Post by: no300yet on February 06, 2010, 09:50:42 AM
Thanks to the tip from "JJ" I found those pads at bowlingbeat.com for US $4.25 each including shipping. I got mine in a week and they appear to be well made( made in Switzerland)but not by Brunswick(?).
I understand we are supposed to use them wet but what should I expect if I just use them dry, like a quick touch-up during the game?
Post by: charlest on February 06, 2010, 05:58:43 PM
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Doug Sterner on February 06, 2010, 06:09:29 PM
Abralon is made by Mirka in Switzerland and SiaAir is a similar set up.
I have only ever seen 180, 360, 500, 1000, 2000 and 4000 grit in Abralon and 500, 1000, 2000 and 4000 in SiaAir.
After going to an Ebonite seminar last week I found out that they use their Abralons for a total of 75 balls. Now they also said there is a 5-8 ball break in period with the pads BEFORE they actually get to the grit they are advertised at.
So maybe a 1500 grit finish could be a 2000 grit pad that isn't fully broken in yet ?
I do know they have 800 grit available now as the Abranet which resembles a sanding screen you would use for sanding drywall compound. Perhaps there is a 1500 available as well?
One word of caution regarding your final question...
quote:
... like a quick touch-up during the game?
This is considered altering the surface of a ball and is not allowed during USBC play so don't do it unless you are willing to let the ball sit out 6 frames of competition (USBC rule). Take it for what it's worth.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Post by: Billy Ray on February 06, 2010, 06:36:09 PM
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Post by: charlest on February 06, 2010, 07:04:37 PM
quote:
I believe during the so called Break-In period the pads are actually more agressive than what is printed. So a 2000 pad that is new may be 1500 until broken in.
--------------------
Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
Owner Rays Pro Shop
At The Playdium
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
While the pad may not be what Ebonite wants on its balls, I'll take Mirka and SiaAir's word on what grit level the pad is before I'd take Ebonite's word on it. If they say it's 2000 grit FEPA, it's 2000 grit FEPA.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: stormed1 on February 06, 2010, 08:32:17 PM
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Post by: dark_rising76 on February 06, 2010, 08:48:59 PM
Post by: Dennis Rhodes on February 06, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
Thanks,
Dennis Rhodes
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Brunswick Advisory Staff
Remember to accept my posts as my opinion, and not those of Bruswick.
Post by: Brickguy221 on February 06, 2010, 10:44:22 PM
quote:
After going to an Ebonite seminar last week I found out that they use their Abralons for a total of 75 balls. Now they also said there is a 5-8 ball break in period with the pads BEFORE they actually get to the grit they are advertised at.
How is it even possible for the pads to hold their grit for 75 balls???
Is this why people get different reactions among them out of the same line of balls when NIB?
I am not saying it isn't so as I have no proof, but I find it hard to believe that a pad will hold it's grit for 75 balls and sand every ball the same.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 06, 2010, 11:01:04 PM
Post by: nocarey on February 06, 2010, 11:20:42 PM
Post by: tburky on February 06, 2010, 11:53:36 PM
http://www.shop.innovativeballspinner.com/SIAAIR-Velvet-Pads-SIAAIR.htm?productId=10
Post by: tburky on February 07, 2010, 12:05:24 AM
quote:quote:
After going to an Ebonite seminar last week I found out that they use their Abralons for a total of 75 balls. Now they also said there is a 5-8 ball break in period with the pads BEFORE they actually get to the grit they are advertised at.
How is it even possible for the pads to hold their grit for 75 balls???
Is this why people get different reactions among them out of the same line of balls when NIB?
I am not saying it isn't so as I have no proof, but I find it hard to believe that a pad will hold it's grit for 75 balls and sand every ball the same.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
I would venture to say they use a surface profilometer to check the RA of the ball during production. Also, I imagine that is how they determine how many balls it takes before they get pad broke in.
Post by: J_Mac on February 07, 2010, 01:42:33 AM
Are they taking into account some differences in how it's done in the factory versus how it's done in a pro shop or even at home on their spinner?
A) The amount of water being used - Those familiar with a Haus Resurfacer know that you can vary the water flow. At the factory the water flow is set to the max and the slurry is filtered and recirculated through the system.
B) They are working with undrilled and possibly unlabeled balls - Inserts that stick out above the surface of a bowling ball will cause premature wear on a abrasive pad. Sharp edged holes, engraving and even beveled holes create areas of higher PSI against the pads. Again, this can cause premature wear.
C) I believe most companies are using 3 abrasive pads - Most people that do their own resurfacing are doing so by hand and using 1 pad for roughly 232 square inches of bowling ball surface. At the factory they are using 3 times the pads on a machine that uniformly resurfaces a ball with less "overlap" than using a spinner at home doing 4 sides of a bowling ball per grit.
Just something to consider...
This also may not apply to companies outside of Ebonite, Columbia, Hammer, Track, and Brunswick.
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Post by: gee on February 07, 2010, 10:13:11 AM
So if you use a 2000 sanding disc dry you could receive a 1500 grit wet -
Or just try on a jayhawk cock machine 3 different pads like 2x 2000 Grit and 1x 500 Grit is a total of 4500 Grit on 3 discs so we have 1500 Grit average
Post by: J_Mac on February 07, 2010, 10:31:37 AM
quote:
Or just try on a jayhawk cock machine 3 different pads like 2x 2000 Grit and 1x 500 Grit is a total of 4500 Grit on 3 discs so we have 1500 Grit average
Seriously?
Post by: Doug Sterner on February 07, 2010, 01:29:58 PM
Ebonite gets 75 balls out of a pad because of the way they do things.
If you use an Abralon or Sia Air on a spinner you tend to wear it out much faster for a few reasons:
1. it''s impossible to use totally even pressure on a pad on a spinner which will lead to premature and uneven wear
2. if you are using a pad on a spinner you are most likely dealing with a ball that has holes in it..these holes accelerate wear on the pads.
3. a ball spinner travels at roughly 500 rpm. a resurfacing machine rotates the ball at approx 25 rpm. this translates into faster pad wear.
4. when using a resurfacer it uses 3 pads instead of just 1 on a spinner. this spreads the wear out among the 3 discs instead of just the one.
5. there is no way to use the amount of water on a spinner than when Ebonite uses a resurfacer at the factory...they let the water run full stream and basically flood the surface of the ball with water. this not only removes the slurry from the ball but also lubricates the pads.
Also it was shown to us that Ebonite uses 4 separate machines to do each ball and each ball stays on each machine for only 56 seconds.
With all of these factors taken into account I can forsee how Ebonite gets that kind of wear out of a pad.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug''s Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
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Edited on 2/7/2010 2:41 PM
Post by: no300yet on February 07, 2010, 05:11:23 PM
quote:Are you serious? Even when the "game" is just practice? Just kidding
One word of caution regarding your final question...quote:
... like a quick touch-up during the game?
This is considered altering the surface of a ball and is not allowed during USBC play so don't do it unless you are willing to let the ball sit out 6 frames of competition (USBC rule). Take it for what it's worth.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
BowlingChat.net (http://"http://www.bowlingchat.net")
Thanks for the warning, Doug, I didn't know that!I tried to use the 1500 and 2000 during practice today( dry) and the ball surface didn't seem to last long( it kept losing 1 board every 7-8 shots on freshly oiled synthetic lanes). I suspect it's because I did it by hand and did not spend enough time on it. I'll spend more time to do it wet at home and see what happens.