Post by: Kanyon on March 05, 2010, 10:11:46 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 05, 2010, 06:19:33 PM
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: shelley on March 05, 2010, 06:30:17 PM
SH
Post by: Kanyon on March 05, 2010, 06:35:45 PM
Post by: charlest on March 05, 2010, 08:01:57 PM
quote:
Half of all 3? Do you mean 1/3.
Household alcohol is 70% isopropyl alcohol. The other 30% is water. So when you add alcohol to Simple Greeen 50/50, you are already adding WATER!
So your mixture is 50% water, 35% alcohol and 15% water, before you ever add any water.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: JohnP on March 06, 2010, 07:14:37 PM
Post by: charlest on March 06, 2010, 07:25:43 PM
quote:
Hey, this isn't quantitative chemistry lab. Mix some Simple Green and alcohol and add some water to it if you want to. It doesn't have to be exact to do a good job cleaning. I shoot for 1/3 SG, 1/3 alcohol, and 1/3 water, but I don't measure. If I use the 70% alcy I add more of it and less water. I do recommend that you wipe the ball off with a wet rag after using it. -- JohnP
Sorry, John, sometimes I can't resist simple equations and percenatges.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Thunder835 on March 06, 2010, 07:38:45 PM
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Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: Rileybowler on March 06, 2010, 07:58:19 PM
quote:
Where on the bottles of the above mentioned "cleaners" does it say "Approved for use on bowling balls"? Save yourself a lot of trouble and money by buying real ball cleaners. It will make your equipment last longer.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
________________________________________________________
Well you can check with USBC and it is an approved cleaner so I think that is good enough for me and its a whole lot cheaper than buying a company ball cleaner
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name
Post by: Thunder835 on March 06, 2010, 08:20:07 PM
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Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: TheFreeAgent on March 06, 2010, 08:41:41 PM
quote:
Where on the bottles of the above mentioned "cleaners" does it say "Approved for use on bowling balls"? Save yourself a lot of trouble and money by buying real ball cleaners. It will make your equipment last longer.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
? Please tell me your kiding company "cleaner" sucks just scented water. It doesnt take any of the rubber marks off the ball. Motiv has the only decent cleaner out. if you want to really clean a ball use aacetone. its not "approved" but who goes around cheacking what you clean your ball with at tournaments. Ive had an MJ slam since it came out and still use acetone on it and it reacts just as it did the day i got it
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Post by: chatnboy on March 06, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
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Go hard or go home!!!!!Bowl your best...ALWAYS!!!
Post by: shelley on March 06, 2010, 09:01:01 PM
quote:
? Please tell me your kiding company "cleaner" sucks just scented water. It doesnt take any of the rubber marks off the ball. Motiv has the only decent cleaner out. if you want to really clean a ball use aacetone. its not "approved" but who goes around cheacking what you clean your ball with at tournaments. Ive had an MJ slam since it came out and still use acetone on it and it reacts just as it did the day i got it
You're welcome to cheat. You will likely never get caught. It doesn't change the fact that you're cheating.
As for using Simple Green and alcohol, both of those are on the "Approved at any time" list. I would not hesitate to use it. Acetone, however, has been shown to have a detrimental effect on the coverstock material. Add to that the fact that it stinks and is quite toxic and it's easy to see why it's banned.
I've never used the Motiv cleaner. Maybe it's great stuff. You're the first person I've noticed that's really enthusiastic about it. And you're kind of a douche. I'll stick with Valentino's Remedy for day-to-day cleaning. If a $8 bottle of cleaner is too expensive, Simple Green and alcohol is quite good and stupid cheap.
SH
Post by: Thunder835 on March 06, 2010, 09:01:05 PM
quote:quote:
Where on the bottles of the above mentioned "cleaners" does it say "Approved for use on bowling balls"? Save yourself a lot of trouble and money by buying real ball cleaners. It will make your equipment last longer.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
? Please tell me your kiding company "cleaner" sucks just scented water. It doesnt take any of the rubber marks off the ball. Motiv has the only decent cleaner out. if you want to really clean a ball use aacetone. its not "approved" but who goes around cheacking what you clean your ball with at tournaments. Ive had an MJ slam since it came out and still use acetone on it and it reacts just as it did the day i got it
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Scented water? Have you ever tried Clean N' Dull? Those rubber marks you speak of are no match for clean n' dull. It's probably one of the best, if not the best cleaner there is. It removes all surface dirt, belt marks and surface oil from the ball surface. As far as acetone...when you use acetone, you can actually harden the surface of the ball making it less aggressive. The only types of balls I would use acetone on would be urethane and plastic.
Nobody cares what people clean their own bowling balls with. But when you work in a pro shop and work on customers bowling equipment, you had better care what you use. Shops who skimp out and use household cleaners on the new covers today have no idea the harm they can cause to a bowling ball.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: Thunder835 on March 06, 2010, 09:07:29 PM
http://www.morichbowling.com/BowlingBalls/BowlingBall_Cleaning.htm
--------------------
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: snowspike1 on March 06, 2010, 09:40:36 PM
quote:
That's fine, do what you please. Bowling ball cleaner costs around $10-$15 depending on location and brand....a new bowling ball costs between $150-$250....I can see where using a household cleaner saves money....
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Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Whats with Brunswicks ball cleaner?..... Looks like windex smells like windex but costs 10X what windex does....Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a ..... staffer that gets their equip & cleaners free.. ooo ooops i ment Duck
Post by: TheFreeAgent on March 06, 2010, 10:40:09 PM
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Post by: lenstanles703 on March 07, 2010, 08:28:53 AM
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Len
Edited on 3/7/2010 9:32 AM
Post by: Motogp69 on March 07, 2010, 08:58:20 AM
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Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21
"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."
Post by: Perfect Approach Pro Shop on March 07, 2010, 03:47:14 PM
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J. Helton
Perfect Approach Pro Shop
Post by: bitbytebit on March 07, 2010, 04:47:13 PM
Thanks,
Chris
Post by: dougb on March 07, 2010, 07:13:04 PM
My shop told me not to use alcohol on urethane as it makes the cover brittle, so for that I use Windex.
I used acetone for awhile without knowing it, as a local shop mixed some in for their "special" formula cleaner. A buddy smelled it and knew immediately from the old days when people used it to soften up balls. It took everything off like magic, but when I found out what I was using I stopped.
Post by: TheFreeAgent on March 07, 2010, 10:50:17 PM
quote:
I use simple green/alcohol (50/50 mix). I find it works just as well if not better than some company's cleaners, such as Ebonite Factory Finish and Storm ReactaClean.
My shop told me not to use alcohol on urethane as it makes the cover brittle, so for that I use Windex.
I used acetone for awhile without knowing it, as a local shop mixed some in for their "special" formula cleaner. A buddy smelled it and knew immediately from the old days when people used it to soften up balls. It took everything off like magic, but when I found out what I was using I stopped.
Acetone softens urethane balls not reactive
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Post by: Thunder835 on March 08, 2010, 08:01:21 AM
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: JohnP on March 08, 2010, 09:35:01 AM
quote:
Acetone softens urethane balls not reactive
Reactive resin balls are modified urethane. -- JohnP
Post by: milorafferty on March 08, 2010, 10:19:03 AM
I have tried Powerhouse and Storm, neither are as effective as Simple Green or the Simple Green mix with water/alcohol.
Acetone will take ANYTHING off the cover of your ball, but seems to leave an odd feel to the surface. Not to mention it is pretty flammable, so not the safest thing to use.
Clean and Dull works well, just takes a little more time.
As for the commercial cleaners, Lane Masters is the best I have tried. The odor is a bit harsh, but nothing else cleans as well.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: snowspike1 on March 08, 2010, 01:31:23 PM
quote:
I do not work for a ball company. I work in a pro shop that only uses MANUFACTURED ball cleaners, not homemade cleaners. We carry all Ebonite and Storm cleaners. All I am saying is that if you really want your equipment to last as long as possible, use a real ball cleaner that is manufactured for bowling equipment. You should also have the ball revived every once in a while. People invest a lot of money in their bowling equipment and should maintain them as much as possible. Just because a product is "approved" by USBC doesn't make it a good choice to use as a cleaner.
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Track PBA Regional Staff
[/i]
http://www.bowlingball.com/brunswick-brunswick-remove-all-ball-cleaner-32-oz-bowling-accessory.html
the above "ball cleaner" is windex with a higher price tag and a bowling logo.
Post by: Thunder835 on March 08, 2010, 02:05:55 PM
quote:quote:
I do not work for a ball company. I work in a pro shop that only uses MANUFACTURED ball cleaners, not homemade cleaners. We carry all Ebonite and Storm cleaners. All I am saying is that if you really want your equipment to last as long as possible, use a real ball cleaner that is manufactured for bowling equipment. You should also have the ball revived every once in a while. People invest a lot of money in their bowling equipment and should maintain them as much as possible. Just because a product is "approved" by USBC doesn''t make it a good choice to use as a cleaner.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://www.bowlingball.com/brunswick-brunswick-remove-all-ball-cleaner-32-oz-bowling-accessory.html
the above "ball cleaner" is windex with a higher price tag and a bowling logo.
Maybe you haven''t read my posts. I never mentioned any Brunswick cleaners. I mentioned that we use EBONITE and STORM cleaners. However, that Brunswick cleaner is better for bowling equipment than Simple Green and Alcohol and Acetone!
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don''t lack strength, they lack will.[/i]
Edited on 3/8/2010 3:09 PM
Post by: milorafferty on March 08, 2010, 02:30:04 PM
quote:
ALL of the ball cleaners made by ball companies (chemical companies) are a form of alcohol, citric acid, and surfactants. Nothing fancy, nothing out of the ordinary, made with household chemicals. I have to laugh at anybody that thinks a cleaner such as Simple Green, which you can put your hands in, is actually going to hurt your bowling ball. If you do believe that, by all means pay a fortune for your pre-made cleaner. I am sure you are the type that pays more for a genuine "insert ball company here" microfiber towel instead of the no name brand you can get at the local AutoZone auto parts store for half the money.
I completely agree. And if you don't have AutoZone close by, Home Depot and Lowes sells microfiber towels in bundles for what you would pay for a single towel.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: bitbytebit on March 08, 2010, 02:31:44 PM
Chris
Post by: milorafferty on March 08, 2010, 02:32:10 PM
quote:
It's just amazing people are so cheap / so hurting for money they cant spend what 10-15 dollars on some RemedyRx.
How do you all do anything?
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GetOffMe10Pin
This comment coming from someone who has "Turtle Wax" listed as the surface on their C300 White Dot???
I'm not cheap, but I do expect value for the money I spend.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: bitbytebit on March 08, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
Post by: milorafferty on March 08, 2010, 02:43:29 PM
quote:
Yeah I found microfiber towels for 70 cents each online somewhere awhile back, have over 40 I got for 30 dollars or so. It's crazy, companies are making these balls that are more and more oil absorbing hook-in-the-box monsters with cheap thin brittle cover stocks. Then expect people to pay crazy prices for maintenance tools/supplies for them. If the coverstocks were thicker, so they could handle absorbing more oil and not get saturated so quickly, and relied more on coverstock surface instead of being brittle and porous. Then we wouldn't need so much cleaner and microfiber towels stockpiled. I am moving to using Visionary bowling balls because of this, they don't wear out near as fast, and don't need rejuvenations every 50-100 games too. My storm bowling balls covers seem to flake off like cement does with wear, show dents easily from ball returns compared to plastic/urethane (and possibly other newer coverstocks from people like Visionary I'm hoping). So there has to be some respect for people wanting to save money, cause there's a high cost to maintaining a set of bowling balls with all those variables working against you.
Lane Master/Legends ball have very durable coverstocks as well. Not to mention that they don't soak up the oil, especially compare to say, Storm and Brunswick balls.
I have a Motiv GT-1 and it doesn't seem to soak up oil much either.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: milorafferty on March 08, 2010, 03:06:51 PM
quote:quote:quote:
It's just amazing people are so cheap / so hurting for money they cant spend what 10-15 dollars on some RemedyRx.
How do you all do anything?
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GetOffMe10Pin
This comment coming from someone who has "Turtle Wax" listed as the surface on their C300 White Dot???
I'm not cheap, but I do expect value for the money I spend.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
However the Turtle Wax makes the ball go completely straight (especially plastic). So that's a functional use.
I'm just making the point, but ball cleaner. You'll just say you're mixing you're own for value etc, I say stop being a cheapskate and buy F'ing ball cleaner.
We move on......
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GetOffMe10Pin
I'm not saying I use Simple Green/Alcohol Mix to save the money only. It WORKS as well or better than all cleaners I have tried. So take your cheapskate and stick it in your bag.
I'm sure there is an more expensive, brand name bowling product you can buy instead of Turtle Wax isn't there? Go spend the money for it.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: Jay on March 09, 2010, 03:56:50 AM
Has anyone used Black Magic Rejuvenator? How does it compare to Legends Cleaners?
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Justin
Post by: cappy718 on March 09, 2010, 11:19:07 AM
....lmao the ball that I've done this too the most (Original Fury) hooks more than any other ball in my arsenal(NVS, Gladiator Pearl, Radical inferno) and I've had it for 3 years now.
Post by: milorafferty on March 09, 2010, 11:26:29 AM
quote:
I've soaked my balls in "Super Clean"/water dillute in a chilli pot. It brings the oil to the surface of the ball and then wipe it off with a rag with rubbing alcohol on it. I guess I'm going to hell for this cuz i didnt buy the "approved" cleaner.
....lmao the ball that I've done this too the most (Original Fury) hooks more than any other ball in my arsenal(NVS, Gladiator Pearl, Radical inferno) and I've had it for 3 years now.
Yep, your soul is doomed for sure. Unless of course you get back on a righteous path to salvation with the correct application of your money into the proper and deserving hands.
That must be one big chili pot. By the way, what is Super Clean?
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: cappy718 on March 09, 2010, 12:19:14 PM
Simple green would work just as well though.
Post by: Steven on March 09, 2010, 12:45:43 PM
quote:
I'd rather use the money I save and get in more jackpots. I like to keep as much of my hard earned money as I can.
Wow. How many additional jackpots does that spare change get you into? I guess changing your handle from 'cool rockin daddy' to 'letsbowl4quarters' does have some real world relevance. Nice.
If you believe that Simple Green has the same cleaning power as C&D or Hook-It, you've set up camp deep inside the grounds of 'cheap and ignorant'. The reality is that you don't have a clue about the better competing products. Yet you continue to spread the same bad and inaccurate information.
BTW, have you figured out the difference between an Abralon Pad and a Brillo Pad yet?
Post by: milorafferty on March 09, 2010, 12:53:46 PM
quote:quote:
I'd rather use the money I save and get in more jackpots. I like to keep as much of my hard earned money as I can.
Wow. How many additional jackpots does that spare change get you into? I guess changing your handle from 'cool rockin daddy' to 'letsbowl4quarters' does have some real world relevance. Nice.
If you believe that Simple Green has the same cleaning power as C&D or Hook-It, you've set up camp deep inside the grounds of 'cheap and ignorant'. The reality is that you don't have a clue about the better competing products. Yet you continue to spread the same bad and inaccurate information.
BTW, have you figured out the difference between an Abralon Pad and a Brillo Pad yet?
Abralon Pad?? Isn't that a 24 hour race somewhere in Europe?
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 09, 2010, 12:57:03 PM
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: snowspike1 on March 09, 2010, 01:10:49 PM
quote:quote:
I'd rather use the money I save and get in more jackpots. I like to keep as much of my hard earned money as I can.
Wow. How many additional jackpots does that spare change get you into? I guess changing your handle from 'cool rockin daddy' to 'letsbowl4quarters' does have some real world relevance. Nice.
If you believe that Simple Green has the same cleaning power as C&D or Hook-It, you've set up camp deep inside the grounds of 'cheap and ignorant'. The reality is that you don't have a clue about the better competing products. Yet you continue to spread the same bad and inaccurate information.
BTW, have you figured out the difference between an Abralon Pad and a Brillo Pad yet?
since when is "hoot-it" a cleaner?
Post by: stopncrank on March 09, 2010, 01:15:04 PM
One thing ive noticed is the Clean and Dull does just that, it cleans and dulls, so if you are just looking to clean up the surface without removing the shine from the ball, then I'd stay away from C&D.
Most of the manufacturer's cleaners and the Simple Green mixture acheive the same result, they remove a small layer of dirt, oil and grime from the cover of the ball. Show me proof where just because the bottle has a ball manufacturer's name on it it gets better results than the Simple Green mixture...you cant.
And what's with bashing somebody because they want to do their own maintenence at home? Is it cheap, frugal?? Yeah maybe but so what? Why spend almost 3 times more for something i can mix at home and get the same results? OMG, i dont know how my Hot Rod SS pearl has lasted as long as it has, especailly since i havent used Reacta-Shine on it since i purchased it....
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Post by: bitbytebit on March 09, 2010, 01:28:51 PM
Post by: Thunder835 on March 09, 2010, 01:52:17 PM
quote:quote:quote:
I'd rather use the money I save and get in more jackpots. I like to keep as much of my hard earned money as I can.
Wow. How many additional jackpots does that spare change get you into? I guess changing your handle from 'cool rockin daddy' to 'letsbowl4quarters' does have some real world relevance. Nice.
If you believe that Simple Green has the same cleaning power as C&D or Hook-It, you've set up camp deep inside the grounds of 'cheap and ignorant'. The reality is that you don't have a clue about the better competing products. Yet you continue to spread the same bad and inaccurate information.
BTW, have you figured out the difference between an Abralon Pad and a Brillo Pad yet?
since when is "hoot-it" a cleaner?
Where do you see "hoot-it". Re-read the message! It clearly says HOOK-IT.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: Thunder835 on March 09, 2010, 01:54:40 PM
quote:
I have an used everything from Clean and Dull, Most of the manufacturer's cleaners including the old Track Magic stuff, Storm Reacta-Shine etc. I've also used the Simple Green mixture for years having worked in several pro shops over the years too.
One thing ive noticed is the Clean and Dull does just that, it cleans and dulls, so if you are just looking to clean up the surface without removing the shine from the ball, then I'd stay away from C&D.
Most of the manufacturer's cleaners and the Simple Green mixture acheive the same result, they remove a small layer of dirt, oil and grime from the cover of the ball. Show me proof where just because the bottle has a ball manufacturer's name on it it gets better results than the Simple Green mixture...you cant.
And what's with bashing somebody because they want to do their own maintenence at home? Is it cheap, frugal?? Yeah maybe but so what? Why spend almost 3 times more for something i can mix at home and get the same results? OMG, i dont know how my Hot Rod SS pearl has lasted as long as it has, especailly since i havent used Reacta-Shine on it since i purchased it....
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Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Clean N' Dull does not change the surface of the ball. It "deep cleans" the surface of the ball. If the ball was originally a dull surface ball, it will restore it to that finish. If it's a polished ball, it will clean the surface and restore the tacky finish. Read the bottle. It clearly says it does not alter the surface of the ball.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
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Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: J_w73 on March 09, 2010, 02:04:53 PM
quote:
Super clean is a heavy duty degreaser that is concentrated. I only use like a 1/2 to 1 cup of it in the big chilli pot. W/o the ball the pot is about 1/2 full. So yes, it''s a huge chilli pot, but it works! You can find super clean at walmart in the automotive section. It''s like 6-8 bucks for a gallon bottle. Or you can get the knock off stuff called "Awesome" (a little cheaper) which is purple as well, but works about the same. All the balls i''ve done this to are darker in color though. Never had the discoloration happen. (Done it to Fury, NVS, Radical Inferno, Raw Anger, Elite Eclipse, Morich Awesome Finish)
Simple green would work just as well though.
Castrol Super Clean and Simple Green are both approved by the USBC for use anytime on bowling balls. Supposedly USBC has done testing on all of these cleaners to make sure they fall within the rules and don''t harm the surface integrity of the bowling ball.
HAHACommercial Products
Approved Anytime
Ammonia
Castrol Super Clean
CV-88
Denatured Ethanol
Jolt Detergent
Orange Clean Multipurpose Degreaser
Rubbing Alcohol (Isopropyl)
Simple Green
Spray Nine Multi-Purpose Cleaner
Windex
HAHA... just noticed Denatured Ethanol on the list of being approved anytime.. I just wrote USBC about this as well. Denatured Ethanol can potentially contain substances that are not allowed at anytime by the USBC and will definately alter the surface.. like acetone or methyl ethyl ketone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol
I once read an article that said not to use Denatured Ehtanol on a ball because over time (because of those additives) it can soften and basically melt the cover stock down and ruin the porosity.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Edited on 3/9/2010 3:09 PM
Post by: TheFreeAgent on March 09, 2010, 02:07:07 PM
quote:
I do not work for a ball company. I work in a pro shop that only uses MANUFACTURED ball cleaners, not homemade cleaners. We carry all Ebonite and Storm cleaners. All I am saying is that if you really want your equipment to last as long as possible, use a real ball cleaner that is manufactured for bowling equipment. You should also have the ball revived every once in a while. People invest a lot of money in their bowling equipment and should maintain them as much as possible. Just because a product is "approved" by USBC doesn't make it a good choice to use as a cleaner.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
and just because its MANUFACTURED doesnt make it any better than house hold cleaners. Just 10X the price
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA)
Post by: charlest on March 09, 2010, 02:07:32 PM
quote:
I have an used everything from Clean and Dull, Most of the manufacturer''s cleaners including the old Track Magic stuff, Storm Reacta-Shine etc. I''ve also used the Simple Green mixture for years having worked in several pro shops over the years too.
One thing ive noticed is the Clean and Dull does just that, it cleans and dulls, so if you are just looking to clean up the surface without removing the shine from the ball, then I''d stay away from C&D.
I do not know how you are applying C&D but it still does not dull polished balls UNLESS the polish or shine is due to oil being rubbed into the surface. Oil shines are very hard to get rid of, and C&D does get rid of them. SG does not.
Polish is NOT a coating, like paint or polyurethane. To remove polish you MUST use an abrasive. There is no abrasive in C&D. It is a gel. It is not an acid that etches materials. It does not burn my hands although I try to make sure I use gloves when I use it.
quote:
Most of the manufacturer''s cleaners and the Simple Green mixture acheive the same result, they remove a small layer of dirt, oil and grime from the cover of the ball. Show me proof where just because the bottle has a ball manufacturer''s name on it it gets better results than the Simple Green mixtur...you cant.
No, but my results prove to me that Simple Green just does not remove oil lines, not oil laying on top of the ball, but oil ground into the surface.
Seeing all the "testimony" in this thread about SG, I once again tried a 50/50 combo of concentrated SG and 70% isopropyl alcohol. It most defintiely does NOT remove oil lines, like the really good bowling-ball specific cleaners, like Clean and Dull and Lanemasters cleaner and Hook-It and Remedy.
quote:
And what''s with bashing somebody because they want to do their own maintenence at home? Is it cheap, frugal?? Yeah maybe but so what? Why spend almost 3 times more for something i can mix at home and get the same results? OMG, i dont know how my Hot Rod SS pearl has lasted as long as it has, especailly since i havent used Reacta-Shine on it since i purchased it....
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
You want use it. I won''t be the one to even think of trying to stop you. Please go ahead. Just don''t make fun of me because I choose to use cleaners that seem to work for me. Money doesn''t enter into this equation for me. No, I''m far from rich. I just want something that I know works.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 3/9/2010 3:09 PM
Post by: Steven on March 09, 2010, 02:22:50 PM
quote:
Seeing all the "testimony" in this thread about SG, I once again tried a 50/50 combo of concentrated SG and 70% isopropyl alcohol. It most definitely does NOT remove oil lines like the really good Bowling-ball specific cleaners, like Clean and Dull and Lanemasters and Hook-It and Remedy.
Charlest: Exactly.
A direct comparison of SG mixtures against Hook-It and C&D caliber cleaners leads to only one conclusion: SG mixtures do not clean as well, nor remove oil lines with the same thoroughness.
If you want to argue that balls have to eventually be de-oiled using an oven or a bath anyway, then you might have a point to discuss. That's the only real angle in making a case for a less potent home brew cleaner like SG.
Post by: BowlOgre21 on March 09, 2010, 02:27:28 PM
Post by: Steven on March 09, 2010, 02:41:14 PM
quote:
SG&Alcohol is just as good as powerhouse cleaner, reacta clean, etc other "every day" cleaners, but its nowhere near Clean & Dull, Resurrection, and the other "deep" cleaners.
Hook-It is an everyday cleaner that falls into the "deep" cleaning category. There may be others as well.
BTW, Resurrection changes the surface of the ball to 800 Matte, so it 'cleans' as a by-product of resurfacing.
Post by: stopncrank on March 09, 2010, 02:56:39 PM
quote:quote:
I have an used everything from Clean and Dull, Most of the manufacturer''s cleaners including the old Track Magic stuff, Storm Reacta-Shine etc. I''ve also used the Simple Green mixture for years having worked in several pro shops over the years too.
One thing ive noticed is the Clean and Dull does just that, it cleans and dulls, so if you are just looking to clean up the surface without removing the shine from the ball, then I''d stay away from C&D.
I do not know how you are applying C&D but it still does not dull polished balls UNLESS the polish or shine is due to oil being rubbed into the surface. Oil shines are very hard to get rid of, and C&D does get rid of them. SG does not.
Polish is NOT a coating, like paint or polyurethane. To remove polish you MUST use an abrasive. There is no abrasive in C&D. It is a gel. It is not an acid that etches materials. It does not burn my hands although I try to make sure I use gloves when I use it.quote:
Most of the manufacturer''s cleaners and the Simple Green mixture acheive the same result, they remove a small layer of dirt, oil and grime from the cover of the ball. Show me proof where just because the bottle has a ball manufacturer''s name on it it gets better results than the Simple Green mixtur...you cant.
No, but my results prove to me that Simple Green just does not remove oil lines, not oil laying on top of the ball, but oil ground into the surface.
Seeing all the "testimony" in this thread about SG, I once again tried a 50/50 combo of concentrated SG and 70% isopropyl alcohol. It most defintiely does NOT remove oil lines, like the really good bowling-ball specific cleaners, like Clean and Dull and Lanemasters cleaner and Hook-It and Remedy.quote:
And what''s with bashing somebody because they want to do their own maintenence at home? Is it cheap, frugal?? Yeah maybe but so what? Why spend almost 3 times more for something i can mix at home and get the same results? OMG, i dont know how my Hot Rod SS pearl has lasted as long as it has, especailly since i havent used Reacta-Shine on it since i purchased it....
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
You want use it. I won''t be the one to even think of trying to stop you. Please go ahead. Just don''t make fun of me because I choose to use cleaners that seem to work for me. Money doesn''t enter into this equation for me. No, I''m far from rich. I just want something that I know works.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 3/9/2010 3:09 PM
The last time i used Clean and Dull was at least 10 years ago and it came in a metal can and was liquid, and in fact did do some degree remove polish, sir. I havent used it since.
As for making fun of you for using a manufacturer's cleaner, please show me where i made fun of anybody that uses them?? If you want to stake you claim as the be all end all of coverstock prep, layouts and everything in between here on Ballreviews, thats cool bud, but dont put words in my mouth to make your point, clear? My point in my previous post was, basically who cares?? If you want to spend 3 times as much to clean your stuff than somebody who uses Simple Green, good for you! But just because you do, and somebody else doesnt, doesnt make your way the only way, sir.
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Post by: leftykev on March 09, 2010, 04:27:24 PM
Anyway, I wonder how difficult it would be to discover if the ball manufacturers are simply re-branding commercial cleaning products, and marking up the price. Many companies re-brand products, because it saves costs versus creating an original product.
This is not speculation, just a common business practice. Sadly, the ball manufacturers assume that bowlers are gullible enough to pay higher than retail pricing for something that can purchase at Walmart.
I do know for sure that Brunswick Remove All Ball Cleaner is re-branded Windex cleaner, or the same exact formula. I have a buddy who works for a lab, who tested the difference between the Brunswick cleaner and simple Windex. It's the same!
Post by: cappy718 on March 09, 2010, 04:43:11 PM
Post by: milorafferty on March 09, 2010, 04:47:08 PM
quote:
Ha! This is one of the most entertaining posts I have read in a long time.
Anyway, I wonder how difficult it would be to discover if the ball manufacturers are simply re-branding commercial cleaning products, and marking up the price. Many companies re-brand products, because it saves costs versus creating an original product.
This is not speculation, just a common business practice. Sadly, the ball manufacturers assume that bowlers are gullible enough to pay higher than retail pricing for something that can purchase at Walmart.
I do know for sure that Brunswick Remove All Ball Cleaner is re-branded Windex cleaner, or the same exact formula. I have a buddy who works for a lab, who tested the difference between the Brunswick cleaner and simple Windex. It's the same!
DUDE!!! You must have lost your FRRREEEEAAAAKKKKING mind. Have you not read the post here? You spray that on your bowling ball and it will just EXPLODE!
Not to mention that it will cause your credit score to go down, make the tires on your car go flat, and even cause your last name to be misspelled! (Unless of course, you go back to buying a "proper" ball cleaner, then the universe will be rescued)
--------------------
Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: leftykev on March 09, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
quote:
DUDE!!! You must have lost your FRRREEEEAAAAKKKKING mind. Have you not read the post here? You spray that on your bowling ball and it will just EXPLODE!
Not to mention that it will cause your credit score to go down, make the tires on your car go flat, and even cause your last name to be misspelled! (Unless of course, you go back to buying a "proper" ball cleaner, then the universe will be rescued)
--------------------
Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Dam! That's why my tire went flat this morning. At least with all the money I save with Simple Green, I can now afford a new tire!
Post by: milorafferty on March 09, 2010, 05:11:34 PM
quote:
Unbelievable. I don't know how you can say a Simple Green solution does not remove oil rings. Maybe you don't wipe your ball with a microfiber towel as part of your preshot routine. All I know is this, if there is ANYTHING on my bowling ball after a game, I spray my Simple Green/water/isopropyl mix on the ball, take my shoes off, then wipe ball down with a terry cloth. Guess what? No oil rings, no belt marks, just pristine ball surface. It really doesn't matter though, people will do what they want to do. I guess some people are smarter about it than others.
Actually, I think it might be that folks like you and I live in some fantasy world where anything that is less expensive can't be as good. Just my opinion. :-D
--------------------
Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: Jay on March 09, 2010, 05:20:00 PM
--------------------
Justin
Post by: snowspike1 on March 09, 2010, 05:29:33 PM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
I'd rather use the money I save and get in more jackpots. I like to keep as much of my hard earned money as I can.
Wow. How many additional jackpots does that spare change get you into? I guess changing your handle from 'cool rockin daddy' to 'letsbowl4quarters' does have some real world relevance. Nice.
If you believe that Simple Green has the same cleaning power as C&D or Hook-It, you've set up camp deep inside the grounds of 'cheap and ignorant'. The reality is that you don't have a clue about the better competing products. Yet you continue to spread the same bad and inaccurate information.
BTW, have you figured out the difference between an Abralon Pad and a Brillo Pad yet?
since when is "hoot-it" a cleaner?
Where do you see "hoot-it". Re-read the message! It clearly says HOOK-IT.
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
WELL EXCUSE ME FOR HAVEING A FUMBLE THUMB. I was useing my phone and the keys are a little close.
but it still stands since when is HOOK IT a f'ing cleaner.
Post by: charlest on March 09, 2010, 05:52:31 PM
quote:
If you want to stake you claim as the be all end all of coverstock prep, layouts and everything in between here on Ballreviews, thats cool bud, but dont put words in my mouth to make your point, clear?
I have never "staked" any claim. "Don't put words in my mouth." I simply stated my experience.
[quote[
My point in my previous post was, basically who cares?? If you want to spend 3 times as much to clean your stuff than somebody who uses Simple Green, good for you! But just because you do, and somebody else doesnt, doesnt make your way the only way, sir.
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....[/quote]
ONCED AGAIN, my point was not to spend 3x as much money. AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN!!!! do not put words in my mouth!!!!
READ MY LIPS!!
I want something I know will clean. In my experience, (READ MY LIPS!!) Simple Green does not do the job.
R - E - A - D M - Y F - R - E - A - K - I - N - G L - I - P - S!!!!!!!
Absolutley no where did I ever say, that my way was the only way.
You, sir, seem to have your own agenda, trying to insist that you're seeing words I did not write, nor even imply. You are what's wrong and what has become so VERY, VERY wrong with this website. Take your agenda elsewhere. I am sick of it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on March 09, 2010, 05:55:53 PM
quote:
Unbelievable. I don't know how you can say a Simple Green solution does not remove oil rings. Maybe you don't wipe your ball with a microfiber towel as part of your preshot routine. All I know is this, if there is ANYTHING on my bowling ball after a game, I spray my Simple Green/water/isopropyl mix on the ball, take my shoes off, then wipe ball down with a terry cloth. Guess what? No oil rings, no belt marks, just pristine ball surface. It really doesn't matter though, people will do what they want to do. I guess some people are smarter about it than others.
Unbelieveable?
No. I just did it today. I bowled 6 practice games on fresh oil. I mixed the concentrated SG with fresh 70% alcohol yesterday. I cleaned the balls after bowling today. I used a micro-fiber towel and poured the mixture on the towel and rubbed and rubbed and rubbed. The oil lines stayed there. end of story.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on March 09, 2010, 06:01:06 PM
quote:quote:
Seeing all the "testimony" in this thread about SG, I once again tried a 50/50 combo of concentrated SG and 70% isopropyl alcohol. It most defintiely does NOT remove oil lines, like the really good bowling-ball specific cleaners, like Clean and Dull and Lanemasters cleaner and Hook-It and Remedy.
when you average 180 and have experimented with that many cleaners, you should just murder yourself and be done with it
--------------------
John "Steven" Parry...The Lane 1 rocket surgeon officially sponsored by Kool-aid and M&Ms....
Another one who once they can no longer argue rationally seeks only personal attacks as their "argument". Sad. So sad.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: J_Mac on March 09, 2010, 06:03:11 PM
--------------------
Bowlingballreviews.com... Gone, but not forgotten. Wayback Machine - http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
Post by: Steven on March 09, 2010, 06:04:01 PM
quote:
WELL EXCUSE ME FOR HAVEING A FUMBLE THUMB. I was useing my phone and the keys are a little close.
but it still stands since when is HOOK IT a f'ing cleaner.
Since like, always??
From the Neotac website:
"Removes oil, dirt and belt marks from particle and reactive bowling balls."
And it does a great job. It's the best spray cleaner I've used. The product runs circles around Simple Green.
Post by: Oskuposer on March 09, 2010, 06:21:15 PM
--------------------
Kiall Hill
900Global
AMF 300
Good Stuff
Post by: Thunder835 on March 09, 2010, 09:01:07 PM
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: leftykev on March 09, 2010, 09:11:06 PM
quote:
I guess it really does not matter what you clean your bowling ball with because at the rate this post is getting replies, NOBODY HAS THE TIME TO CLEAN THEIR BOWLING BALLS!
Hey Man! I always make sure my balls are clean before I going bowling, and so are my bowling balls!
Post by: Thunder835 on March 10, 2010, 04:06:04 AM
quote:quote:
I guess it really does not matter what you clean your bowling ball with because at the rate this post is getting replies, NOBODY HAS THE TIME TO CLEAN THEIR BOWLING BALLS!
Hey Man! I always make sure my balls are clean before I going bowling, and so are my bowling balls!
Personal hygiene is a good thing! LMAO
--------------------
Track PBA Regional Staff
http://s318.photobucket.com/albums/mm427/thunder835/Track%20Equipment/
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
People don't lack strength, they lack will.
Post by: Mr Old School on March 10, 2010, 04:41:41 AM
--------------------
Mr. Old SchoolIf you can't swing it, Your probally throwing brunswick!
Visionary test staff
Post by: stopncrank on March 10, 2010, 06:13:19 AM
quote:quote:
If you want to stake you claim as the be all end all of coverstock prep, layouts and everything in between here on Ballreviews, thats cool bud, but dont put words in my mouth to make your point, clear?
I have never "staked" any claim. "Don't put words in my mouth." I simply stated my experience.
[quote[
My point in my previous post was, basically who cares?? If you want to spend 3 times as much to clean your stuff than somebody who uses Simple Green, good for you! But just because you do, and somebody else doesnt, doesnt make your way the only way, sir.
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
ONCED AGAIN, my point was not to spend 3x as much money. AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN!!!! do not put words in my mouth!!!!
READ MY LIPS!!
I want something I know will clean. In my experience, (READ MY LIPS!!) Simple Green does not do the job.
R - E - A - D M - Y F - R - E - A - K - I - N - G L - I - P - S!!!!!!!
Absolutley no where did I ever say, that my way was the only way.
You, sir, seem to have your own agenda, trying to insist that you're seeing words I did not write, nor even imply. You are what's wrong and what has become so VERY, VERY wrong with this website. Take your agenda elsewhere. I am sick of it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see." [/quote]
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Post by: stopncrank on March 10, 2010, 06:20:58 AM
quote:quote:
If you want to stake you claim as the be all end all of coverstock prep, layouts and everything in between here on Ballreviews, thats cool bud, but dont put words in my mouth to make your point, clear?
I have never "staked" any claim. "Don't put words in my mouth." I simply stated my experience.
And i stated my experience, as well. If it doesnt take oil rings off FOR YOU, then dont use it!!!!! Its the same thing with you every week charles, your fine as long as people agree with you, the minute somebody doesnt, you go all to he!!, im sick of that SIR...
[quote[
My point in my previous post was, basically who cares?? If you want to spend 3 times as much to clean your stuff than somebody who uses Simple Green, good for you! But just because you do, and somebody else doesnt, doesnt make your way the only way, sir.
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
ONCED AGAIN, my point was not to spend 3x as much money. AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN!!!! do not put words in my mouth!!!!
READ MY LIPS!!
I want something I know will clean. In my experience, (READ MY LIPS!!) Simple Green does not do the job.
R - E - A - D M - Y F - R - E - A - K - I - N - G L - I - P - S!!!!!!!
Absolutley no where did I ever say, that my way was the only way.
You, sir, seem to have your own agenda, trying to insist that you're seeing words I did not write, nor even imply. You are what's wrong and what has become so VERY, VERY wrong with this website. Take your agenda elsewhere. I am sick of it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see." [/quote]
I never put words in your mouth, but here again when somebody disagrees with your opinion, you go on a rant chest bumping all your buddies that agree with you, Im SICK OF THAT!!! I dont have an agenda at all, just an opinion on things that i have just as much right to voice on here as you do, right or wrong...I never claimed that freaking Simple Green was the best, i simply stated what i have found, im so sorry my opinion didnt agree with yours.
And if you are so tired of this website and the people on it, why do you continue to come here every day???? Take my agenda elsewhere? Please tell me allmighty charlest what my agenda is???
--------------------
Taking your lunch money, one strike at a time....
Post by: nutsforbowling on March 10, 2010, 06:52:45 AM
Post by: cappy718 on March 10, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
LMMFAO...SARC!
Post by: J_w73 on March 10, 2010, 08:38:22 AM
quote:
Straight denatured ethyl alchohol is the BEST ball cleaner without exception.
--------------------
Righty
Speed: 16.5 (Quibica)
Revs: med-high to high (@400 RPM)
Axis: 5-3/4" 5/16 down
See Profile for arsenal
Now that it is approved for anytime use I might have to agree. It was not allowed for the longest time because the denaturing agents that are sometimes used are acetone, mek, and other solvents of sort. The USBC says they did testing with denatured ethyl alcohol and found that it did not soften , leave a residue or change the coverstock that is why they put it on the approved list. I'm not too sure about that though.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: Steven on March 10, 2010, 08:49:00 AM
quote:
Hey, it's everybody's favorite effete, self absorbed bowling snob from CA once again weighing in on something he knows nothing about.
CRD/LB4M: Coming from you, I take the above for what it's worth, which isn't a whole lot.
Actually, I used Simple Green for ball cleaning for several years. I used it straight, and with different combinations of water and alcohol. I found using it at full strength followed by a spray wipe down of water gave the best results. Like anything else, experiment and see what works best for you. In that realm, I liked F409 a little better, but try and see for yourself.
Like all threads, this one went in a slightly different direction, so don't get your skirt ruffled. The bottom line is that while the household cleaners work (to some degree), they're not the most effective choice. That's a fact. And I know this because simple comparison tests prove it.
I know, you can't be bothered by really easy curiosity experiments. I guess it's too exhausting after intense spare change pot bowling. But don't impose your well documented limitations on others. Maybe they'd like to see for themselves.
Post by: Steven on March 10, 2010, 11:37:22 AM
quote:
Valentinos, Ebonite, Storm, Neo-Technologies, Lane Masters, etc. do not make their MSDS safety sheets available online at their sites nor can you find them on the internet in a browser search.
So what? I'm more concerned with the results than the specific chemicals used.
quote:
What does all this mean? These cleaners are all the same.
What a weak reach. Absolutely wrong....If you had ever worked with Hook-It and used the simple lipnus test of smell, liquid consistency, and plain visual effectiveness, you wouldn't embarrass yourself with attempts at being knowledgeable.
quote:
How about that? That's alright though. Steven and Charlest must be the same people who pay the same for a jug of 50/50 Water/Antifreeze as they do for a jug of pure AntiFreeze. Keep on marching to the beat of those marketing departments, boys.
And keep burying your head in the sand with respect to the effectiveness of at least some commercial bowling products. I'm not claiming the some aren't essentially rebranded household cleaners, but to make a broad brush claim that they all fall into the same category is just overt ignorance.
Post by: snowspike1 on March 10, 2010, 11:40:59 AM
(Front side)
*increases "tac" for greater hook
*leaves dull bowling ball dull
*leaves shiny bowling balls shiny
*excellent results by hand
(Back side)
For best results (on polished bowling balls) use Neo-Tac Renew-It prior to applying Hook-It
Directions: Shake well before useing. Apply to clean paper towel. Useing circular motion, rub on one half of bowling ball. Continue to rub until all the product is removed from the ball. If a film remains onthe ball surface continue to rub until film is removed. Repeat on remaining half of the ball. Keep the product from contact with vinyl inserts. Discard paper towels after use. DO NOT store paper towels on or in your bowling equipment.
Caution: Keep out of reach.................
Nowhere does it say cleaner. "INCREASES TAC" why else dose your hands feel like you just climbed a pine tree (sticky). How this stuff is approved for use during comp. It may not alter the surface but it does add to it.
Hook-it just like control-it are not cleaners Renew-it is a cleaner and still i have better results with Simple Green mix.
The pro-shops in this area use windex and even sell the brunswick stuff (even refills... (refilling it with you guessed it windex) for 1/2 the price of new bottle. Man what a scam they got. But as this thread shows some people judge cleaner by the bottle it comes in and will pay thru the nose for it.
Post by: Steven on March 10, 2010, 11:54:46 AM
quote:
"Removes oil, dirt and belt marks from particle and reactive bowling balls."
It does the above really well. It will take off belt marks that SG can't dent. If anything, that's a testimate to it's strength.
Who knows what the liquid inside that 15 year old bottle you have has morphed to. It sounds like a candidate for a one-way ticket to a toxic waste dump.
Post by: J_w73 on March 10, 2010, 12:01:24 PM
quote:
Nowhere does it say cleaner. "INCREASES TAC" why else dose your hands feel like you just climbed a pine tree (sticky). How this stuff is approved for use during comp. It may not alter the surface but it does add to it.
I agree with you about how stuff is approved for use during competition. There are plenty of products approved for use during competition that alter the surface of the ball or add to it. Seems like the USBC only cares if you take a piece of sand paper to your ball and dull it up.
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Edited on 3/10/2010 1:06 PM
Post by: Steven on March 10, 2010, 12:29:05 PM
It's all about results. The bottom line is that there are at least two cleaners (C&D and Hook-It, probably more) that blow away Simple Green in any comparative test you can perform for yourself. You can go ahead and break your arm patting yourself on the back for using a cheaper but less effective solution. That's your choice.
Just like your cheap ball de-oil method. You'll waste gallons of water to get a fraction of the oil a Revivor machine will pull out. Why? Because again, you're cheap, and you want to save a few quarters for those hard nosed post handicap league pot games.
Yea, you are a smart guy......
Post by: Steven on March 10, 2010, 01:01:16 PM
quote:
No, donk, as usual I post facts. As usual, you just projectile vomit your tired old opinions all over the clean table cloth of a topic. And as usual, that's all it is with no facts to back up what you say.
Facts? You post that many of the ball cleaning manufacturers don't post their chemical compositions, so you just ASSume they're all the same. Why? Because you simply want it to be so.
Simplistic, moronic, and pure 'cool rockin daddy'. You can't extend yourself to perform the simplest of comparisons, so you reject any notion that SG is the end all to ball cleaning solutions.
You wouldn't know a FACT if it bit you on the azz and left a Tattoo with flashing neon lights to remind you. Carry on....
Post by: Bowlin for Beer on March 10, 2010, 01:28:40 PM
Post by: NoseofRI on March 10, 2010, 01:34:49 PM
quote:
you wouldn't embarrass yourself with attempts at being knowledgeable.
Hey Steven, just like to first say this is a very intriguing thread you've dove into here. I was just curious though, seeing how you said the above statement about someone else could you please enlighten us on how the below test is performed?
quote:
lipnus test
Oh, just to help out a little, if you can't find the direct definition or steps to performing this test, try looking up Litmus Test instead.
Congrats on your attempt at being knowledgeable....
Simply Amazing!!
Post by: TDC57 on March 10, 2010, 01:37:06 PM
Post by: milorafferty on March 10, 2010, 02:19:20 PM
quote:
If you are doing deep cleaning then Clean and Dull is the answer. For anything else the Simple Green, alcohol, water mixture will do as well or outclean any ball company cleaner out there for much less money. I've tried many cleaners and I dare anyone to prove that some companies cleaner does a better job!!
I keep seeing references to "Deep Cleaning" in this thread. I just don't see how a liquid could do that. If the ball absorbs oil into the cover, that would mean it has capillary action. So if another liquid was applied, would that liquid not be absorbed as well? I can't see how a liquid could reverse the capillary action and actually remove anything from other than the surface of the ball. So exactly how would deep cleaning work? It would seem to defy the laws of physics to me.
--------------------
Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: snowspike1 on March 10, 2010, 03:00:46 PM
quote:
Just like your cheap ball de-oil method. You''ll waste gallons of water to get a fraction of the oil a Revivor machine will pull out. Why? Because again, you''re cheap, and you want to save a few quarters for those hard nosed post handicap league pot games.
the following is from an email i got from Mike Sargent Storm bowling Tech...
De-oiling the ball is one last option that isn’t always a concern, but depending on the ball and what type of lane conditions you bowl on, it may be necessary over time. In order to de-oil the ball without damaging the molecular structure or inter-cohesion of the coverstock we recommend giving the ball a hot-water bath. We don’t recommend using dry heat methods, especially ovens or otherwise because the temperatures often exceed safe parameters. Dry heat can also pull the moisture from the coverstock and certain additives we’ve used to create ball reaction can literally bake off. As such, dry heat or excessive heat may remove the oil, but it may also weaken the coverstock and kill the ball’s over-all reaction if the key additives are ‘baked’ off. Therefore, warm water is the ideal medium because it isn’t going to negatively effect the coverstock as certain other methods may.
The recommended temperature for the warm water bath is just slightly above that of a Hot Tub, typically around 110 – 120 degrees Fahrenheit. This is hot enough to remove the oil, but not hot enough to damage the ball. Please be aware that pro-longed exposure at this temperature can cause burning. As such, please avoid prolonged exposure to your skin or any contact with your eyes. We recommend using a water source where you can readily add or remove water to keep the water temperature constant. The addition of dish-soap is recommended but not required.
The easiest method for oil removal is to do multiple balls at once (if you have them) in the bath tub with warm water. Put the ball(s) in the water and let them soak for 20 – 30 minutes. Then, we recommend removing them, toweling them off to remove the oil, and putting them back in the water. You may want to add more hot water occasionally to keep the temperature around the ideal range of 110 – 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Continue to do this every 20 – 30 minutes until no visible oil comes to the surface of the ball. This will ensure the ball(s) have been safely de-oiled and are back to near out of box quality.
so what about the rejuvanator oven there? according to storm dont put there balls in 1 (i would hazard a guess and say that goes for Roto too).
so much for the cheap side cause its the reccomended way.
Edited on 3/10/2010 4:01 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 10, 2010, 03:26:19 PM
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: lrtrees on March 13, 2010, 08:00:29 AM
Post by: JohnP on March 13, 2010, 10:24:11 AM
Post by: justinmill14 on March 13, 2010, 11:03:20 AM
Edited on 3/13/2010 12:03 PM
Post by: J_w73 on March 13, 2010, 11:35:29 AM
quote:
I have a question about using the simple green for cleaning balls. Is it alright to use on polished balls? Or can it rip some of the polish off?
Edited on 3/13/2010 12:03 PM
Please see Charlest's post about this in this thread.
If the polish you applied has waxes, slip additives , or other friction modifying agents then yes the simple green may remove those ..
But a polish is not a coating that is sitting on the cover of the ball. A polish is bringing the actual surface to a high grit, high shine.. This is the physical structure of the cover.
Kind of like a car polish brings the paint to a high shine but the waxes in the polish create a slick surface and protect the finish.. There are two things doing two separate things.
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
Post by: Steven on March 13, 2010, 06:24:51 PM
Regardless, I'll address the following:
quote:
so what about the rejuvenator oven there? according to storm dont put there balls in 1 (i would hazard a guess and say that goes for Roto too).
so much for the cheap side cause its the recommended way.
All manufacturers have their take on what's best to de-oil. MoRich has this to say:
http://www.morichbowling.com/BowlingBalls/BowlingBall_Cleaning.htm
Also, Brunswick and Lane#1 are on record for recommending the Revivor/Rejuvenator ovens as the first choice for oil extraction. I think Ebonite and Storm don't recommend dry hear because there are too many morons who try to bake in their home cooking ovens, and they don't want to deal with all the possible warranty issues.
All I can say is that over time, I've successfully baked many balls from all the major manufacturers (Storm included) in the Revivor Oil Extraction Unit:
http://www.shop.innovativebowling.com/product.sc?categoryId=1&productId=411
In many cases, I did the oven method after trying a hot water bath and ALWAYS got additional oil out.
The bottom line is that these ovens are far more effective at extracting oil than hot water methods. You might want to ask why some of the all-stars who like to post here (letsbowl4money, CGsSuK, Joe Falco, etc.) didn't take the time to provide you with this information.
On the other hand, if you think about it, the answer is pretty clear.
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 13, 2010, 06:55:35 PM
quote:
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I made a mistake with this .. just letting you know so that it doesn't happen to you. I sprayed the ball with SIMPLE GREEN then put it in HOT WATER (straight from the faucet) .. the ball lost a lot of it's color. It was the AMF HEIST! Recently had the ball polished by a friend who has a spinner .. ball still is FANTASTIC just looks a little ridiculous!
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J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: Strider on March 14, 2010, 09:59:50 AM
quote:
If only you would post something based on FACT, for once, maybe people might try to take you seriously. Storm doesn''t recommend anything but hot water bath as there are some additives in their coverstocks that actually bake off in DRY heat. You checking in on us? No, you''re the little kid who is sent to bed while the grownups play cards and keeps sneaking down the steps to see what''s going on. For the last time. STEVIE, go to bed!
I don''t remember seeing this anywhere. Can you provide proof that Storm doesn''t approve of dry heat for this reason? Do they say anything one way or the other about a dishwasher? Common sense would tell you that if the additives bake off, it would do it whether there''s water or not.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton''s Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Edited on 3/14/2010 11:01 AM
Post by: jmattox on March 14, 2010, 10:32:50 AM
Post by: lenstanles703 on March 14, 2010, 11:11:40 AM
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Len
Post by: Juggernaut on March 14, 2010, 11:21:33 AM
I've been bowling since 1982 and have NEVER bought a pre manufactured cleaning product. I have always used either an alcohol based, or acetone based, home made cleaner.
I switched from acetone based to alcohol based shortly after I discovered that acetone actually altered the ball.
I use 50% simple green, 30% isopropyl alcohol ( the 91% type), and 20% windex to make it.
Works fine, cleans reasonably deeply, and never had a ball "die" from it, even though I have some balls I've had for YEARS.
I've also never had to have an oil extraction done. I do have an original Inferno that went through the dishwasher ( which brought it back to pristine performance), but that's the extent of it. Got a Track MUTANT from a guy once that actually was dead, but I brought it back to life with heat (left it covered with a dark towel in the car) and berrymans b-12 chemtool ( yeah yeah, I know, but it was dead and I had nothing to lose).
Moral is, get some dang cleaner and use it. Home made cleaner is better than no cleaner at all, and is plenty good enough for many of us to bypass manufacturers brand name cleaners altogether.
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Good transactions list in my profile
ILLEGITIMI, NON-CARBORUNDUM!
Post by: Strider on March 14, 2010, 03:58:33 PM
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton''s Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Edited on 3/14/2010 3:59 PM
Post by: Steven on March 14, 2010, 07:28:51 PM
quote:
Q: Will the Revivor harm the ball?
A: No. Eight years of field testing by over 1.000 pro shops as well as extensive testing from Innovative and independent non-bias companies proves it has NEVER harmed a ball.
As another wise poster on this site has said more than once, "reading is a skill". It's a skill that you clearly haven't mastered, if you've tried at all.
So slowly read the above Q&A. Innovative has put their professional reputation on the line with the Revivor product. There claims are true until you can prove otherwise. Good Luck.
Before you regurgitate the Storm memo, remember that companies have agendas. Ebonite/Columbia also doesn't recommend heat for oil extraction. I'm sure the fact that they sell their own compound to extract oil doesn't play into the picture.
If it's safe in hot tap water, it's safe in a specifically designed oil extraction oven. Heat draws the oil from the bowling balls. Forced air circulates the heat evenly. Electronic controller assures constant temperature. Balls continually rotate during the process. Sorbent pads collect the oil as the balls turn.
Regardless, this last week I put my Columbia Rival through a session in the Revivor oven. I wanted to use it for a USBC Open Pattern Tournament this weekend. It bleed for about 90 minutes before the extraction was finished. As for temperature, the cover was much cooler than after a typical hot afternoon of sitting in the car trunk.
The Rival reacted just fine. Despite the heavy pattern (double pass of oil), The ball achieved the heavy roll with controlled backend I expected -- just like when it was new. So much for the dry heat ruining the ball.
CRD, you've long been a lost cause, so I don't expect the truth and facts here to have any impact on you. This is more for others who might be looking to expand their understanding of options they might have.
Post by: Steven on March 14, 2010, 10:12:40 PM
quote:
The only person with an agenda on this site is you, Steven. You consistently come on here and try to pose as an expert on everything from the economy to bowling.
I lay out real world ball maintenance activities I conduct all the time. I describe different techniques, and based on real results, take a stand on what works, what doesn't, are where there are differences in effectiveness.
You find this offensive because of your own limitations. You're a bottom feeder, and you resent anyone who spends the energy to dig a little deeper to find answers.
You don't have a clue about different cleaning techniques, because you're too cheap and limited to try anything beyond your household cleaners. You don't know the first thing about Revivor/Rejuvenator oil extraction units, so you cling to an e-mail sent to someone else for your 'definitive' information.
What's laughable is that you couldn't even interpret the Storm message correctly. They state 'We don’t recommend using dry heat methods, especially ovens or otherwise because the temperatures often exceed safe parameters. The extraction units discussed certainly maintain safe parameters. Their designs take into account possible negative effects. That's why they work.
But you wouldn't know this because you're an ignorant tool. Your claim to fame is quoting what you want to believe others are saying instead of jumping in and trying things yourself. You have nothing to offer beyond what any moron can pull from the web.
You were a joke as CRD, and you've continued that legacy as letsbow4money. The day the sun rises in the West is when I'll see an original thought posted by you.
Post by: Rileybowler on March 15, 2010, 06:50:52 PM
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name
Post by: Steven on March 15, 2010, 07:35:55 PM
quote:
Oh, incoherent one. What don''t you understand about the above. They don''t recommend dry heat methods. What is the rejuvenator? Dry heat.
Let's see. Brunswick recommends it. Storm and Ebonite doesn't recommend it. For those who swear by soaking, some say to sand the ball down to 320 first, while others say it isn't necessary. The contradictions are endless depending on point of view and experience.
This all isn't unusual. Much of ball maintenance technology is as much an art as it is a science. The only way to sift through the confusion is to experiment and try different approaches. That means comparing the results from baking in an oil extraction unit vs. soaking in water. It means comparing a variety of different cleaners on different ball surfaces for effectiveness. It means experimenting to understand the differences between Abralon, Scotchbrite, Sandpaper, Tizact, and liquid sanding compounds for varying surface results.
The one constant that's indisputable is that you do none of the above. That means you don't have a friggin clue as to what you're talking about. You have the curiosity and learning desire of a drooling imbecile. For reasons that are impossible to understand, you seem happily trapped in stale world of ignorance that you show no desire of wanting to leave.
I'm not going to argue these points with you anymore in this thread. Enough for now.
Post by: qstick777 on March 16, 2010, 11:14:16 AM
I'll be damned if they didn't get nice and tacky. I could almost palm the ball - well, if my hands were bigger and I was manly enough to palm a 14-15lb ball!
Post by: Coolerman on March 16, 2010, 12:31:41 PM
is the best product for cleaning their balls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9Qv0nhh_0&feature=related
Post by: snowspike1 on March 16, 2010, 12:48:25 PM
where does the line start?
Post by: bitbytebit on March 19, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on March 19, 2010, 11:29:13 PM
quote:
I just tried Simple Green plus isopropyl alcohol for the first time this week, bought a 9.00 gallon of Simple Green from Lowes and a 2.00 quart of isopropyl alcohol from Wal-Mart. Mixed them with 1/2 Simple Green, and 1/2 isopropyl alcohol. This works really well, cleans better than my Storm Reacta Clean, it leaves the ball tacky and removes all track marks and ball return scuffs. So I'm sold, can't beat seeing the proof for yourself, and I've just started this method so totally unbiased and inexperienced at using Simple Green. I definitely like it, way better than spending 70.00 for a gallon of Storm Reacta Clean, I'm able now to focus on what I actually like doing, bowling instead of spending tons of money on cleaner.
From my own personal experience, almost anything cleans better than Storm Reacta Clean.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: cappy718 on March 19, 2010, 11:42:25 PM
Post by: lenstanles703 on March 20, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
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Len