BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: Smokey469 on September 30, 2008, 01:19:47 AM

Title: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Smokey469 on September 30, 2008, 01:19:47 AM
There's a guy on my Friday night league that needs some advise.  He's a no-thumer and will not even entertain the thought of changing, believe me I've tried.  Problem is like many he struggles to keep the ball on the lane.  Over the summer he bought a new Cherry Vibe, and had it drilled pin over ring, he loved it at first(on oil) but now the shot is drier and he can't use it.  I was thinking of recommending he get it drilled pin up over the bridge, but the ball only has about a 2.5" pin, so I don't believe that will make enough of a difference from what he's got on it now.  So what do you guys think about a pin-axis drilling, or maybe rico?  Would these even work for him?  Any help is appreciated...
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Billy Ray on September 30, 2008, 10:21:30 AM
I have a couple good no thumb bowlers and we put the pin under the middle finger or down and left of the middle finger if they don't track too high. THis will give them a good read with their rev rate.
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Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
www.raysproshop.com
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Smokey469 on September 30, 2008, 10:39:32 AM
Yeah I had'nt thought of that, any other ideas?
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on September 30, 2008, 11:22:54 AM
Drill it based on PAP.  There is nothing different....
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: jbuzz31 on September 30, 2008, 11:33:26 AM
pin axis would help.
but most no thumbers  are supremely rev dominate.
so hes probably gonna need something less than a cherry vibe.
Maybe the razr, or Avalanche pearl, or Lane#1 Liberator or XXXL, or Columbia Jazz, or visionary B/G centaur polished or maybe a 900G Lynk, or .....im outta ideas lol
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Smokey469 on September 30, 2008, 02:26:15 PM
Well I agree about the ball change as well.  I've told him that he needs something weaker, but he's determined to use the Vibe since he just bought it.  I'm not so sure how well pin-axis would work due to the shorter pin, any ideas?
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: jbuzz31 on September 30, 2008, 03:25:03 PM
short pin just means he will have a weight hole near the axis. a rather large one.   or you could maybe do CG axis.
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Monster Pike on September 30, 2008, 03:27:16 PM
quote:
Well I agree about the ball change as well.  I've told him that he needs something weaker, but he's determined to use the Vibe since he just bought it.  I'm not so sure how well pin-axis would work due to the shorter pin, any ideas?
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Then how bout taking the cover up in grit or more polish or combination there of?
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"The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it." Rodney Dangerfield

Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Smokey469 on September 30, 2008, 06:41:45 PM
Believe me, if this thing had any more polish, it'd be a marble!
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on September 30, 2008, 07:41:20 PM
Why in all of these posts is noone else remotely referencing at PAP?

Drillings are based on PAP...there is no "magic" layout for a no-thumber.  You drill it based on a PAP and the revrate/tilt/ballspeed.

If he can't keep a cherry vibe on the lane...he probably needs more than a new layout.  Moving the pin 1/2" further from the PAP won't make a difference.

Also if he tracks high (which most no thumbers do) he will flare all over the fingers with a rico.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"

Edited on 9/30/2008 7:42 PM
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Monster Pike on September 30, 2008, 08:24:36 PM
quote:
Believe me, if this thing had any more polish, it'd be a marble!
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Stand further left?
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"The last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it." Rodney Dangerfield

Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: backswing_aplenty on September 30, 2008, 10:58:17 PM
Try taking the cover down in grit.  Most no-thumbers do have decent speed to match with revs even though they're rev dominant.  For most the backend snap is what kills them, taming down the kick at the back with a little surface may do the trick.  Try 2000 abralon, or lower to see how mellow he wants the ball.

Polishing a "drier lane" ball for hig rev guys usually equals over under.  Smoothing out the breakpoint allows for a more manageable reaction.


*backswing
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*...Got the 5 out clean!

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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: balibowler on September 30, 2008, 11:30:49 PM
Im a no thumb 2 hander, and I have a couple layouts that work EXTREMEMLY well for taming out the dry. And thats all you really can do, smooth out the back end, as thats the biggest enemy of us no thumbers. I have found that pin axis on a mild solid reactive, such as a wizard works VERY well for the fresh, to just starting to break down lanes. The cover of the ball wants to be smooth and earlier with any layout, and the pin axis eliminates the flip on the back end and most flare for that matter, for a very controllable reaction. Also I found that a very strange layout KILLS it on the dry for me. I have a Big R bang that is layed out label for a right hander, and Im lefty. Its the most tame reaction I could ask for, and I ABSOLUTELY light up the house when its dry with it. The negative drill just makes for SUCH a smooth reaction. Over reaction on the backend is completely erased from the equation. It cuts down the total hook potential of most any ball to the minimum, which is exactly what no thumbers need. I suggest either of the 2 for your friend.
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Astroman on October 01, 2008, 11:43:51 AM
Nobody asked ball speed questions?  Also, does he track the ball like a full roller?
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Just another house bowler hack...
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: LuckyLefty on October 02, 2008, 06:12:00 PM
That IS a nifty concept!!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: StormFreak5552 on October 02, 2008, 06:13:26 PM
quote:
Believe me, if this thing had any more polish, it'd be a marble!


Then let him throw a marble if it's the way he needs his ball to be!
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When life gives you lemons, throw them at people, you won't have any lemonade but at least you'll feel better!

Storm Gravity Shift
Storm Attitude Shift
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: TheDude on October 02, 2008, 07:58:09 PM
With a no thumber, if there is no thumb hole drilled the center of the bridge is now the center of the grip. secondly. placing more polish or the pin farther away might not help. he might want to look at an asymetrical and using a control layout closer to his axis point. 1 1/2 to 2 inches off his axis point with a MB at 6 inches will give him something very controlable.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shops
LaSalle, Quebec
Located inside Pont Mercier Lanes.
Edmonton, Alberta.
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Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: strikecing on October 02, 2008, 08:24:23 PM
I would try some stronger balls with the pin drilled to the left of the middle finger.  This should take a ball that like to roll early and push it down the lane.
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Raceway Lanes FOREVER!!! ROYAL PIN YOUR WHATS WRONG IN INDY!!!!
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on October 03, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
This thread is a great example of what too much resources in the hands of people with little knowledge can do.

People noon has addressed a PAP.  I have a buddy that posts on here (twohand834) that has a PAP of like 6 1/2"...if you put the pin "left of the middle finger" he would flare all over the ball.

THERE IS NO MAGICAL DRILLING FOR NO THUMBERS...TREAT THEM LIKE HIGH REV PLAYERS AND FIND AN AXIS POINT....

Drill based on the numbers....and enjoy.

Stop overcomplicating it...you're going to cause someone to waste a lot of money on equipment.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: VIXIV on October 03, 2008, 09:52:50 PM
I don't use my thumb and my driller just bases the drilling on my PAP and the reaction I want. If I want to adjust the surface, I adjust it.

It shouldn't really be that complicated.
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: jbuzz31 on October 04, 2008, 10:51:38 AM
quote:
I used to use a low TW ball(2 oz or less) with pin about 3".  Drill fingers on cg to legal, no thumb hole.   Let the bowler switch between pin out and pin under.
 by flipping the ball around.


wouldnt that ball be illegal?
i thought all balls had to have three holes minimum
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on October 04, 2008, 08:03:35 PM
quote:
I used to use a low TW ball(2 oz or less) with pin about 3".  Drill fingers on cg to legal, no thumb hole.   Let the bowler switch between pin out and pin under.
 by flipping the ball around.


That makes no sense...what makes pin up/pin down react differently is the holes altering the core dynamics.  If there is no thumbhole...you're not really altering the core.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Stormkid84 on October 04, 2008, 09:12:49 PM
Just throwing this out, couldn't drill a ball for a guy who threw with no thumb.  He tracked above the fingers, Horizontally.  Couldn't really map anything out to be legal.
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Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on October 05, 2008, 08:55:18 AM
quote:
Just throwing this out, couldn't drill a ball for a guy who threw with no thumb.  He tracked above the fingers, Horizontally.  Couldn't really map anything out to be legal.
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Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"


We had a guy like this a few years ago....you can do it...but you have to think WAY outside of the box.  Pretend the weight hole is his thumb hole...and that his "thumb" hole is his weight hole.  If you visualize it that way you can make it normal.

His PAP was like 1" over 5" down....or something crazy like that.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: T-GOD on October 05, 2008, 01:19:33 PM
quote:
This thread is a great example of what too much resources in the hands of people with little knowledge can do.

People noon has addressed a PAP. I have a buddy that posts on here (twohand834) that has a PAP of like 6 1/2"...if you put the pin "left of the middle finger" he would flare all over the ball.

THERE IS NO MAGICAL DRILLING FOR NO THUMBERS...TREAT THEM LIKE HIGH REV PLAYERS AND FIND AN AXIS POINT....

Drill based on the numbers....and enjoy.

Stop overcomplicating it...you're going to cause someone to waste a lot of money on equipment.
I totally agree with Jabroni/Russell. OMG..!! =:^D
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: T-GOD on October 05, 2008, 01:27:26 PM
quote:

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I used to use a low TW ball(2 oz or less) with pin about 3". Drill fingers on cg to legal, no thumb hole. Let the bowler switch between pin out and pin under.
by flipping the ball around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That makes no sense...what makes pin up/pin down react differently is the holes altering the core dynamics. If there is no thumbhole...you're not really altering the core.


Totally agreeing with Jabroni/Russell didn't last too long. If you flip the ball upside down, you will now have different pin to PAP distances, as well as high pin vs. low pin, which will both cause the ball to roll different without altering the core dynamics. =:^D
Title: Re: Drilling for no-thumber
Post by: Russell on October 05, 2008, 09:13:06 PM
quote:
quote:

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I used to use a low TW ball(2 oz or less) with pin about 3". Drill fingers on cg to legal, no thumb hole. Let the bowler switch between pin out and pin under.
by flipping the ball around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That makes no sense...what makes pin up/pin down react differently is the holes altering the core dynamics. If there is no thumbhole...you're not really altering the core.


Totally agreeing with Jabroni/Russell didn't last too long. If you flip the ball upside down, you will now have different pin to PAP distances, as well as high pin vs. low pin, which will both cause the ball to roll different without altering the core dynamics. =:^D


We agree on different pin to PAP differences here...that would change...probably.  Depending on PAP...

Now the pin up/down is an affect of the hole placement and the core manipulation.  The relation of the pin to the grip is not the variable...it's the placement of the holes.  If the holes are right around the pin...it won't make much difference what side they are on.  The thumbhole is the one that matters, because it cuts into the middle of the core.

Overall I think the difference is minimal, but not having a thumbhole makes the difference VERY minimal...ALMOST non existent....
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

The artist formerly known as "jabroni"