You have to ignore where the pin ends up on the ball. It is only relative to your PAP. 50x4x50 will look different for everyone. If it is drilled based off your PAP then the reaction characteristics will be the same. If someone pickup your ball that is 50x4x50 for you it will likely not be the same for them because of how they throw the ball.

 

Rev Leverage means nothing. Back in the day 99% of the time it wasn't based on you PAP it was based on the picture they saw in the flyer. So the pin may be 3 3/4" from the bowlers PAP or 4 1/2" depending on the bowler and the skill level of the person drilling it. But everyone would look at the ball and say it was "rev leverage".

 

Same way for "label drilling". That means nothing from bowler to bowler. 

 

Don't look at drillings being weaker or stronger, look at them for their reaction characteristics mentioned. based on your PAP and the ball your matching this drilling up with. Depending on the layout and the ball characteristics will determine the balls reaction. The drilling layout is only a part of the puzzle. 

 

 

I prefer the dual angle method. My favorite thing about it is I know if I want to lay out 5 bowling balls for me 50x4x50 that they will all be exact and on  point. Where as with some other methods the pin to pap and mb to pap my differ. It is all what works easiest for you. 

 

 

 

 

"1 of 1." 

 

Edited by kidlost2000 on 12/1/2011 at 2:45 PM

You have to remember that when the revs leverage and other leverage layouts were used that the many studies on ball motion that are now done weren't even considered. Now that these studies have been done there is a lot more knowledge about what is wanted and how to create that ball motion.

 

Like I stated before it is an important factor to get the ball into a roll before it gets to the pins to help create the best carry. However, getting the ball into a roll too early and you achieve "hook out". So with the dual angle and Storms Assym. drill guides (which was actually developed by Mo Pinel as well before Storm began using them. He developed the dual angle method because it is easier and slightly more acurate.) all you are doing is using these angles to help delay the different transitions a little more or less. But they mean nothing if you don't get the pin to pap right....

 

As for your question. 50 x 4 x 50 is going to roll sooner than a 60 x 4 x 70 so yes it will be stronger.....Will it be enough to notice on a THS? I highly doubt it. In fact the 60 x 4 x 70 might be better on a THS (depending on the bowler). But if you got them on a little heavier oil where the 60 x 4 x 70 just missed getting into a roll before the pins the 50 x 4 x 50 would be a better option because it is stronger....

 

Also, to add to it. If you hit the pin down ball with 2000 and the other at 4000 you probably wouldn't see much difference. You can delay or speed up transitions just as easily with surface as you can with a slight change in angles.... 

 

Edited by tdub36tjt on 12/2/2011 at 2:05 PM

OK, there's a lot going on here. It will be tough to paint an accurate picture in a forum post but, I'll give it my best shot. All layouts must be based off of an accurate PAP. In any method (dual angle, Storm PB, whatever) they are driving at the same thing. That is positioning the Weight Block in the ball based on the layout. If you lay a ball out using Dual Angle and then move the grip you are actually changing the location of the PAP relative to the layout and how the weight block is positioned in the layout. So, yes...the numbers will change and therefore the reaction will be modified as well. It doesn't matter what layout technique you use that will remain true. Using Dual Angle, the first angle determines how quickly the core begins to influence reaction shape. So, yes it can be viewed as a measure of length with some respect. The Pin to PAP distance determines flare relative to the balls overall flare potential as determined by the manufacturer. The second angle controls how quickly the ball transitions on the friction.

 

Now, let's say I lay a Symmetrical ball out ... 4X4. That layout will look a little different from bowler to bowler simply because of the location of their PAP. To simplify the conversation let's assume both bowlers have the same skill, similar rev rate etc., and the same ball with surface and lane conditions the same. The only variable is the location of their PAP implying the ball comes off their hand differently.  The layout may look different but the shape and reaction will be very close.

 

Yes, 3 3/8 is the strongest position for a layout. It is because that pin to PAP distance places the weight block in the most unstable position (45 degrees from x and y axis). That has not changed from back in the day and probably never will.

 

Please keep in mind that the numbers work differently depending on whether you have a Symmetrical or Asymmetrical core. The difference is due largely because of the strong Mass Bias in Asymm. core balls which has more influence on the ball roll on the lane. Essentially, the MB is the PSA for the ball in an Asymmetrical core ball. Once a Symmetrical ball is drilled the Thumb Hole becomes the PSA (positive spin axis) because it is the largest hole in the ball therefore an area where the most mass has been taken out of the ball. Effectively, making it an Asymmetrical core ball. So, yes, you can use dual angle on the Symmetrical core balls as a layout technique as long as you realize the dynamics of the PSA. This is because undrilled Symmetrical core balls do not have a strong Mass Bias.

 

Well, long explanation and probably did not really do it justice but, suffice to say that a layout is all about the relationship to the bowlers PAP and that the PAP will vary from bowler to bowler based on their release characteristics.

 

 

Fran Varin

USBC Silver

www.strikefxproshops.com">Strike F/X Proshops

Brunswick Advisory Staff

Fran Varin

USBC Silver

www.strikefxproshops.com">Strike F/X Proshops

Brunswick Advisory Staff