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Author Topic: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question  (Read 11310 times)

TheGom

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Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« on: June 27, 2014, 07:34:15 PM »
Looking at a Storm Fusion and knowing that it has a hybrid coverstock my question is this...

I understand that this coverstock is a blend of a Solid and a Pearl and that no two shells are poured the same way, meaning equal parts in certain areas of the ball.

So, is it possible that a ball can turn out with a higher percentage of the solid or Pearl additives in the track area then others?

Would this make each ball have a slightly different length....solid shorter and Pearl longer?

I was looking at two different Fusions and one was mainly gold in the track area and the other was mainly blue in the track area and got me thinking about this, thus the question.

Thanks in Advance

 

charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2014, 07:07:24 PM »
But since you are or seem to be rev and ball speed matched, wouldn't you also need a tester who is speed dominant and then one who is rev dominant to do a test whose results cannot be disputed???

You could try a lot of different things to see what the results are for each no doubt.

I only give the simple assumption that throwing each over a series of shots if there is such a true difference should easily be seen.

Nothing more nothing less. Not saying it is perfect, but if marketing is correct then shouldn't we see the obvious?

I think/believe that the differences between speed dominant and rev dominant can show a significant change in what the reaction difference is in more than just the differences between solid, hybrid and pearl. I know that different surfaces can show reaction differences between degrees of grit levels (1500, 2000, 3000 & 4000) and between different levels of polish for rev dominant types, while speed dominant types see only 2 differences, dull and polished.

More than one manufacturer has introduced a ball, which wound up being a hybrid, but was not "MARKETED" as a hybrid. While some balls are there just for the marketing hype, I believe and think that more than one is there because the manufacturer saw, via testing, that there is a difference among those 3 types.

As a simple example, I think that speed dominant types will see little difference between a polished Hy-Road Pearl and a polished Hy-Road Solid, while rev dominant types will see a true and real difference between them.

Because you as a matched rev/speed bowler do not see the difference, does not mean there isn't a difference.

"The eye of the beholder"
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 07:09:12 PM by charlest »
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2014, 07:10:42 PM »
Surface is surface....not the alleged composition of the cover
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charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2014, 09:00:59 PM »
Surface is surface....not the alleged composition of the cover

We cannot assume the manufacturer is lying when they specify the coverstock's composition. if we do, we walk down a quagmire of potential obfuscation: we blur the distinction that we must assume is true. We cannot wait for some independent to test every coverstock before we buy a ball.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2014, 10:05:23 PM »
Uhm ok *wink wink*
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2014, 10:09:10 PM »
Would a helix quantum be considered the 1st hybrid?  I mean really, how were they able to get the ball to cure as well as they did since the big track area was reactive resin and the the other part urethane? 

If interested Here's the Patent for the Helix:

http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/48/335/058/0.pdf

A lot of interesting info on it and it tells what the coverstock is made of.

excerpt:
"In the best mode contemplated by the inventors, the material of the band 20 is a cured mixture of liquid polyol having the trade name Baytec 153B mixed with a liquid isocyanate having the trade name Baytec 151A. By weight the mixture comprises 60-70%, more preferably 65%, Baytec 153 B and 30-40%, more preferably 35%, Baytec 151A. The material of the end caps or segments 16, 18 is a cured mixture of liquid polyol having the trade name Baytec 174B mixed with Baytec 151A isocyanate. By weight the end cap mixture comprises 60-75%, more preferably 67 %, Baytec 174B and 25-40%, more preferably 33%, Baytec 151A. The Baytec materials are available from Bayer Inc., 100 Bayer Road, Pittsburgh, Pa. U.S.A. 15205-9741. "
Aloarjr810
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JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2014, 10:17:32 PM »
Bill Wassberger had numerous patterns this just one of them
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northface28

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2014, 10:18:50 PM »
NLMB 150 Dream Team
#NoTalking
#HellaBandz

JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2014, 10:21:51 PM »
Curious what's unbelievable by my response?
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2014, 10:36:52 PM »
Bill Wassberger had numerous patterns this just one of them
numerous "Patents"

Though according to the helix patent. the inventors are Paul Ellis & Brian Hearl, though it cites him as a reference .
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 10:50:35 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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kidlost2000

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2014, 10:38:53 PM »
You do not have to believe the manufactures because too many times they do not tell the whole truth.

As someone who loves the overseas equipment in many cases it is a color and name change with a different box finish only.

Many times they change the name of the cover on the "new" release overseas so it will not read the same as the original release that was a month prior. Who is to say that in many cases with newer coverstocks today they aren't really new. Morich seemed to use a lot of PK18 mixes to make bowling balls that were nothing like the original bowling balls that used PK18 and had new names for sale to the public.

Instead of calling it PK18,20,22,24 they used names like "premium hybrid coverstock" ect ect. It leads me to believe more and more justricos comments that nothing has changed significantly in bowling for many years. Just the names and some of the mixtures.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2014, 02:44:24 PM »
Uhm ok *wink wink*

Rico, You are a panic. I mean that positively. I surrender.  :)
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2014, 02:48:36 PM »
You do not have to believe the manufactures because too many times they do not tell the whole truth.

As someone who loves the overseas equipment in many cases it is a color and name change with a different box finish only.

Many times they change the name of the cover on the "new" release overseas so it will not read the same as the original release that was a month prior. Who is to say that in many cases with newer coverstocks today they aren't really new. Morich seemed to use a lot of PK18 mixes to make bowling balls that were nothing like the original bowling balls that used PK18 and had new names for sale to the public.

Instead of calling it PK18,20,22,24 they used names like "premium hybrid coverstock" ect ect. It leads me to believe more and more justricos comments that nothing has changed significantly in bowling for many years. Just the names and some of the mixtures.

I have to agree with this 110%. I've seen "PK 18 - based" coverstocks that can be longer with less backend and ones with the same description that hook earlier with a HUGE backend and every variation in between, and that's just Brunswick, MoRich and older Lane#1 balls. Radical now joins that queue. I wish more people used Brunswick's coverstock supplier with all the variations therein.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

kidlost2000

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2014, 03:09:26 PM »
It is amazing when you throw a ball like the Ntense Levrg which was a "pearlized" ball and by far one of the biggest overall hooking bowling balls I have every thrown. My brother had one and we both were in awe of this thing.

(We both got them on closeout a year or two after release so it wasn't like it was the current hook monster of the month ball.)

Then later when I asked about the cover because of curiosity as a Brunswick fan trying to keep track of which covers are what he said it was PK18 with some additive. Asked about the N'sane leverg I owned even later which was  a much smoother overall ball. Same reply. Then this passed week about the Ravage vi and he replied again PK18 with 1% Potters Glass.

I believe he is being honest and really wonder how much things have really changed as mentioned. Would be curious to learn about other manufactures as well in that respect. Not that we would ever really know. lol
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

charlest

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2014, 03:49:12 PM »
It is amazing when you throw a ball like the Ntense Levrg which was a "pearlized" ball and by far one of the biggest overall hooking bowling balls I have every thrown. My brother had one and we both were in awe of this thing.

(We both got them on closeout a year or two after release so it wasn't like it was the current hook monster of the month ball.)

Then later when I asked about the cover because of curiosity as a Brunswick fan trying to keep track of which covers are what he said it was PK18 with some additive. Asked about the N'sane leverg I owned even later which was  a much smoother overall ball. Same reply. Then this passed week about the Ravage vi and he replied again PK18 with 1% Potters Glass.

I believe he is being honest and really wonder how much things have really changed as mentioned. Would be curious to learn about other manufactures as well in that respect. Not that we would ever really know. lol

While the Solid LevRG was not a big hooking ball, I got one of my strongest reacting resin balls from it and the pin was over the middle finger, PSA was in the thumb hole and the CG would up having 5/8 oz negative side weight. (I could care less what negative weight it had) and through all this, the coverstock was a Mo-"modified" Pk 18 as far as I knew. Even polished no PK18 solid ever had the reaction that ball had for me. I also had 2 original LevRGs and I never got the reaction from that ball that I got from the Solid LevRG.

Brunswick should have let Mo design/finagle some of their coverstocks!
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JustRico

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Re: Hybrid Coverstocks.....Question
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2014, 05:30:26 PM »
I'm a panic? First I was unbelievable now a panic...I'm confused
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
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