Post by: J_w73 on September 02, 2009, 01:08:32 AM
Would the snake oil or UFO stuff do the job.. I don't know what is better or how they are different.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: dizzyfugu on September 02, 2009, 09:11:55 AM
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: DanH78 on September 02, 2009, 09:35:29 AM
--------------------
It IS next year!
Post by: J_w73 on September 02, 2009, 11:23:10 AM
quote:
Wouldn't it be easier to just buy a plastic ball? Then keep your dry lane ball the way it is.
--------------------
It IS next year!
Yes, but I really like to have this ball option for dry dry and when nothing else is working..I like the 2 in 1 idea of the ball.. I don't really have room in my bag/s for another ball
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: tc300 on September 02, 2009, 01:21:54 PM
Post by: charlest on September 02, 2009, 02:10:37 PM
I saw in another post that this ball is a urethane.
AS far as I know, Delayed Reaction reduces the hook and backend on RESIN balls because it reduces its ability to absorb oil. Urethanes do absorb oil but significantly slower than resin balls. The ratio used to be 20:1, but with today's oil sucking resins, that ratio may be even higher.
The SBG has a regular dynamic core and its hook is more closely related, I BELIEVE, to the fact that the flare exposes clean surfaces (without oil) to the lane surface. The oil should sit on the surface for a good long time, enabling you to easily wipe it away.
So, I believe that the only effect you get from using Delayed Reaction is that of polish - adding shine/gloss to the balls' cover. What you want may be better achieved by using an abrasive polish, like Storm's XTra Shine. It will add shine but will also smooth out the coverstock. You could also try to sand the SBG to 4000 grit Abralon and then add polish. (I did this recently to a friend's SBG. It is HARD work. That cover is hard.)
Good luck.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on September 02, 2009, 02:29:44 PM
I'll look into the urethane polish.. I do have a spinner.
any idea what is different about the urethane polish vs a standard one??
charlest.. I have done the 4000 abralon and polish.. still too much hook.
maybe I just need to burn the polish in more
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 9/2/2009 2:30 PM
Post by: charlest on September 02, 2009, 03:17:00 PM
quote:
charlest.. I have done the 4000 abralon and polish.. still too much hook.
maybe I just need to burn the polish in more
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
I wasn't kidding when I said taking the urethane SBG to 4000 Abralon was a lot of work. YOu need fresh abrasive, start low, like 1000 Abralon and work your way up. If you just took a 4000 pad to the polished ball, it was probably not at 4000 Abralon. Also I did it 3 times. The time very meticulously. It would not get tacky once the polish was applied over the 4000 Abralon finish. No matter what I did. Urethane is very hard and stubborn compared to any resin coverstock.
I suspect that the urethane polish has a significant amount of abrasive in it. Unlike Resin, polished urethane hooks less than dull urethane and does not seem to save up energy for the backend. It has reduced hook and backend.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_w73 on September 02, 2009, 04:46:28 PM
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: drvred on September 02, 2009, 07:28:04 PM
Post by: charlest on September 02, 2009, 07:48:33 PM
quote:
My Target Zone will hook at our lanes on 10 pins. I went all the way down to 4000 then some rubbing compound and then multiple coats of Control-it. That helps alot, but I have to reapply the Control-it every couple of weeks
What I said about Delayed Reaction above applies equally to Control-IT.
Both are meant for resin balls. On plastic and urethane you're just applying polish.
If you want less hook from plastic, either sand VERY, super-fine like 4000 Abralon followed by Trizact white pads and then non-abrasive polish or
drill it CG on PAP and do the same polish routine.
I did the above (Trizact white pad + non-abrasive polish) to my Blue Dot and it hooks a lot less.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: drvred on September 02, 2009, 08:15:37 PM
Post by: ValentinoBowling on September 02, 2009, 08:23:45 PM
Internet will more in likely be cheaper.
-Kevin
--------------------
makers of Snake Oil, Remedy RX, Resurrection & UFO
Premium Maintenance Products
Post by: Gazoo on September 02, 2009, 08:38:48 PM
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
Post by: J_w73 on September 03, 2009, 03:46:19 PM
quote:
Nu Finish will turn it into a marble.
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
I'll try it.. says it doesn't contain any waxes.. any idea if it has slip agents or something else in it??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on September 03, 2009, 06:23:01 PM
http://www.specialtytools.com/index.php?cPath=956_1005
http://www.granitecitytool.com/showitem.cfm?itemnum=152
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: A_P_K on September 03, 2009, 06:48:01 PM
Even at 4000ab with multiple doses of polish it still hooks more than I need it to. The only good thing is it at least clears the dryer heads better than before where it would roll as soon as it hit the lanes.
Also, I'm not using the ball on dry, dry, dry lanes either, I'm using mine on light oil and it's too strong. You might just be better suited buying something weaker even though you may truly not want to.
--------------------
The original Pin Krusher
Post by: Bluff on September 03, 2009, 07:31:13 PM
or 3 m finesse it.
Turtle Wax works better
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 10:49:35 AM
quote:
Jeff did my Slate, the one he talked about above a few posts.
Even at 4000ab with multiple doses of polish it still hooks more than I need it to. The only good thing is it at least clears the dryer heads better than before where it would roll as soon as it hit the lanes.
Also, I'm not using the ball on dry, dry, dry lanes either, I'm using mine on light oil and it's too strong. You might just be better suited buying something weaker even though you may truly not want to.
--------------------
The original Pin Krusher
Is there something weaker than the slate blue that isn't plastic.... or maybe I can go with a plastic with a true core in it..what is the best one of those??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 10:51:42 AM
quote:
TURTLE WAX from autozone or auto store
or 3 m finesse it.
Turtle Wax works better
I was going to try one of the polish kings at the local center.. That may do something as well. I think whatever they use in those has some wax in it.. atleast it smells like it.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: dicnic on September 04, 2009, 10:55:45 AM
--------------------
Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Post by: jbuzz31 on September 04, 2009, 11:00:26 AM
quote:
TURTLE WAX from autozone or auto store
or 3 m finesse it.
Turtle Wax works better
I used to use rain-x on my blue dot . worked pretty good too. just gotta put it on every 3 weeks or so.
--------------------
Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 11:08:09 AM
quote:
Wouldn't it be easier to learn how to throw a bowling ball straight?
--------------------Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
I can do that.. but if I don't have to why do it? I can strike a lot using a house ball too so why buy multiple balls and have them drilled to fit my hand.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on September 04, 2009, 11:26:51 AM
quote:quote:
Jeff did my Slate, the one he talked about above a few posts.
Even at 4000ab with multiple doses of polish it still hooks more than I need it to. The only good thing is it at least clears the dryer heads better than before where it would roll as soon as it hit the lanes.
Also, I'm not using the ball on dry, dry, dry lanes either, I'm using mine on light oil and it's too strong. You might just be better suited buying something weaker even though you may truly not want to.
--------------------
The original Pin Krusher
Is there something weaker than the slate blue that isn't plastic.... or maybe I can go with a plastic with a true core in it..what is the best one of those??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
The Ogre Urethane is at least a whole degree weaker than the Slate Blue. It will handle some very dry conditions.
There's always the Lane#1 XXXl: polyester with a mild diamond core.
I prefer the OU myself, if I had to get one. Fortunately I have its predessor, the Glowing Amulet.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 9/4/2009 11:29 AM
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 02:27:47 PM
The Ogre Urethane is at least a whole degree weaker than the Slate Blue. It will handle some very dry conditions.
There's always the Lane#1 XXXl: polyester with a mild diamond core.
I prefer the OU myself, if I had to get one. Fortunately I have its predessor, the Glowing Amulet.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
what makes the ogre urethane weaker than the slate blue.. being they are both urethane.. core difference??
Does the glowing amulet hit and carry being plastic with a core??
Edited on 9/4/2009 11:29 AM[/quote]
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 9/4/2009 2:29 PM
Edited on 9/4/2009 2:40 PM
Edited on 9/4/2009 2:55 PM
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 02:50:58 PM
quote:
The solution isn't in polishing the ball or making the ball go longer. The solution is throwing the ball harder or throwing it straighter. You lacking in one or the other department. Straight is straight, no matter what the ball is made of. Watch Norm Duke shoot spares on 5 different lane conditions using the same reactive resin ball. I watched him once in Detroit. shoot spares using whatever reactive ball he picked up from the rack. One frame it was a 2nd Dimension, then a Hy Road then he was using a Virtual Gravity shooting his spares.
They all went dead on a close line straight.
I can do the same with a pretty good degree of accuracy .. but If I can have a ball that will give me a larger margin of error .. or take the "me not having the right hand adjustment".. why not do that..??
Other than the advertising.. why don't all the pros just keep using the same ball for all their spares and flatten their hand out and throw it straight..??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 03:04:24 PM
quote:'
The answer is do you want to make the spare or do you not want to make the spare. If your not making spares and saying it's the ball that's hooking too much than you need to make an adjustment with the way you attempt to make the spare. If your adjustments on the balls surface are not working, than it's obvious you need to make some other kind of adjustment or you can just keep missing them and blaming the ball.
It's not to coverstock of the ball that's causing your sharp back end reaction on 10 pins, it's the way you go about shooting them. It's at the point where the ball is not the fault, but the bowlers attempt at it.
If the urethane ball is hooking, your not throwing it straight this not giving you that greater margin of error your looking for. Using your hook or modified hook ball release is reducing your margin for error not increasing it.
The ball itself does not create the margin of error. It's the execution of the proper angle to the 10 pin, and the ability to have the ball go straight at the pin on that angle with the proper release technique.
Edited on 9/4/2009 2:59 PM
jesus christ.. I already admitted that it is me..
but your argument is ignorant.. of course if you throw the ball perfect you will get a perfect result.. but even professionals use a plastic less reactive/hooking ball for some reason... they must see some benefit as well
The point of the post wasn't to argue about how much I suck at not being able to flatten my release. I was just looking to see what I could do to the ball to reduce the backend hook.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 03:23:02 PM
quote:
And like I said, it's not the arrow..it's the Indian. Throw the damn thing straighter and there is your answer.
It's already polished to incredible amounts. If's still hooking your answer isn't the polish or the ball...it's the bowler. Fix the bowler not the ball and you will make more 10 pins.
There is NOTHING more you can do to the ball...throw it in the luster king if it works at your center for about an hour.
Get a plastic ball...
Put up, shut up and make more spares....look at the problem and correct it.
I was just looking for other things to try.. like suggested.. mabe dulling it a bit may make the ball burn up a bit and actually be less snappy on the backend..
or another product that will work on the cover..
Thanks to everyone for the help..
No thanks to you for being Mr. Obvious. Not everyone is as great as you..
Being as great as you are,I guess you must never use a plastic ball on spares
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 9/4/2009 3:43 PM
Post by: charlest on September 04, 2009, 03:56:08 PM
quote:
quote:
The Ogre Urethane is at least a whole degree weaker than the Slate Blue. It will handle some very dry conditions.
There's always the Lane#1 XXXl: polyester with a mild diamond core.
I prefer the OU myself, if I had to get one. Fortunately I have its predessor, the Glowing Amulet.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
what makes the ogre urethane weaker than the slate blue.. being they are both urethane.. core difference??
Does the glowing amulet hit and carry being plastic with a core??
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
There are a variety of urethanes, just like resins, just not as many.
The Ogre Urethane (and the Glowing Amulet) are both hard solid urethanes. Yes, the Ogre's core has a high RG and a lower flare than the Slate Blue, but it's just a weaker (less friction, therefore less aggressive) coverstock than the Slate Blue. Depending on drilling and your "hand", you'll be able to go much straighter with it (or the Glowing Amulet, not a plastic ball) than with the Slate Blue.
You were probably thinking of the Infra-Red Amulet. That was a plastic/polyester ball with a real core.
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ball_amu.html
The Glowing AMulet is/was a hard urethane:
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ball_glowingamulet.html
I had had a GA about 7 years ago. On dry lanes, it hit as hard as any resin, and I was able to use just a slight swing with it. My first series with it, cold out of the box, was 675. and it was used and redrilled. Sorry I got rid of it. I now have a new used one.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 9/4/2009 3:58 PM
Post by: J_w73 on September 04, 2009, 04:00:25 PM
There are a variety of urethanes, just like resins, just not as many.
The Ogre Urethane (and the Glowing Amulet) are both hard solid urethanes. Yes, the Ogre's core has a high RG and a lower flare than the Slate Blue, but it's just a weaker (less friction, therefore less aggressive) coverstock than the Slate Blue. Depending on drilling and your "hand", you'll be able to go much straighter with it (or the Glowing Amulet, not a plastic ball) than with the Slate Blue.
You were probably thinking of the Infra-Red Amulet. That was a plastic/polyester ball with a real core.
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ball_amu.html
The Glowing AMulet is/was a hard urethane:
http://www.visionarybowling.com/ball_glowingamulet.html
I had had a GA about 7 years ago. On dry lanes, it hit as hard as any resin, and I was able to use just a slight swing with it. My first series with it, cold out of the box, was 675. and it was used and redrilled. Sorry I got rid of it. I now have a new used one.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 9/4/2009 3:58 PM[/quote]
thanks for the info.. I was thinking about the red amulet..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 9/4/2009 4:02 PM
Post by: JohnP on September 04, 2009, 09:20:21 PM
quote:
but even professionals use a plastic less reactive/hooking ball for some reason... they must see some benefit as well
The pros play a different condition every week and that condition changes much more during a block than we ever see. By throwing straight at spares they don't have to waste practice time figuring out how to shoot spares on the particular condition. A plastic ball minimizes the affect of those times they don't stay exactly straight behind the ball.
You might want to watch e-Bay for one of the old hard urethane balls like the Hammer Nail. -- JohnP
Post by: drvred on September 05, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
He just asked an honest question, you dont need to put him down because he cant throw perfect 10 pin shots like you claim you do
Post by: J_w73 on September 16, 2009, 01:08:42 PM
quote:
My Target Zone will hook at our lanes on 10 pins. I went all the way down to 4000 then some rubbing compound and then multiple coats of Control-it. That helps alot, but I have to reapply the Control-it every couple of weeks
Your post about the control it kind of went past me the first time as I didn't know what that product was..but Jason Wonders from Visionary recommended a product Neo-Tac Delay-it. I called Neo-Tac and they don't have a product called that but I guess the "control-it" is the same thing. The control-it seemed to work way better than the ebonite/track delayed reaction.. gets down the lane better and no snap on the back end... or I have learned to flatten out my hand enough..
one of the two.. : ) I'm 4 for 4 on ten pins in the last 9 games.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: charlest on September 16, 2009, 02:48:03 PM
Neo-Tac has Control-It.
EBonite Powerhouse now markets Track's Delayed Reaction.
Both are considered to contain what is termed a slip agent.
Over both of those I (for whatever that's worth) prefer a newer product from Valentino, called UFO. It is also a polish like the other two, and like the other two it reduces the overall hook AND it reduces the backend of resin balls to which it is applied. Unlike the other two, which require a firm sanding of around 400 - 600 grit, UFO only requires a mild abrasive like their own Resurrection or a light abrasive like 2000 or 4000 Abralon to remove it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: hammermark on October 15, 2009, 08:18:38 PM
HM