BallReviews
General Category => Coverstock Preparation => Topic started by: psycaz on August 18, 2017, 11:05:25 AM
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I purchased a quart size bottle to save a few bucks early last year. Was very thick back then. Now the stuff is a runny as my RemedyRX.
I've only used say a quarter of the bottle as I use it sparingly. I'm worried about using it now since it's so thin, hate to ruin coverstocks.
Anyone guess what may have happened or offer a quality cleaner to use after sets to remove belt marks? The Remedy just isn't cleaning them off good enoug, even with a ton of hand pressure/rubbing.
Clean N Dull was the every 10-20 games thing to go to, but getting way more stuff on the balls now.
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C&D becoming thinner over time only means that whatever factor makes it into a gel, for ease of application, has deteriorated. I had a bottle like that. It did not affect its efficacy at all. Just be careful how you apply it; don't allow it to run all over the place.
Some other very good cleaners, approved for use anytime, are Knockout, Zapp-It, and Vise Cleaner. New ones enter the market all the time.
Hook-it is more effective than any of those, and approaches the power of Clean & Dull but, like, C&D, it needs to be used as carefully as possible, protecting hands and skin by using gloves, just like C&D. It, C&D and LMB International cleaner are the only 3 strong enough to remove belt marks, but LMB is no longer being made.
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I purchased a quart size bottle to save a few bucks early last year. Was very thick back then. Now the stuff is a runny as my RemedyRX.
I've only used say a quarter of the bottle as I use it sparingly. I'm worried about using it now since it's so thin, hate to ruin coverstocks.
Anyone guess what may have happened or offer a quality cleaner to use after sets to remove belt marks? The Remedy just isn't cleaning them off good enoug, even with a ton of hand pressure/rubbing.
Clean N Dull was the every 10-20 games thing to go to, but getting way more stuff on the balls now.
Might try either a first or last pass with straight 91% isopropyl alcohol (can put in cheap empty spray bottle from Walmart) when at the lanes. Its cheap and effective and perfectly safe for cover stocks (use it on all mine). I usually then hit my bowling balls with 1 part simple green to 5 parts water when I get home letting it sit a minute on each side before wiping off mostly as a just in case. Still as Charlest says (and he knows his stuff) continue to use your Clean and Dull. Nothing like it. I mostly use it after I hit any of my balls with 1000 grit or under before I go to the higher grits as it really opens the pores for the Clean and Dull but it can be used at any time except during a bowling session.
(edit: As far as a good commercial brand lane side ball cleaner had nothing but great results with Monster Tac ball cleaner from bowlingball.com but at a $1 an oz don't use except for big belt marks or on my Epoxy ball).
(edit2: Also think about getting yourself a good bowling shammy. One of the best ways to prevent problems and having to bake or deep clean later is to wipe off the oil on the ball every chance you get before the cover stock absorbs it. Have found with my Genesis shammy it actually greatly reduces the belt marks having to be cleaned at the end of the session because you wipe them off without even realizing it.)
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Thanks for the replies.
I have the Master shammies. Really love them. Just hate all the belt marks lately on mine and my sons stuff. I don't remember having that difficult of a time getting them off before either. Hard, yes. But lately they just don't want to come off.
I have the simple green mix, don't like using it due to the film concerns. Did use it for my son's stuff before his last tournament since I had nothing else. Then used a Remedy afterwards to remove any film the SG left behind. He bowled like crap. It sits in the back of my mind if that I may not have gotten off all the film. Everything failed to read like expected. I used two different microfiber towels too.
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Hook-it is more effective than any of those, and approaches the power of Clean & Dull but, like, C&D, it needs to be used as carefully as possible, protecting hands and skin by using gloves, just like C&D.
I've used most of the cleaners on the market without using gloves and haven't had any adverse effects (unless you count the hair sprouting out of my eyeballs).
SERIOUSLY -- Charlest is dead right, chemicals can be dangerous, use protection! -- JohnP
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I second the thought on potential film issues. C&D works great, but nothing ever rolled as expected post-cleaning. Didn't react right for at least 1-2 games. I'm going to do a separate product to clean residue and see if that helps. Hook-It, as mentioned, is also excellent, but I haven't seen the same film problem.....
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As a mater of general information, this is the procedure that was on the instructions for the original producer of C&D, APP (Advanced Polishing Products):
I suggest putting on a pair of rubber or nitrile gloves first.
Keep the surface of the ball that you are rubbing with C&D, wet with the C&D, on a good strong paper towel, for about 45 seconds. Wipe it off with a damp paper towel; then wipe off the dampness with a dry paper towel.
It is very simple but it is why it is often impractical to do at the bowling center, before putting your ball back in the bag.
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Thanks for the replies.
I have the Master shammies. Really love them. Just hate all the belt marks lately on mine and my sons stuff. I don't remember having that difficult of a time getting them off before either. Hard, yes. But lately they just don't want to come off.
I have the simple green mix, don't like using it due to the film concerns. Did use it for my son's stuff before his last tournament since I had nothing else. Then used a Remedy afterwards to remove any film the SG left behind. He bowled like crap. It sits in the back of my mind if that I may not have gotten off all the film. Everything failed to read like expected. I used two different microfiber towels too.
I really love how straight 91% iso melts lane oil like butter nearly instantly (and evaporates in seconds so no film) but so does Monster Tac (just have to give it 30 seconds to do its magic before wiping off but even more effective on belt marks) and others swear by Tac Up (haven't used that one myself). What I also love about iso is freedom to spray it liberally with very little concern about cost (can get a gallon for what many 4oz ball cleaners cost).
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I saw that Ebonite has a new cleaner called Tac Gel but I don't know if that's replacing Clean N' Dull. Hammer also has a few new cleaners and I got one (Tough N' Tacky) coming in the mail tomorrow that I'm going to try. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Thanks for the replies.
I have the Master shammies. Really love them. Just hate all the belt marks lately on mine and my sons stuff. I don't remember having that difficult of a time getting them off before either. Hard, yes. But lately they just don't want to come off.
I have the simple green mix, don't like using it due to the film concerns. Did use it for my son's stuff before his last tournament since I had nothing else. Then used a Remedy afterwards to remove any film the SG left behind. He bowled like crap. It sits in the back of my mind if that I may not have gotten off all the film. Everything failed to read like expected. I used two different microfiber towels too.
I really love how straight 91% iso melts lane oil like butter nearly instantly (and evaporates in seconds so no film) but so does Monster Tac (just have to give it 30 seconds to do its magic before wiping off but even more effective on belt marks) and others swear by Tac Up (haven't used that one myself). What I also love about iso is freedom to spray it liberally with very little concern about cost (can get a gallon for what many 4oz ball cleaners cost).
I tried 91% isopropanol again today after a practice session. Sorry, but for me it does not melt lane oil. My LMB International cleaner removes all traces of ground in lane oil that the 91% left behind. Hook-It also removes that lane oil.
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I saw that Ebonite has a new cleaner called Tac Gel but I don't know if that's replacing Clean N' Dull. Hammer also has a few new cleaners and I got one (Tough N' Tacky) coming in the mail tomorrow that I'm going to try. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Tac Gel is another product; it seems to be along side of Clean and Dull, not a replacement for it. It can be used during bowling; C&D cannot, near as I can tell. Tac Gel increases backend and increases overall hook (interesting). C&D does not affect length, backend, or overall hook.
https://www.powerhousebowling.com/cleaners-polishers (https://www.powerhousebowling.com/cleaners-polishers)
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Thanks for the replies.
I have the Master shammies. Really love them. Just hate all the belt marks lately on mine and my sons stuff. I don't remember having that difficult of a time getting them off before either. Hard, yes. But lately they just don't want to come off.
I have the simple green mix, don't like using it due to the film concerns. Did use it for my son's stuff before his last tournament since I had nothing else. Then used a Remedy afterwards to remove any film the SG left behind. He bowled like crap. It sits in the back of my mind if that I may not have gotten off all the film. Everything failed to read like expected. I used two different microfiber towels too.
I really love how straight 91% iso melts lane oil like butter nearly instantly (and evaporates in seconds so no film) but so does Monster Tac (just have to give it 30 seconds to do its magic before wiping off but even more effective on belt marks) and others swear by Tac Up (haven't used that one myself). What I also love about iso is freedom to spray it liberally with very little concern about cost (can get a gallon for what many 4oz ball cleaners cost).
I tried 91% isopropanol again today after a practice session. Sorry, but for me it does not melt lane oil. My LMB International cleaner removes all traces of ground in lane oil that the 91% left behind. Hook-It also removes that lane oil.
Very possible it varies by conditioner used and type of lanes. Since I bowl on mostly corporate fairly modern hard synthetics with modern machines the oil doesn't seem near as gummy as some other places I remember and belt marks are fairly rare (which I admit does take elbow grease with alky). YMMV. Have a feeling as I bowl only maybe 20 games a week tops mostly during open bowling might make it easier for me as well.
(edit: oh yeah a good portion of my games consist of only urethane and plastic ball as well but when I do throw reactives the oil still largely in liquid form and sheen comes right off as well)
(edit2: the commercial ball cleaners are going to be better for most part but not that much better that I have seen worth paying 25x more for them especially with second simple green cleaning at home).
Link that sold me on isopropyl but to each his own - https://bowler2bowler.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/bowling-ball-cleaner-experiments-101-by-james-goulding-iii/
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That was my first thought: the lane oils they use here in NJ may be different from yours, requiring a stronger agent. More than a few people have found success with 91% and higher percentages of isopropyl alcohol.
I truly wish the 91% iso would work as well for me as it does for you. It is SO much cheaper and probably safer to use.
I don't know about 25x cheaper but it's cheap enough to make a difference. I feel, though, it's best for me to thoroughly clean the oil off the ball.
Such is life.
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Yeah at end of the day what matters is minimizing the oil in the cover stocks especially for the reactives and best to error on what works for sure. Spent time in NJ (Warren area) and definitely a different climate with real old school stuff compared to here in Sonora land where a 50 yo building is considered historical.
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I love the Genesis Pure Pads! They work great!
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For me, a mix of simple green and iso alcohol is more than good enough. Gets rid of the oil. Does a decent job getting the belt marks off - just need to put a little effort in if they are stubborn. No film either. I bowl quite a bit, so it saves a lot of money. My balls seem to react the same.
Beyond that, I change the surface as needed and throw them in my PSO's oven whenever I feel that a deep clean is needed (or I've used the bucket method in the past). No need to deal with the harsher chemicals.
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It might be hard to see on a bowling ball, but a 1:1:1 mix of Simple Green/water/alcohol leaves a film on glass. I had some odd spots on my windshield that wouldn't come off with glass cleaner, so I used my Simple Green mixture. It removed the spots easily, but left a nasty film afterwards. I'm cheap so I might continue to use it as a cleaner, but I will finish up with either straight alcohol or an actual bowling ball cleaner.
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Try 5 parts water to one part simple green. It still works remarkably well and no film I have noticed (simple green made to be diluted with water). Chemists I have seen online say don't mix alcohol with simple green in same mixture as it makes both less effective cleaners. But one after another on the ball is the ticket.
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
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I saw that Ebonite has a new cleaner called Tac Gel but I don't know if that's replacing Clean N' Dull. Hammer also has a few new cleaners and I got one (Tough N' Tacky) coming in the mail tomorrow that I'm going to try. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Tac Gel is another product; it seems to be along side of Clean and Dull, not a replacement for it. It can be used during bowling; C&D cannot, near as I can tell. Tac Gel increases backend and increases overall hook (interesting). C&D does not affect length, backend, or overall hook.
https://www.powerhousebowling.com/cleaners-polishers (https://www.powerhousebowling.com/cleaners-polishers)
Good to know about that Tac Gel. I got a chance to use the Tough N' Tacky on two of my balls after league tonight and it makes the ball extremely tacky. The liquid is pretty runny like the current Clean N' Dull bottles but you don't have to use much on it. It did clean the balls very well like the Tac Gel, it can be used anytime.
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91% isopropyl will take off most surface dirt, belt marks, etc. and the lane oil that wiping with a towel would remove. It won't remove oil that's down in the cover stock. Heat is best for removing that oil, but some cleaners will get part of it. -- JohnP
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>but some cleaners will get part of it.
Which is why imo as a part of a resurface after the first step of the lowest grit sanding its a good idea to hit the ball with some C&D before going to the next grit. Sanding with low grit really opens the pores and the next step sanding will remove any possible C&D residue.
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
Please be sure to use gloves. That stuff is scary on bare skin.
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
Please be sure to use gloves. That stuff is scary on bare skin.
Is that where my finger nails went and why my teeth glow phosphorescent green in the dark???? :)
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
Please be sure to use gloves. That stuff is scary on bare skin.
Is that where my finger nails went and why my teeth glow phosphorescent green in the dark???? :)
And your pet fish is named Blinky!!
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
Please be sure to use gloves. That stuff is scary on bare skin.
Is that where my finger nails went and why my teeth glow phosphorescent green in the dark???? :)
And your pet fish is named Blinky!!
But I only clean him once a week with C&D???
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Picked up a bottle of Hook-it. Very impressed. Took off the very stubborn belt marks that the thin CnD wouldn't get.
I'll probably go back and reclean everything of my son's that I cleaned prior. Just to feel better that there isn't something left behind from the simple green combo I used.
At this point, I'm gonna consider the CnD bottle toast. I might use it to clean stuff as something in between Remedy and Hook-it, but really won't depend on it working like it should.
Please be sure to use gloves. That stuff is scary on bare skin.
Is that where my finger nails went and why my teeth glow phosphorescent green in the dark???? :)
And your pet fish is named Blinky!!
But I only clean him once a week with C&D???
That's why he has 3 eyes!
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Gloves were used.