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Author Topic: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap  (Read 3749 times)

waterboy276

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Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« on: June 05, 2017, 12:53:55 PM »
I have a 2" pin to pap GB2 that I really like the motion of but I want a little more core.  I want to use a similar layout on an asym, but am a little confused on what this will do to my ball reaction.  From what I've been able to read, short pins retain tilt on asym balls (where on sym balls it burns tilt off faster) so if I put the same layout on say a legion solid I should in theory not get the same general shape.  Instead I'm supposed to use a 5.5+ pin to pap if I'm looking for a early round shape out of an asym piece?  I have a hard time wrapping my head around this because every ball is asymmetrical once there are holes in it, so the intermediate dif is having that big of an effect?   Does anyone have experience with short pin to pap layouts on asym pieces they would be willing to share?
Current 'go-to's: 
- Legion Solid 60 x 4.5 x 75
- Inception Pearl 60 x 5.25 x 75
- Legion Solid 45 x 4.5 x 30

 

ignitebowling

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 02:19:06 PM »
More core?
Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

2handedrook12

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 04:00:04 PM »
Most people that I know use a short pin to PAP on asymmetrics use a big drill angle to firther enchance the idea. I believe the dual angle theory says if you go under 2.25, it will reduce flare. Lowering the flare to that degree will more than likely provide what you're looking to accomplish for an asymmetric.

With that being said, I have a few questions. Have you considered drilling a GB2 with a stronger layout? Why not drill something like a Scandal since it is a stronger core? Any asymmetric you choose will more than likely force you to use a stronger cover anyways.
Main Rotation: No Rules Pearl, Torrent, Mission, Honey Badger, Ink.
Soon: GB2
Interests: GB3 Pearl, Badger/Hy-Road

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2017, 04:20:17 PM »
I have a 2" pin on a Roto Grip Theory. the PSA is just under my thumb. It is a condition specific type of ball for me. It does spool up and rolls very well, but often doesn't have enough pop on the back of the pattern to carry very well. It was terrible with the factory finish, so I eventually shined it, then knocked off the shine with a 4000 pad and it came to life. Normally, if I have to throw it away from the pocket more than a couple boards, it goes back in the bag. When this ball gives me a look, however, I am usually the only one in the house with that look, and I can kill it until forced to move away from the shot. It is good on short patterns and fresh conditions on higher friction lane panels. I used it to start team this year at nationals in Vegas.

I have a Devour with a 2" pin also, and it can be good on flatter patterns, but it is more angular off the spot than my Theory, so it needs a bit longer pattern to work for me, and has been very hit or miss.

My PAP is 5" over, 1/2" up, am speed matched and my rev rate runs between 300 & 325. 


cheech

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 06:07:53 PM »
I have a hard time wrapping my head around this because every ball is asymmetrical once there are holes in it, so the intermediate dif is having that big of an effect?   Does anyone have experience with short pin to pap layouts on asym pieces they would be willing to share?

yes its true all drilled balls are asymetrical but MOST of the time the int diff added to a symetrical core during drilling is negligible to core dynamics and ball reaction....the ball will still behave like a symmetric. int diff less than .008 (predrilling) should be treated like a symmetrical core. thats why for the track balls like the 505 were treated like symmetrics. they technically had .005 of int differential but thats not enough to be treated like an asymmetric

LuckyLefty

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 10:47:18 AM »
Luke Morningwood,

Great name!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Luke Morningwood

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 10:54:55 AM »
Luke Morningwood,

Great name!

Regards,

Luckylefty
Thanks.  I'm thinking of opening a chain of hotels.  ;D

Impending Doom

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 12:20:09 PM »
I would totally stay at Morningwood Suites. Not with the kids, though.
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Luke Morningwood

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 12:30:35 PM »
Still working on the marketing and verbiage.

MORNINGWOOD INN AND SUITES
"Get up every morning with us"
 -or-
"We make it easy to get up in the morning"
-or-
"After a good nights sleep, wake up with Morningwood"
-or-
Stay with us, we can help you rise and shine"


waterboy276

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 12:38:58 PM »
Ignite:

By more core I'm meaning stronger mass properties so there is less sensitivity to release variations.  That's my thought at least.  On top of practicing to get my release more consistent.
Right now my problem is that in situations where I need to focus on keeping my speed up I tend to be inconsistent at the bottom of the swing.   Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree thinking a stronger core would help?

2handed:

I have considered a stronger drilling.  I have an IQ tour with a 3.5" pin.  I do get a very similar shape although I wish the cover were a bit stronger.  I'm actually going to try throwing it tonight in a summer sport shot league with more surface and see if that helps. My GB2 is 70x2x40, the tour is 65x3.5x35.  The GB2 has a small hole, the tour has no hole.  I've considered drilling a scandal or similar as well (DDT, Phase 2, Phenom, Haywire were a few I considered).  I think its a good option, but was still curious to know more on possibly using an asym.

Morningwood:

I'd take some morningwood inn and suites merch.  How about "morningwood inn and suites, we'll be up 5 minutes before you" lol
Current 'go-to's: 
- Legion Solid 60 x 4.5 x 75
- Inception Pearl 60 x 5.25 x 75
- Legion Solid 45 x 4.5 x 30

ignitebowling

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 02:28:00 PM »
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:Trackflarechart.JPG

Will be low flaring for either ball. Asymmetrics burn off energy faster. Asymmetric core balls tend to be less forgiving. Most manufacturers now keep the int. diff.  much lower then they used just a few years back. More isn't always more.
Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

Dave81644

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2017, 07:37:10 AM »
go with a 2" pin in a sideswipe solid, it will be a step up form the GB2
or even the Impulse solid, Its a step up from the Sideswipe Solid IMO

2handedrook12

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2017, 10:53:17 AM »
I'm sure the Sideswipe Solid would be really good for you. Howevwr, since you mentioned the IQ Tour scenario, it sounds like a DDT would fit the bill really well.
Main Rotation: No Rules Pearl, Torrent, Mission, Honey Badger, Ink.
Soon: GB2
Interests: GB3 Pearl, Badger/Hy-Road

waterboy276

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 12:18:18 PM »
I had considered the impulse solid, I'd have to say if I'm punching another strong solid sym though that the DDT is top of my list at the moment.  I have a delirium shock I could plug and re-drill too if I wanted to go that route.  Honestly though I'm not in a terrible hurry, just looking to learn :)  I appreciate the input
Current 'go-to's: 
- Legion Solid 60 x 4.5 x 75
- Inception Pearl 60 x 5.25 x 75
- Legion Solid 45 x 4.5 x 30

Dave81644

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Re: Drilling an asym with a ~2" pin to pap
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2017, 06:43:33 PM »
I had a great motion at Nationals minors with my Impulse solid
Super predictable.
Been watching xtra frame last few weeks and I have seen multiple staffers using it.
I would suspect that this a close replacement for the Legion solid although my Impulse is earlier than my Legion
I haven't had enough volume in my summer league to use it much and/or I have other toys I'm playing with at the moment.
But definitely a keeper in my bag.