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Author Topic: Layout doesn't make sense  (Read 6465 times)

mrwizerd

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Layout doesn't make sense
« on: July 10, 2015, 01:06:26 PM »
Hopefully some of you more enlightened people can help me out and I can finally understand a layout that is trying to be explained to me.

For a right-handed layout you put a piece of tape at roughly the 9 o'clock position (left side of the ball).  When the ball is rolled the tape should not move.  If located in the correct spot that is where your balance hole goes.  If the tape moves then adjust its location and roll the ball again, repeat until the tape doesn't move.

I have asked and been told that a persons track will not roll over the balance hole because it is parallel with the lane.

The purpose of this layout is to allow for some wiggle room for people that have slightly inconsistent releases.

Does this make sense to anyone?  I might give it a shot if I can understand it.
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Impending Doom

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 01:15:58 PM »
First, this isn't a layout, it's an extra hole placement technique. Second, you can flare over it if the ball flares that much and if you have enough hand.
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Nails

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 02:00:43 PM »
Are you sure you don't mean 3 o'clock - on the right side of the ball? For most people that would be somewhat close to the PAP. It's extremely rare for a right hander to have a balance hole on the left side of the ball.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 02:18:14 PM »
 ... When the ball is rolled the tape should not move. ...

That would be the PAP, wouldn't it?  That was how I remember being told how to verify one's PAP.  Not every balance hole would go there if it would result in exceeding the static limits or give an undesired effect.

And as Nails stated, a RH bowler's PAP should be on the right side of the ball.

Now, when a RH releases a ball onto the lane, if the tape was placed on the PAP, it would appear to be on the left quadrant of the ball after it leaves the hand and is going down the lane.  If it is on the PAP it should be pretty stable.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 02:20:28 PM by MI 2 AZ »
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J_w73

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 02:53:51 PM »
If the ball flares then the tape is going to move.  What you are describing is the negative axis point.  It will be hard to see unless you release the ball end over end and someone is a lane or two over on the right side.
Which ball are you talking about?  If it is a plastic ball you may be correct in that you won't roll over the hole. If the ball flares then there is a chance you are going to roll over the hole.  Where is the pin currently located?  A pic of the ball you are thinking of doing this on may help.

Please confirm which side you are putting the tape.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 03:34:57 PM by J_w73 »
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milorafferty

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 03:16:39 PM »
Quote from: Nails on July 10, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
Are you sure you don't mean 3 o'clock - on the right side of the ball? For most people that would be somewhat close to the PAP. It's extremely rare for a right hander to have a balance hole on the left side of the ball.

I think he is looking at the ball as it goes down the lane. For a right hand bowler, that would make it on the left side of the ball.
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J_w73

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 03:30:46 PM »
Quote from: milorafferty on July 10, 2015, 03:16:39 PM
Quote from: Nails on July 10, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
Are you sure you don't mean 3 o'clock - on the right side of the ball? For most people that would be somewhat close to the PAP. It's extremely rare for a right hander to have a balance hole on the left side of the ball.

I think he is looking at the ball as it goes down the lane. For a right hand bowler, that would make it on the left side of the ball.
you are probably correct..
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mrwizerd

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 04:48:38 PM »
To answer some of the questions mentioned from comments:

During the conversation I asked him if he was talking about the PAP and he stated no.  I also asked for a picture of the layout and they couldn't provide one.  I verified that the balance hole goes at the 9 o'clock position on the ball (left side of the ball) and they said yes (causing my confusion).  I don't know if its miscommunication from communicating via a messenger program or its a test layout and very unique and tough to describe.  Its possible that he is talking about PAP, but doesn't understand the terminology and is using the wrong words to explain it to me.

I am thinking this conversation needs to be accomplished in person and over a bowling ball with a grease pencil, but that won't happen since I live in Omaha and he's in Seattle.  At this point I don't see trying it out.

Thank you everyone for all of the inputs.
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BradleyInIrving

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 05:40:25 PM »
There truly is no reason to put tape on the left side of the ball for a "layout" in question... Where is the pin/mb going to be from PaP?  That's the only questions you need answered :)
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kidlost2000

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 08:36:52 PM »
Quote from: mrwizerd on July 10, 2015, 04:48:38 PM
To answer some of the questions mentioned from comments:

During the conversation I asked him if he was talking about the PAP and he stated no.  I also asked for a picture of the layout and they couldn't provide one.  I verified that the balance hole goes at the 9 o'clock position on the ball (left side of the ball) and they said yes (causing my confusion).  I don't know if its miscommunication from communicating via a messenger program or its a test layout and very unique and tough to describe.  Its possible that he is talking about PAP, but doesn't understand the terminology and is using the wrong words to explain it to me.

I am thinking this conversation needs to be accomplished in person and over a bowling ball with a grease pencil, but that won't happen since I live in Omaha and he's in Seattle.  At this point I don't see trying it out.

Thank you everyone for all of the inputs.


very vague stuff. This isn't a layout as mentioned but an x-hole location and since then pin to pap distance and or location isn't discussed it could be as an option for a reaction out of an already drilled ball but I can think of better options that are flare safe vs this possible location.

The only way it may axis out on the tape on that side of the ball is if you started at your pap and went 13.5" around to the other side and marked it but the ball will likely have plenty of flare rings there.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 07:13:14 AM »
 I WOULD NOT RECCOMEND IT.

  I'm almost 55, and used to experiment with lots of different drillings. Much of what I learned has become basically obsolete, but I don't think this one has.

 I once drilled a ball with so much negative weight, that I had to end up putting a weight hole on the NAP (negative axis point) to get it back to a "normal" static weight. The ball never did act right, and had to really "hit up" on it at the release to get any continuation on it. Other than that, it was a flat tenpin machine!

 The ONLY way to get a weight hole to appear to remain stationary throughout the balls journey down the lane, is to have a ball with ABSOLUTELY ZERO FLARE, which is a hard thing to do.  Even older, two piece technology wanted to flare a little, and I even had an old white dot or two (back in the day) that wanted to flare a bit.

 It is possible though, but if you got a ball to roll that stably, I really don't think you would want to put an extra hole on the NAP. There probably wouldn't be any use for the extra hole at that point, other than trying to create some type of imbalance that should be creatable by some "ordinary" means of drilling techniques.

 Unless I got full documentation of it, and graphics along with it that helped explain the purpose of it, I would stay away from it.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 12:24:18 PM »
Something about this almost sounds like Phoenix ball balancing Axis balance, where they drill all the guts of a ball so it virtually never flares.

Then punch the balance hole right on the pap that doesn't move anymore.


"In a dynamically balanced bowling ball, the axis of roll migrates during the ball's roll, but the PAP remains the same point on the ball, Watch as this ball with an asymmetric core displays a consistent trajectory and keeps the same PAP during all three phases of the trajectory."
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kidlost2000

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Re: Layout doesn't make sense
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 01:47:39 PM »
Still isn't on the negative side of the ball. Listening to that guy layout a ball causes aneurysms
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