win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Inverted Track  (Read 5726 times)

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Inverted Track
« on: September 15, 2005, 12:51:06 PM »
Any gurus out there want to share general layout suggestions for inverted track players?  I seem to especially struggle with strong layouts even on heavily oiled lanes because they expend so much energy early and I have so little tilt.  My axis is 5 3/8 1/2 down, with a pretty high rev rate and medium speed.
Logged
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

 

mrh57

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2005, 11:16:23 AM »
Remember with an inverted track mias bias position will look different then someone that doesn't have an inverted track.

Someone like yourself with an inverted track the mias bias looks weaker then it really is.

Try drilling a strong ball at 4 1/2x70degrees.  The mias bias should be around your thumb hole with this layout.

Edited on 9/16/2005 11:10 AM
Logged

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2005, 10:16:05 PM »
Sorry Precision, I don't really know the answer to tilt/rotation angle, but it seems as though the tilt would be pretty close to zero with an inverted track  My ball speed is 16-17 mph and my rev rate is 350-400.
Logged
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2005, 04:36:07 AM »
quote:
Sorry Precision, I don't really know the answer to tilt/rotation angle, but it seems as though the tilt would be pretty close to zero with an inverted track  My ball speed is 16-17 mph and my rev rate is 350-400.


FYI Nahhhhh. If your tilt were zero, you'd be throwing a full roller. Measure your track's diameter; from there Precision will be able to compute your tilt angle.
--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2005, 02:27:42 PM »
Ok...track diameter is 13.5 inches and ball speed is 16-17mph (average).
Logged
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

JohnP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5819
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2005, 05:41:49 PM »
If your track diameter really is 13.5", then your tilt is 0.  This means the ball is tracking the entire circumference of the ball.  Although unusual, with an inverted track this is possible without having a full roller.  Go to the buddiesproshop site (link below).  First, look at "Finding track diameter" to be sure you've done that correctly.  Then you can go to "Asymmetric layouts" to find the correlation chart between track diameter (even though the chart says track circumference - to be technical it's circumferential diameter) and tilt.  --  JohnP

Forgot the link:

https://www.buddiesproshop.com/Default.asp?

Edited on 9/17/2005 5:36 PM
Logged

mrh57

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2005, 11:36:47 PM »
Whoever has been drilling his equipment probably wasn't using his PAP for the layouts or decided drilling 2 1/2 to 4 1/2 inch pins with strong mb placement.   He has very little axis tilt(which he stated at first and you can tell by what he described from the reaction he gets).  Get a strong reactive ball and drill it at 4 1/2 by 70 degrees.  This layout will work for you on heavy oil.  

He probably likes pins between 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 inches and mias bias placements between 50 to 110 degrees on most bowling balls.  Use stronger mb placements on pins that are further from your PAP.
Logged

Mike Austin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2057
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2005, 09:00:36 AM »
I know Morpheus.  He is a former PBA member, Regional Champion, throws it like butter!!!  Super solid at the line, watching him is like music to your eyes!!!  Dave has sweet game.

That said, he has medium ball speed, and put the ball down on the lane, you can't hear it hit the lane, ever!!  Watching him, you would swear he is up the back of it, but has this slight little twitch in his hand motion, that inverts his track, but it keeps it off the thumb hole.

I'm positive that he is going to a great ball driller.  Morpheus is top notch.  Haven't seen him in a couple years, but his probably using Del Ballard Jr or Ron Williams.  It is not the driller, I can remember him having ball issues before resin, resin killed him, but glad to see that he is still playing.

Wouldn't his axis tilt be slightly below horizontal?  I would think his axis rotation would be around 10-15 degrees.  I would think he would need the pin up fairly high to keep it off the finger holes, or at least close to the finger holes.

Something over the ring, which would put it at about 5 1/4 from the PAP and MB around 45 degrees, small hole if possible.

I just woke up, so this could be foggy........................


--------------------
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
Drilling and Tech Advice BirdDogbowling.com

Check out bowlingballauctions.com !!!
A bowling alternative to Ebay, now open !!!

Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!

"So Many Balls, only ONE drill press!!"
Logged
Mike Austin's Bowling Dynamix Pro Shops
Inside Emerald Bowl
Inside Tomball Bowl
Track Pro Staff Member
Vise Grips Staff Member

kingpin268

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1680
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2005, 09:13:50 AM »
Can anyone describe a inverted track to me?
--------------------
Bully Your Competition
Logged

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2005, 10:13:18 AM »
quote:
Can anyone describe a inverted track to me?
--------------------
Bully Your Competition


The bowler's track is closer to the middle finger hole than to the thumb hole. It can be a little closer or a lot closer. It used to be a good track for a cranker; nowadays, many tweeners have that track. It's not good or bad, in and of itself; it just is. You have to drill the ball with consideration of where the bowler's PAP is and what his axis tilt, rotation angle and ball speed are, AS ALWAYS.
--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

kingpin268

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1680
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2005, 10:22:52 AM »
Thanks Charlest. That clears it up.
--------------------
Bully Your Competition
Logged

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2005, 03:00:56 PM »
I measured the diameter on a very mild core that had a very defined track and doesn't flare much and the diameter is 12" rather than 13.5" as I stated earlier.  I guess what I'm trying to get at is that a 5" pin reacts drastically different when drilled below the ring finger than a 5" pin above and to the right of the ring which puts it in my track when the ball flares.  I understand it changes the location of the bow tie, but should a 5" pin react the same regardless of location with respect to the grip on a symetrical core?

Thanks for the kind words Mike and you're right, reactives pretty much ended my desire to bowl.  I don't bowl much these days, but it seems as though the lane oils have finally caught up with the ball technology so I almost look like I can beat somebody again.  The more balls I drill, the more I am convinced that I should be using higher pin locations rather than under the ring finger and on the grip line (above or below).  Lower pin layouts seem to stand up pretty quick and quit on the back which leads me to believe that I could use stronger layouts if I use higher pin locations. But as stated earlier by Precision, the pin location should not make any difference because it's the same distance from the PAP, but resides in a different location with respect to the grip.
Logged
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

JohnP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5819
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2005, 03:32:03 PM »
morpheus -- My track is similar to yours, only 1/4" down instead of 1/2".  I also have problems with resin balls over reacting.  Consider trying a Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle, a urethane ball with a dynamic core.  The reaction is toned down from resin, but the core still gives it great hitting power.  I don't know if Visionary is on the PBA approved list, though.  --  JohnP
Logged

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Inverted Track
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2005, 09:29:55 PM »
Thanks for your expert analysis Precision.  Given what you've said, I fail to understand why I prefer low RG balls when my release generates so much early reaction.  My favorite reactives have been the Vortex II, Rotogrip RS-X, and Zone Classic all of which are under 2.50 with mid to high differentials.  You would think that higher RG low differentials would suit my game better, but they rarely work well for me.
Logged
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor
Pages: [1]
« previous next »