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Author Topic: Adjusting my Cell surface.  (Read 3513 times)

Aloarjr810

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Adjusting my Cell surface.
« on: October 01, 2008, 06:19:14 AM »
Well a few weeks ago, I got one of the cell's. So I started off trying it with the OOB surface, on a fresh league shot.

The reaction just seemed weak, I could hit the pocket but the carry wasn't there. I looked at the track on the ball and I only had about a 1' of flare. It was consistent  like everyone said, but the it just didn't move or carry like they said.

So the going opinion was “strong layout, not enough oil, you need to polish it up because it's rolling out.”. But I have a mark made on my PAP to help watch for this.

As far as I could see it wasn't rolling out. Normally I would try a little more surface texture, but I thought ok I'll shine it up

So I went from 2000 abralon (OOB) to a 4000 abralon surface. Well  this didn't help. On a fresh league shot. The ball went a little farther down the lane. I had to move right to get the pocket, still not much flare, carry was still weak.

So next from 4000 I polished it to a high shine. I wound up on some real dry lanes at another house,the first chance I had to try it. I thought darn it would be to much ball, I was wrong.

The ball worked great, it reacted just how everyone had described it would. 250, 200 games by the 4th game the lanes were too dry bagged it.

Now on the fresh league shot with this surface, it just went even longer. So I said the heck with shining it up, I'll try duller see what happens.

Since the OOB didn't work before, I went to 500 abralon. Now on the fresh league shot guess what? The ball is working!  

It was consistent, the carry was out standing. My first 7 frames I had 7 strikes. I was getting about 3-4' of flare. The pins stayed nice and low sweeping the deck, it was working just like the reviews said it would.

Now one of the guy's here who bowls in the regionals had been watching. As I came back we started talking, I told him the story.

He looked at me and said that 500 was way to much, it would absorb  all the oil off the lane and just roll out I needed to shine it up.

Now my series that night wasn't great because in the 8th frame I stuck and fell so I was gun shy after that. By the 3rd game I started to loosen backup. I could still play the same line and strike with the cell and it was still working great no rolling out. I got to try it on my next league this week to see if this is it but I feel confident now with it.

A observation- When it was shined up, I could get a little more reaction when I could increase my rev's. But when dull it seems to work with the rev's I normally have.

I think the surface just had to match up with my rev's to get the most out of the ball. ( I feel I have a lower rev rate than others, so I don't get that real dynamic action the higher rev bowler's get).

Just thought I'd share my experience with the cell and adjusting the cell surface.
Aloarjr810
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Moon57

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2008, 02:55:49 PM »
Could you post the layout you have on the ball?  If 100 people say something is wrong with the ball but it works for you then that's what counts. Another thing, abralon pads, when worn, won't put the right grit surface on the ball. I've started to get away from them and back to wet/dry sandpaper. I can use a fresh piece each time and it doesn't cost as much.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2008, 03:03:35 PM »
PAP is 5 7/8' x 5/8"up

Layout
Pin to PAP 3"
Pin to VAL 1 ½"
Pin to Mid line 3 1/8"
CG to PAP 3 ½"
MB to PAP 6" located in the thumb hole

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Click here for post in drilling forum
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Moon57

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 03:41:48 PM »
I looked on RG's website and your layout is almost like their 2 1/2 x 5 1/2 which makes less flare and less entry angle. So your layout may not be as strong as you think it is.
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Moon
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 04:59:24 PM »
quote:
I looked on RG's website and your layout is almost like their 2 1/2 x 5 1/2 which makes less flare and less entry angle. So your layout may not be as strong as you think it is.
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.


That was the layout I figured it was like also from the asymmetrical drill guide.
I was looking for "increased stability and control" and "more predictable ball path" part. Which looks good.

The part that say's "Higher “rev” players love this layout" goes with where I said it worked better when I could put more rev's on it.

I think the reduced flare is was what threw it off, it was a little too reduced.

Then listening to others talking about it rolling out and needing to shine it up. Got me going down the polishing path.Then the more polished it became, the more reduced the reaction.

My driller said we'd have to fine tune the surface to get the reaction right. I just went the wrong way with it.

Edited on 10/1/2008 5:01 PM
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charlest

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 06:21:27 PM »
You can't just consider rev rate & ball speed. Tilt and rotation angle are also very important. You seem to have very little tilt. So your release is very rolly. Not surprised at your results and limited utility with this ball.

I'd be surprised if you posted this before and I didn't mention tilt and rotation. Asymmetric balls are very sensitive to all these factors.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 07:48:24 PM »
quote:
You can't just consider rev rate & ball speed. Tilt and rotation angle are also very important. You seem to have very little tilt. So your release is very rolly. Not surprised at your results and limited utility with this ball.

I'd be surprised if you posted this before and I didn't mention tilt and rotation. Asymmetric balls are very sensitive to all these factors.



Yes I have more of 3/4 roller type release. I'd say about a 11''-12'' ball track arc,so I think that would put it to around a 10-20 degree of axis tilt. And watching my axis marker I'd say about 70-80 degrees of axis rotation.

Limited utility that could be said about most all balls today but not all. I think many who have say a "cell" or other strong ball, They don't really expect it to work across a whole variety of different conditions. I didn't expect it too either. But now that I know which way to go with the surface I can expand the utility of the ball and fit it to my arsenal where I had wanted it.

Yes I know I posted part of this in my question in the drilling/layout forum. I went back and looked and no you didn't really mention tilt and rotation.

I'm not saying you or anyone else here gave me wrong info, people locally gave me similar info. In regards to shining the ball up to retain more energy etc.

It's was just the information didn't fit how I bowled.

It's like the guy watching me bowling with it at 500 abralon. I'm striking away and then he tells me that 500 is too much the ball will roll out I need to shine it up. I think he did take into account how I bowled.

It's the same with asking questions online. It's hard to have all the facts to give a full answer, like you said "(not 100% sure since we can't see you bowl)".

I use the answers online as a place to start if I'm not sure of what to do, then seeing how to apply/adjust it to fit me.Then share what I found from my experience, in case others have something similar and they are looking for information about it that might give them a another option to look into.
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Edited on 10/1/2008 7:55 PM
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charlest

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 08:52:36 PM »
Also remember we have no formulas to plug numbers into. Most times, it is far easier to see how a person is bowling, see what the ball, surface and drill is, then consider what to change and how to change it. Doing all this with talk is infinitely harder. This is why your question is best answered in person, probably by the driller. If he can't, you shoudl find one that can.

For example: the difference between 10 and 20 degree tilt is HUGE. 20 degrees will give you tons of length and flip on the backend, all other things being equal. 10 degrees ALMOST gives you early roll, all other things being equal. WIth your track, I'd assume you need a drilling that helps to contribute to a ball's length. I think that drill does not ordinarily do that.

Good luck.

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Aloarjr810

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 11:02:18 AM »
Just a small update to my trying the cell with the 500 abralon surface. made a slight change I went to 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.

before the 500 and 400 surface I was averaging around 182 with the cell. With this surface I averaging 225 with it in the leagues. not a lot game but it's looking good.

last nights league was 678 (240-223-215) standing on 20, hitting around 2nd arrow breaking off of about the 7/8 board, speed ave. 15.5 at the pins.

i could tug it alittle and it would hold and still carry a really strong strike hit. I could leak it out pass 5 and carry the light hits.

This coarser surface might not work for most, but it seems to be working for me right now.



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mrbowlingnut

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 11:14:21 AM »
Yep that layout killed the core strength, at least you saved the ball with surface grit.

I had to shine mine up lightly to clear the heads with a 4 inch pin to pap and 4 1/4 mb to pap, OOB the balls was just too much on about any shot.

Put Valentino's Snake Oil right over Box and poof 5 more feet of length and increased back end reaction. I still can only use it game 1 but the last two weeks are 237 and 244, so I will keep on using it for those 10-12 frames a week that is working on.

I just go to a Grand Illusion, Saga or heist straight from using The Cell usually works out well with another 215 plus game.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 08:03:24 PM »
Just a PS here-

this video is pretty close to the reaction(& playing line) I was getting with the cell in its my current configuration.

http://www.rotogrip.com/products/balls/video/videos/CELL3.mp4
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tloy

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Re: Adjusting my Cell surface.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 11:14:07 AM »
Aloarjr810,

I to have a Cell drilled this way and it seemed weak to me until I dulled it down. I also got one drilled 4x 4 with a 1 1/2 pin buffer that in box condition is a Monster!!!! I now have the other Cell polished. Good Luck

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