BallReviews
General Category => Coverstock Preparation => Topic started by: lilpossum1 on November 08, 2014, 05:41:41 PM
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Idk if this is the right section, but can someone give me a detailed explanation of the term "lane shine?" I know the lanes wear polish off of polished balls, and give Sanded balls a more polished look. Is there a grit range that the balls settle at depending on the friction of a lane surface?
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Is there a grit range that the balls settle at depending on the friction of a lane surface?
Yes ball surfaces will change with use, polished balls will get duller and dull balls will shine up.
The general rule of thumb was that the balls surface would wind up about a 600 US grit surface.
Now this was more when it was mostly wood lanes, because they have a lot more texture than synthetics.
Now I believe they have now changed this to about 800 grit (which is 1500 Fepa). Do to the synthetic lane surfaces and the change of coverstock materials.
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Lane or oil shine is when the oil gets embedded into the surface of the ball and makes it look like it is still polished. The last report I read is that synthetic lanes will take an untouched ball to about the 2000 grit FEPA level. If you use a good cleaner to remove the oil shine, you will find a dull ball (or track) under that supposed "shine".
That is why, although it appears to the naked eye to be shined, it is NOT shined/polished any longer and has been dulled down to approximately 2000 grit (it could be 1500 grit or 2500 grit FEPA; it makes no difference because it is dull now). It needs to be re-polished, or better yet, it needs to be re-sanded to the proper grit level and then re-polished.
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Not trying to hijack, but what if the factory surface finish is 600grit sanded with 2000grit polish?
If the lane settles the ball at 2000 grit, but the ball came NIB with a 2000polish finish, does it still need to be re sanded to 600, then re polished back to 2000?
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Not trying to hijack, but what if the factory surface finish is 600grit sanded with 2000grit polish?
If the lane settles the ball at 2000 grit, but the ball came NIB with a 2000polish finish, does it still need to be re sanded to 600, then re polished back to 2000?
2000 grit polish does not give you a 2000 grit finish. The old Columbia balls were often given a finish specified like that. A 2000 grit polish (or for that matter any polish with a specified grit level) does not, cannot give you a result with a 2000 grit finish. Balls finished with polish will almost always wind up with the surface being in the 5000 - 5500 grit FEPA range
Also remember that "600" grit was 600 grit CAMI which is closer to 1200 grit FEPA; so probably that "2000" grit was also a CAMI specification which translates to a 4000 grit FEPA, which is closer to the truth but doesn't really hit it.
As an example of the above, if you keep using a 4000 grit (Abralon or Siaair) pad beyond its3-5 uses, you will find that it will start to put a shine on the ball. A new 4000 grit pad leaves a ball dull or matte. That shine is evidence that the abrasive of the the new 4000 pad is probably in the 5000 grit range and has been worn beyond its intended use.
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If the lane settles the ball at 2000 grit,
One thing to remember also is that 2000 grit is just a approximation, a general rule of thumb.
Lane type, oil conditions etc. will affect what it really is, there could be a big variance +/- on that 2000 grit.
Also the wear pattern won't necessarily be consistent all around the ball. So you still would have to resurface the ball.
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Thanks guys. The ball I am using is an AMF Hype reactive, and all it says is 600 grit with 2000 grit polish.
I don't think I have ever used a gritted polish. Where do you get that?
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Thanks guys. The ball I am using is an AMF Hype reactive, and all it says is 600 grit with 2000 grit polish.
I don't think I have ever used a gritted polish. Where do you get that?
I don't think you ever used a polish without some abrasive in it. ;D
That's how they take surfaces from 500, 1000 or 2000 grit to 5000 and 5000+ grit, which is the grit level at which most polished balls' surface exist. Right now, to my knowledge point, Motiv Gel polish has the least abrasive in it. Lane#1's Secret Sauce has the most abrasive in it. (I consider Royal Compound, formerly known as Rough Buff, and Storm's Step2 to be "compounds", not polishes, although when they take a surface to that 5000 grit plateau, the ball will take on a shine.)
Those polishes which people term "non-abrasive" have the least amount of abrasive in them, but all polishes have abrasive to a lesser or greater degree. Remember that polish is NOT a coating like polyurethane or varnish or lacquer. It is a smoothing out of the highest peaks of the surface to at least 5000 grit. That's the point (grit level) where a surface begins to shine, to look polished.
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Well, about the only thing they have around here anymore is that 3M Finesse or Finesse it.
After a couple of balls seemed to not react well after a few treatments with that, I'm kind of afraid to use it on anything else.
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Well, about the only thing they have around here anymore is that 3M Finesse or Finesse it.
After a couple of balls seemed to not react well after a few treatments with that, I'm kind of afraid to use it on anything else.
What about all the regular bowling ball-specific polishes?
Valentino's Snake Oil is one of the best. Powerhouse's Factory Finish is excellent, as is Storm's Xtra Shine, Neo-Tac's Renew It, Brunswick's Royal Shine.
I have not had any problem's using Finesse-It, but I prefer bowling ball polishes for consistency and longevity.
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Well, about the only thing they have around here anymore is that 3M Finesse or Finesse it.
After a couple of balls seemed to not react well after a few treatments with that, I'm kind of afraid to use it on anything else.
About Finesse it, in a old BTM issue (one of the few where they talked about different polishes.
They said Finesse it contained ceramic particles that would imbed in the pores of a ball.
If that's true then, it could be that with repeated applications. Those particles may have build up and be whats affecting the reaction.
I'll look through my old issues and see if it says any more.
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I've seen Perfect-it. What is the difference between that and Finesse-it?
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I've seen Perfect-it. What is the difference between that and Finesse-it?
Here's the 3M web pages for some of them; you decide:
Perfect-It:http://3mcollision.com/products/featured-products/3m-perfect-it-paint-finishing-system (http://3mcollision.com/products/featured-products/3m-perfect-it-paint-finishing-system)
Finesse-It: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MIndustrial/Abrasives/Products/~/3M-Finesse-it-Polish?N=7581719+3294228489&rt=rud (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MIndustrial/Abrasives/Products/~/3M-Finesse-it-Polish?N=7581719+3294228489&rt=rud)
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Those polishes which people term "non-abrasive" have the least amount of abrasive in them, but all polishes have abrasive to a lesser or greater degree. Remember that polish is NOT a coating like polyurethane or varnish or lacquer. It is a smoothing out of the highest peaks of the surface to at least 5000 grit. That's the point (grit level) where a surface begins to shine, to look polished.
+1000.. thank you for saying this. Many people misunderstand what a polish is. I think because of things like turtle wax. It is a car polish with fine abrasive particles to put a shine on the car surface, but it also contains wax to protect the car finish. An abrasive polish without additives can not be "put on" and "taken off" the ball. It just changes the surface of the ball like any other sand paper or abrasive pad, just at a very fine grit. There are some polishing products that do contain waxes, silicones, and other slip additives though. I use a pure polishing powder so that I do not have to deal with wondering if what I am using has any additional additives in it.
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Finesse It has always been one of my favorite polishes. I like it as well as Snake Oil.
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I'm with Good Times on this, Finesse It and Snake Oil are perfect for being able to put the amount of shine you desire.
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According to Jayhawk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMwsO2JCZxY
They smooth a lot more than that on synthetic lanes according to Jayhawk. With only 3 games both balls were already over 4900 in the track area.
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According to Jayhawk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMwsO2JCZxY
They smooth a lot more than that on synthetic lanes according to Jayhawk. With only 3 games both balls were already over 4900 in the track area.
Despite one test, there are too many variables involved to give more than a range of potential surfaces: the ball's coverstock, the bowler's rev rate, the lane surface, the age of the lane surface are just a few of the variables.
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According to Jayhawk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMwsO2JCZxY
They smooth a lot more than that on synthetic lanes according to Jayhawk. With only 3 games both balls were already over 4900 in the track area.
Despite one test, there are too many variables involved to give more than a range of potential surfaces: the ball's coverstock, the bowler's rev rate, the lane surface, the age of the lane surface are just a few of the variables.
I agree that all those things factor into the outcome, but still seems curious that both balls became very similar in roughness in the track after 3 games. If that thing works, I'm guessing that some of the factors you mentioned probably dictate how quickly they get to a high surface number, not if. With lane surface dictating the top value of surface, but still higher than estimates in this thread. That is just my opinion of course. i'm not trying to start an argument.
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Stole this from Bowling Chat:
From Mo Pinel:
Balls with highly polished smooth surfaces will go the other way because bowling with them will add fine scratches to the surface. If you test for surface changes through bowling, your results will be entirely different on wood and synthetic lane surfaces. If you bowl on old original Brunswick Anvilane and Brunswick System 2000, bowling will add deeper scratches because those worn synthetics have aluminum oxide exposed, which sands the ball. It is very surface specific as to which surface roughness balls will migrate to. There's the whole truth. You deserved to know it.
OP said in the thread:
Had a chance to use the Jayhawk surface scanner yesterday and was very surprised with the results. I scanned the following balls:
Storm Reign 3000 sia 15 games ago scanned 5300
Marvel 500/2000 Black Magic polish 6 games ago scanned 5263
Nano 500/1500 Black Magic 10 games ago scanned 4862
Taboo pearl burned with white pad scanned 4739
Frantic off the shelf scanned 5800
And a guy brought his Nano in after a 3 game set to see how much the surface had changed. Before bowling it scanned 1850. After just 3 games it scanned 4200!!! I was shocked. Quite interesting to say the least.
Just thought I'd share that for free.
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Stole this from Bowling Chat:
From Mo Pinel:
Balls with highly polished smooth surfaces will go the other way because bowling with them will add fine scratches to the surface. If you test for surface changes through bowling, your results will be entirely different on wood and synthetic lane surfaces. If you bowl on old original Brunswick Anvilane and Brunswick System 2000, bowling will add deeper scratches because those worn synthetics have aluminum oxide exposed, which sands the ball. It is very surface specific as to which surface roughness balls will migrate to. There's the whole truth. You deserved to know it.
OP said in the thread:
Had a chance to use the Jayhawk surface scanner yesterday and was very surprised with the results. I scanned the following balls:
Storm Reign 3000 sia 15 games ago scanned 5300
Marvel 500/2000 Black Magic polish 6 games ago scanned 5263
Nano 500/1500 Black Magic 10 games ago scanned 4862
Taboo pearl burned with white pad scanned 4739
Frantic off the shelf scanned 5800
And a guy brought his Nano in after a 3 game set to see how much the surface had changed. Before bowling it scanned 1850. After just 3 games it scanned 4200!!! I was shocked. Quite interesting to say the least.
Just thought I'd share that for free.
(Personally) I've seen all that. I have no problems with any of that. I don't doubt it.
99.99% of bowlers, who are aware of this idea, will never check their balls after 3 games. Most will start thinking about it somewhere in the 25 - 75 game range or when they see polish removed. By then most balls will wear int he 2000 grit range, ranging from 1000 - 3000, more or less due to the lane surface and other factors.
Bowling on very lightly oiled AMF HPL and 15 year old Brunswick Anvllanes, when I clean my polished balls, remove the oil and the oil shine, and see that the polished surface has been smoothed dull after 6 games of league, I know something's wrong.
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if you keep using a 4000 grit (Abralon or Siaair) pad beyond its3-5 uses, you will find that it will start to put a shine on the ball.
Wow! Only about 5 uses of these pads and they lose their original grit. I did not know that.
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if you keep using a 4000 grit (Abralon or Siaair) pad beyond its3-5 uses, you will find that it will start to put a shine on the ball.
Wow! Only about 5 uses of these pads and they lose their original grit. I did not know that.
Put a black mark on the back of the pad each time you use it. When its fresh, the finish you get will almost always be dull, no reflections. Once it's worn and the grit has broken down to around 5000 grit, it will put a shine on the ball, where before it did not. Siaair brand pads will give you a slightly longer use life, maybe 4 - 8 uses, depending on how firmly you press and for how long.
Keep in mind that rougher pads (lower numerical grit rating) should last for more uses than a 4000 grit pad. The lower the number the longer it should last;just keep an eye on them and it's best to mark the uses with a permanent marker on the back of the pad.
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Charlest,
Great Tip. Thanks for this info. I am putting this thread into a PDF file for keeping. It is amazing how many little pieces of information from posts I have placed into my personal bowling library.
Almost everything on Cleaners and Ball Surface Process has come from you. Thank You.
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Charlest,
Great Tip. Thanks for this info. I am putting this thread into a PDF file for keeping. It is amazing how many little pieces of information from posts I have placed into my personal bowling library.
Almost everything on Cleaners and Ball Surface Process has come from you. Thank You.
Thank you. You're welcome. Hope it all proves useful.