BallReviews
General Category => Coverstock Preparation => Topic started by: xrayjay on February 04, 2015, 11:06:27 AM
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Are all hybrids 50/50 mix of pearl and solid? I really don't know much about hybrids and why the Hyroad is so damn good and others not so much.
Also, I know some bowlers who don't like using hybrid covers - too over under for them. is this true for you?
Finally, I"ve owned different hybrid covered balls and the only one I really like and used a lot was the hyroad. The rest I sold rather quickly....
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No, "hybrid" just means a mix of more than one type of cover stock. One example of a solid hybrid would be the Storm Major 52. It had two different solid cover stocks instead of a solid and a pearl.
I think most people do assume that hybrid means solid and pearl though.
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Hybrids are not 50/50 mixes all the time and like Milo said, a hybrid just means more than 1 coverstock used (solid/solid, solid/pearl, pearl/pearl, solid/solid/pearl...)
I've had really good success with Hybrids, I've had a Rogue Cell, Crossroad, and now a Virtual Energy
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It had slipped my mind, Besides the Hyroad, the cross road is a good ball too. Different look in the backend vs the Hyroad. What were the "mix" or blend with these two balls?
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Hybrid = marketing
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It had slipped my mind, Besides the Hyroad, the cross road is a good ball too. Different look in the backend vs the Hyroad. What were the "mix" or blend with these two balls?
No clue, different core numbers though..
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It had slipped my mind, Besides the Hyroad, the cross road is a good ball too. Different look in the backend vs the Hyroad. What were the "mix" or blend with these two balls?
No clue, different core numbers though..
The CrossRoad had a slightly different core. Inverted Fe3 instead of Fe2 on the HyRoad. I think the cover was slightly different too. IIRC, the HyRoad is considered to be 50% solid, 50% pearl.
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Agreed on marketing. It has already been stated that pearl is for aesthetics not ball reaction. Pearlized balls look pretty when shinned on the shelf more so then solids most of the time. If I put out two of the exact same ball and one cover was sanded and the other polished you would be less likely to buy both. Hybrid allows me to sucker you for a third time on the same product.
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Sucker is a strong word...
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Agreed on marketing. It has already been stated that pearl is for aesthetics not ball reaction. Pearlized balls look pretty when shinned on the shelf more so then solids most of the time. If I put out two of the exact same ball and one cover was sanded and the other polished you would be less likely to buy both. Hybrid allows me to sucker you for a third time on the same product.
Kid is pretty much right. I see it as...
The solid is for when I'm on oil, pearl for when I'm not.
Usually for me the hybrid when its not polished works best. I mean cmon its their third crack and perfecting the product, it should be!
Rogue cell and sinister (first in its line) work really well for me. Still have the rogue cell in the rotation!!! I must be a sucker 8)
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Maybeso, but I didn't have a lot of success with the original Virtual Gravity sanded, polished didn't matter.
I had two Virtual Energies and just killed it with both of them.
Must have been that Pear Berry scent. ;D ;D
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Maybeso, but I didn't have a lot of success with the original Virtual Gravity sanded, polished didn't matter.
I had two Virtual Energies and just killed it with both of them.
Must have been that Pear Berry scent. ;D ;D
My VE was awesome!
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Sucker is a strong word...
So is pompas, maybe they go to the same gym.
After the definitions given for what people have read online or been told what a "hybrid" coverstock is I'd say "sucker" is pretty accurate. In all fairness the difference will be surface or slight change in strength of coverstock. Marketing however will not confirm or deny it.
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It's pompous ass...thank you
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Sucker is a strong word...
So is pompas, maybe they go to the same gym.
After the definitions given for what people have read online or been told what a "hybrid" coverstock is I'd say "sucker" is pretty accurate. In all fairness the difference will be surface or slight change in strength of coverstock. Marketing however will not confirm or deny it.
The world is never that cut and dried.
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It's pompous ass...thank you
After google-ing pompas I am done for the night. I can not stop laughing.....kinda of like when I hear someone say I really hope they release a hybrid next in this ball.
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Are all hybrids 50/50 mix of pearl and solid? I really don't know much about hybrids and why the Hyroad is so damn good and others not so much.
Also, I know some bowlers who don't like using hybrid covers - too over under for them. is this true for you?
Finally, I"ve owned different hybrid covered balls and the only one I really like and used a lot was the hyroad. The rest I sold rather quickly....
I've heard of some being 70% pearl/30% solid, and others being more solid than pearl. There's also solid hybrids (2 or more solid covers mixed), pearl hybrids (2 or more pearl covers mixed), hybrid urethane and hybrid urethane/reactive covers. It just depends on the specific ball.
Having used a Hy-Road for a while, I think it was and still is a good combo of core and cover. When I had mine, it provided a good benchmark reaction that I could use to determine if I should ball up, ball down, or stay with it. Ultimately I replaced it with a Sigma Sting back in summer 2014 and it has worked out very well. It's close overall to the Hy-Road benchmark reaction except a little cleaner up front, still reads the mids well and has a little more angle on the back.
I've had success with hybrids such as the Rogue Cell, Hy-Road and Frantic. I'll still use the Rogue Cell and Frantic when the conditions call for them. In my league last year, both were typically in the bag and the Frantic was great when the lanes started to burn up. The Rogue Cell was the strongest ball I needed and it worked well on the fresh while allowing me to move left as needed.
The Infinite Theory was a good hybrid when I could actually use it. That ball turned out to be too condition specific for my game. I could easily use something else in the arsenal the vast majority of the time and ended up deciding to sell it.
Ultimately, it all depends on the bowler, surface and conditions. If you have the wrong ball/surface on the wrong pattern, you will get over/under. However, if you have the right ball/surface on the right pattern, you'll be scoring lights out. That's regardless if you're using a ball with a solid, pearl or hybrid cover.
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The below quote was written in reference to the new guru. Pay attention to what is written and this conversation posted by the OP.
"here is a little skinny for you guys regarding the cover and core combo. first off the core is the same as the original Guru, identical numbers, shape and density. secondly the cover is the same base resin formula. So how does it perform so differently you may ask.
We dye our resins we do not use pigment so there is no impact of color on the performance of our shells. We do use additives to get the desired length and shape regarding ball motion.
When you look at the ball it will have a solid blue and a pearl "looking" green color combo. In reality they are both the same resin, its esthetic only. We used an additive combination to create the exact motion. If we desired we could make a solid black ball roll exactly like a skid flip pearl. This is the newest technology in the market. that is why the Guru does what it does and why the new Guru can actually offer a totally new performance, it is a great ball and I guarantee you will all be pleasantly surprised."
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The rogue cell, sinister, and crux are 2/3 one, 1/3 the other.
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The below quote was written in reference to the new guru. Pay attention to what is written and this conversation posted by the OP.
"here is a little skinny for you guys regarding the cover and core combo. first off the core is the same as the original Guru, identical numbers, shape and density. secondly the cover is the same base resin formula. So how does it perform so differently you may ask.
We dye our resins we do not use pigment so there is no impact of color on the performance of our shells. We do use additives to get the desired length and shape regarding ball motion.
When you look at the ball it will have a solid blue and a pearl "looking" green color combo. In reality they are both the same resin, its esthetic only. We used an additive combination to create the exact motion. If we desired we could make a solid black ball roll exactly like a skid flip pearl. This is the newest technology in the market. that is why the Guru does what it does and why the new Guru can actually offer a totally new performance, it is a great ball and I guarantee you will all be pleasantly surprised."
Let me guess, this isn't "marketing". Or, do you have to wait for JustRico to give his opinion so you can regurgitate it?
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The below quote was written in reference to the new guru. Pay attention to what is written and this conversation posted by the OP.
"here is a little skinny for you guys regarding the cover and core combo. first off the core is the same as the original Guru, identical numbers, shape and density. secondly the cover is the same base resin formula. So how does it perform so differently you may ask.
We dye our resins we do not use pigment so there is no impact of color on the performance of our shells. We do use additives to get the desired length and shape regarding ball motion.
When you look at the ball it will have a solid blue and a pearl "looking" green color combo. In reality they are both the same resin, its esthetic only. We used an additive combination to create the exact motion. If we desired we could make a solid black ball roll exactly like a skid flip pearl. This is the newest technology in the market. that is why the Guru does what it does and why the new Guru can actually offer a totally new performance, it is a great ball and I guarantee you will all be pleasantly surprised."
I think this thing that Phils post somehow is saying and confirms that "pearlizing" is merely for aesthetics, isn't what he said.
His post was talking about the Guru and the Guru Mighty and someone asked if it was a pearl.
And as I read it, All he said was that they both used the same BASE RESIN, but the Mighty used a New type of additive to that base resin to give it the motion that they wanted it to have.
And that the colors they used "solid blue with a pearl "looking" green color" were just for aesthetics.
I don't see how any of that is saying that all pearlizing is nothing more then atheistic.
Just that they used a pearl looking color in that ball for esthetic reasons.
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Northface28 thanks for bringing nothing as usual. I guess you can't read what is written well enough to apply it to the conversation. Sorry I don't have illustrations to help
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Northface28 thanks for bringing nothing as usual. I guess you can't read what is written well enough to apply it to the conversation. Sorry I don't have illustrations to help
Umm, yeah.
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AJ810 I think, personally, that is the case. It's not new technology to make a solid react like a pearl ect. It's continueing the cycle and securing sales.
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AJ810 I think, personally, that is the case. It's not new technology to make a solid react like a pearl ect. It's continueing the cycle and securing sales.
Continueing? Or continuing? For such a know-it-all, your spelling is atrocious.
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New phone spell correct. Its awesome. I can't spell and it changes some words without me selecting it. It doesn't bother me
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Radical markets new tech and the South of the border fans think it's awesome. Meanwhile, the rest of us sit back and chuckle. There is such a thing as Hybrid. But I don't expect everyone to agree on such a simple concept, when 1 doesn't believe in pearl coverstocks.
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Radical markets new tech and the South of the border fans think it's awesome. Meanwhile, the rest of us sit back and chuckle. There is such a thing as Hybrid. But I don't expect everyone to agree on such a simple concept, when 1 doesn't believe in pearl coverstocks.
It dont matter what they 'market' if it dont 'sell.' The only thing they dominate is the clearance section of these e-tailers. Were still seeing loaded revolvers for Christ sake!!! $75 ruckuses..need I say more? Utah product is the opposite...something gets discontinued and its hoard city!...I could care less about the 'new tech'...the 'new additive this, new additive that' that's for suckers...
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Since I have a computer I will try and break this down further and add some high lights. Take the words "new technology" out of the equation and think about what is said and how that applies to companies across the board since resin balls were being made. Even urethane for that matter.
We dye our resins we do not use pigment so there is no impact of color on the performance of our shells. We do use additives to get the desired length and shape regarding ball motion.
When you look at the ball it will have a solid blue and a pearl "looking" green color combo.
In reality they are both the same resin, its esthetic only. We used an additive combination to create the exact motion.
If we desired we could make a solid black ball roll exactly like a skid flip pearl.
Do you honestly think other manufactures do not have the same ability? My point is I really believe this tells you that looks pearl, solid or hybrid do not matter it is ball surface and the actual additives that determine ball length ect. But because people have been boxed in to the idea of pearls, solids, and hybrids you get the same questions and beliefs that pearls have to be polished, and not be sanded.....can I polish this ball X because it is a solid.....or what is a hybrid.
I am glad yall look at it as someone pushing Brunswick stuff or start trying to take a jab at other manufactures when in reality I'm trying to tell you something honestly looks like bull$hit and it has been posted by someone who works in the business and designs bowling balls. It isn't one manufacture but all of them that have been doing this.
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The original Bounty was a dull hybrid. The original Mission was a dull pearl. You can shine or dull anything. If Phil said his bowling balls were made with Nutella, am I to believe him? You make it seem as if all companies are lying. Maybe they are, but why shouldn't we believe them? Phil's post in the Mighty means nothing to me. Heck, it could be the original Guru with a color change and surface set at 4k. Who really knows.
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That is the point tkk. Who really knows, but I think they gave some good info on what is able to be done and why pearlized, solid, or hyrbid isn't really different as people think.
Remember the Danger Zone, and the 3 plus tour editions? All plain black, all identical in look, only different pin colors to tell which ball had which type of cover for aggressive to least aggressive reactions. No pearlized or other voodoo needed. Now imagine doing that twice for every ball released. Pearl, solid, ect for how many years have people bought into it. It is a lot of marketing. We all buy into it.
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No doubt. These companies are making Millions off of our stupidity. Do I need all 3 of 1 ball, meaning solid, pearl, hybrid? No. But do I usually end up with them if I like the first? Yes. Marketing or not, we all buy the balls whether it's a pearl or Nutella.
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Agreeeeed except nutella I'm going crunchy peanutbutter all day.
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Hazelnut is more "additive" where crunchy peanut butter is more "particle." And we all know how "particle" is perceived. It's all marketing ;D
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Its breakfast now. Thanks for that
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My point is I really believe this tells you that looks pearl, solid or hybrid do not matter it is ball surface and the actual additives that determine ball length ect.
To me this is what is making this post a confused jumble.
That the terms pearl, solid or hybrid keep being used in it just for how the ball visually looks.
And to me at least, that's not what they (at least originally) are referring to.
Solid does not mean a solid color ( it's usually referring to a ball with a certain coverstock type)
Pearls were balls that had a additive (typ. Mica), went longer and snapped some. Not just balls with smooth surfaces and swirly colors.
And a Hybrid is just splitting the difference between the other two, Hybrids don't have a "look". You can't look at a unknown ball on the rack and say that's a hybrid just from the looks.
Yes the actual additives are what determine ball reaction (as far as the coverstock goes)
Yes the visual look of a ball doesn't matter in how it reacts.
Yes the other manufactures have the same ability to use other additives.
Now if a company (lets say Radical) has a new additive that makes a ball react like a "Pearlized" ball (Meaning one that used Mica as the additive) and make it look anyway they want.
And they want call it something else other than a pearl or whatever, that's fine.
The fact that a lot of people don't understand that you can sand pearls etc. isn't particularly the companies fault.
But none of that really means that the companies have been perpetrating some big hoax on everybody.
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They used these terms for marketing.....and it worked....it allowed 3 different ball motions with the same core in almost every line...
To me personally, I tend to look at the motion itself....dont care what the "makeup" is. I play with surface on every ball I get to find whats best for me regardless of what its called...
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Too many have been brain washed over the past 30 yrs or so into believing what the marketing tells you instead of believing what your eyes tell you, as well as logic...
Reality vs perception...if someone TELLS you something enough times you will eventually believe no matter what you may think
And I use the 'phrase' reality vs perception correctly btw
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Too many have been brain washed over the past 30 yrs or so into believing what the marketing tells you instead of believing what your eyes tell you, as well as logic...
Reality vs perception...if someone TELLS you something enough times you will eventually believe no matter what you may think
Exactly, it reminds me of the anti-vax crowd......
To me personally, I tend to look at the motion itself....dont care what the "makeup" is. I play with surface on every ball I get to find whats best for me regardless of what its called...
Ding Ding Ding! ;D
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So who will launch the company that releases balls with no CGs/ no listed overstock type and a bag of abralon pads? I mean, we've been lied to for 30 years and none of that matters except for surface anyway.
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Cg tells where the top weight is located. Many don't check this prior to drilling and the end results are illegal statics.
Call it Mystery or Box of chocolates. Great company names.
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Most don't truly understand what a CG is...
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Same for buckeyes
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so many of us joe bowlers were fooled and played like a bitch without being called a whore by these companies and proshops....??? uhm...
I own 6 balls now, instead of owning 30....looks l like I'll have plenty room in my storage for other things....