Author Topic: Drilling into the pin (Read 5508 times)

thegame · « **on:** July 08, 2009, 01:50:15 PM »

I was looking at a couple of different layouts for my Raw Hammer Burn, and with the pin being at about 2 inches, I was worried if I put the pin above the fingers it may require a weight hole, and I wanted the length and flip reaction I had been hearing about, so I didn't want to put the pin below the fingers. I decided to drill out the pin completely in the ring finger, and placed the CG almost in the middle of the grip. The ball has great length, but the backend isn't anywhere near what I have been hearing from others who have thrown it. There is definitely a strong move, but more of a jump to the left when playing straighter, not really a change of direction/get around the corner flip. I'm wondering if drilling the pin out tames down the reaction a bit, or I just need to work with the ball and possibly surface a bit more. Thanks everyone.

raiderh20boy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2009, 09:55:55 PM »

You can think of the "pin" as the end of a pencil that is stuck in the top of the core. Drilling out the pin will not change the reaction of the ball. Where the pin is LOCATED will give different "shapes" of reactions.
--------------------
Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!

J_Mac · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:15:54 PM »

quote:
You can think of the "pin" as the end of a pencil that is stuck in the top of the core. Drilling out the pin will not change the reaction of the ball. Where the pin is LOCATED will give different "shapes" of reactions.
--------------------

That would be true if you were only removing the pin. Any hole drilled into a ball more than 1" will affect the dynamics of the ball. The deeper the hole, the more of a change.

If you have small fingers and aren't drilling that deeply into the ball you might not see a huge change, but generally speaking most people are using inserts that require at least a pair of 7/8" x 1 1/2" holes.

Two holes like that into the top of the core will effectively shorten the core making it lower RG and also lowering the diff.

Most of the balls I've had with this layout also have a flare increasing hole to get back some of the lost differential.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:38:40 PM »

quote:
Most of the balls I've had with this layout also have a flare increasing hole to get back some of the lost differential.

J Mac, where is the better place to drill this hole...... below the PAP or under the PAP 6" or so on a line from center of grip thru the PAP or where?

My reason for asking is because I have a ball that I want to drill a flare increasing hole on.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

Edited on 7/8/2009 10:41 PM

HamPster · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:54:20 PM »

Yeah, the pin is a half ounce piece of plastic telling you where the top of the core is, or what's left of the dipstick used to hold the core in place while they're casting the shell. Makes as much difference as an ounce of sideweight . .
--------------------
This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.

J_Mac · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2009, 10:59:47 PM »

Flare increasing holes are generally 6 3/4" from the pin. As far as exact location, that can vary due to the need of keeping statics legal.

Generally it's helpful to have the CG fall below the midline. If that's the case simply extend a line from the grip center through the CG and drill the hole along that line where it's 6 3/4" from the pin.

The weight hole in the Rico layout is an example of a flare increasing hole.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2009, 11:08:08 PM »

Thanks J Mac.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

J_Mac · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2009, 11:52:13 PM »

quote:
Yeah, the pin is a half ounce piece of plastic telling you where the top of the core is, or what's left of the dipstick used to hold the core in place while they're casting the shell. Makes as much difference as an ounce of sideweight . .
--------------------

It's not the pin that is the issue, it's what is under the pin that matters.

batbowler · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2009, 12:47:28 AM »

Here's a link to BrunsNick demo on weight holes: http://www.brunsnick.com/bowling_ball_x_hole_video.html

--------------------
"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."
Roto Grip - Storm : What else do you need?
Bruce Campbell
IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.rotogrip.com
www.rotogear.com

thegame · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:26:47 AM »

Thanks for the help everyone, I didn't think it would alter the reaction that much, so I went with that layout, but after seeing the ball reaction, thought I would ask and double check. If I continue to struggle with it, I may look into that flare increasing hole.

J_Mac · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:41:46 AM »

Putting the pin in your ring finger puts it how far from your PAP?

batbowler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2009, 02:02:29 AM »

Hey, were on here to help each other and as J Mac said about pin to pap distance with the pin in your ring finger. Depending on your pap will change the pin to pap distance. If I place the pin in my ring finger it's a 4" pin to pap distance with my pap being 43/4" > x 3/4" ^.
--------------------
"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."
Roto Grip - Storm : What else do you need?
Bruce Campbell
IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.rotogrip.com
www.rotogear.com

JustRico · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2009, 06:43:24 AM »

Brickguy
In adding a flare increasing weight hole, it depends on the reaction or change you are looking for.
There are a few different ways to accomplish this.
If you want to increase the overall reaction, place the weight hole 2"-3 3/8" from the PAP down the VAL.
If you want to increase the flare, as well as length and back end, place the weight hole on a line from the pin through and past the PAP 2"-3 3/8".
The strongest placement of a weight hole is 6 3/4" from the pin and 3 3/8" from the PAP.
Larger diameter weight holes generally create an earlier overall reaction in comparison to a smaller diameter weight hole. Shallower has a similar effect compared to a deeper weight hole.
I suggest starting with a 7/8" drill bit 2" deep. This will allow the best range of variance in altering the reaction. You can go deeper, as well as larger with the weight hole to altering the reaction.

Hope this makes sense.

--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

As posted by Steven..."None other than our esteemed JustRico!!"

EboHammer4ever · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2009, 09:55:02 AM »

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but if you place the weight hole past the PAP on a ball as strong as the Burn, you are going to definitely flare over the weight hole. I agree with placing weight holes down from the PAP along the VAL, you usually get away with it not flaring over the hole. From my experience, I place all my weight holes inside the PAP at least 1/2" and I still get the reaction I'm looking for and none the balls I have drilled for me or friends or customers have ever flared over the weight hole.

Getting back to the original post from "thegame", you could have placed the pin over your fingers, your fingers would have fallen between the pin and the CG and you probably wouldn't have needed a weighthole, just drill the fingers deeper to take out more finger weight after you balance the ball then you wouldn't have needed a weight hole. Just did this for a friend on an Emerald Vibe and it gives him great length with awesome backend.

From what I have seen from my friends Burn, that was drilled with a 5 by 5 layout pin up on a 4 inch pin ball, it is the strongest backending ball he has ever thrown. Its just like any other ball, you have to break the cover in on the new balls before their true potential comes out. Keep at it.

Roto4ever
--------------------
Jarrett Roseboom
Ebonite fan
pics of my equipment
http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu109/jarrettcr/My%20Bowling%20Equipment/

JustRico · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:36:46 AM »

75-80% of bowlers (if not more) are not going to flare over a weight hole drilled past the PAP. Above average rev rates, yes. But your average league or recreational bowler will not create that much flare.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

As posted by Steven..."None other than our esteemed JustRico!!"

Author Topic: Drilling into the pin (Read 5508 times)

thegame

Drilling into the pin

raiderh20boy

Re: Drilling into the pin

J_Mac

Re: Drilling into the pin

Brickguy221

Re: Drilling into the pin

HamPster

Re: Drilling into the pin

J_Mac

Re: Drilling into the pin

Brickguy221

Re: Drilling into the pin

J_Mac

Re: Drilling into the pin

batbowler

Re: Drilling into the pin

thegame

Re: Drilling into the pin

J_Mac

Re: Drilling into the pin

batbowler

Re: Drilling into the pin

JustRico

Re: Drilling into the pin

EboHammer4ever

Re: Drilling into the pin

JustRico

Re: Drilling into the pin