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Author Topic: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?  (Read 24507 times)

DukeHarding

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Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« on: February 22, 2008, 01:21:48 AM »
A while back, I used hair dryers, heat lamps, hot water, and ovens to extract oil.
I did experiments on a couple of NIB balls, that had never touched a lane.

Found that heat lamps, hot water, and hair dryers, ALL made something come out of the ball. Some balls released more liquid than other.
Thought that it couldn't be OIL, so guessed that it was plasticizer.

Do you think bleeding out plasticizer is a problem?


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chatnboy

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 12:08:32 AM »
zfennell...what the hell did you just say???

purduepaul

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 07:47:31 AM »
From our point of view, I do not think we have ever done a test with the revivor and a brand new ball, I'll go pick one out today and try it.  The problem with the heat source methodology (Hair dryers, ovens....) You can NOT keep a constant temperature on the ball.  That temperature may be different for different companies.  We have our revivor set at 140F.  

Nick, I don't think I did that test, however now I'm curious.

Paul
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 08:10:02 AM »
A few years back, I did a test on a Fuze Igniter using my rejuvenator.  The ball belonged to my teammate at the time and had been thrown 100's of games without ever being cleaned/rejuvenated.  I put the ball in the unit and allowed it to complete a cycle.  I pulled the ball out, set it in a large metal mixing bowl, and rinsed off the "liquid" from the surface of the ball with acetone.  The acetone and "liquid" collected in the bottom of the metal bowl.  I transferred this to a sample vial and took it to my lab.  There I evaporated the acetone from the sample, leaving behind the "liquid".  I analyzed the "liquid" using GC/MS (our lab is set up specifically for oils/hydrocarbon analysis) and didn't find a single trace of oil.  It was primarily two or three chemicals, which in the literature were reported as being plasticizers and templates.  

So what are plasticizers/templates?  

Plasticizers are compounds added to plastic mixture to soften it or give it more flexibility.  A template is a compound added to a plastic mixture to promote or enhance the production of porosity upon curing.  


The amount of this material that is able to be extracted from any given ball is very likely directly related to the specific formulation used in the production of the coverstock material.  

I'm not 100% sure what happened to that data (probably saved somewhere on my computer).. I'll see if I can dig it up again.. if not, I will repeat the tests.. this time I will analyze a sample of lane oil and compare it to a sample of "liquid" removed from a ball during rejuvenation.

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purduepaul

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2008, 10:12:49 AM »
I just took a brand new ball to 500, put it in the revivor for two hours at 140F

Not a drop.
"Oops, Looks like we are going to need another timmy."  -Dr Lizard, "Dinosaurs"

Aloarjr810

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2008, 10:40:52 AM »
For some more info take a look at Ebonites "Why Do Bowling Balls Die?" article
story is 4 pages with pictures and diagrams.

Click Here Why Balls Die

Heres a sample-


"What Creates The Hook Is Also What Kills It
Plasticizer migration does two things in high concentrations. First, it slows oil
absorption, which is one of the reasons for loss in ball performance. Second, and
more importantly, migration concentrates plasticizer in the track area of the
ball."

"The Reactive Ball Death Theory
It’s more plasticizer saturation than lane oil absorption"

" Diagram 5 shows the effects of heat on a coverstock. Notice the sweating of
plasticizer on the surface of the coverstock as heat is applied."

"Particle ball death can be largely attributed to the migration of the
plasticizer as well as degradation of the particle, specifically glass bubble
particles."
Aloarjr810
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NicholasE

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2008, 10:52:53 AM »
quote:
For some more info take a look at Ebonites "Why Do Bowling Balls Die?" article
story is 4 pages with pictures and diagrams.

Click Here Why Balls Die

Heres a sample-


"What Creates The Hook Is Also What Kills It
Plasticizer migration does two things in high concentrations. First, it slows oil
absorption, which is one of the reasons for loss in ball performance. Second, and
more importantly, migration concentrates plasticizer in the track area of the
ball."

"The Reactive Ball Death Theory
It’s more plasticizer saturation than lane oil absorption"

" Diagram 5 shows the effects of heat on a coverstock. Notice the sweating of
plasticizer on the surface of the coverstock as heat is applied."

"Particle ball death can be largely attributed to the migration of the
plasticizer as well as degradation of the particle, specifically glass bubble
particles."


Thats pretty interesting, guess ebonite would be the first to know seeing to it that they tend to have a lot of ball death problems.
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Holiday

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2008, 09:40:31 AM »
Take an EPXT1 and put it in the revivor and see what you get...  I am not saying this is a blanket statement for every ball, but I know for a fact, that you will get some plasticizer to come out.  You may have to open up the lid after it warms up and check it periodically.  It will get nice and 'wet.'


DON DRAPER

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 01:54:48 PM »
just last friday i had my brunswick bvp rampage and total inferno run thru the rejuvenator and the haus ball resurfacing machine and they both roll and hit like they were new.

charlest

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2008, 11:18:49 AM »
quote:
quote:
brunswick testing has show that using a rejuvenator will sweat the oil out of a ball with no bleeding of plasticizers


..their comment relates to only Brunswick balls...yes/no?



True, and not true. While their testing probably relates only to their balls, it has been shown to be true to many brands of bowling balls, if only because heat, when used properly, has shown to rejuvenate bowling balls, by extracting oil (at least) from them.

quote:

i think it only fair to consider that each company may have different levels of porosity and plasticizer in their covers.



Many companies use different suppliers of resin material. Heck, (as far as I know) even though Storm owns Roto-Grip and manufactures RG on the same assembly line, Roto-Grip uses a different resin supplier than Storm. So it is possible thatthe resins used by the different ball manufactrers may be very different from one other OR very similar. Not being a resin chemist, I cannot say for sure.

quote:

howvever, many people have assumed that bleeding plasticizer out is bad,
yet "hook again" folks say bleeding plasticizer out is THE objective.



I think you have the subject right, but the process wrong. The object of Hook Again, as far as I have read and understood, is NOT to bleed the plasticizer out, but to allow the Hook Again material to absorb the plasticizer that has migrated to the surface and is preventing the resin from absorbing the oil, the EBonite method of "hooking" or providing the extra hook we see today.

I strongly doubt that the powder used by Hook AGain, actually goes down into the substrate of the resin and "sucks" out all the plasticizer. After all, that would basically make a resin ball into a urethane ball (to put a very simplistic tilt on the subject).


quote:

...and everyone conceeds that heat is a mechanism which removes both oil and/or  plasticizer from the cover. If you screw up you may damage the ball structurally, but no one has identified any potential chemical damage to the cover material.   ??

-bill


I believe it has been shown that heat is not detrimental to bowling balls, anymore than heat is detrimental to human beings. Just because we suffer a lot when the temperature goes above 100 degrees Fahrenheit, does not mean we keep our thermostats at 32 degrees all the time. The same comparison is applicable to resin bowling balls. The safety range for bowling balls is in the 140 - 150 degree range, from all I have read and been led to understand. Above that the oily substance removed is plasticizer (plus lane oil, if it is present); below that temperature, it is only lane oil that is removed.

That said, I have read here on ballreviews that people have successfully rejuvenated Ebonite manufactured balls, as well as othe rbrands, using the heat methods: dishwashers, hot water baths, Revivors, Rejuvenators, black plastic bags on the patio placed in the sun in the South or the West during the Summer (kind of dangerous since the temperature is not regulated).

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Edited on 4/6/2008 11:22 AM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2008, 01:13:54 PM »
No specific references except
- the documentaiton that comes with the Revivvor and the Rejuvenator. They let you set a temperature and give that range, and
- several people who represent several bowling manufacturers have stated that range in their posts here. These were/are people who work in the design sections and the technical sections of the manufacturers. They used to post here regularly, before the "children" here at ballreviews drove them away with their petty and puerile criticisms.

There are actually a few people involved in the chemical and resin industries who are bowlers and post here on ballreviews.

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charlest

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2008, 04:50:50 PM »
quote:
so far i believe this thread has been quite well mannered and i definitely appreciate all of the observations that others have contributed.

i think you missed my point regarding a reference for your quote.
it was the bold part i was referring to:
"Above that the oily substance removed is plasticizer (plus lane oil, if it is present); below that temperature, it is only lane oil that is removed. "
 


the 140-150F temperature makes sense for a few reasons,
but i was particularly interested in why you believe the oil and plasticizer behave differently at that specific reference temperature?



Because people whom I assume know said so.

quote:

i know you mentioned it before in this thread, but i have not found it mentioned anywhere else.



I didn't say it was mentioned in this thread. It has beenmentioned many times over the past 5 years or so in ballreviews.

quote:

perhaps i'm also missing your real point.
i know you support methods like the rejeuvenator. (me too)
do you have an opinion regarding any possible role of plasticizers in "ball death" or damage that may result if they are removed ?

regards,
-bill
Edited on 4/6/2008 3:24 PM


Bill,

As far as I have learned, again, from people who I assume know, plasticizers are what make urethane into resin. Remove all the plasticizers from resin and you have urethane or no hook.

People have put new, unused balls into ovens and into intensely heated summer car trunks in the South and out came an oily substance. Since it couldn't have been lane oil, I can only assume it must have been plasticizers or their catalysts.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2008, 08:46:51 PM »
BIll,

Again, you're making assumptions about the chemical process of making resin. You shouldn't do that until you talk to a resin chemist.
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Kid Jete

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2008, 09:03:24 PM »
quote:
BIll,

Again, you're making assumptions about the chemical process of making resin. You shouldn't do that until you talk to a resin chemist.
--------------------
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It does make sense what he's saying though.  Whether it be right or not it's certainly believable lol.  I can't believe a ball manufacturer hasn't come forward with a definitive answer considering I have seen this talked about for many years.

Edited on 4/6/2008 9:03 PM

Kid Jete

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 05:17:38 PM »
quote:
Bowling ball chemistry, according to bill.
The following is my interpretation of the offerings cited in this thread.

Bowling ball covers are principally urethane compounds and by themselves have the hardness and coefficient of friction to function as a bowling ball. Did you know there is a regulation for bowling ball hardness (75 ShoreD)?

In the presence of oil, urethanes and everything else have reduced friction or traction on the lanes.

So the bowling gods invented “reactive resin”
The truth is (according to bill with a few references cited above) there is little difference between the actual resins used in either product. However the reactive coverstocks are made porous to  allow for the absorption of lane oil.

The blowing agents used to create porosity are well known plasticizers normally used in the formulation of plastics like PVC to make them softer or more flexible.

However when combined with the ingredients for urethane these plasticizers are intended to only dilute the mixture and not react (form a chemical interaction) with the urethane.
However one of the references did indicated that there is some softening of the urethane by the plasticizers (which forced the resin 'designer' to make harder urethanes)

Prior to the cure phase the plasticizer is uniformly dispersed throughout the mixture of urethane resins and catalyst. Upon heating to approx (140-160F) the urethane becomes a solid while the liquid dispersion of plasticizer expands within. After cooling, the plasticizer contracts leaving a porous matrix within the coverstock material.

TXIB (a clear oily liquid) is one plasticizer mentioned. It has a low vapor pressure and high boiling point (540F). The result is that it is not very volatile and not likely to become a gas during normal cure temperatures or evaporate out of the shell during normal use.

So in all likelihood the majority of the plasticizer dispersed throughout the coverstock during the cure phase of the ball is still there when your ball is delivered, NIB
(Examples in the Bayer patents put the amount of plasticizer at 42%, by weight, of the cover ingredients. YIKES!)

So if you put your NIB ball in the oven and heat it up to 140-150 that would expand the plasticizer close to where it was when the ball was curing, and virtually fill all the voids.

If any the plasticizer has migrated towards the outer portions of the shell, the voids behind the liquid would easily expand upon heating and drive the liquid out.

Additionally lane oil/conditioner which is mostly mineral oil also has a low vapor pressure and relatively high boiling point (500F). Again, it not volatile at room temps and not likely to evaporate out on it own.  

If heated, any oil absorbed by the cover would be the first element to be driven out of the matrix as both the oil and gaseous voids expand. Theoretically it makes sense that you need more heat to remove plasticizers, because they originate deeper in the shell.
But if the ‘HOOK AGAIN’ folks are correct in suggesting that the plasticizer migrates to the shell exterior, any expanding gas in the underlying porosity should  easily drive the liquid out when heated. As stated the HOOH AGAIN folks do not condone the use of heat. My only concern with the HOOK AGAIN approach to removing the liquids with some form of absorbent is the efficiency of their suggested process. But to their credit their story is the one most consistent with the details uncovered to date. So I’d let folks decide for themselves

Well that’s my story and I’m stickin to it.

-bill


Edited on 4/9/2008 5:11 PM



Cool read.  So we could come to a reasonable conclusion that even if plasticizer was removed from the ball while using an oil extraction method it shouldn't effect the balls performance because plasticizer is used to create pores in the coverstock not reaction chemically with the urethane ingredients.  Obviously this isn't fact, only my assumption after reading the research you did, but seems to make sense.

Edited on 4/9/2008 5:18 PM

Lane1Redneck

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Re: Heat removing plasticizers from bowling balls?
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2008, 05:27:00 PM »
So if you then keep your temps below 140 you should only be seeing oil/conditioner come out of your ball, not plastercizer ?  No ? And would be safe to say that would not harm you ball ?


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Edited on 4/9/2008 5:28 PM