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General Category => Coverstock Preparation => Topic started by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 11:14:25 AM

Title: to water or not to water
Post by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 11:14:25 AM
what's the purpose of using water when sanding? to save the pad you're using? or is it better than dry sanding.

I started working with the spinner in 2004 and I've always used a spray bottle with waters. lately, because I don't have a sink available, I dry sand all my stuff.

but is there a difference at all? I doubt there is, but you guys know  more than me.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: Gene J Kanak on March 18, 2015, 11:39:12 AM
I'm no expert on this either, but I would think wet sanding is preferred because it keeps the powdery residue (from the sanding process) from building up on the sandpaper or sanding pad. When that dust builds up, it provides something of a barrier between the true grit of the pad and the surface being sanded, which would keep the pad from cutting through to its full potential.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: JohnP on March 18, 2015, 11:58:41 AM
Sanding wet keeps you from breathing the dust, that's the main benefit I've found.  --  JohnP
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: BallReviews-Removed0385 on March 18, 2015, 12:32:50 PM

Water acts as a "lubricant" so the abrasives don't "cut" as much.  Our spinner has a water flow that I use (from a pump inside a bucket) and it's invaluable as far as I'm concerned.  It also helps clean up the sanding lines after cutting plug.  Just more options available because you can adjust the flow, or only use it when needed, or not at all. 

I also use water to dampen the towel while polishing to create more friction and shine better, in my opinion.  If I used a spray bottle like many of you do, it would get used a bunch.



Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: charlest on March 18, 2015, 01:09:31 PM
Sanding wet keeps you from breathing the dust, that's the main benefit I've found.  --  JohnP

***** +1,234, 568
You don't want to breathe resin or urethane or polyester or rubber dust!!!!!

It does act as a lubricant, as well, allowing a more even finish. Even when doing a hazing with an abrasive pad, I dampen it before hand rubbing.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: lefty50 on March 18, 2015, 01:19:51 PM
Please save your hate mail... I probably won't be jumping back into this thread, but although I hear the message, I've ALWAYS, 100%, all the time, forever, etc... seen a big difference between wet sanding and dry sanding. I've asked before "why"?... No good feedback in that area. It's been a consistent result though... Puzzle for the ages.....
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 01:49:09 PM
Inhaling the dust particles is a conern. When I last worked on the spinner, I had the fan on, but it prolly made it worse spreading particle in the air.

I'll have to go back to wet sanding just to avoid this. My Doberman is always next to me too when working in the garage. hate to see him sneeze hehehe
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: charlest on March 18, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Please save your hate mail... I probably won't be jumping back into this thread, but although I hear the message, I've ALWAYS, 100%, all the time, forever, etc... seen a big difference between wet sanding and dry sanding. I've asked before "why"?... No good feedback in that area. It's been a consistent result though... Puzzle for the ages.....

without water, you get closer to the grit specified on the pad, but yo ustill need to be careful about pressure and all that rot. Without water, the grit/abrasive will wear out quicker; so, for instance, a 4000 grit pad may last 1 -2 use, where with water it lasts 3 - 4 uses. Water is a lubricant;never forget that. As such, the girt applied with water is slightly, I repeat slightly finer than that specified. I mean water is not like using oil, which will really buffer the abrasive from the surface being changed.

Without water, you breathe in the resin and will get cancer.
Enjoy the water or the cancer! Your choice.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: charlest on March 18, 2015, 02:41:48 PM
Inhaling the dust particles is a conern. When I last worked on the spinner, I had the fan on, but it prolly made it worse spreading particle in the air.

I'll have to go back to wet sanding just to avoid this. My Doberman is always next to me too when working in the garage. hate to see him sneeze hehehe

and wear some kind of gloves every time you apply any liquid, polish, compound or chemical to your equipment!!!! Every single freaking time!!!!
Be macho and be dead.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 02:50:07 PM
I choose water hehehe...

3 to 4 uses for a pad?? which pad is that?  I use just siaair and I always have a new pad of each grit to compare to the ones I use. and I get double that..


Please save your hate mail... I probably won't be jumping back into this thread, but although I hear the message, I've ALWAYS, 100%, all the time, forever, etc... seen a big difference between wet sanding and dry sanding. I've asked before "why"?... No good feedback in that area. It's been a consistent result though... Puzzle for the ages.....

without water, you get closer to the grit specified on the pad, but yo ustill need to be careful about pressure and all that rot. Without water, the grit/abrasive will wear out quicker; so, for instance, a 4000 grit pad may last 1 -2 use, where with water it lasts 3 - 4 uses. Water is a lubricant;never forget that. As such, the girt applied with water is slightly, I repeat slightly finer than that specified. I mean water is not like using oil, which will really buffer the abrasive from the surface being changed.

Without water, you breathe in the resin and will get cancer.
Enjoy the water or the cancer! Your choice.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 02:56:18 PM
I always use gloves everytime I work on the spinner.

I might even start using my MSA toxic dust respirator that I use when I pull a Tim Allen and take the blower to the garage......

Inhaling the dust particles is a conern. When I last worked on the spinner, I had the fan on, but it prolly made it worse spreading particle in the air.

I'll have to go back to wet sanding just to avoid this. My Doberman is always next to me too when working in the garage. hate to see him sneeze hehehe

and wear some kind of gloves every time you apply any liquid, polish, compound or chemical to your equipment!!!! Every single freaking time!!!!
Be macho and be dead.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: charlest on March 18, 2015, 03:46:40 PM
I choose water hehehe...

3 to 4 uses for a pad?? which pad is that?  I use just siaair and I always have a new pad of each grit to compare to the ones I use. and I get double that..

The 4000 grit pad.

Quote
Please save your hate mail... I probably won't be jumping back into this thread, but although I hear the message, I've ALWAYS, 100%, all the time, forever, etc... seen a big difference between wet sanding and dry sanding. I've asked before "why"?... No good feedback in that area. It's been a consistent result though... Puzzle for the ages.....

without water, you get closer to the grit specified on the pad, but you still need to be careful about pressure and all that rot. Without water, the grit/abrasive will wear out quicker; so, for instance, a 4000 grit pad may last 1 -2 use, where with water it lasts 3 - 4 uses. Water is a lubricant;never forget that. As such, the girt applied with water is slightly, I repeat slightly finer than that specified. I mean water is not like using oil, which will really buffer the abrasive from the surface being changed.

Without water, you breathe in the resin and will get cancer.
Enjoy the water or the cancer! Your choice.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: Aloarjr810 on March 18, 2015, 04:03:51 PM
Wet vs Dry Sanding

(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.postimg.org%2Fxtxq4yhl3%2F1wetvsdry.jpg&hash=afb5633c77d7fdf8610e98f31fde30812ed7e59c)

This ball was sanded with the same grit, left-dry sanded, right-wet sanded.

Wet sanding produces a more sheen like finish, water acts as a lubricant to a point so the cutting isn't as aggressive.

Also wet sanding helps keep the dust and friction heat down, the water also helps reduce buildup of the cuttings in your pad/paper which let's them cut better and last longer.

Wet sanding is pretty much the standard when using a home spinner.

Dry sanding is a bit more aggressive and will give you a duller surface. But you get more friction which generates more heat and the pad can load up which can reduce the effectiveness of the cutting.



Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: xrayjay on March 18, 2015, 04:09:02 PM
^^^^^^

wow, I had fun throwing that ball...

Thanks for the pics....
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: D Pat on March 18, 2015, 04:17:39 PM
Hey addik, there are three main benefits to using water IMHO:

1. Smoother, more consistent coverstock finish/grit (less sand lines when using sandpaper, too)
2. Less dust particles in the air
3. Prolonged life of sandpaper/abralon/scotch brite due to reduced friction when using water

DP
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: milorafferty on March 18, 2015, 05:12:11 PM
I used to use a lot of water when sanding, but I don't anymore. I prefer the reaction of the dry sand process. It took me a while to find the best method for dry sanding, but now that I've got it down, I come closer to the box finish than I ever did with wet sanding.

The downsides of dry sanding:

1. Lot of dust. I wear gloves and a dust mask, but some probably still gets in.
2. Pads wear out more quickly. But I figure at about $2.60 a pad, screw it, I don't resurface that many balls anyway.

The upside of dry sanding:

1. As mentioned above, I like the reaction over a wet sanded ball at the same grit(s)
2. Dry sanding is MUCH faster. It takes about half the time as wet sanding for me.
3. I can see the results of each grit level more clearly, so I get closer to what I want.
4. Compound finishes are much easier to create than with wet sanding. I can make a 500 - 4000 finish almost perfect. I was never able to recreate that kind of surface with wet sanding.
5. I actually think I take less surface off the ball each time. I use less pressure and time than wet sanding seems to need, so I think I take a much thinner layer on each pass than when I was wet sanding.




Disclaimer; your results may vary.  ;D
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: okfoz on May 05, 2015, 04:08:40 PM
One thing I have noticed about wet sanding vs dry sanding is with dry sanding I am more likely to get that rogue deeper than normal scratch in the surface than when using water.  The water also seems to help wash away any impurities that I might have either accidentally gotten on my paper, or something that has been pulled up from the surface while I was sanding.    Also with Water, I can better see what I are doing, the dust from dry sanding can stick to the surface making it hard to see what I are sanding and the surface would look hazy from the excess sanding dust until I clean it.    I would never dry sand a bowling ball IMHO.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 05, 2015, 04:40:32 PM
I use a spray bottle with water and no sink.  I dont go heavy on the water just keep it moist not flooded.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: lefty50 on May 05, 2015, 04:49:07 PM
I think almost everyone except Milo missed the point. There's a clear and definite difference in reaction. Big time, no doubt.
Jeff, I love ya man, but I can't tie in dry sanding with problems and then go out and breathe normal city air with all its pollutants... Seriously? Just be careful....
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: Brickguy221 on May 05, 2015, 07:28:04 PM
I use water a bit on the heavy side. Pads last longer and it seems to give me the surface I want without overly deep sanding groves in the ball.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: leftybowler70 on May 05, 2015, 08:44:37 PM
I also use the Dry Sand method..... It's so much simpler to get the finish I look for with little hassle..... And the dust doesn't bother me as much as I a fan to circulate and air to breath easier....
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: bullred on May 06, 2015, 07:19:11 PM
When sanding dry, besides all the dust is the fact that with each revolution of the ball your sand paper is loading up and each succeeding revolution is with less grit.  Waters main mission is to keep sandpaper clean so grit remains about the same for awhile.   Even with water, grit will change pretty quick.
Title: Re: to water or not to water
Post by: charlest on May 06, 2015, 09:29:49 PM
I also use the Dry Sand method..... It's so much simpler to get the finish I look for with little hassle..... And the dust doesn't bother me as much as I a fan to circulate and air to breath easier....

and the dust blows into the air to linger there, until you breathe it in. Say hello to your oncologist for us.