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Author Topic: 2 inch pin to pap  (Read 6545 times)

bowlingdude01

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2 inch pin to pap
« on: September 12, 2021, 05:54:47 AM »
i was wondering if i were to use a 2 inch pin to pap would i be able to mimic urethane

thanks in advance

 

Strider

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2021, 07:46:49 AM »
Read most of this post: https://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/pro's-using-close-pin-to-papa/

I did a Brunswick Ringer about 1" pin to PAP.  It's somewhat close in that it's super smooth.  The motion is kind unique.  It basically scoots for 20 or so feet, then rolls the rest of the way.  I like the reaction, but wish I'd have chosen another ball.  Even though the Ringer wasn't considered a strong ball even when it was released, it still forces me to swing the ball more than I want.  Now if other people use a lot of urethane and there's a decent amount of carry down, that's where the ball shines.  I'm a little rev dominant, so if you're speed dominant, it might be exactly what you're looking for.

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2021, 08:02:30 AM »
Read most of this post: https://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/pro's-using-close-pin-to-papa/

I did a Brunswick Ringer about 1" pin to PAP.  It's somewhat close in that it's super smooth.  The motion is kind unique.  It basically scoots for 20 or so feet, then rolls the rest of the way.  I like the reaction, but wish I'd have chosen another ball.  Even though the Ringer wasn't considered a strong ball even when it was released, it still forces me to swing the ball more than I want.  Now if other people use a lot of urethane and there's a decent amount of carry down, that's where the ball shines.  I'm a little rev dominant, so if you're speed dominant, it might be exactly what you're looking for.

will do thank you strider

TWOHAND834

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2021, 01:43:16 PM »
i was wondering if i were to use a 2 inch pin to pap would i be able to mimic urethane

thanks in advance

While you do get a urethane-esque ball roll; there are things to consider.  1.  You still have to match up the cover to the amount of oil on the lane.  2.  The resin with a short pin layout is going to give you more continuation through the pins than a urethane will if you have the right match up.  3.  Urethane is best playing closer to the gutter because in order to get the urethane ball to go through the pins the right way; the ball needs to be coming from the outside part of the lane.  4.  Resin balls with short pin are more versatile meaning you dont have to be hugging the gutter for them to be effective.  I shot 825 playing straight up between 10-12 boards with a Track 300C one night during a summer league.

There are benefits to using both.  But I found in my experiences that I score better and can move around the lane more with a short pin layout.  Plus, even if you polish the cover to look like a marble; it still wont go sideways on the backend.  I always go with an entry level type ball and keep it at 4000 plus polish (current ball is a new Messenger).  It gets through the front part of the lane extremely well but so smooth on the backend.  It allows me to go straight through the front part of the lane without the risk of the ball being skid/snap.
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bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2021, 03:07:38 PM »
i was wondering if i were to use a 2 inch pin to pap would i be able to mimic urethane

thanks in advance

While you do get a urethane-esque ball roll; there are things to consider.  1.  You still have to match up the cover to the amount of oil on the lane.  2.  The resin with a short pin layout is going to give you more continuation through the pins than a urethane will if you have the right match up.  3.  Urethane is best playing closer to the gutter because in order to get the urethane ball to go through the pins the right way; the ball needs to be coming from the outside part of the lane.  4.  Resin balls with short pin are more versatile meaning you dont have to be hugging the gutter for them to be effective.  I shot 825 playing straight up between 10-12 boards with a Track 300C one night during a summer league.

There are benefits to using both.  But I found in my experiences that I score better and can move around the lane more with a short pin layout.  Plus, even if you polish the cover to look like a marble; it still wont go sideways on the backend.  I always go with an entry level type ball and keep it at 4000 plus polish (current ball is a new Messenger).  It gets through the front part of the lane extremely well but so smooth on the backend.  It allows me to go straight through the front part of the lane without the risk of the ball being skid/snap.

thanks twohand834  will take all that information into account i didnt even think about most of that i just cant make myself buy a urethane ball even tho i want the pearl urethane hammer but if i can mimc urethane with reactive resin i would rather do that

ignitebowling

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2021, 05:58:53 PM »
i was wondering if i were to use a 2 inch pin to pap would i be able to mimic urethane

thanks in advance

Are you a right handed bowler?

About what is your rev rate and ball speed?  (Do you have any video of you bowling)

What are you bowling on where you think urethane would help?
Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2021, 07:18:05 PM »
i am right handed high ball speed(trying to lower that) i would say i am still have rev rate i bowl on ths and i was just looking to try something new i think it was mo pinel u could mimic urethane the house i bowl at right now is playing dryer then normal like i i said just looking for something different i have a after dark pearl that is great there i just wanted a diffferent look that is it

justlane

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2021, 07:19:57 PM »
I, too, have had some success with a 2" pin ball.  I ALWAYS have one around.

Does it mimic urethane? No. But it's a viable option when you want control with better carry than urethane. 

If you compare the coverstocks only you'll see the difference.  Urethane takes forever to absorb lane conditioner, and even with the best shammy on the market, you're leaving oil on the cover to some degree.  This is why people's first game with urethane is almost always their highest score.  As the cover collects oil it reads the friction less effectively, and get ready to shoot corner pins.

It would help if you could use a good cleaner between games, but USBC, in their infinite wisdom (and after years of declaring "legal" and "illegal" cleaners for use during play) says that's a no no.

With reactive resin the cover can "refresh" itself more quickly by absorbing some of the oil, and combined with shammy use, the ball has clean surface that can "react" or respond to the friction more effectively and drive through the pin deck with less deflection, etc.

If you're Jesper Svensson and throw it 21mph with 600+ revs you can make urethane work, much to the dismay of everyone else on your pair, due to carry-down. But the average bowler with "human" skills will struggle with carry as the lanes transition and as your urethane collects oil on the cover.

Is there a place for urethane?  Yes, but I believe it's more limited than we want to believe.  On the typical house patterns with defined dryer area (outside) and clean backends a stable reaction (2"pin) reactive ball will increase your carry percentage and still allow enough control. 

Lane Carter

ignitebowling

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2021, 09:16:41 PM »
i am right handed high ball speed(trying to lower that) i would say i am still have rev rate i bowl on ths and i was just looking to try something new i think it was mo pinel u could mimic urethane the house i bowl at right now is playing dryer then normal like i i said just looking for something different i have a after dark pearl that is great there i just wanted a diffferent look that is it

1.5 - 2" pin on something like a Hammer Raw black solid,  Radical Counter Attack solid or whatever is comparable from your favorite ball company is a good choice.  Urethane for right-handers on THS typically all look the same with the bowler standing way too far left to get the ball through the heads and after a game or so are no longer hitting the pocket and leaving buckets and 2-8s etc.  If you're not left handed,  or a higher rev right-hander playing on flatter conditions urethane is not your friend.

With a shorter pin layout and light to medium surface you get a ball that revs up sooner and smoothes out its response to friction.  Great for playing straighter angles,  especially on house shots with flying backends.  Once you start moving left to open your angles the ball will flat 10 or worse all day. 
Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2021, 03:29:38 AM »
i am right handed high ball speed(trying to lower that) i would say i am still have rev rate i bowl on ths and i was just looking to try something new i think it was mo pinel u could mimic urethane the house i bowl at right now is playing dryer then normal like i i said just looking for something different i have a after dark pearl that is great there i just wanted a diffferent look that is it

1.5 - 2" pin on something like a Hammer Raw black solid,  Radical Counter Attack solid or whatever is comparable from your favorite ball company is a good choice.  Urethane for right-handers on THS typically all look the same with the bowler standing way too far left to get the ball through the heads and after a game or so are no longer hitting the pocket and leaving buckets and 2-8s etc.  If you're not left handed,  or a higher rev right-hander playing on flatter conditions urethane is not your friend.

With a shorter pin layout and light to medium surface you get a ball that revs up sooner and smoothes out its response to friction.  Great for playing straighter angles,  especially on house shots with flying backends.  Once you start moving left to open your angles the ball will flat 10 or worse all day.

thanks ignitebowling will definitely do this then buy urethane

TWOHAND834

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2021, 09:17:04 AM »
i am right handed high ball speed(trying to lower that) i would say i am still have rev rate i bowl on ths and i was just looking to try something new i think it was mo pinel u could mimic urethane the house i bowl at right now is playing dryer then normal like i i said just looking for something different i have a after dark pearl that is great there i just wanted a diffferent look that is it

1.5 - 2" pin on something like a Hammer Raw black solid,  Radical Counter Attack solid or whatever is comparable from your favorite ball company is a good choice.  Urethane for right-handers on THS typically all look the same with the bowler standing way too far left to get the ball through the heads and after a game or so are no longer hitting the pocket and leaving buckets and 2-8s etc.  If you're not left handed,  or a higher rev right-hander playing on flatter conditions urethane is not your friend.

With a shorter pin layout and light to medium surface you get a ball that revs up sooner and smoothes out its response to friction.  Great for playing straighter angles,  especially on house shots with flying backends.  Once you start moving left to open your angles the ball will flat 10 or worse all day.

thanks ignitebowling will definitely do this then buy urethane

Watch this video.  Gives you the best visual difference between short pin and urethane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nhjZLF6nU
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2021, 09:42:11 AM »
i am right handed high ball speed(trying to lower that) i would say i am still have rev rate i bowl on ths and i was just looking to try something new i think it was mo pinel u could mimic urethane the house i bowl at right now is playing dryer then normal like i i said just looking for something different i have a after dark pearl that is great there i just wanted a diffferent look that is it

1.5 - 2" pin on something like a Hammer Raw black solid,  Radical Counter Attack solid or whatever is comparable from your favorite ball company is a good choice.  Urethane for right-handers on THS typically all look the same with the bowler standing way too far left to get the ball through the heads and after a game or so are no longer hitting the pocket and leaving buckets and 2-8s etc.  If you're not left handed,  or a higher rev right-hander playing on flatter conditions urethane is not your friend.

With a shorter pin layout and light to medium surface you get a ball that revs up sooner and smoothes out its response to friction.  Great for playing straighter angles,  especially on house shots with flying backends.  Once you start moving left to open your angles the ball will flat 10 or worse all day.

thanks ignitebowling will definitely do this then buy urethane

Watch this video.  Gives you the best visual difference between short pin and urethane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nhjZLF6n
you are right you can definitely see the difference. the only reason i thought about this is right now the lanes i am bowling on the shot is playing much drier do the the fact that where i live(kansas) it is hot and for this time of year some what humid so i was looking for something that i could use first other than my after dark pearl dont get me wrong it works great i just i have to keep up with the transition and i am fine but when i get on a lane where everybody is playing outside of 10 the shot dries up even faster so i looking to try this type of layout i am going to think about it now
thanks TWOHAND834

bowling_rebel

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2021, 05:49:00 PM »
Maybe depending on how you roll the ball, and for what condition.
But the short answer is NO.
I have both (short pin and urethane) and they are nothing like each other.

Although some of the newer "urethane" balls are not urethane. Which may be confusing the situation. I have a collection of "urethane" balls. They are not the same. Pitch Black or Purple Hammer will dig in and hook about as much (just differently) than many reactive. I also have an old Natural, Fever Pitch, Fast Pitch which are all significantly weaker than any reactive. 

If someone wants urethane, buy urethane. If you want weak/control reactive, fine do the short pin to PAP.

I guess if someone is looking for a THS ball, then get the reactive. Urethane is for specific sport shot conditions, why anyone would get one for league baffles me. And I have a collection of them. I leave them at home for regular league night.

I would also guess that most people asking this question are looking for a control reactive ball. If that is what you want, then do the short pin to pap and you'll probably be happier than with a urethane.

bradl

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2021, 08:06:03 PM »
I, too, have had some success with a 2" pin ball.  I ALWAYS have one around.

Does it mimic urethane? No. But it's a viable option when you want control with better carry than urethane. 

If you compare the coverstocks only you'll see the difference.  Urethane takes forever to absorb lane conditioner, and even with the best shammy on the market, you're leaving oil on the cover to some degree.  This is why people's first game with urethane is almost always their highest score.  As the cover collects oil it reads the friction less effectively, and get ready to shoot corner pins.

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh at this. Actually not "at" this, but WITH this.

You just reminded me of my first real game with a Faball Blue Hammer, after picking it up after my youth league back in 1990. I was just coming off of an Ebonite Gyro.. the polished light blue one, 1/32nd sideweight, full conventional grip. Took both balls to my Junior Traveling Classic league the following day, where we were at a house at Peacekeeper Lanes at Offutt AFB...

Pulled out the Hammer and shot 248 out of the box, and this is with me carrying a 165 average at the most. Went 213-210 for the rest of the block. Immediately afterwards, I started to save the money to pick up the Blue Pearl Hammer a month later.

Dammit, how right you are with the bold!

BL.

bowlingdude01

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Re: 2 inch pin to pap
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2021, 08:32:37 AM »
i think i am going to try a 2 inch pin to pap first then if i want to start bowling tournaments i will buy a urethane but i must say urethane does really appeal to me just because i have never thrown urethane