOUR BUTT THEY WOULD.

Now as for the world famous Fury closeout of 2007.  According to my dist.  the ball was selling ok.  Yet many BIG B people told me that the their dist.  you know the ones who cater to online dealers,  told them that the ball had "slowed down to a crawl in sales"  Why,  maybe it was because these certain dist.  bought too many Fury's and their online dealers didn't sell them well at regular price.  So they were stuck with them.  So sad too bad!!!

So right before the busy Christmas selling season, BIG B dumps the Fury.  At  a time when retail sales are at their BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, no problem....  But they probably dumped these balls for about $60 to their dist.  who inturn dumped them to their online dealers for about $75-$80.
Now this was indeed a great deal for the consumer!!!!!  But it cost Big B profits.  

Now the Big B could have done this.... Tell their sales staff to get off their butts and call their accounts and say,  we have a deal on the Fury, buy 4 get one free.  At that time a fury was costing pro shops about $128.

Now that means that by buying 4 and getting one free,  the cost to the pro shops now becomes $102.40.  Big b could then have sold these balls to their dist.  for maybe $80.  They would have made at least $20 or more per ball.

By doing this they would have shown some concern for their pro shops. But no, they didn't.  Their sales reps were too busy posting on BR.  So they just dumped them to their dist who cater to online dealers.  And hundreds and hundreds of small pro shops who had the Fury's in stock, got screwed.  Kinda sorta like when they moved to Mexico. Those workers in Michigan lost their jobs!!!!

Now we were LUCKY.  at the moment in history we were out of Furys.  You see in my shop, the sales of the Fury had not slowed down to a crawl....
I was working on my usual stock order.  I had 2 Fury's on it.  Lucky for me I received a phone call from a customer asking about a Fury.  I told him I was out and was re ordering the next day.  He ask me my price, and then he told me he could buy the ball online for $99.  

I turned around in my chair and went on the computer to Bowling.com,  and there they were,  for $99!!!!!! Now before this they were selling online for about $130-$132.   And as a pro shop owner, I do have the right to whine or complain about this.  I'm sorry if the Big B groupies who are not in the pro shop business don't understand or care about this.   I as a pro shop do have this right!!!!!!

Also I do not have an axe to grind because the Big B moved to Mexico.  I darn anyone to go back 2-3 years ago when their move was a major hot topic on this site.  Many shops were mad and had nothing nice to say about the Big b.  

Not once did I ever post anything bad about them because of their move.  I never once posted that I would stop selling their balls.  It's there, go back and read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I did not like it, but I understood it.  After all, I play golf and just about all golf clubs are made in China!!!!!!!

One day the Big B might wake up and realize that pro shops are needed and do sell their products.  New companies like Global know this.  And each and everyday, more and more pro shops are finding out that companies like Global and Ebonite are truely helping pro shops, as well as the whole industry!!!!

Now I don't care one bit about what the Big b groupies that make up this site think or care about anything!!!!!

I don't spend much time on this site.  So I did not know that Just Ric was laid off.  I was sorry to hear that.  Hopefully another ball company like maybe a Global or Ebonite or Storm will realize what a great addition to their staff a person like Ric would make!!!!!

We don't seem to see eye to eye,  mostly over pricing, but I have read many of his post, and do consider him extremely knowledgeable.

Now as for this last issue some have brought up about online dealers.
I check out prices online on a daily basis from the big 3.  Bowling.com,  bowling paridise.com, and Buddiespro shop.com  

Just a week or so ago, a customer called and asked about a Blast Zone for his daughter.  I told him I no longer stocked that ball and that a new model called the Maxx zone may be the replacement for that ball.  He knew all about that Mazxx,  But the Blast zone was selling online at a much lower price.  he asked me what I thought of that ball.  I told him it was a good ball for med. to heavy oil.  Much like the new Maxx zone.  I told him to order it, and he did.

A few days later he brought the ball in to be drilled.  Earlier that day I had taken an order for a Maxxx zone.  And then while drilling his Blast Zone, I received a phone call and another customer ordered a Maxxx Zone.  So I then decided that maybe I should start stocking this ball.  And I have.  But I did not try to talk this person out of ordering this blast zone online.  On many occasions I tell people to order online.  So far this new season,  I have two customers who I have drilled 12-14 balls for.  All but 2 were bought online from Buddiesproshop.com   A site that I told them to order from!!!!!

Just this last monday a women who has a Break S75 wanted a Break Pearl.  She needs certain specs,  I ordered one for her, but when the ball came in, the Top weight was 4oz and she wanted 3 oz.  I told her to call Buddies,  because thay have pro cg Break pearls for $99. and maybe she could get her specs!!!!

So I laugh when certain no it alls say "deal with online" give me a break.

Now my customers know me, we have been in business for just over three weeks!!!
Ok a joke!!!  So I really don't care what big B groupies who probably are still
using LT-48's or black beauties think about what I say or feel.

I especially got a good laugh at the clown who posted, "I ain't never buying Global or Ebonite"  is he a child of 12,  you see real BOWLERS, bowl for money. And money bowlers would use a rock if they thought they could win MONEY.
So only a fool or a 12 year old would post something so childish.

I also saw another keyboard tough guy's post.  another 12 year old.
My friend text me when he saw that, I told him that I had had enough for one day dealing with these big b groupies.

BTW I did tell him if he wanted, to pass along an address!!!

Now to all you Big B groupies, I must leave.  Because this site and some of you really bore me.

Happy Thanksgiving
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jls

Edited on 11/27/2008 10:32 AM

MTD300

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2008, 09:48:14 AM »
JLS, why would Brunswick sell to an online supplier cheaper than a proshop distributor???

These online websites MUST be getting the balls cheaper than us pro-shops? I know they wouldn't sell them for a loss.

I deal with a supplier, they are given a minimum price listing for the Ebonite family, they agree to not sell the product any cheaper...that works!!! I can compete online with Ebonite family but not with Brunswick.

Just my 2cents

P.S Verbs, The Vapor is great, I have 4 NIB along with a Classic Zone, Time Zone, Absolute Inferno, Great Inferno, Racing Zone, Etoile, Total Inferno and Red Alert Press. The Black Widow I have 20 NIB in store

tuckingfenpin

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2008, 10:13:23 AM »
JLS has the worst case of nerd rage I've seen a long, long time.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

Sjf

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Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2008, 10:58:59 AM »
quote:
JLS has the worst case of nerd rage I've seen a long, long time.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.



Well I as a fellow pro shop ball driller don't think so. People like MTD, DP3, Maine, real pro shops may have a different point of view.  We as pro shops must deal with online pricing. As MTD and JLS have pointed out, Ebonite's pricing does help us. For you to come on and knock someone who has the guts to stand up to certain ball companies shows you lack the knowledge in retail to know what you are talking about.  As MTD pointed, He can compete with online dealers with Ebonite products.  That is because of their floor pricing plan.
And as he has pointed out, he can not compete with online dealers with Brunswick products.  As JLS pointed out, more and more pro shops are waking up and starting to deal with companies like Ebonite and Global because they have shown an interest in helping pro shops.   Now this sales policy of Ebonite's must be working,  because it appears that Brunswick has had to layoff some people.  Consumers on this site want to always get the lowest price.  Nothing wrong with that.  But pro shop ball drillers like myself and JLS and MTD and DP3 and Maine, make a living drilling balls.  This is not a game to us.  So fair pricing is extremely important to us.  And the "Pitbull" does not take kindly to ball companies that do not deal in a fair manner.  And of course if you do stand up for yourself on this site,  you will get bashed.  I find that most of the time the biggest bashers are people who buy one ball and use it forever.  Serious bowlers know the score.  And they know the importance of a good ball driller.  


Edited on 11/27/2008 12:00 PM