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Author Topic: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)  (Read 1645 times)

toneoak1

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The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« on: October 20, 2018, 08:31:18 PM »
I know if I took the time to skim through past threads, this topic has probably been covered at length to the point of nausea, but It doesn't make sense in my feeble mind that the grit under a coat of polish should matter in terms of ball reaction.  I have a spinner and am always wondering, "What would happen if I..."  When I look at a ball that I have polished, I can't help but believe that the consistency of a liquid polish would fill in/cover up the grooves whether those grooves are created with a 500 grit pad or a 5000 grit pad. If someone/anyone knows of a comparison video showing the difference of a ball at 500+polish compared to say 4000+polish, I would appreciate it.  The visual would be nice. I'll take a verbal explanation if It's all I can get. Thanks.

 

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2018, 10:16:43 PM »
The short answer is yes it does matter and seen it clearly myself on the same ball with different base grits under the same polish.  Let others describe science but basically just because you round the top of the mountains some it doesn't make the valleys all that much more shallow.  Quite common for me to be able to clearly seen sand lines even under the polish at least with Storm Reacta Shine.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 10:31:24 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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toneoak1

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 10:38:00 PM »
O.k. So what did you notice first hand? What surfaces did you use and how big of a difference did you see? Thanks

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 10:53:44 PM »
O.k. So what did you notice first hand? What surfaces did you use and how big of a difference did you see? Thanks

Mostly the difference between like 500/1500/3000/5000 (forgot used trizact pads instead of abralon) + polish vs 500/1500 + polish.  It's not huge but noticeably a little earlier with more mid lane without the higher grits.  Have a feeling amount of difference is somewhat style dependent as well.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 10:55:44 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 02:35:10 AM »
I know if I took the time to skim through past threads, this topic has probably been covered at length to the point of nausea, but It doesn't make sense in my feeble mind that the grit under a coat of polish should matter in terms of ball reaction.  I have a spinner and am always wondering, "What would happen if I..."  When I look at a ball that I have polished, I can't help but believe that the consistency of a liquid polish would fill in/cover up the grooves whether those grooves are created with a 500 grit pad or a 5000 grit pad. If someone/anyone knows of a comparison video showing the difference of a ball at 500+polish compared to say 4000+polish, I would appreciate it.  The visual would be nice. I'll take a verbal explanation if It's all I can get. Thanks.

Not quite what you asked for but this video shows 2k with lane shine vs fresh 2k vs 500/2k. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTxAHJHW0Jw

I did not find one with surface under polish perhaps someone else can.

As BowlingForDonuts said, the surface under the polish does matter.  Deeper grooves give more traction in oil than shallower grooves.  The old going up one step at a time with grit numbers type of sanding gives a much smoother reaction (some say weaker) than going with a lower grit number then skipping to the highest grit type of sanding because going up each successive step keeps lowering the peaks closer to the valley that was originally created with the rougher grit.  Same with polish.  You are not filling in the grooves with polish as it is just a much, much finer abrasive grit (higher number) so you are just barely smoothing the peaks but leaving the valleys from any lower grit abrasives.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 02:42:15 AM by MI 2 AZ »
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ignitebowling

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 10:58:30 AM »
It's going to depend on what you use.

Take a ball at 500 grit.  If you had a product like rough buff or quick cut etc its made to bring the balls surface grit up. It saves from using pads to go 500/1000/2000

If you take an actual polish to something like 500 grit or 1000 grit i would guess it might smooth out the front part of the lane and allow the ball to dig in downlane.  Since manufacturers donít use this process I'm guessing it's probably not very consistent or not a great reaction.
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notclay

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 11:17:36 AM »

Does it matter?  Yes.

I could spend hours (I type slowly) trying to type a full response, trying to address the multiple reasons why, but this has been covered very well here over the years.  What grit(s)?  Which abrasive?  Spinner speed?  Hand pressure?  Water used?  Which polish or compound?   The results can vary from slightly to greatly depending on lots of variables.  But, yes, it matters.
Lane Carter
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2018, 11:37:17 AM »
It's going to depend on what you use.

Take a ball at 500 grit.  If you had a product like rough buff or quick cut etc its made to bring the balls surface grit up. It saves from using pads to go 500/1000/2000

If you take an actual polish to something like 500 grit or 1000 grit i would guess it might smooth out the front part of the lane and allow the ball to dig in downlane.  Since manufacturers donít use this process I'm guessing it's probably not very consistent or not a great reaction.

Actually Hammer at least does use this with factory finish with like the Scandal Pearl (500 / 1000 Abralon / Powerhouse Factory Finish Polish).  It does tend to allow higher end shiny pearls to handle more oil in general but as with any polish can cause more over under problems than using a higher grit without polish.  Ball makers tend to like factory polish imo for sales appearance reasons.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 11:41:15 AM by BowlingForDonuts »
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ignitebowling

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2018, 04:23:34 PM »
It's going to depend on what you use.

Take a ball at 500 grit.  If you had a product like rough buff or quick cut etc its made to bring the balls surface grit up. It saves from using pads to go 500/1000/2000

If you take an actual polish to something like 500 grit or 1000 grit i would guess it might smooth out the front part of the lane and allow the ball to dig in downlane.  Since manufacturers donít use this process I'm guessing it's probably not very consistent or not a great reaction.

Actually Hammer at least does use this with factory finish with like the Scandal Pearl (500 / 1000 Abralon / Powerhouse Factory Finish Polish).  It does tend to allow higher end shiny pearls to handle more oil in general but as with any polish can cause more over under problems than using a higher grit without polish.  Ball makers tend to like factory polish imo for sales appearance reasons.

True,  but we dont know what that process includes from Ebi.

 Id have never guessed with all the Storm/Roto stuff at 1500 polished the process would be 500/1000/2000/4000 plus polish.  Or that their 2000grit finish would actual be 360 then 2000.

The plus is storm/roto makes that information available which is great.
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Steven

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2018, 05:57:05 PM »
I know if I took the time to skim through past threads, this topic has probably been covered at length to the point of nausea, but It doesn't make sense in my feeble mind that the grit under a coat of polish should matter in terms of ball reaction.  I have a spinner and am always wondering, "What would happen if I..."  When I look at a ball that I have polished, I can't help but believe that the consistency of a liquid polish would fill in/cover up the grooves whether those grooves are created with a 500 grit pad or a 5000 grit pad. If someone/anyone knows of a comparison video showing the difference of a ball at 500+polish compared to say 4000+polish, I would appreciate it.  The visual would be nice. I'll take a verbal explanation if It's all I can get. Thanks.

 
Most polishes does not "fill in/cover up the grooves". It's not a covering like frosting on a cake. Polish is usually a liquid abrasive that's applied to take the surface grit to a higher level. So the base (starting) grit makes a huge difference. 500+polish vs. 4000+polish (assuming same polish application) result in two completely different finishes. 
 
As has been mentioned, there are many variables that affect the final resulting grit. It's one of those things you learn through experimenting.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 06:02:28 PM by Steven »

JohnN

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 08:24:56 AM »
A teammate wants me to polish his ball to cut down on hook. I have a variety of siaair pads and different polishes. Will the ball break later using 4000 grit pad and extender polish ? Should I layer the polish ( regular polish then extender )? Using a spinner:

notclay

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 10:05:34 AM »
JohnN,

Each step of abrasive adds length, as opposed to 500, skip to 4000 etc, so if you start at 1000, as an example, use every grit up to 4000, then you can even try some compound (abrasives) before you finish with a polish that has slip agents to also create length. 
The potential downside to extreme polish and length is the over/under you can create on the lanes, but if you're bowling on the desert...
Lane Carter
Brunswick Regional Staff
Salt Lake City, Utah

JohnN

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 10:15:02 AM »
My teammate has a slower ball speed and is not real good at moving or changing hand positions. Ball goes and then breaks hard at the end. When he had this ball drilled he asked for a weaker drilling but got a pin up and slightly out from his ring finger. He wont buy a plastic ball so he uses a house ball for the 10 or 6-10.

thedjs

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 01:33:20 PM »
This may not help, but it does apply to what you asked.  I'm bowling on VERY DRY conditions in three houses (traveling league) and I an a senior with VERY SLOW BALL SPEED.  I bought an Ebonite Turbo/R which comes at 500/2000 Abralon and is highly polished.  It hooks a ton (for me) on the dry conditions and has forced me to move much further inside than I'm comfortable with.  (Don't like playing 5th arrow)  So, took it into the pro-shop and we changed the surface to 500/2000/4000 with polish.  I've only had a chance to throw it once since then but I did notice a difference in length (went longer) and may have cut down on the back-end.  I'll be trying it again next week in two houses and can probably tell then if it's going to work or not but I am encouraged with what I've seen so far. 

Hope this helps some.

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The grit under the polish. (Does it matter?)
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 02:22:42 PM »
The nuclear bomb in my experience for making plastic go straight is Turtle Wax (my little one is lets say rev dominant).  Obviously can't use in sanctioned events/leagues but if plastic with 5000 + polish + Turtle Wax hooks too much time to find a new house.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 02:33:14 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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