BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: kidlost2000 on May 26, 2013, 08:25:48 AM
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Got a chance to test the Crux hole on a Brunswick Evil Siege. Wasn't able to get before and after footage as I had hoped due to limited proshop hours. However the results so far have been good.
The Evil Siege wasn't a great ball for me. It was an okay ball at best. Tried some surface adjustments but just not anything that stood out. After testing the Crux hole on this ball I was impressed with the increased down lane reaction the ball had. It was what I originally expected when drilling the Evil Siege has a compliment to the Siege.
I have some more balls with low games that I would like to test as well over the summer. The goal is for before and after footage on the same lane in real time. Not shooting before footage driving home and coming back to shoot after footage.
For the first step in this process I am pleased. Hopefully more test will yield similar or greater results.
http://youtu.be/KrReZOPYdt8
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2 statements kid,
1.) wouldn't you be able to do a Motion hole and get the same result? Barring top weight, that hole and layout in a short pinned ball would give the same result, correct?
2.) I would really like to see you plant that right toe through the wood of the lane to keep you from falling off the shot. I think it would help a boatload. Just my observation.
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Yes the motion hole would work as well. Motion hole has flare problems to watch out for.
This Crux hole increases the ball dynamics when on the center span as much as a p3 hole from all the results I've seen using the blueprint software. It does have a bigger effect on the int. diff then a p3 hole.
When the hole is lowered closer to the the thumb the effects are as strong as a p4 hole at that point. Because like a p4 hole it is near the thumb and is taking a large chunk out of the core. It still has a bigger effect on the int. diff. and diff in many cases more then a p4 hole.
When I first posted about this on bowlingchat it was prior to the release info from Mo on the Motion hole. It was mentioned to me by another member on there who was assisting Im guessing with the Motion hole data. I can across this by accident when testing x-hole locations to fine tune some layouts I consistently use.
It is just another option that can be had for adding a weight hole to a bowlingball when your limited on option because of a shorter pin. Taking weight from the center of the span or an inch down doesn't shift much weight because of how close it is to the center of your span.
The hole on the center of the span can be felt when holding the bowling ball. When you move the hole down the hole can no longer be felt.
It is my first time out bowling in 4 weeks and appears my foot is a little further left then it should from my body on a few shots causing me to hop to catch balance. This was shot during my first game of bowling about 4 frames in. The Strike King video that is going to follow gets better after warming up. Looks like rust and timing a little off in the beginning. With me not bowling this time of year there will be issues to work on before league starts back. I hope playing lots of golf will help.
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Could you provide a link or some more info on this Cru(X) hole? Thanks.
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After having watched the video, this is something I have seen before years ago. I remember a driller here in my area that had a Timberwolf with the same weight hole. When I asked him what the deal was, he said it was to get top weight out and add "bottom weight" which will help the ball get around the corner better. The irony, was that he was the only person I ever saw with a weight hole in the center of his grip.
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Could you provide a link or some more info on this Cru(X) hole? Thanks.
Just PM me on what you'd like to know and I will see what I can do.
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After having watched the video, this is something I have seen before years ago. I remember a driller here in my area that had a Timberwolf with the same weight hole. When I asked him what the deal was, he said it was to get top weight out and add "bottom weight" which will help the ball get around the corner better. The irony, was that he was the only person I ever saw with a weight hole in the center of his grip.
Ive never seen it used before but I wouldn't be surprised when it comes to x-hole locations. Especially if you had a ball with excess top weight like an x-out with 5 ozs top weight.
It wasn't till the bp software they you can see the effects it has when taken out of the side of the ball. (pin even or above the fingers) Pin down drilling it increases the int diff still but not as much of an effect on the diff.
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Several years ago, Doug Kent used a ball in the step ladder final on TV with a hole in the palm. I don't remember for sure, but I think he won.
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Do you remember which ball or tournament? Would be worth seeing.
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Do you remember which ball or tournament? Would be worth seeing.
TPC Warrrior...
http://youtu.be/Xwpp-ai5N5U (http://youtu.be/Xwpp-ai5N5U)
I believe what they were trying to accomplish with that ball and core was to drill the guts/flare potential out of the ball... very low scoring tournament if I recall.
http://www.ballreviews.com/track/okneed-help-t97088.0.html;msg345431#msg345431 (http://www.ballreviews.com/track/okneed-help-t97088.0.html;msg345431#msg345431)
http://www.ballreviews.com/drilling-layouts/balance-hole-in-palm-t232557.0.html;msg1103549#msg1103549 (http://www.ballreviews.com/drilling-layouts/balance-hole-in-palm-t232557.0.html;msg1103549#msg1103549)
I think the mass bias on that ball was in or near his track as well...
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J_Mac beat me to the punch. ;) Tournament was the 2002 Cambridge Credit Classic. Doug actually finished 3rd.
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J_Mac beat me to the punch. ;) Tournament was the 2002 Cambridge Credit Classic. Doug actually finished 3rd.
This topic was being kicked around in the shop a few weeks ago so it was fresh on my mind.
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Very cool. If the pin is below the fingers the crux hole increases the int diff but lowers the diff. I can't tell where the pin or mb is on the TPC is but im on my phone which doesn't help. The hole appears to be less then an inch in diameter.
I can say for sure that when the pin is even or above the fingers the Crux hole will be taking out a lot of core from almost any bowling just like the thumb hole.
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I am fairly sure I see the MB pin well below and left of his thumb, low enough that I would think the pin would have to be in one of the finger holes. Would fit with the idea that they were trying to reduce flare potential.
Too bad EBI doesn't have some of these classic cores in BluePrint. I'm thinking the Propeller core was a slightly different animal compared to the modern core designs.
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I will see if I can find anything further watching it from home.
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After watching it on the computer the mb is pretty far left of his thumb. Im guessing the pin is in either the left or right finger. The x-hole looks like it is in the 3/4" range. With the pin where it is it would reduce the diff, but still increase the int diff some.
As an example I looked back at some saved screen shots with the bp software. Using the Outburst.
Undrilled
Int diff .003 Diff .043
Drilled pin below ring finger
Int diff .011 Diff .040
X-hole drilled on center grip 1" x 3.50"
Int diff .014 Diff .033
As an example the other way. Moving the pin just above the ring finger from the previous post. (a total of 1" from the previous example to barely above the ring finger)
Same Outburst undrilled
Int diff .003 Diff .043
Drilled pin moved up .(just above the ring finger)
Int Diff .012 Diff .043
Crux Hole 1" x 3.50"
Int Diff .021 Diff .049
Crux Hole Shifted down .75" from grip center, 1" x 3.50"
Int Diff .023 Diff .053
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This is all very interesting. I can see where the Crux hole would work good on some balls but not so good on others. Same for the motion hole. I've heard a few bowlers mention that when they added a motion hole it enhanced the ball's reaction, where others said it killed it. Exotic layouts have been around forever. Some work good, some don't. Most are tailored for a specific ball and lane condition. I think with the thousands of core and cover combos available today, exotic layouts are not needed as much. You can get as many hook and shape combinations as you want right out of the box.
Who wants to spent $200 for a ball and find out the exotic layout didn't do what they thought or made it roll like a biscuit?
Of coarse I realize the purpose of this post was not intended for the masses. It was more of a demonstration. Still, it want be long before guys come in the pro-shop wanting a crux hole in their ball with no clue why other than it looked good on a Youtube video.
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Very true. I wouldn't consider it an exotic layout by any means.
It is an option. When you drill a ball with a shorter pin (2-3") pin above or even with the fingers (very common layout) and aren't happy with it, even after cover adjustments at that point what are you options for a flare increasing x-hole?
For most bowlers the cg is probably just above their center grip line and a p2 p3 or p4 option isn't likely.
This falls as another option at that point for someone/proshop to use. Another tool to have in case the option is ever needed. It works on asymmetric or symmetric core bowling balls and in many cases will not change the drill angle of the drilled ball.
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It's an option.
Here's the thing, USBC says you can have 6 holes in the ball. One for each finger plus a static weight hole. USBC also states you don't have to use each hole to throw the ball. It just has to be capable of being used. So technically, you can also drill a pinky and index hole to adjust weights. You can also drill all of these holes 8" deep if you want. Another option, USBC limits the size of the weight hole to 1-1/4", but not the size of the gripping holes. You could drill the thumb 1-1/2" and 8" deep. Someone who throws it without a thumb or with two hands would benefit from this. The weight hole cannot intersect the gripping holes, but gripping holes can intersect and/or cross each other. As long as all the static weights meet USBC criteria, you're good.
It would be interesting to play around with the blueprint software and see where that takes you.
I say all that to say this: If you drill a ball with a standard label drilling as you described above and it doesn't roll good even after multiple surface changes.... I don't see putting a pot hole in the middle of the grip being a viable option to a pro-shop. For a VERY select few...maybe.
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Does anyone remember the Anti-Mass Bias cores Visionary had a few years back? Any speculation on what the Cru(X) and MOtion Holes would do to the core numbers and ball reaction? The Immortal Pearl had a ridiculous starting diff of .078, makes me wonder if it could have got 1.00something and what that shape on the lanes would be like. My guess, almost unusable, but it is funny to see just how far things can go.
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What is label? Just because the actual ball label is in the palm doesn't mean the pin would be any where close to the same if the ball had a 1" pin vs a ball with a 4" pin. Very different layouts and possible different reactions. 1" pin is likely below the fingers, 3-4 pin even with or well above the fingers.
The bp software didn't give the options listed at the time I used it but may have changed. You got 2 fingers, a thumb and a x-hole. Im also not sure if it let the x-hole go past 5" Once you go so far then you become counter product on what you remove. It would be nice to see it through the software.
In terms of only a select few I'm not so sure. A p1 x-hole and others lessen the diff of a bowling ball causing it to flare less. No matter how you throw the ball it will have less flare. That is going to reduce the balls reaction.
A p3 and p4 x-hole, plus others such as the Motion hole or adding a x-hole 2-3" down your val all increase the bowling balls int diff and diff. More flare, more fresh oil and possibly more hook. Doesn't matter how you throw it, more flare gives the chance for more hook, and a different ball shape depending on the location.
Location and size does have an effect on the core, flare, and ball reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJSmtr75Ts
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Does anyone remember the Anti-Mass Bias cores Visionary had a few years back? Any speculation on what the Cru(X) and MOtion Holes would do to the core numbers and ball reaction? The Immortal Pearl had a ridiculous starting diff of .078, makes me wonder if it could have got 1.00something and what that shape on the lanes would be like. My guess, almost unusable, but it is funny to see just how far things can go.
Not sure the int diff, but both x-holes would increase the diff(which is already high) along with the int diff. The Motion hole being located on the backside of the ball may be a bit dangerous because your chances of flaring the x-hole for many medium to higher rev players is probably high. With the Crux hole or a p4 hole depending on how you throw the ball with that much flare could catch the thumb, or clip the fingers.
As far as the anti mb it is similar to when EBI first started marking them on bowling balls. EBI had it marked mb/pin/ then cg. The mb on the drill sheet suggested keeping it above the fingers. That hasn't changed. You can take any asymmetric ball and draw a line from the mb through the pin to the other side to mark its anti mb. The same drilling rules apply.
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Gosh it's been a while since I've seen something about how Ebonite used to mark their "Bomb" marker. That was a rather interesting concept. Have you toyed around with BluePrint to see if it's possible for someone to hit the gripping holes with the back flare rings? I've thrown a few balls with what would have been a 3 1/2 inch pin with a void hole inside my VAL, and I actually rolled completely over the void hole in the back part of the lane. Was pretty funny to see a ball go through the axis migration, look like its about to hook, then just bail out completely lol. Thankfully all of those pieces of equipment belonged to someone else.
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Ive not had that issue when playing with the software but only had it a limited time. Depending on the bowling style, the ball, and the amount of flare you will always have issues of flaring over something. (thumb, finger, x-hole) depending on your style and the ball, and sometimes the condition. It is best to check the oil rings prior to adding a flare increasing x-hole would be my suggestion.