BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: TheDude on November 17, 2008, 03:34:05 PM

Title: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: TheDude on November 17, 2008, 03:34:05 PM
After talking with a customer that still has an absolute inferno, many years after its original release, I got to thinking alot. He mentioned that he still liked the ball alot. I have had a change of heart over the course of 4 years with brunswick. Honestly, them going to mexico and the radical inferno really left a bad taste in my mouth.

For me its not a labour issue, because my political views not important to the issue but they needed to for many understandable reasons besides the point the move to mexico was neccessary and a neccessity.

For me, in my proshop they just havent been able to get that lightening in a bottle since the absolute inferno and classic zone.

The ball with a lower rg simple single desinty core, and strong cover that was sanded but still had alot of grip and finish in the backend, not loosing energy and easy to polish. Of course i speak of activator.

In my area as much as the ball companies think that centers are introducing new oils every single year, our area isn't. In the last 4 or 5 years the volume of units, and types of oil have stayed the same. Volumes havent increased, and all the products coming out constantly boasting stronger covers with more midlane bite and handle more oil, they really arent getting higher scores. A re-release of the absolute inferno i think would sell again so well it would be really the saving grace of brunswick.

Im not a crack pot or whackjob because i see first hand the products passing through the market and see the products sometimes are just a hard sell.

I know everyone will put in there two cents, but the following were duds, and have been either on special and have never been backordered. Which usually is a sign of a product selling out faster than a market can handle.

The radical was hit and miss, blast zone, all the furys, were surrounded with contraversy, and the twisted original has been offered to me by more than one distributor on a specials list.

I have been throwing the twisted fury destruction, lately and not really impressed. its backend is average and  below average for the wholesale price performance.

I dont know if its the coverstock on it or the core, but if you were to take the activator and put that on any of the cores brunswick is making right now, how well would it react??



Honestly who would look at buying brunswick again if they put activator on some kind of decent core again? I certainly would again maybe. There brunswick stuff right now is the hardest sell on the ball wall. A new release from brunswick is struggling to create a buzz at all.


--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed''s Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
King Of Roto-Grip In Canada.
Keep them honest!


www.juniorsproshop.com now open serving the world.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: noturcuzin on November 17, 2008, 11:45:12 PM
I "Absolute"ly agree. Seriously, the Absolute Inferno and the Intense Inferno were my favorite Inferno's they made. Because of Activator+ coverstock. A tremendous core with a strong cover with good backend motion, what more could you ask for? It seems to me that a lot of companies are competing now a days to make the biggest hooking ball, which lots of us don't see enough oil to use anyway. If they were to bring back the Absolute Inferno I would buy one. I have strayed away from Brunswick and moved on to trying out other companies like InSite, Banger, 900 Global. I am a huge InSite fan, ever since I first threw the Prophecy I fell in love right away.
--------------------
CHRIS FARLEY:1964-1997
JOHN CANDY:1950-1994      
JOHN BELUSHI:1949-1982

"NO RESPECT, I GET NO RESPECT."-the great Rodney Dangerfield

http://www.bangerbowling.com/

InSite Bowling Products:2004-2008




Edited on 11/18/2008 0:49 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: rockerbowler18 on November 17, 2008, 11:54:47 PM
Couldn't agree more. Radical - have it. Hit and miss. Mostly miss. Not impressed.

The ball was a spare ball from games 1-20 until I got a track in it. Then it was a beast til game 70. Then it didn't carry, but still hit the pocket up until game 100. After game 100ish...ball was a piece. Rejuvenated, resurfaced, etc. Just never did like it again. It's overunder, uncontrollable, and hits like a pillow.

Total Inferno - have it. Uncontrollable, not too predictable. Sometimes works when it should, sometimes works when it seems like it shouldn't, sometimes doesn't work when it should...who knows!? It's a guessing game with the newer Brunsstuff for me. And, on top of that...the fury line sucked. The only decent one was the Twisted Fury Pearl (the red/white/black one) and even it wasn't that great.

On Edit:

Avalanche Pearl is alright. Really fit a gap my arsenal had...so 'grats on that one. Simple core/cover combo worked really well...but I think Ebonite has something that would work even better in its place: Bash (red/black/brown version).

Also, I better watch what I say, LOL, Brunswick sponsors JAT!

--------------------
JAT Junior Amateur Tour

Robb's Pro Shops: Bakersfield, California

Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 17-18 mph
Current Average: 230

Edited on 11/18/2008 0:58 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: KennyRambo on November 18, 2008, 12:05:40 AM
The absolute Inferno was one of the only brunswick balls I liked.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: BrunsNick on November 18, 2008, 12:12:04 AM
They're all money balls.
--------------------
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-08
http://www.BrunsNick.com
http://www.AskTheBowler.com
http://www.BigBapparel.com
Friends don't let friends drink the Kool-Aid!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 18, 2008, 07:59:09 AM
TheDude,

It really comes down to consumer perception.

Back in the late 90's/early 00's, it was "cool" to throw Storm equipment because of the motion it made, for some people, at the backend. Plus, PDW & Robert Smith were on staff at that time.

With the introduction of the Inferno in 2003, it became "cool" again to throw Brunswick. Brunswick taught "mid-lane control" to improve consumers scores.
 
This was successful until Ebonite introduced The One. The One, while a fantastic piece, wasn't a whole lot different in reaction than Brunswick releases. But about that time was when Brunswick announced the move to Mexico. So there was some fall out because of this. Plus, the first few releases from the new plant were, at best, hit & miss.

So it became "cool" to throw Ebonite through the introduction of the Total NV.

But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  

Roto-Grip knocked Hammer off its perch for a period of time last spring with the introduction of the Cell. But Hammer releases the Black Widow Venom and regained the top spot again.

I don't think it is so much lighting in a bottle. It comes down to what the consumers "believe" is good ball reaction for them. Ebonite/Hammer have done the best marketing the past few years and have gotten consumers to "believe" in their products.

The bowling ball market is very sickular. It is easier to get to the top than it is to stay there.

Reintroducing a product will give companies a quick, small spike. But marketing to consumers and pro shops and getting them to believe in your product is the key to increasing ball sales.

Ebonite & Hammer have done the best job the past few years, but don't expect that to last forever.

Sorry for the rant.

Verbs


--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: CharlieBrown on November 18, 2008, 08:05:21 AM
Verbs has described what I see in my area prefectly.

Way back when every Joes and Janes were thowing X-Factors, then Big B Infernos and Zones, then you got the No Mercy, NVs and Black Widows, and more recently Cells and Venoms.

!!!
--------------------
I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: on November 18, 2008, 08:29:54 AM
Well said Verbs.

I happen to be extremely happy with the Copperhead, Swarm, Maxxx, and Destruction, as well as some all time favorites such as the Absolute, Vapor, Fury Pearl, and Strike Zone.

The bowler has to decide whether "skid/snap on every ball" is really going to get him anywhere except king of the house shots. There is a lot to be said about midlane read with a controllable back end.


--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Amateur Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com

Edited on 11/18/2008 9:31 AM

Edited on 11/20/2008 9:45 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: dizzyfugu on November 18, 2008, 08:31:30 AM
quote:
There is a lot to be said about midlane read with a controllable back end.


Then big B better had kept the Smash Zone in a dark corner of their labs
--------------------
DizzyFugu (http://"http://www.putfile.com/dizzyfugu/") - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling?
Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom:  the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")

Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: MTD300 on November 18, 2008, 05:48:31 PM
quote:


But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  





Hi Larry, which ball(s) do you feel were close to reaction with the Original Black Widow in the Brunswick line?
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: kidlost2000 on November 18, 2008, 07:23:42 PM
I like some of the newer Brunswick stuff like the Ultra Zone and the Maxxx Zone which look like great bowling balls. I love the overseas stuff I was able to get(chance zone, solid zone, and kick zone along with many Revolutions) the Ultra and Maxxx zones look like they brought that look to their U.S. lineup along with the twisted series.

I don't care for the swarm and the copperhead they look iffy and will probably not have any follow ups. Can't blame them for the effort, sometimes you never know what might be popular.

What I can say is a HUGE NEGATIVE is the made in MEXICO stickers and product. They have had a lot of production problems from the beginning and I'm starting to see the results often and I don't even own a proshop.

A revolution ball that had a messed up label where the logo was a blob of scribble. Power Grooves with no cg marked, and others with three marked. A avalanche pearl with two cgs marked and a Fury Pearl with no MB marked.

That to me is horrible quality control and is not exceptable. That is where they need to focus their attention.
--------------------
" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 18, 2008, 08:08:26 PM
Back in the day, the Vapor Zone was very close to the original Black Widow. The Zone Classic was a better ball, to me, than the Black Widow Pearl. Especially when carrydown is present.

Before I get BBQ'd, this is just my opinion.

Verbs
quote:
quote:


But during this time, Hammer introduces the Black Widow. Again, a reaction not that dissimilar to The One or brunswick, but a great marketing campaign and good ball reaction for consumers have sold this ball. So it became "cool" to throw Hammer.  





Hi Larry, which ball(s) do you feel were close to reaction with the Original Black Widow in the Brunswick line?

--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: SleepOnIce on November 18, 2008, 08:27:26 PM
Nothing really to add to the overall topic but:

quote:
had a lot of problems with the no mercy series with severely mismarked mb markings
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGs6ULm2ZA8


The No Mercy series did not mark the Mass Bias, they had a HART mark that was some distance from the actual Mass Bias. The idea was to put this marking in the track for length and aggressive flip. It said this on the drill sheet and most boxes had a giant "STOP" sign on the top that warned about this.

Someone smarter than me can say how far the actual mass bias was from the HART mark. Also, if you already knew this, please disregard my post.
--------------------
BLARGH

Edited on 11/18/2008 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: kidlost2000 on November 18, 2008, 10:22:02 PM
I dont put that much into the MB. If the mb is in perfect line with the pin and cg on the ball then almost every pattern that would  put the mb to the right of the thumb(which is recommended, or at least use to be) for right handed bowlers is a type of leverage pattern.

You drill a ball like that over label or almost any pattern with the cg in the palm and the mb will be left of the thumb everytime and that is suppose to be bad????

Is the hart just another name for the mb, similar to the bomb or whatever hammer/faball called it on the wheel back in the day.
--------------------
" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 18, 2008, 11:01:59 PM
Speaking of back in the 90's, my favorite line of balls were the Quantums. Beginning with the Forest Green, that is all I owned plus 2-3 Columbia's that I didn't much care for. I liked almost all of them except the Quantum Leap and the Quantum Helix. Back in the 80's & 90's, I was almost totally dedicated to Brunswick, but then began drifting away when AMF came out with the Angle Evolution line of balls and Storm the Trauma line of balls and the Triple x, Triple X Extreme, and etc. Since then, it has been a bit of everything.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: tizzle on November 18, 2008, 11:33:44 PM
Proactive Zone anyone, I need a replacement to that ball!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: SleepOnIce on November 19, 2008, 07:24:03 AM
quote:
disregarded



sorry the hart anyway the markings for the hart were up above the pin and the cg below sorry should have explained more I know when you say something that possibly could be wrong you get ten people jumping down your throat luckily I explained my self before the rest came to the party
--------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGs6ULm2ZA8

Edited on 11/19/2008 4:59 AM


Ah alright, sorry I misunderstood you.
--------------------
BLARGH
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: MTD300 on November 19, 2008, 09:12:00 AM
I think the Brunswick stuff is great, but no ball in the whole line compares to the original Black Widow. The Vapor Zone was good but NOTHING compares to the Black Widow. Brunswick has been behind the competition with the last few releases....the Brunswick stuff is by hard the hardest to push. The new Destruction and MaxxX Zone will sell themselves just by shelf appeal and the hype they have, I'm already on backorder for the MaxxX Zone.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: HamPster on November 19, 2008, 06:59:26 PM
Brunswick stuff is largely misunderstood . .  The typical league bowler likes to see a ball fly down the lane and flip hard on the back.  Brunswick stuff doesn't do that.  However, when the lanes go to trash, and other companies either leave you going brooklyn or with washouts, Brunswick will keep you in the pocket.  Brunswick, I believe, is all about control.  Brunswick balls if ever, are rarely hard to control.  If I ever went somewhere and had no clue what the shot was gonna be like, I'd want a Brunswick ball.  Brunswick may not fit everyone's game, but unless I'm mistaken, I believe there's been at least one Brunswick staffer on every tv show so far this year, with a win to boot.  I think they've had several "it" balls, but for some reason they've gone unnoticed.  Balls like the Blast Zone, Ultra Zone, and especially Twisted Fury . .  My Blast is incredible, I haven't found a shot yet that it won't match up with.  I have no idea why the original Fury wasn't more popular . . it's rarely been out of my bag since I got it.
--------------------
This is Fluffy.  He is the Destroyer of Worlds.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: BrunsBob on November 20, 2008, 07:15:32 AM
I will not comment too much on the quality concerns other than that every company has issues, ours are just magnified by many because of our move to Mexico. We have addressed every issue that occurs and either eliminated the problem or reduced the percentage of mishaps. In this type of production it is impossible to eliminate flaws, you can only hope to reduce and control them as best as possible. It will continue to be an ongoing issue for all ball companies. Keep in mind, were not producing the same products over and over and over. Everytime we introduce a new ball it comes with new production procedures and effects that have to be adjusted too. Most balls, with success, are only produced on about 3 runs, then it's on to the next new ball. Hard to perfect anything in this type of environment, you can only hope to minimize the hiccups.

With that being said, there are many "good" balls on the market. Most "good" balls are usually "conditional" type balls, looking their best when used on the proper conditions. What makes a ball great, in my opinion as a bowler and long time shop owner, comes with many factors that all fall into place. It must be driller friendly, meaning that it's not a guessing game as to what the ball will most likely do for each and every bowler. It must have a cover that is easily tweakable in order to completely match the ball to the bowler and still not change it's intended characteristics. It must have good ball life with less need for ball maintenance. And, believe it or not, it must be good looking and have a good name. Oh yeah, and it must be good for almost every type of game and usuable on multiple lane conditions. Of course, no one ball will be awesome in oil and great on dry, but when you can take one ball and make it, say, great on oil and very usable on medium, then you've done something.

Well, we did something. We did the MAXXX ZONE. This is, in my opinion, the best ball we've made since the aforementioned Absolute Inferno. I honestly believe I can put this ball in 95% of bowlers hands on 75% of lane conditions. The Twisted Fury Destruction is good, but when used as a strong skid/flip ball, not a heavy oil ball. The Avalanche Slide is a good ball, but only when used on medium to dry conditions that don't see a lot of carrydown. Like I said, every company has their really good balls, as do we when bowlers use them on the right conditions that the ball is meant for. But, if you need that one ball to really widen your eyes, it's the MAXXX.

Believe me folks, as hard as some of you guys are on us about quality, we come down even harder on our ball plant in an effort to continue to improve. If you think for one minute that we ignore these issues, you're greatly mistaken. If you think we deny having these flaws, again, you're wrong. But, are we getting better, you bet your butt we are. And, it's never ending. Each new ball has it's own challenges. I was amazed the first time I saw what went into producing a bowling ball. I, too, used to think..."How hard could it be". LOL. You'd be shocked out how hard it actually is. But, that's part of the challenge of being in the bowling ball business, and we're in it for the long run, longer than anyone in the business by far.

Thanks to all of those who love our products. Thanks to all of those who have at least tried our products. And even thanks go to all of those that keep us on our toes. Just don't hate. Really. It's bowling balls we're talking about, not life and death. This game is meant to be fun, and the balls we use to play it are just part of the joy and excitement. Don't let the balls, the lane conditions, or your counterparts take away from loving this game. Always try to find a way to enjoy each outing on the lanes. AND, spread the word about bowling. Let's not hang it out to dry, let's all do our part to repair it and bring it back to a healthy life. We wouldn't be on these forums if we didn't like the game.

Okay, that's all. I'll step off the box. LOL

RoB LaW
--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: CharlieBrown on November 20, 2008, 08:20:04 AM
*claps*

Standing O.


--------------------
I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: don coyote on November 20, 2008, 08:34:26 AM
Prime Zone-Overseas Absolute Inferno
Vapor Zone
Red Zone
Total Inferno
Blue Alien-BRUNSWICK PORED
Ambush
Twisted Fury
Ultra Zone
These are ALL NIB.
     
        I agree with you. I for ever reason scored better with activator covers. Even MORE with activator+. The twisted and ultra are the EXCEPTIONS. I despise the new covers starting with ebonites the one. They absorb oil way to fast, and it has continued over to the hammers and most others, with the exception of LANE MASTER, AND VISIONARY. I have 5 LANEMASTERS, (Conqueror, World Class Particle, Yeah Baby, Bullet and XXXL), 3 VISIONARY, (Granite Gargoyle, Violet Gargoyle-NIB, and Green Gargoyle-NIB). Storm has kinda lost me ever since the whole ball cracking away from the fingers episode.

     I don't see the trend changing any time soon. The new balls are so strong the ball manufacturers have resorted to ALMOST all companies have gone to drillings with the pins very close to the VERTICAL grip line.

     I am not a ball expert, I just know what works for me. I am more inconsistent with the big hooking balls. The BIG hook is sexier, but I score better and more consistent with OLDER less aggressive balls.

     I still have a TRAUMA ER I love to use in the new fall leagues. When the lanes are inconsistent because of the rapid weather changes with humidity being foremost in my mind. I have heard the lane machine guy say it's not possible to see the change in the oil, I strongly disagree, why do the 2 end pairs of lanes leave the least consistent scores. I believe it the cold and humidity. I may be way off board here. That is what I see with my end of league, lane average sheet. (I have shot a 300 and 795 on 1 and 2), that is the exception.
   These are just things I have noticed.


THESE ARE THE RANTS OF A RANDOM, VERY CLUTTERED MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited on 11/20/2008 4:41 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: los2003 on November 20, 2008, 08:39:57 AM
I know this is off topic but people praise the original blck widow but it had the exact same ball reaction as the big blue for me. the big blue or pearl just was not marketed almost at all. it was virually the same gas mask core
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 20, 2008, 10:48:25 AM
WOW!!!!! Brunsbob, what a great statement!!!!

How do you have time to think and write all of that with everything on your plate currently.

Give me a shout sometime.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Doug Sterner on November 20, 2008, 10:40:58 PM
The Copperhead is about the best Brunswick ball I have seen in awhile.

I personally love my Blast Zone but it's discontinued!!!! I picked up a used Ultra to try out but we'll see.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: TheDude on November 21, 2008, 08:03:48 AM
A remake or private pour much like the ultimate inferno would be good. AMF had no problems doing it with the TNT. Ebonite re-released the one, and storm's T roads are updated from there 90s release.

andrew, early, and steve are doing it. why cant bob release a gaurenteed home run?
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
Located inside Ed's Rec Room.(WEST ED MALL)
King Of Roto-Grip In Canada.
Keep them honest!


www.juniorsproshop.com now open serving the world.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: JustRico on November 21, 2008, 08:56:36 AM
Timothy

Do you realize what goes into being/making a homerun ball?

The amount of 'right' things are somewhat astronomical.

Why was the Danger Zone a homerun? Was it because it was black? Was it because it had the 'Z' on both sides, making it appear like it revved more, going down the lane? Was it because WRW won 6 times in one year using it?

Why was the Absolute Inferno a success? Versatility? Reaction? Again color?

Why did the Cell solid sell so many units? Dark color? Strong hooking ball? Numerous TV shows?

What made the Widow series so hot? Again dark colors? Strong reaction down lane?

I have been involved in numerous ball tests, as well as demoes of many of these balls, side by side and PERCEPTION is HUGE and sometimes bigger than reality in reaction perception. You would be surprised at how close, balls react to each other, especially on house conditions, which is where 90% of these balls are used, as well as SOLD.

SO what makes a ball better than another...bowler's PERCEPTION, as well as the pro shop operators.

So again, how do you not know that a certain ball is not a homerun...already? Hype creates so much of a ball's success.

And who are Andrew, Early or Steve?
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: CharlieBrown on November 21, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
quote:

And who are Andrew, Early or Steve?



AMF, Ebonite and Storm. But yeah, who ARE they?  
--------------------
I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: JustRico on November 21, 2008, 10:03:25 AM
If you mean designers, Ebonite is Ron Hickland, Storm is now Doene Moos and I am not sure who AMF is.

Do you really think that the designers are the ones, that create 'lightning in a bottle' when it comes to a homerun ball?

Or is it marketing, hype, color or reaction? Or again perception?
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: BeansProShop on November 21, 2008, 12:55:20 PM
Very,very well put Ric..

Or is it static weight?

Seriously though...
Well said. It is hard to explain that sometimes..

Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
 Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: JustRico on November 21, 2008, 02:57:23 PM
The thing to remember is that everything is cyclical, especially in bowling balls. As a wise man once told me, in regards to slumps and as bowling is concerned, is that you just want to bowl well between the slumps. Bowling balls are the same way. You want to ride the wave as long as you can. The last run that Brunswick had was a pretty good one. It started with the Original Inferno and ran through the Vapor Zone. Right now Hammer is on top, overall-4 Widows is a good run. It is amazing how many Cell solids were sold-AMAZING in regards to todays numbers. And, possibly, if it were not for the Cell, Storm may been a lot worse off. Every company has their turn. And again you just try to not be on the bottom too long, look what happened to Columbia. The EPX killed them.

A lot of times, those that pile on a company, usually, for whatever reason, have an ax to grind and do whatever they can to grind it. But as Robert posted, which was told to us by our original boss, IT'S ONLY BOWLING BALLS. We are not curing Cancer for gawd's sake.

The Destruction, Maxxx and Slide are 2 reactions that you will not find in other Brunswick bowling balls. The Maxxx does have the potential, with surface alterations to being a phenomenal bowling ball, reaction wise. It is just a matter if the consumers will allow it to be.

Again reaction and perception is in the eye of the beholder, as well as sales. And lightning is the same and can be different depending on where you reside, even in Canada!

Sorry for the rants, just some idle thoughts.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 21, 2008, 03:22:32 PM
quote:
Very,very well put Ric..

Or is it static weight?

Seriously though...
Well said. It is hard to explain that sometimes..

Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
 Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!



Cut it out Beans!!!

Seriously, the Maxx Zone reminds me of when the original Inferno was introduced. The original Inferno was/is a great reacting ball, but it went through the pins differently than previous Brunswick balls. I see the same thing out of the Maxx Zone when used & surfaced properly.

MTD300, I will take exception to your statement that NOTHING compared/s to the Black Widow. While I respect you are entitled to your opinion, and the BW is a great ball, I really feel that the Vapor Zone is as good, if not superior, and longer lasting reactionwise as the Black Widow, in a side by side comparison.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Mike Austin on November 21, 2008, 09:55:05 PM
Brunsbob, Rico, Verbs,

You guys got it right on, can't really expand on the topic other than, I think the rolly Brunswick reaction helps the AVERAGE league bowler more than some of the other companies.  MOST league bowlers don't have a lot of hand and/or high ball speed, B's balls rev up earlier and help those types of bowlers.  Most of the readers of this site are NOT the average league bowler.

When I had my shop, I tried EVERYBODY'S bowling balls, I wanted to be well informed, so that I could best help my customers.  But for my personal bowling balls when not on staff with Storm, I fell back on Brunswick and Storm.  There just wasn't a lane condition that I couldn't conquer with a ball from one of these companies.  If I couldn't, most likely nobody else was either.  As far as the topic and Brunswick, I don't think there was one ball after the Original Inferno that I didn't like.  Some more than others, but I could fill out my regional arsenal with Brunswick balls and have no holes.  Thanks to Brunsbob and the Pro Source program, I did!!  Sure, I had a Black Widow (2), The One, Infinite One..... but mostly Brunswick and Storm.  When you take 15-20 balls to a regional, you can have a bunch!!  LOL!!

Sitting in my garage right now I have two Strike Zones, Avalanche solid, Blast Zone that I got off Ebay, and need to reslug the thumbs, love my Brunswick pills.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 25, 2008, 10:27:18 AM
Don't have any problems with the Twisted Fury Sold or the Destruction,  and the new Maxxx zone looks good.  However the price of the Maxxx zone online is lower then what some pro shops pay for the ball.

It seems that Brunswick has decided not to follow the good lead of Ebonite.

Now since others have brought up the good sales of the Cell, as well as the Cell pearl.  May I point out that the Cells and the Maxxx zones sell to the pro shops for about the same price.  Yet the Cells online are about $12-$15 higher then what one can buy a Maxxx Zone for.

So it would not surprise me one bit to see strong sales in the pro shops on the Cell and Cell Pearls, compared to the Maxxx zone.  Notice that I did not even bother to bring up the Smash or Ultra Zones.  

However the new Maxxx looks good. We have sold a few so far.  Waiting to see what kind of feedback we get on the ball.  But so far,  it to me, looks like a winner.

Of course it would be nice if Brunswick would take care of pro shops the way EBONITE does.   Oh,  but that would take guts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess if your selling private label balls to certain online dealers, then you can't do that>>>  take care of pro shops with fair pricing the way Ebonite does.  

BTW,  since others brought up the stong sales of the Cell,  Look out for the Virtual Gravity.  This ball is going to be a major winner!!!!!   oops
--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/25/2008 11:41 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jbuzz31 on November 25, 2008, 10:46:15 AM
quote:
Prime Zone-Overseas Absolute Inferno
Vapor Zone
Red Zone
Total Inferno
Blue Alien-BRUNSWICK PORED
Ambush
Twisted Fury
Ultra Zone
These are ALL NIB.
     
        I agree with you. I for ever reason scored better with activator covers. Even MORE with activator+. The twisted and ultra are the EXCEPTIONS. I despise the new covers starting with ebonites the one. They absorb oil way to fast, and it has continued over to the hammers and most others, with the exception of LANE MASTER, AND VISIONARY. I have 5 LANEMASTERS, (Conqueror, World Class Particle, Yeah Baby, Bullet and XXXL), 3 VISIONARY, (Granite Gargoyle, Violet Gargoyle-NIB, and Green Gargoyle-NIB). Storm has kinda lost me ever since the whole ball cracking away from the fingers episode.

     I don't see the trend changing any time soon. The new balls are so strong the ball manufacturers have resorted to ALMOST all companies have gone to drillings with the pins very close to the VERTICAL grip line.

     I am not a ball expert, I just know what works for me. I am more inconsistent with the big hooking balls. The BIG hook is sexier, but I score better and more consistent with OLDER less aggressive balls.

     I still have a TRAUMA ER I love to use in the new fall leagues. When the lanes are inconsistent because of the rapid weather changes with humidity being foremost in my mind. I have heard the lane machine guy say it's not possible to see the change in the oil, I strongly disagree, why do the 2 end pairs of lanes leave the least consistent scores. I believe it the cold and humidity. I may be way off board here. That is what I see with my end of league, lane average sheet. (I have shot a 300 and 795 on 1 and 2), that is the exception.
   These are just things I have noticed.


THESE ARE THE RANTS OF A RANDOM, VERY CLUTTERED MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited on 11/20/2008 4:41 PM



uh the bullet and XXXL are lane 1 not lane masters
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 25, 2008, 10:59:28 AM
quote:
quote:
Prime Zone-Overseas Absolute Inferno
Vapor Zone
Red Zone
Total Inferno
Blue Alien-BRUNSWICK PORED
Ambush
Twisted Fury
Ultra Zone
These are ALL NIB.
     
        I agree with you. I for ever reason scored better with activator covers. Even MORE with activator+. The twisted and ultra are the EXCEPTIONS. I despise the new covers starting with ebonites the one. They absorb oil way to fast, and it has continued over to the hammers and most others, with the exception of LANE MASTER, AND VISIONARY. I have 5 LANEMASTERS, (Conqueror, World Class Particle, Yeah Baby, Bullet and XXXL), 3 VISIONARY, (Granite Gargoyle, Violet Gargoyle-NIB, and Green Gargoyle-NIB). Storm has kinda lost me ever since the whole ball cracking away from the fingers episode.

     I don't see the trend changing any time soon. The new balls are so strong the ball manufacturers have resorted to ALMOST all companies have gone to drillings with the pins very close to the VERTICAL grip line.

     I am not a ball expert, I just know what works for me. I am more inconsistent with the big hooking balls. The BIG hook is sexier, but I score better and more consistent with OLDER less aggressive balls.

     I still have a TRAUMA ER I love to use in the new fall leagues. When the lanes are inconsistent because of the rapid weather changes with humidity being foremost in my mind. I have heard the lane machine guy say it's not possible to see the change in the oil, I strongly disagree, why do the 2 end pairs of lanes leave the least consistent scores. I believe it the cold and humidity. I may be way off board here. That is what I see with my end of league, lane average sheet. (I have shot a 300 and 795 on 1 and 2), that is the exception.
   These are just things I have noticed.


THESE ARE THE RANTS OF A RANDOM, VERY CLUTTERED MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited on 11/20/2008 4:41 PM



uh the bullet and XXXL are lane 1 not lane masters
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason




"uh the bullet and the xxxl are lane 1 not lane masters"

The XXXL is plastic!!!!!  Wow a plastic ball that does not soak up oil!!!!

How did they do that,  make a plastic ball that does not soak up oil?
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: BrunsBob on November 25, 2008, 09:40:38 PM
jls, If you only knew how false your statements are about Ebonite protecting pro shops with pricing. There is not one company out there that is maintaining a minimum selling price restriction. Not one. Feel free to give distributors around the country a call and get their opinion on the subject.

I'm not trying to call you out or start any argument about this. I just know the facts about the pricing and that there is not a single ball company out there that is sticking to a minimum pricing. I will not go into detail on here because it does no good, but take the time to give the distributors a call and ask about it.

Believe me, being a shop owner myself, I can't stand the pricing I see on the internet sites, but it is not controlled by the ball companies. We all sell to distributors at set prices, what they turn around and sell it for is their option. A few distributors have ongoing arangements with the major internet sites that gives them this advantage.

Hope your shop has a great Holiday season.

Regards,

 RoB LaW

--------------------
I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Slumpbuster on November 25, 2008, 09:47:20 PM
Are you on CRACK??!! Have you seen the price of NV series lately?? How about all other brands comming from the big E?? You really think it is protecting pro shops when the lady I go to says that as soon as they take a ball of their minimum wholesale list, that they can sell it to whoever (bowlingball.com) for how ever much, or little (under 100$) they want. Is that protecting the proshops that bought them for around the 120 they cost a month ago? If thats what you consider taking care, then i guess you are correct. I will agree that big B started that crap, but at least they never put out a fake price list that they can change at anytime.
quote:

Of course it would be nice if Brunswick would take care of pro shops the way EBONITE does.   Oh,  but that would take guts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess if your selling private label balls to certain online dealers, then you can't do that>>>  take care of pro shops with fair pricing the way Ebonite does.  

--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/25/2008 11:41 AM



--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 08:52:08 AM
quote:
Are you on CRACK??!! Have you seen the price of NV series lately?? How about all other brands comming from the big E?? You really think it is protecting pro shops when the lady I go to says that as soon as they take a ball of their minimum wholesale list, that they can sell it to whoever (bowlingball.com) for how ever much, or little (under 100$) they want. Is that protecting the proshops that bought them for around the 120 they cost a month ago? If thats what you consider taking care, then i guess you are correct. I will agree that big B started that crap, but at least they never put out a fake price list that they can change at anytime.
quote:

Of course it would be nice if Brunswick would take care of pro shops the way EBONITE does.   Oh,  but that would take guts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess if your selling private label balls to certain online dealers, then you can't do that>>>  take care of pro shops with fair pricing the way Ebonite does.  

--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/25/2008 11:41 AM



--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!



I think you are talking about discontinued balls.  Ebonite lowers the floor pricing on those models.  However all one has to do is look at the prices online on CURRENT models.  I don't see any of them selling online for less then what a pro shop pays for them.  <<< From Ebonite.

HOWEVER, the Maxxx Zone is a NEW release and it is selling for less online then what pro shops pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe Brunswick's little buddies on the bowl.com are selling it for $107.99.   I pay $108.40.  SO I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANY OF YOUR BRUNSWICK B.S. ABOUT HOW EBONITE ISN'T DOING WHAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO.

Check out the CURRENT prices on balls like Black Widows, the Sauce, Striking Motion,  none of these are selling for less then what a pro shop pays!!!!!!!

This clown who brought up the NV series.  Are you kidding me????  They are older then McCain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They are discontinued.  Most Smart shops have long ago, cleared them out.  So if you still have them in stock and are selling them for $229, your an idiot!!!!! We have not had them balls in stock for months!!!!!

Now I will say that the price of the Twisted Fury's online is decent,  not footballed,>>>> yet!!!!

But your stupud talk about how Ebonite is not doing what they say, is just that.

All one has to do is go online and check out their NEW models.  And the prices are NOT BELOW PRO SHOP COST>>>>> like the MAXXX ZOne is!!!!!!!!!!!!

now

are we clear

"on crack"  >>> what an idiot
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 26, 2008, 09:25:58 AM
jls,

I work for a MAJOR distributor in eastern part of the U.S.

What BrunsBob is saying is true. Ebonite "removed" the NVD (plus The One), which was released just this past summer, from their "minimum wholesale price" restriction within the last month. Which pretty much turns that into a discontinued ball.

I can assure you that Brunswick DOES NOT sell in-line, first quality product to internet sites. What your seeing from Bowl.com is their buying power through distributors.

I would be curious to ask what you are paying for NVD's now?

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 10:19:32 AM
quote:
jls,

I work for a MAJOR distributor in eastern part of the U.S.

What BrunsBob is saying is true. Ebonite "removed" the NVD (plus The One), which was released just this past summer, from their "minimum wholesale price" restriction within the last month. Which pretty much turns that into a discontinued ball.

I can assure you that Brunswick DOES NOT sell in-line, first quality product to internet sites. What your seeing from Bowl.com is their buying power through distributors.

I would be curious to ask what you are paying for NVD's now?

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  did you even bother to read my post?  I said very clearly that Ebonite
removes discontinued balls from their floor pricing list.  The NVD's  and that whole series of NV's are dead in the water.  And the One was a total flop.  So yes those balls have been removed from their list.  MY point is CURRENT balls.
We can't expect a ball maker never to reduce a ball.  May I remind you of the Fury last Oct of 07.  $99 online.  And Brunswick did not even have a replacement ball out.  The Twisted Fury Solid did not come out for almost 9 months after the Fury closeout!!!!!

Now most companies have a new model ready before they closeout their only oil ball in that line. { Fury line }  I don't want to hear about the Blast Zone!!!
So Larry you can pick at Ebonite all you want.  But they are and have helped pro shops.  And I don't care a rats butt what you, an east coast dist. who probably supplies online dealers, thinks or says.

are we clear now
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: sdbowler on November 26, 2008, 10:35:54 AM
I remember when I was running a center back in Sioux Falls and ordering items for the pro shop. The company that I would do the bulk of my ordering from give discounts the more you bought from them. When I left a few years ago we were able to buy our equipment at a lower price then what the public could buy online. Maybe JLS you need to get a different distributor. If your prices are that high from them I think you need to look around. I don't know how many places you get from but man I think you are getting hosed. I am not defending Brunswick or Ebonite. The price bickering has been going on for along time. The whole Ebonite pricing scale is still pretty new I think we need to allow some more time to pass before we all pass judgement on it. I guess I still think it is funny that everyone will jump on Brunswick for their prices but won't say anything about other companies.
--------------------
Kyle
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Slumpbuster on November 26, 2008, 11:11:59 AM

quote:
quote:
Are you on CRACK??!! Have you seen the price of NV series lately?? How about all other brands comming from the big E?? You really think it is protecting pro shops when the lady I go to says that as soon as they take a ball of their minimum wholesale list, that they can sell it to whoever (bowlingball.com) for how ever much, or little (under 100$) they want. Is that protecting the proshops that bought them for around the 120 they cost a month ago? If thats what you consider taking care, then i guess you are correct. I will agree that big B started that crap, but at least they never put out a fake price list that they can change at anytime.
quote:

Of course it would be nice if Brunswick would take care of pro shops the way EBONITE does.   Oh,  but that would take guts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess if your selling private label balls to certain online dealers, then you can't do that>>>  take care of pro shops with fair pricing the way Ebonite does.  

--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/25/2008 11:41 AM



--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!



I think you are talking about discontinued balls.  Ebonite lowers the floor pricing on those models.  However all one has to do is look at the prices online on CURRENT models.  I don't see any of them selling online for less then what a pro shop pays for them.  <<< From Ebonite.

HOWEVER, the Maxxx Zone is a NEW release and it is selling for less online then what pro shops pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe Brunswick's little buddies on the bowl.com are selling it for $107.99.   I pay $108.40.  SO I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANY OF YOUR BRUNSWICK B.S. ABOUT HOW EBONITE ISN'T DOING WHAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO.

Check out the CURRENT prices on balls like Black Widows, the Sauce, Striking Motion,  none of these are selling for less then what a pro shop pays!!!!!!!

This clown who brought up the NV series.  Are you kidding me????  They are older then McCain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They are discontinued.  Most Smart shops have long ago, cleared them out.  So if you still have them in stock and are selling them for $229, your an idiot!!!!! We have not had them balls in stock for months!!!!!

Now I will say that the price of the Twisted Fury's online is decent,  not footballed,>>>> yet!!!!

But your stupud talk about how Ebonite is not doing what they say, is just that.

All one has to do is go online and check out their NEW models.  And the prices are NOT BELOW PRO SHOP COST>>>>> like the MAXXX ZOne is!!!!!!!!!!!!

now

are we clear

"on crack"  >>> what an idiot
--------------------
jls


YOU are the idiot!!! What does it matter if they're still selling cheaper online, when at the snap of their fingers (like the NVD) they can remove it and SCREW shops that bought into packages. They give you the false notion of protection on their "current line" but what about shops that stocked up on product like an nvd or like the one, and are now stuck with them? A rant like yours is NOT being fair. Ebonite is doing what Brunswick is doing, just being sneaky about it. Yes the fury's have been a disaster, as far as online pricing but that's the reputation they have, so it has shied pro shops away from buying large # of these balls. Ebonite gives you the fake protection that you can stock up and wont be undercut, until l you order 2 cases of NVDs for around 120 a pop and now people can get them online for under 100. Its the SAME THING! Lets take the new striking motion, buy 2 cases of them, and in 2 days/weeks/months whos to say that ebonite wont say "well, this isn't doing what we wanted it to, lets kill it" and they pop up for 99 shipped on bowlingball.com ?? Maybe if you're only carrying product from KY, but what about shops that carry more than that company? How about not carrying either?
--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: pinspeaker on November 26, 2008, 11:22:52 AM
So how come you don't use the internet sites as your distributor if their prices are so much cheaper than your regular distributor?  Just wondering.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 11:24:39 AM
quote:
I remember when I was running a center back in Sioux Falls and ordering items for the pro shop. The company that I would do the bulk of my ordering from give discounts the more you bought from them. When I left a few years ago we were able to buy our equipment at a lower price then what the public could buy online. Maybe JLS you need to get a different distributor. If your prices are that high from them I think you need to look around. I don't know how many places you get from but man I think you are getting hosed. I am not defending Brunswick or Ebonite. The price bickering has been going on for along time. The whole Ebonite pricing scale is still pretty new I think we need to allow some more time to pass before we all pass judgement on it. I guess I still think it is funny that everyone will jump on Brunswick for their prices but won't say anything about other companies.
--------------------
Kyle



Sod,  My dist. probably has the lowest prices in the country.  I buy at their gold level, which is their lowest prices.  Plus my dist.  does not sell to online dealers!!!!!!

I would put their prices and service and inventory up against anyone in the business.  

You are not talking to some idiot who just started in the business.  I have been doing this for well over three weeks now!!!!!

Again,  all one has to do is go to any online dealers site.  And check out the prices on Ebonites New Current balls.   They are not footballed!!!!!

But as I have said,  the NV line and the One have been DQ.  And they have been removed from the floor pricing policy.

But the Maxx Zone is a brand new release, and it is selling for $107.99, and that sir is lower then most dist. sell the ball for to pro shops.

Find a dist. that is selling a Maxx zone for less then that.

I don't think so "Tim"

As I pointed out,  the Maxxx zone is in the same price range as a Venom or Cell Pearl,  yet they sell for about $10- $12 higher online!!!!!


Brunswick likes to talk the talk about helping pro shops, they just don't walk the walk.

And if you or anyone else at "taco city"  don't like that,  well that is just too bad.

BTW,  they moved to Mexico to lower their cost.  Yet their prices on balls have not gone down.  

So they moved, cut their cost and did nothing to reduce the cost of their balls.

Nice, nice, very nice.

Customers always ask, "why is there a sticker on their balls that says, made in Mexico"  well now, could that be, because they forgot to engrave on the balls, where they are made?  And got caught by the Feds????

Was Big B ashammed that their balls are made in Mexico, was that the reason that so many of them now need little stickers on them saying,  "made in Mexico"

Ebonite does not have that problem, their balls say "made in the USA"
or "Made in China"

But lets knock Ebonite because they have floor pricing to try and help pro shops!!!!!
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 11:28:47 AM
quote:
So how come you don't use the internet sites as your distributor if their prices are so much cheaper than your regular distributor?  Just wondering.



I didn't say on all items,  just some items made by Brunswick!!!!!!!

And I didn't say I was having trouble selling the Maxxx zone,  Sold 3 since Friday.  $189 fitted and drilled,  plus a car wash.

Plus if I was to buy off the online dealers as you say,  the balls would not be covered by many dist.  You have to buy a ball from a dist. to have it warantied by them.  So if a customer had a problem with a defective ball, I could not send it back to my dist.
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 11:39:56 AM
Hey Slumpbuster,  If you got caught with NVD's, your an idiot.  That ball and that whole line never sold well.  So if you over bought, your an idiot.

We didn't over buy,  and we had enough notice that the ball was going to be removed.  

May I remind you of the Fury, it was DQ WITHOUT a replacement ball even do out.
It sold for $99 online, so you Brunswick people have no reason to knock Ebonite for reducing a ball.  At least they do it while bringing out a new model,  and unless you live in a cave,  you would know about the new release as well as the DQ models.  Also I receive info from them stating the ball is being DQ and removed from floor pricing.
The Twistted Fury Solid did not come ot for almost 9 months after the Fury's were dumped online!!!!!!!

And why were they dumped????

Was it because some of Big B's dist. got caught with too many in stock and could not PAY THEIR BILL to the Big B?????????  Because they bought too many for their online dealers, and they didn't sell????

Could that be the reason????????????

Now go buy a taco.
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 12:08:53 PM
jls if you are paying $108+ for a MaxxX Zone from your distributor there is no way they are the lowest in the country.  If you are ordering one at a time then that's your own fault for paying that much, because I know some of the distributors where offering some pretty nice packages for the newer Brunswick realeases, includeing the MaxxX, Destruction, Swarm, Copperhead, and Slide.  And besides, why sit here an complain that you are paying $108 for a MaxxX from the Distributor when YOU can go online and get on in the shop for $107???

Stop you whining about the pricing and only post again if it actually has something to do with the ORIGINAL POST.  

TheDude, I'm with you on the absolute, i thought it was a great ball, and although i never had a classic, i did see alot of people throw it and really liked what i saw out of it.  But the Vapor i think is lightyears better than the absolute.  Same cover and in my opinion held up a lot better.  

I think Brunswick is trying to get back to the Inferno reaction a little with the release of the Smash Zone, and they are working on newer covers to create an edge.  As good as the Activator cover was, in the high performance market, other companies caught up, so they need to try new things to get back ahead.  
And JustRico is right on with the 3 new Big B pieces, they are a definite different look to the Brunswick line, still have to same heavy roll characterstics but the coverstocks just read the lane so much truer than anything I've seen. By this i mean you won't get the over-exaggerated squirt in oil or jump off friction.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: sdbowler on November 26, 2008, 12:10:28 PM
JLS I was just pointing out what my experience had been. Yeah there will always be a ball here there that is as you say. But many you are able to get cheaper then what it is being sold online for. Now as I stated in my previous post I am not defending EITHER Brunswick or Ebonite. I am in no position to say who is doing right and who is doing wrong. From what I have seen BOTH companies are doing very well. The price thing with Ebonite as I stated is still a work in progress. Will it be something that all companies follow at some point possibly. Will it be something that falls apart possibly. In time we will know what they will do. To jump and say Ebonite is right and all others are wrong for not following is a little rash at this point.
--------------------
Kyle
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 02:24:22 PM
quote:
jls if you are paying $108+ for a MaxxX Zone from your distributor there is no way they are the lowest in the country.  If you are ordering one at a time then that's your own fault for paying that much, because I know some of the distributors where offering some pretty nice packages for the newer Brunswick realeases, includeing the MaxxX, Destruction, Swarm, Copperhead, and Slide.  And besides, why sit here an complain that you are paying $108 for a MaxxX from the Distributor when YOU can go online and get on in the shop for $107???

Stop you whining about the pricing and only post again if it actually has something to do with the ORIGINAL POST.  

TheDude, I'm with you on the absolute, i thought it was a great ball, and although i never had a classic, i did see alot of people throw it and really liked what i saw out of it.  But the Vapor i think is lightyears better than the absolute.  Same cover and in my opinion held up a lot better.  

I think Brunswick is trying to get back to the Inferno reaction a little with the release of the Smash Zone, and they are working on newer covers to create an edge.  As good as the Activator cover was, in the high performance market, other companies caught up, so they need to try new things to get back ahead.  
And JustRico is right on with the 3 new Big B pieces, they are a definite different look to the Brunswick line, still have to same heavy roll characterstics but the coverstocks just read the lane so much truer than anything I've seen. By this i mean you won't get the over-exaggerated squirt in oil or jump off friction.



OH PLEASE get a life,  that is a one time package offer,  big deal you get $65 back.

Now oh wise one,  you tell me who is selling the Maxxx Zone cheaper.
You talk stupid talk, that package is a one time offer.

Now list the dist, that you think are selling it for less.

Buy one ball at a time!!!!  Your an idiot.

Now go eat at taco city and then get back to me with all of those dist. you claim are selling the Maxx Zone for less.  After the one time package deal.

What an idiot.  

To quote the famous words of Eddie Murphy in 48 hours, "you have a job, your too stupid to have a job"


Package deal  LIMIT ONE< expires  12/12/08

Don't talk if you don't know WTF you are talking about you Big B brown nose!!!

Let me guess, your a converted broom closet in a bowling alley and now you call yourself a pro shop.


--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 02:31:00 PM
quote:
JLS I was just pointing out what my experience had been. Yeah there will always be a ball here there that is as you say. But many you are able to get cheaper then what it is being sold online for. Now as I stated in my previous post I am not defending EITHER Brunswick or Ebonite. I am in no position to say who is doing right and who is doing wrong. From what I have seen BOTH companies are doing very well. The price thing with Ebonite as I stated is still a work in progress. Will it be something that all companies follow at some point possibly. Will it be something that falls apart possibly. In time we will know what they will do. To jump and say Ebonite is right and all others are wrong for not following is a little rash at this point.
--------------------
Kyle



Not saying it is right or wrong,  saying that at least Ebonite has the f-ing you know whats to stand up to certain dist.  and help pro shops.

Now when you say they are both doing well!!!!

Are you f-ing kidding me.

The whole f-ing industry is hurting. No one is doing well.

Do you read the papers/  The ecomomy is in the toilet.  And no bowling ball company is kicking butt.  Maybe Global is doing ok,  but I know of none that are busting any sales records.

Just ask your boys at Brunswick if any dist. own them money?????

See if you can get an answer.


Doing well.
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 03:32:09 PM
quote:
jls if you are paying $108+ for a MaxxX Zone from your distributor there is no way they are the lowest in the country.  If you are ordering one at a time then that's your own fault for paying that much, because I know some of the distributors where offering some pretty nice packages for the newer Brunswick realeases, includeing the MaxxX, Destruction, Swarm, Copperhead, and Slide.  And besides, why sit here an complain that you are paying $108 for a MaxxX from the Distributor when YOU can go online and get on in the shop for $107???

Stop you whining about the pricing and only post again if it actually has something to do with the ORIGINAL POST.  

TheDude, I'm with you on the absolute, i thought it was a great ball, and although i never had a classic, i did see alot of people throw it and really liked what i saw out of it.  But the Vapor i think is lightyears better than the absolute.  Same cover and in my opinion held up a lot better.  

I think Brunswick is trying to get back to the Inferno reaction a little with the release of the Smash Zone, and they are working on newer covers to create an edge.  As good as the Activator cover was, in the high performance market, other companies caught up, so they need to try new things to get back ahead.  
And JustRico is right on with the 3 new Big B pieces, they are a definite different look to the Brunswick line, still have to same heavy roll characterstics but the coverstocks just read the lane so much truer than anything I've seen. By this i mean you won't get the over-exaggerated squirt in oil or jump off friction.




Hey NoseofI,  are you still eating lunch at taco city????

Cause I, the stupid one am still waiting for that list of dist. selling the Maxxx zone cheaper the what I posted.

Or are you just another Big B brown nose.  All talk and no walk.

Limit one, expires 12/12/08.
unbeliveable
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: mmcfarland300 on November 26, 2008, 03:35:30 PM
JLS, chill out.....

I know we have had this conversation before.  Your passion is enjoyed and while I tend to agree with you your not helping the cause.  Ebonite has in my opinion stuck with there pricing plan and I think it has hurt them to a point.  Sure Columbia is selling well and Hammer is selling well but Ebo for the most part is not.  Pin Slasher might do some things to change that if it can get some publicity and best part about that is it is the medium price point.  Have a good thanksgiving "pitbull".
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 03:45:03 PM
Listen JLS every post you make just proves how ignorant you are.  Did you ever think that maybe I have a job that actually requires working instead of sitting in front of my computer in my tube socks, scrolling through posts waiting to make a post about internet pricing, or to just get in an arguement with someone?
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
quote:
Listen JLS every post you make just proves how ignorant you are.  Did you ever think that maybe I have a job that actually requires working instead of sitting in front of my computer in my tube socks, scrolling through posts waiting to make a post about internet pricing, or to just get in an arguement with someone?




So what you are saying is this,  you have a big mouth, you don't know what you are talking about. And I don't expect you to be providing us with a list of dist. selling the Maxx Zone cheaper then what I posted.  You know, me the guy that pays way too much.

In otherwords, you an idiot with a big mouth who can't back up his B.S.

And now all of a sudden, it's because you have a job!!!!

Ok,  take the weekend.  Get back to us on Monday.

You are a joke!!!


If you don't know what you are talking about,  maybe you should shut up.

are we clear

--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 04:05:39 PM
quote:
JLS, chill out.....

I know we have had this conversation before.  Your passion is enjoyed and while I tend to agree with you your not helping the cause.  Ebonite has in my opinion stuck with there pricing plan and I think it has hurt them to a point.  Sure Columbia is selling well and Hammer is selling well but Ebo for the most part is not.  Pin Slasher might do some things to change that if it can get some publicity and best part about that is it is the medium price point.  Have a good thanksgiving "pitbull".



In highend balls Ebonite may have been behind.  But their Bash and Clash as well as The Tornado lines are doing well.  Now maybe the Striking motion will change that.  Not saying that their price plan is perfect.  Am saying that at least Ebonite stands up to the dist.  And they do appear to want to help pro shops.

Now in case some of you did not notice,  I said I was doing well with the Maxx zone.  Sold three in the last couple days.  And on todays order, I had 2 more on order, and they were back ordered.  So it appears that Big b is doing ok with this ball.

And I said we have no problems with the Twisted Fury line of balls. They are not selling online below pro shop cost!!!!!!  But for some reason, the Maxxx Zones are.  

"Pit Bull"   that has a nice ring to it.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too MM300.


--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/26/2008 5:07 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 04:17:57 PM
Before I even give you answers to the questions you so kindly asked, you need to know who you are talking to before you go making assumption like "broom closet turned into pro shop" or "big b brown noser"
So let me give you a little more insight so that you can have a rebuttal that will just add to your ignorant image.  
My bosses, Father and Son, own 3 proshops in the RI/South Eastern MA area.  Both the father and son are PBA members both have bowled or are bowling on tour at this time.  Both probably have more accomplishments in one year than you've had in your career.  I still help out part time at the shops, as I've been working in the field that I went to school for.  I myself am a PBA member, and have bowled numerous regionals along with the US Open.  
I am a Brunswick amateur staff member, and therefore will promote the product as my staff position warrants.  Yes I have always been partial to Brunswick, but did throw many other company products prior to being on staff.  And yes I will admit that for a period of time there were some very hit or miss Brunswick balls.  And I was part of the crowd that bought a Black Widow and a One.  So Big B Brown-Noser I think not, Big B Staff member YES.

So now to answer your so nicely asked questions.
We order from 3 distributors, Bowler's Supply, Ace Mitchell, and Kilganon's (i'm sure jls will have a comment on the spelling of this one).  But hey I don't do the ordering so I don't NEED to spell it right.  And we do purchase the MaxxX for under you're $108.  
And honestly, you really need to choose your battles better, considering you are NOT the only shop in the country that has to compete with the internet.  So why must you take over every post with a whiny rant of how a certain ball at a certain time is cheaper on the internet.  Use that to your advantage.  You charge people more for outside drillings, explain that you'll be able to offer them better service if they buy the ball through you.  But honestly if you treat your customers anything like you treat other posters on here, then I can see why you are so afraid of the internet business.  The proshop is a Services business not a wholesale business.  So you need to rethink your whining about the internet sells it cheaper than i can get it.  Well guess what, when a person buys a ball online, they get 0 service, just a product.  I'm sure I speak for a few people on hear in saying, please stop your whining about internet prices because its been around for years, every shop has to compete with it, and its going to stick around.  

Okay, so now that I've answered your questions and given you some insight, please honor me with your typical response of how stupid I, and everyone else that disagrees with you on here are, and also where the closest Taco City to RI is so that I may take your advice for my dinner.

It is sad that you must stoop to calling people complete idiots and swearing to get a point across.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 04:25:59 PM
quote:
quote:
Listen JLS every post you make just proves how ignorant you are.  Did you ever think that maybe I have a job that actually requires working instead of sitting in front of my computer in my tube socks, scrolling through posts waiting to make a post about internet pricing, or to just get in an arguement with someone?




So what you are saying is this,  you have a big mouth, you don't know what you are talking about. And I don't expect you to be providing us with a list of dist. selling the Maxx Zone cheaper then what I posted.  You know, me the guy that pays way too much.

In otherwords, you an idiot with a big mouth who can't back up his B.S.

And now all of a sudden, it's because you have a job!!!!

Ok,  take the weekend.  Get back to us on Monday.

You are a joke!!!


If you don't know what you are talking about,  maybe you should shut up.

are we clear

--------------------
jls



Wow, you really are pitiful.  I'm sorry that I couldn't answer your question within your "posting shotclock" because I actually have a job that requires me to work instead of hovering over BR making posts every 5 minutes.
The fact is that doing my job is more important going back and forth with you every 5 minutes when your not going to listen and just call me stupid with nothing to back that up.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 04:41:03 PM
Typical east coaster.  You people out there in Teddy land really do think you are better then everyone.

Now exactly what is the price you claim they pay, since you don't do the ordering.

I said I pay $108.  Wow, will you say they pay $107.99.  The way you talk, you make it sound like they are paying $90 for the ball.  I don't think so Tim.

Most Dist. are within a few dollars of each other.

And what about that B.S. you posted about the so called package plan.  Again you make it sound like that is the norm!!!!  It's not.  It's a one time offer per shop,  better known as LIMIT ONE.

So take your time, cause I know you work, and get back to me when ever, with that price.  

And wipe the brown stuff off your nose.  You Big b people love to attack others.  but boy if someone dares to post anything about the Big B,  you get bent out of shape.  

Now go review and you will see that others brought up the Ebonite floor pricing plan.  Not me.  All I did was respond to it!!!!!

Is that ok with you???  Like I f-ing care!!!!

Remember,  take your time, cause I know you work, and get back to me with those prices,  especially since you don't do the ordering!!!!

what a joke

BTW, checked with one of your dist.  There high price is $116.70, my dist. high price is $108.00.  Now since I don't buy from them, I don't know what their low price would be.  But since their high price is about $5 higher, wild guess is that their low price will still be higher then my dist.

But I'm sure you will be clearing that up soon.  Take your time, cause we know you work.


--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/26/2008 5:49 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 26, 2008, 05:17:27 PM
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 05:25:33 PM
Okay so I never implied that I was better than anyone, I just proved your assumption of myself, and the shop I work for incorrect.  
And I love how you group me into "you big b people" as if we're some kind of extremist group that is against everything outside of Brunswick.  I can't believe I have to say this again, but I obviously will promote Brunswick first being a staff member, but I won't ever knock another company.  I think every company out there has their share of great bowling balls right now.
And where was it that I got bent out of shape regarding something being said about Brunswick.  I'm sorry that your whining about a ball being less than $1 cheaper online than you can buy it for happened to be a Brunswick ball.  I was defending the ball or company itself in my point, I was complaining about your whining, because I have seen nearly the same exact words in numerous posts.  

Okay so the Brunswick special was a 1-time offer, but my point is you still could have taken advantage of it, to at least lower your overall cost a little.
It just so happened that we were able to get 3 (1 for each shop).
And as far as that price goes, we get it for $106 shipped.  No I never implied that we were getting it for $90 but you were making it sound like you have the lowest prices in the country and still can't compete with the internet.  Yet you seem to conveniently negate the fact that the $107 internet price probably doesn't include shipping or any other fees.  Not to mention that if a person buys it online, comes in and gets it drilled by you, you have 0 overhead for that customer.  
The fact is all the distributors and ball companies will gladly work with you (as long as you don't act like you do on here) in order to have competitive pricing.  The fact is the pro shop is a service business and the internet is based upon quantity.  
Honestly, it is funny seeing how you try to use every little thing to get in a dig at me.  What are you trying to accomplish by repeating that "you don't do the ordering!"?
And I really do love how you must always add some belittling remarks in order my yourself feel better.  You can't just make your point and leave it at that.  
Lastly, is making fun of the fact that I don't respond within your personal timeclock an attempt at blasting me for having a job?  I'm sorry that we all can't be BR megaposter such as yourself.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: NoseofRI on November 26, 2008, 05:36:47 PM
jls I'd love to continue to fuel your petty smoke fire, but the fact is it's no longer worth my time arguing with you, and I must be going home, because I do have a life outside of getting into arguments on BR.  

So I wish you and all others on here a wonderful Thanksgiving, and would just like to close with the fact that ALL shops must compete with the internet, I know how aggravating it is but there are still ways to prosper.

Are WE CLEAR??
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 26, 2008, 06:31:42 PM
quote:
Okay so I never implied that I was better than anyone, I just proved your assumption of myself, and the shop I work for incorrect.  
And I love how you group me into "you big b people" as if we're some kind of extremist group that is against everything outside of Brunswick.  I can't believe I have to say this again, but I obviously will promote Brunswick first being a staff member, but I won't ever knock another company.  I think every company out there has their share of great bowling balls right now.
And where was it that I got bent out of shape regarding something being said about Brunswick.  I'm sorry that your whining about a ball being less than $1 cheaper online than you can buy it for happened to be a Brunswick ball.  I was defending the ball or company itself in my point, I was complaining about your whining, because I have seen nearly the same exact words in numerous posts.  

Okay so the Brunswick special was a 1-time offer, but my point is you still could have taken advantage of it, to at least lower your overall cost a little.
It just so happened that we were able to get 3 (1 for each shop).
And as far as that price goes, we get it for $106 shipped.  No I never implied that we were getting it for $90 but you were making it sound like you have the lowest prices in the country and still can't compete with the internet.  Yet you seem to conveniently negate the fact that the $107 internet price probably doesn't include shipping or any other fees.  Not to mention that if a person buys it online, comes in and gets it drilled by you, you have 0 overhead for that customer.  
The fact is all the distributors and ball companies will gladly work with you (as long as you don't act like you do on here) in order to have competitive pricing.  The fact is the pro shop is a service business and the internet is based upon quantity.  
Honestly, it is funny seeing how you try to use every little thing to get in a dig at me.  What are you trying to accomplish by repeating that "you don't do the ordering!"?
And I really do love how you must always add some belittling remarks in order my yourself feel better.  You can't just make your point and leave it at that.  
Lastly, is making fun of the fact that I don't respond within your personal timeclock an attempt at blasting me for having a job?  I'm sorry that we all can't be BR megaposter such as yourself.




I just checked the price online.  Bowling.com sells the ball for $107.99, with free shipping.  Our shop pays more then that for the ball from our distributor.
You made it sound like jls is paying way too much for the ball. The fact is that you now claim to pay $106.  So his price on that item is $2.00 higher.
I think the point he was making was that the Maxx Zone sells for about the same cost as the Black Widow or the Cells, to the pro shops,  yet they sell online for $119.99.  Now someone posted that Ebonite's plan is not working or helping the pro shops.  As a pro shop,  I think seeing the Cells or the Balck widows online for $119.99 is better then seeing the Maxxx Zone online for $107.99.  To me that was jls point.

Now feel free to attack me.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 26, 2008, 06:37:38 PM
quote:
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  I took the time to check out this site,  it's under construction. So no price is shown.  So how is it you know what their price is.  And do you really think that this distributor will post his prices to the public. I might be wrong, but I don't think they would do that.  Now my shop pays about $107, so if this distributor is so much lower, I would like to buy some balls from him.  Now since you posted his web site, maybe you should have taken your own advise and check to see that it is up and running, before you go telling others that they are going off.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: bassace on November 26, 2008, 06:47:17 PM
quote:
quote:
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  I took the time to check out this site,  it's under construction. So no price is shown.  So how is it you know what their price is.  And do you really think that this distributor will post his prices to the public. I might be wrong, but I don't think they would do that.  Now my shop pays about $107, so if this distributor is so much lower, I would like to buy some balls from him.  Now since you posted his web site, maybe you should have taken your own advise and check to see that it is up and running, before you go telling others that they are going off.



Here is the corrected link for the technologically deprived.  All you had to do is remove the "." from the link, moron.

http://www.acemitchell.com/
--------------------
"So here's my sound advice: shut your trap, get a life, and make a quick run to the store so you can buy yourself a clue." - Uncle Crusty to Mike James  9/15/08
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 26, 2008, 07:16:55 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  I took the time to check out this site,  it's under construction. So no price is shown.  So how is it you know what their price is.  And do you really think that this distributor will post his prices to the public. I might be wrong, but I don't think they would do that.  Now my shop pays about $107, so if this distributor is so much lower, I would like to buy some balls from him.  Now since you posted his web site, maybe you should have taken your own advise and check to see that it is up and running, before you go telling others that they are going off.



Here is the corrected link for the technologically deprived.  All you had to do is remove the "." from the link, moron.

http://www.acemitchell.com/
--------------------
"So here's my sound advice: shut your trap, get a life, and make a quick run to the store so you can buy yourself a clue." - Uncle Crusty to Mike James  9/15/08



Thankyou for the kind words. I did get through using the link you provided. Just as I thought, they do not give info on prices to the public.  You have to be a registered pro shop.  Which brings us back to Larry.  How does he know what their prices are?  Is he a pro shop or an online dealer?

Oh and btw,  you sir are a jerk.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 26, 2008, 07:19:16 PM
Sjf,

I work for Ace Mitchell.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 26, 2008, 07:28:31 PM
quote:
Sjf,

I work for Ace Mitchell.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble



Ok I will call you from the shop on Friday, and ask for the price of the ball in question.
As you well know, no distributor will have the lowest prices on every item.
We feel service and selection is just as important.  A dollar here or there on a ball is not that big  a deal.  
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Verbs on November 26, 2008, 07:42:34 PM
Correct Sjf. No distributtor, Pro Shop, manufacturer, etc., can be everything to everyone. We just try to outservice & out-inventory our competition.

FYI, due to the holiday & UPS not shipping on Friday, our office will be closed.

Sjf, I works as an outside sales rep. in MI & NW Ohio. So I am rarely in our main office in Akron, OH. But if you are a pro shop operator/employee, feel free to pm me and I will be more than happy to get you the information that I can.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programing.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: The Bowlers Edge 2 on November 26, 2008, 08:01:54 PM
check your bowlingball.com news letter... bites are 99$ shipped to your door.
quote:
quote:
Okay so I never implied that I was better than anyone, I just proved your assumption of myself, and the shop I work for incorrect.  
And I love how you group me into "you big b people" as if we're some kind of extremist group that is against everything outside of Brunswick.  I can't believe I have to say this again, but I obviously will promote Brunswick first being a staff member, but I won't ever knock another company.  I think every company out there has their share of great bowling balls right now.
And where was it that I got bent out of shape regarding something being said about Brunswick.  I'm sorry that your whining about a ball being less than $1 cheaper online than you can buy it for happened to be a Brunswick ball.  I was defending the ball or company itself in my point, I was complaining about your whining, because I have seen nearly the same exact words in numerous posts.  

Okay so the Brunswick special was a 1-time offer, but my point is you still could have taken advantage of it, to at least lower your overall cost a little.
It just so happened that we were able to get 3 (1 for each shop).
And as far as that price goes, we get it for $106 shipped.  No I never implied that we were getting it for $90 but you were making it sound like you have the lowest prices in the country and still can't compete with the internet.  Yet you seem to conveniently negate the fact that the $107 internet price probably doesn't include shipping or any other fees.  Not to mention that if a person buys it online, comes in and gets it drilled by you, you have 0 overhead for that customer.  
The fact is all the distributors and ball companies will gladly work with you (as long as you don't act like you do on here) in order to have competitive pricing.  The fact is the pro shop is a service business and the internet is based upon quantity.  
Honestly, it is funny seeing how you try to use every little thing to get in a dig at me.  What are you trying to accomplish by repeating that "you don't do the ordering!"?
And I really do love how you must always add some belittling remarks in order my yourself feel better.  You can't just make your point and leave it at that.  
Lastly, is making fun of the fact that I don't respond within your personal timeclock an attempt at blasting me for having a job?  I'm sorry that we all can't be BR megaposter such as yourself.




I just checked the price online.  Bowling.com sells the ball for $107.99, with free shipping.  Our shop pays more then that for the ball from our distributor.
You made it sound like jls is paying way too much for the ball. The fact is that you now claim to pay $106.  So his price on that item is $2.00 higher.
I think the point he was making was that the Maxx Zone sells for about the same cost as the Black Widow or the Cells, to the pro shops,  yet they sell online for $119.99.  Now someone posted that Ebonite's plan is not working or helping the pro shops.  As a pro shop,  I think seeing the Cells or the Balck widows online for $119.99 is better then seeing the Maxxx Zone online for $107.99.  To me that was jls point.

Now feel free to attack me.

--------------------
The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 08:15:11 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  I took the time to check out this site,  it's under construction. So no price is shown.  So how is it you know what their price is.  And do you really think that this distributor will post his prices to the public. I might be wrong, but I don't think they would do that.  Now my shop pays about $107, so if this distributor is so much lower, I would like to buy some balls from him.  Now since you posted his web site, maybe you should have taken your own advise and check to see that it is up and running, before you go telling others that they are going off.



Here is the corrected link for the technologically deprived.  All you had to do is remove the "." from the link, moron.

http://www.acemitchell.com/
--------------------
"So here's my sound advice: shut your trap, get a life, and make a quick run to the store so you can buy yourself a clue." - Uncle Crusty to Mike James  9/15/08



Nice talk,  you eat at the table with that foul mouth.  A person ask a question and another Big B Brown nose goes off.  What is it with you people.

Seems to me that you Big b people are a little too sensitive.  Of course since you don't have any balls that I know about that sell,  I guess i can see why.

Around here all I see are Cell Pearls,  Venoms, a lot of Globals, and most recently, the Virtual.  

Now I have not said one bad thing about ant Big b ball.  If you dumb heads can read, I posted that will do Ok with the Twisted Fury line.  And most recently we started selling the MNaxx zone.  Sold three in the last few days.

Now exactly where does that sound like bashing.  All I said you poor excuses for humans is that the Maxx zone is selling online for just about what we pay for it.  I don't want to hear crap from losers about where to buy the f-ing ball.  The point you poor excuses for humans is that Ebonite does indeed try to help pro shops with their pricing.   Some clown brought it up that the NV's are being footballed,  They are DQ.  The current line of balls from Ebonite are not being footballed.  You idiots don't know or understand the difference.

You all got your heads up the big B's butts so far, that you can't see or think clearly.

There is a difference between a new release and a year old model that is DQ.

The Maxx Zone is  a NEW release.  Yet it is selling for just about or less then what pro shops pay for it.

Now if any of you losers don't like the fact that I pointed this out, that is too f-ing bad.  The truth hurts.

Selling balls to your online dealers for the same price you sell to your pro shops,  does not do anything to help them or the industry.  But then again, your Big B, and you did move to Mexico.  Your plant, is it right down the street from all the pot fields in Mexico????  You know where all that pot comes from that gets into our schools and children.  


Oh ya, no one does pot!!!!

get a life

BTW, each and everytime I sell a global ball I think, that is maybe one less Big B ball sold.  Global, proudly made in the USA.

Now lets hear from all the Big B brown nose losers.

--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: JustRico on November 26, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
JLS

You and I have had our many discussions in the past.
With that being said, I am curious why it is alright for you to insult anyone that disagrees with you, but not the same when they defend or retaliate? And if someone disagrees with you, they are automatically a Big B brown nosers? And last but not least, why you seem to enjoy stirring the Brunswick pot?

Also, for your education, most of the marijuanna in the US is grown in the US. And is, from what I have heard, better than that, that is grown outside the US. So one more argument for US made products, eh?

If Americans weren't so lazy, as well as greedy, a. manufacturing would not be moving outside the US and b. we would not be in a 'recession'. I guess it's alright for US corporations to lay off the WORKERS, cry poverty and collect their multi million dollar salaries and/or bonuses.

Anyways, I look forward to you or one of the alphabet posters witty retorts slamming me. Oh well. Some things just get old.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: bassace on November 26, 2008, 08:34:09 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
jls,

You really need to take it easy. This is just bowling.

Also, being that you say you are a pro shop, check out www.acemitchell.com. Maxx Zone IS less than $107 from a distributor that buys enough quantity.

I'm not knocking any other distributor. They buy what they think they can sell. But check ALL the facts before you go off.

Verbs
--------------------
Larry Verble




Larry,  I took the time to check out this site,  it's under construction. So no price is shown.  So how is it you know what their price is.  And do you really think that this distributor will post his prices to the public. I might be wrong, but I don't think they would do that.  Now my shop pays about $107, so if this distributor is so much lower, I would like to buy some balls from him.  Now since you posted his web site, maybe you should have taken your own advise and check to see that it is up and running, before you go telling others that they are going off.



Here is the corrected link for the technologically deprived.  All you had to do is remove the "." from the link, moron.

http://www.acemitchell.com/
--------------------
"So here's my sound advice: shut your trap, get a life, and make a quick run to the store so you can buy yourself a clue." - Uncle Crusty to Mike James  9/15/08



Nice talk,  you eat at the table with that foul mouth.  A person ask a question and another Big B Brown nose goes off.  What is it with you people.

Seems to me that you Big b people are a little too sensitive.  Of course since you don't have any balls that I know about that sell,  I guess i can see why.

Around here all I see are Cell Pearls,  Venoms, a lot of Globals, and most recently, the Virtual.  

Now I have not said one bad thing about ant Big b ball.  If you dumb heads can read, I posted that will do Ok with the Twisted Fury line.  And most recently we started selling the MNaxx zone.  Sold three in the last few days.

Now exactly where does that sound like bashing.  All I said you poor excuses for humans is that the Maxx zone is selling online for just about what we pay for it.  I don't want to hear crap from losers about where to buy the f-ing ball.  The point you poor excuses for humans is that Ebonite does indeed try to help pro shops with their pricing.   Some clown brought it up that the NV's are being footballed,  They are DQ.  The current line of balls from Ebonite are not being footballed.  You idiots don't know or understand the difference.

You all got your heads up the big B's butts so far, that you can't see or think clearly.

There is a difference between a new release and a year old model that is DQ.

The Maxx Zone is  a NEW release.  Yet it is selling for just about or less then what pro shops pay for it.

Now if any of you losers don't like the fact that I pointed this out, that is too f-ing bad.  The truth hurts.

Selling balls to your online dealers for the same price you sell to your pro shops,  does not do anything to help them or the industry.  But then again, your Big B, and you did move to Mexico.  Your plant, is it right down the street from all the pot fields in Mexico????  You know where all that pot comes from that gets into our schools and children.  


Oh ya, no one does pot!!!!

get a life

BTW, each and everytime I sell a global ball I think, that is maybe one less Big B ball sold.  Global, proudly made in the USA.

Now lets hear from all the Big B brown nose losers.

--------------------
jls



Its a lot nicer than this:


From:  Sjf        
Received:  11/26/2008 8:07:51 PM
Subject:  hey
Message:  It's me the moron. Your link worked, his did not. Sorry I am not as smart as you,. you piece of shxxx. I asked a simple question and you go postal.
Screw you you piece of shxxxx.  

--------------------
"So here's my sound advice: shut your trap, get a life, and make a quick run to the store so you can buy yourself a clue." - Uncle Crusty to Mike James  9/15/08
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 08:38:36 PM
quote:
jls I'd love to continue to fuel your petty smoke fire, but the fact is it's no longer worth my time arguing with you, and I must be going home, because I do have a life outside of getting into arguments on BR.  

So I wish you and all others on here a wonderful Thanksgiving, and would just like to close with the fact that ALL shops must compete with the internet, I know how aggravating it is but there are still ways to prosper.

Are WE CLEAR??




Hey Mr PBA,  you talk a lot of crap.  You act like your WalMart.  Anyone in the business with a brain,  {so that's explains you being the way you are,}  would know that no dist. has the lowest f-ing price on every item.

You make a federal case out of the price.  First you make it sound like I am paying $108 and your shop, Walmart, is paying $90.  And then you show more stupidity by saying buy the package.  Limit one dork boy!!!!!

Lets face, you know nothing.   Now maybe your 16 year old girl friends are impressed by you, but I ain't.  

And then you post you pay $106.  Wow.  The point you poor excuse for a human is that, everybody on earth can but that ball for $107.99, with free shipping.
And since most dist. add on about $8.00 to $10.00 frieight with sur charge, per order.  Your big volumn pro shop is actually paying more then JOE BLOW PUBLIC for the same ball you buy from your buddies, the Big B.

But your too stupid to realize that anyone can buy that ball for what your big bad super big volumn pro shop can.  You are an idiot.  

Now if that is ok with you and you buddies, I don't care.  But as a real pro shop,  who pays rent, taxes, payroll and other overheads, I do care when JOE BLOW PUBLIC can order One f-ing ball and pay the same or less then a real pro shop pays.   That is not right.

And Ebonite at least is trying to level the playing field.  And Big B and their dist. don't like that.  Well ask me if I care what Big B thinks.

And for you Big B brown nose wan a bees, get a life.

Oh and thanks Big b for moving to Mexico so you could save money, and pass the savings on to your customers.   oops, you didn't do that,  you kept it.

Thank the lord for companies like Ebonite and Global.  Sure some of their plastic is made in China, but most if not all of their regular line is made right here in the good old USA.  And they proudly engrave that on their balls.

The don't need to put on those stupid little stickers that say, "made in Mexico"  like the big b was forced to do!!!!!!!

Ashammed of the fact that your balls are made in Mexico????

Are we clear now, mr pba.
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 09:02:55 PM
quote:
JLS

You and I have had our many discussions in the past.
With that being said, I am curious why it is alright for you to insult anyone that disagrees with you, but not the same when they defend or retaliate? And if someone disagrees with you, they are automatically a Big B brown nosers? And last but not least, why you seem to enjoy stirring the Brunswick pot?

Also, for your education, most of the marijuanna in the US is grown in the US. And is, from what I have heard, better than that, that is grown outside the US. So one more argument for US made products, eh?

If Americans weren't so lazy, as well as greedy, a. manufacturing would not be moving outside the US and b. we would not be in a 'recession'. I guess it's alright for US corporations to lay off the WORKERS, cry poverty and collect their multi million dollar salaries and/or bonuses.

Anyways, I look forward to you or one of the alphabet posters witty retorts slamming me. Oh well. Some things just get old.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico



Hey formerly
You do realize that you just called most of your customers greedy and lazy.
I guess those lowlifes in Michigan will love to hear that.  Now you clearly have shown, you Know nothing about the economy.  The whole world is in a recession.  And most of our products come from overseas.  You when you say that us greedy lazy Americans drove Corps out of the country, and caused this recession,  you are talking stupid talk.  The whole world is in a recession. Not just us greedy lazy Americans.  Now as for most pot being grown here, prove that.  All we ever hear about is all those pot fields in Mexico sending pot to the US, where us greedy lazy Americans live.

Now I don't care who you are or work for.  I made a statement of fact.  Big B's  Maxx zones are selling for about the same price online as decent hard working greedy lazy american pro shops pay for the ball.

And if you don't like that, ask me if I care??????????????



Each and everytime someone makes a statement of fact, you Big B's go off on them.  Just like with the $99 Fury closeout.  Most real companies have a new model ready to go when they closeout a ball.  Your company did not come out with the replacement to the Fury, for about 8-9 months.   Get stuck at the border???

Now in case you don't know this, you do not own this site. Now if you don't like hearing the truth, then put me on your iggy list, Cause I really don't like dealing with you or your following of brown noses.

Are we clear

have a nice day

signed, one of 305 million greedy lazy Americans.

You sir are an idiot.

still clear
--------------------
jls

Edited on 11/28/2008 8:52 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: JustRico on November 26, 2008, 09:10:19 PM
Hey MORON why do you think I am formerly....BRUNSWICK LAID ME OFF A OVER A MONTH AGO, where have you been. There was a post that had over 6300 VIEWS about it and you missed it?
And if you honestly do not think Americans are greedy nor lazy, then you are dilussional. You sir know nothing about much other, than starting arguments and insulting anyone as well as hiding behind a (multiple) screen name(s), so your so-called customers do not know what a jack-hole you are.

And BTW I stand by my statements.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 26, 2008, 09:34:49 PM
quote:
Hey MORON why do you think I am formerly....BRUNSWICK LAID ME OFF A OVER A MONTH AGO, where have you been. And if you honestly do not think Americans are greedy nor lazy, then you are dilussional. You sir know nothing about much other, than starting arguments and insulting anyone as well as hiding behind a (multiple) screen name(s), so your so-called customers do not know what a jack-hole you are.

And BTW I stand by my statements.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico



Well now, I didn't know that. Actually I am sorry to hear that. Now what you said is true,  Us Americans do tend to be greedy and lazy.  But for a sales rep to say something like that about his customers, is not a good thing, even if true.  Now if stating the truth about pricing is starting an arguement, then so be it.  The truth is that,  most pro shops pay about $106-$108 for the Maxx zone, and anyone on earth can buy it online for $107.99 with free shipping.

Now exactly how does this start an arguement.  Is it because you don't want to hear the truth???

Well too bad.

And my customers do know me as JLS, and I get emails from many of them on a daily basis.  They do ask, why do I bother with people like you on BR.  I say, it relieves stress.

Now I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some shops have more then one person working for them.  My son works here and he did use to post. But he got bored with dealing with people like you, so he stopped.

Just because you people at Brunswick say something, that does not always make it so!!!!! Other ball companies have decent products too.  In fact has Big b made many TV shows? I know I see some Global and Storm.  I will try to pay more attention this week.

But you Big B people sure do love to knock Ebonite and their pricing policy.  But if someone defends them, then you all go postal.  Do you think you will scare me away.  Get a life.

Well I think Ebonite at least is trying to help pro shops.  Can we say the same about the big b???

And comparing a DQ iten to a current item.  Really, not cool.
--------------------
jls
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Z Jellsey on November 26, 2008, 09:41:54 PM
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine

Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Z Jellsey on November 26, 2008, 09:46:13 PM
That's how I roll...
--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine

Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 26, 2008, 09:56:20 PM
quote:
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine




I see we have another computor tough guy.

Happy thanksgiving!

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:56 PM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Slumpbuster on November 26, 2008, 09:59:28 PM
This "JLS" guy makes me ashamed to throw and even own a global bowling ball I may sell off my entire stash and say no to global and ebonite from now on!Is this idiot on staff? If he is, i will NEVER buy or throw whoever supports this guy ever again. Especially if any company thinks its okay for this guy to bash and trash any and everyone that has a different view from himself. And my pro shop lady wants to know what the hell does a ball being "DQ"ed mean???
--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Z Jellsey on November 26, 2008, 10:04:11 PM
Didn't say anything I wouldn't say to either of your faces...

...and it's computer not computor, clown!
quote:
quote:
I could care less about the discussion going on...

If I were to meet JLS in person I would smash his teeth and jaw over a curb if he talked like this to me.

Happy Thanksgiving!
--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine




I see we have another computor tough guy.



Happy thanksgiving!

Edited on 11/26/2008 10:56 PM

--------------------
I'm a Rev-O-Tronic pinky tucking machine

Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: renoatpikeville on November 26, 2008, 11:30:33 PM
quote:
This "JLS" guy makes me ashamed to throw and even own a global bowling ball I may sell off my entire stash and say no to global and ebonite from now on!Is this idiot on staff? If he is, i will NEVER buy or throw whoever supports this guy ever again. Especially if any company thinks its okay for this guy to bash and trash any and everyone that has a different view from himself. And my pro shop lady wants to know what the hell does a ball being "DQ"ed mean???
--------------------
Come AMF/900 or don't come at all!!


If you haven't figured it out yet I think DQ means Discontinued...
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: DP3 on November 27, 2008, 02:45:20 AM
Last time I checked my catalouge and local customer contingent, there's a dozen or so other balls at a price point around/less for the Maxxx Zone that yeild a better or closer reaction for local lane conditions.  Luckily, the majority of my customers don't care what I pay for the ball and are happy enough with the good work I do to pay what I demand.  If it's online for 2 or 3 bucks cheaper(in my case 8 or 9 bucks cheaper online)....then eh, so be it.  In this industry which I run as a full time job I live by one motto.

Sell what keeps your customers satisfied and your bills paid.

Pro Shop 101.


--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop.  AMF Bowie Lanes -- Bowie, MD

Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Maine Man on November 27, 2008, 03:45:12 AM
I agree with DJ on this one.  At the shop where I work, we sell an even amount of equipment from most major manufacturers across the board, regardless of minor price differences.  Our customers feel that the total experience and personal service they receive is worth the extra money that they would have saved by buying (and possibly getting it drilled ) online.  We also do not turn away customers who have bought balls away from our shop, as we feel that any business is good business.  We will custom fit and drill a ball for anyone who walks into the shop.  Many times, that same person who brought in their online purchase, begins buying from us after their experience, because they were surprised just how competitive we can be with our pricing and they were satisfied with the service after the sale.  They will pay the extra money knowing that we will go the extra mile and stand behind what we drill for them.

We sell as much (if not more) Brunswick equipment than the other major companies.  These things appear to be cyclical when it comes to popularity of a certain line, or brand, of balls.  We have sold a ton of Twisteds, Cells, Shifts, and Widows.  All four are from different labels, but have a certain niche with bowlers.  My personal feeling when it comes to Brunswick equipment, is that I like the reaction most of the current lineup gives you, and you can make a complete arsenal from what we can stock in the proshop.  You can cover just about any condition with a Twisted Fury, Maxx Zone, Swarm, and Avalanche Slide.  Customers coming into our shop like it when we can suggest to them other balls by the same company that will fill out their arsenal, and it is good for the shop as well because we may make 2-3 sales from a customer instead of just the one original sale.  They like balls that will give them different looks on the lane, and the current Brunswick lineup does that for our shop, and our bowlers.  Other companies try and do the same thing, and we do suggestive selling for every brand that we stock, so in my opinion Brunswick is on par with everyone else when it comes to giving bowlers a wide variety of equipment choices for different lane conditions.  We have not had many issues as far as ball quality from the Brunswick balls rolling in from the Mexico plant, and any issues that have come up have been dealt with very timely and satisfactory to the shop's requests from the company.  You can't ask for more than that.

As far as the Brunswick thing goes in regards to pricing, it's out of our hands, so we don't worry ourselves about it.  The pricing is not an issue really, for us, and I haven't seen any adverse affect of the online deals on current Brunswick balls denting into our sales.  Our prices on Cells, Twisteds, Sauces, and Dimensions are all within a few dollars of one another, so there is no gaping difference for us when it comes to Big B.  This is just my opinion from up here in the far northeast.  It may be different in other markets, but I can not speak for those people, just from what we have seen roll into and out of the shop up here.  I don't want to sound like a guy who is brand loyal only to Big B, because if you look at my profile I throw balls from just about every company, and suggest balls to certain bowlers based on the characteristics of the ball, and not the label on it.  I just focused on Brunswick here because it is the company being discussed in this thread.  Thanks for reading my response.
--------------------
James Goulding
Moores Pro Shop
Ball Driller / Consultant
USBC Blogger
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: jls on November 27, 2008, 09:25:31 AM
Cool,  no it is me!!!!  My son got bored with this site about a year ago.

Now the previous two post are from pro shops.  They posted how they feel about big B balls.  If any of you took the time, you would have noticed that in a much earlier post I stated that we do ok with the Twisted Fury Line, and just recently starting ordering the Maxxx Zone.   Sold 3 in the last few days, and have 2 more on order.  NOWHERE in any of my post did I ever knock the quality of the Zone Line.  However, since others posted about the Cells and the Venoms,  I made a comment about the cost.  I wondered why, since the Cells and the Widow line cost pro shops about the same as a Maxxx Zone, why does a Maxxx zone sell on line for $107.99 as opposed to $119.99 for the other two lines.

Ebonite floor pricing has been a sore subject on this site.  Some posted that it isn't working or that Ebonite does not enforce it.  I said they do.  Then someone attacked with, "are you on drugs"  They they brought up balls like the NV, or complete or NVS or the ONE.  These balls have all been removed from floor pricing by Ebonite.  Why, must be because they did not sell and so Ebonite DQ them.  { disc. }  

So of course they will not be on the floor pricing plan!!!!  Now I do remember getting either an email or a letter from Ebonite saying that certain balls will be removed from floor pricing on a certain date.  I have no problem with that.  You can't expect Ebonite to DQ a ball and leave it on floor pricing!!!

I stated that floor pricing pertains to CURRENT model balls.  Which brings us back to the new release called the Maxxx Zone.  I believe it came out earlier this month.  Yet it is selling for $12.00 less online then other CURRENT model balls from other ball makers,  which retail for about the same price.

Now I as a pro shop  I do indeed have the RIGHT to question this.  Why is a brand new Cell Pearl or Venom selling higher online then a Maxxx Zone???

An yet people on this site claim that Ebonite floor pricing does not work!!!
It works and it pertains to new CURRENT models, not one year old DQ balls.

And as a pro shop who on a daily basis invests money into inventory.  I do have the right to question this.  It is not whining as some of the BIG B groupies call it.  If they had to invest their money into stock, I wonder would they complain!!!!  BET YOUR BUTT THEY WOULD.

Now as for the world famous Fury closeout of 2007.  According to my dist.  the ball was selling ok.  Yet many BIG B people told me that the their dist.  you know the ones who cater to online dealers,  told them that the ball had "slowed down to a crawl in sales"  Why,  maybe it was because these certain dist.  bought too many Fury's and their online dealers didn't sell them well at regular price.  So they were stuck with them.  So sad too bad!!!

So right before the busy Christmas selling season, BIG B dumps the Fury.  At  a time when retail sales are at their BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, no problem....  But they probably dumped these balls for about $60 to their dist.  who inturn dumped them to their online dealers for about $75-$80.
Now this was indeed a great deal for the consumer!!!!!  But it cost Big B profits.  

Now the Big B could have done this.... Tell their sales staff to get off their butts and call their accounts and say,  we have a deal on the Fury, buy 4 get one free.  At that time a fury was costing pro shops about $128.

Now that means that by buying 4 and getting one free,  the cost to the pro shops now becomes $102.40.  Big b could then have sold these balls to their dist.  for maybe $80.  They would have made at least $20 or more per ball.

By doing this they would have shown some concern for their pro shops. But no, they didn't.  Their sales reps were too busy posting on BR.  So they just dumped them to their dist who cater to online dealers.  And hundreds and hundreds of small pro shops who had the Fury's in stock, got screwed.  Kinda sorta like when they moved to Mexico. Those workers in Michigan lost their jobs!!!!

Now we were LUCKY.  at the moment in history we were out of Furys.  You see in my shop, the sales of the Fury had not slowed down to a crawl....
I was working on my usual stock order.  I had 2 Fury's on it.  Lucky for me I received a phone call from a customer asking about a Fury.  I told him I was out and was re ordering the next day.  He ask me my price, and then he told me he could buy the ball online for $99.  

I turned around in my chair and went on the computer to Bowling.com,  and there they were,  for $99!!!!!! Now before this they were selling online for about $130-$132.   And as a pro shop owner, I do have the right to whine or complain about this.  I'm sorry if the Big B groupies who are not in the pro shop business don't understand or care about this.   I as a pro shop do have this right!!!!!!

Also I do not have an axe to grind because the Big B moved to Mexico.  I darn anyone to go back 2-3 years ago when their move was a major hot topic on this site.  Many shops were mad and had nothing nice to say about the Big b.  

Not once did I ever post anything bad about them because of their move.  I never once posted that I would stop selling their balls.  It's there, go back and read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I did not like it, but I understood it.  After all, I play golf and just about all golf clubs are made in China!!!!!!!

One day the Big B might wake up and realize that pro shops are needed and do sell their products.  New companies like Global know this.  And each and everyday, more and more pro shops are finding out that companies like Global and Ebonite are truely helping pro shops, as well as the whole industry!!!!

Now I don't care one bit about what the Big b groupies that make up this site think or care about anything!!!!!

I don't spend much time on this site.  So I did not know that Just Ric was laid off.  I was sorry to hear that.  Hopefully another ball company like maybe a Global or Ebonite or Storm will realize what a great addition to their staff a person like Ric would make!!!!!

We don't seem to see eye to eye,  mostly over pricing, but I have read many of his post, and do consider him extremely knowledgeable.

Now as for this last issue some have brought up about online dealers.
I check out prices online on a daily basis from the big 3.  Bowling.com,  bowling paridise.com, and Buddiespro shop.com  

Just a week or so ago, a customer called and asked about a Blast Zone for his daughter.  I told him I no longer stocked that ball and that a new model called the Maxx zone may be the replacement for that ball.  He knew all about that Mazxx,  But the Blast zone was selling online at a much lower price.  he asked me what I thought of that ball.  I told him it was a good ball for med. to heavy oil.  Much like the new Maxx zone.  I told him to order it, and he did.

A few days later he brought the ball in to be drilled.  Earlier that day I had taken an order for a Maxxx zone.  And then while drilling his Blast Zone, I received a phone call and another customer ordered a Maxxx Zone.  So I then decided that maybe I should start stocking this ball.  And I have.  But I did not try to talk this person out of ordering this blast zone online.  On many occasions I tell people to order online.  So far this new season,  I have two customers who I have drilled 12-14 balls for.  All but 2 were bought online from Buddiesproshop.com   A site that I told them to order from!!!!!

Just this last monday a women who has a Break S75 wanted a Break Pearl.  She needs certain specs,  I ordered one for her, but when the ball came in, the Top weight was 4oz and she wanted 3 oz.  I told her to call Buddies,  because thay have pro cg Break pearls for $99. and maybe she could get her specs!!!!

So I laugh when certain no it alls say "deal with online" give me a break.

Now my customers know me, we have been in business for just over three weeks!!!
Ok a joke!!!  So I really don't care what big B groupies who probably are still
using LT-48's or black beauties think about what I say or feel.

I especially got a good laugh at the clown who posted, "I ain't never buying Global or Ebonite"  is he a child of 12,  you see real BOWLERS, bowl for money. And money bowlers would use a rock if they thought they could win MONEY.
So only a fool or a 12 year old would post something so childish.

I also saw another keyboard tough guy's post.  another 12 year old.
My friend text me when he saw that, I told him that I had had enough for one day dealing with these big b groupies.

BTW I did tell him if he wanted, to pass along an address!!!

Now to all you Big B groupies, I must leave.  Because this site and some of you really bore me.

Happy Thanksgiving
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jls

Edited on 11/27/2008 10:32 AM
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: MTD300 on November 27, 2008, 09:48:14 AM
JLS, why would Brunswick sell to an online supplier cheaper than a proshop distributor???

These online websites MUST be getting the balls cheaper than us pro-shops? I know they wouldn't sell them for a loss.

I deal with a supplier, they are given a minimum price listing for the Ebonite family, they agree to not sell the product any cheaper...that works!!! I can compete online with Ebonite family but not with Brunswick.

Just my 2cents

P.S Verbs, The Vapor is great, I have 4 NIB along with a Classic Zone, Time Zone, Absolute Inferno, Great Inferno, Racing Zone, Etoile, Total Inferno and Red Alert Press. The Black Widow I have 20 NIB in store
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: tuckingfenpin on November 27, 2008, 10:13:23 AM
JLS has the worst case of nerd rage I've seen a long, long time.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.
Title: Re: Why can't Brunswick get lightening in a bottle again??
Post by: Sjf on November 27, 2008, 10:58:59 AM
quote:
JLS has the worst case of nerd rage I've seen a long, long time.
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.



Well I as a fellow pro shop ball driller don't think so. People like MTD, DP3, Maine, real pro shops may have a different point of view.  We as pro shops must deal with online pricing. As MTD and JLS have pointed out, Ebonite's pricing does help us. For you to come on and knock someone who has the guts to stand up to certain ball companies shows you lack the knowledge in retail to know what you are talking about.  As MTD pointed, He can compete with online dealers with Ebonite products.  That is because of their floor pricing plan.
And as he has pointed out, he can not compete with online dealers with Brunswick products.  As JLS pointed out, more and more pro shops are waking up and starting to deal with companies like Ebonite and Global because they have shown an interest in helping pro shops.   Now this sales policy of Ebonite's must be working,  because it appears that Brunswick has had to layoff some people.  Consumers on this site want to always get the lowest price.  Nothing wrong with that.  But pro shop ball drillers like myself and JLS and MTD and DP3 and Maine, make a living drilling balls.  This is not a game to us.  So fair pricing is extremely important to us.  And the "Pitbull" does not take kindly to ball companies that do not deal in a fair manner.  And of course if you do stand up for yourself on this site,  you will get bashed.  I find that most of the time the biggest bashers are people who buy one ball and use it forever.  Serious bowlers know the score.  And they know the importance of a good ball driller.  


Edited on 11/27/2008 12:00 PM