BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: TeeP Nade on July 18, 2017, 02:08:22 PM
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i have a venom shock that i REALLY love. im debating about drilling a new one. i understand the basics of dual angle. i'd like to get this 2nd shock to not read the dry/friction as hard, ive noticed when the pattern(specifically on sport) starts to burn up, i try to throw harder, and that afftects pin carry. and beforre anybody suggests it, i dont want to try a different ball as with my speed, i match up to solids well. for the sake of discussion because i do not have the ball infront of me to get the exact specs, lets just say its 60 x 5 x 40. dont like low end stuff because it seems to be too flippy, and too strong on the dry and not strong enough for wet. i was thinking go 60 x 6 x 40 so that it dosnt flare as much and isnt as strong in the dry. would 1 inch be enough? also i could change surface to 4k along with the 6inch pin to pap. whats everyones opinions
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Considering the weakness of the core, I am not sure 1 inch would be noticeable.
I am confused on what the gap you are trying to fill really is. Do you want a ball that you can move to after your current Venom Shock starts to burn up? Another one with a stronger drill and perhaps polish could be choice. Reduce the angle to the VAL also.
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Trying to make it my ball down ball. The shock is nice but when lanes burn up, and it see's Alot of friction, it takes off. I like the shape of my current shock so I still want the same shape just not as hard off the friction.
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Pin distance for traction and angles for shape. If you like the amount of oil you can play in with the 5" pin, then keep that pin distance. If you want it to be slower response to the friction then increase the angle sum. 60 and 40 create a pretty strong move to friction to generalize. Consider 70x5x60 and put the pin down. All of this should really be discussed with your PSO though as they can watch your game and actually get a feel for it and what you need.
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^^ this
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So how far do you move before you usually ball down ?
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the venom shock is a low diff symmetrical ball. the dual angles of it will play a slight role in changing shape however more needs to be known. your stats, are key and essential because, in symmetrical balls (especially if you are buying the same one) I like to completely change the layout and pin to PAP distance to create a bigger separation, also weight hole location.
for example, if the one you currently have is 60x5x40 with no hole, to separate them I would either do a stronger 50x3 3/8x30 to get a hole to pull the PSA closer to the VAL and trade the downlane motion for more front to back motion. This will make the ball stronger in and read the lane faster. If I wanted to keep the same length but lower the diff so it doesn't flare as much I would create a bigger VAL angle to make the ball more usable when they dry up a bit. 60x5x70 with a hole so that I lower the diff and maybe a surface change. This is all to play off the first ball.
Im always a fan of multiples if the ball works well for you and is versatile enough. Just have to play with Layout, Weight Hole Location, and Surface to create the separation so that its not the exact same ball in your bag or a motion that you could have gotten if you changed your targets.
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I don't think you have to worry about making the Shock too flippy. I had one that was pin up motion hole at 3000 grit with light polish. This was great on the house shot. I also had one that was kept at 2000 grit, or so, with a stronger, midlane layout. The combo was great on sport shots. The motion hole ball was never true skid/flip. I agree with Righty's post.
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the venom shock is a low diff symmetrical ball. the dual angles of it will play a slight role in changing shape however more needs to be known. your stats, are key and essential because, in symmetrical balls (especially if you are buying the same one) I like to completely change the layout and pin to PAP distance to create a bigger separation, also weight hole location.
for example, if the one you currently have is 60x5x40 with no hole, to separate them I would either do a stronger 50x3 3/8x30 to get a hole to pull the PSA closer to the VAL and trade the downlane motion for more front to back motion. This will make the ball stronger in and read the lane faster. If I wanted to keep the same length but lower the diff so it doesn't flare as much I would create a bigger VAL angle to make the ball more usable when they dry up a bit. 60x5x70 with a hole so that I lower the diff and maybe a surface change. This is all to play off the first ball.
Im always a fan of multiples if the ball works well for you and is versatile enough. Just have to play with Layout, Weight Hole Location, and Surface to create the separation so that its not the exact same ball in your bag or a motion that you could have gotten if you changed your targets.
I'll get everything exactly tomorrow can't get to my equipment (I'll get exact dual angle layout of current shock)
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ok, just grabbed the ball... all specs are as follows:
layout:45 x 5 x 40
PAP: 4 13/15→ 1 1/8 ↑
rev rate: 450ish
speed: 18 mph
not sure of my tilt or rotation, all i know is im low track.
current shock is at factor finish, about 100 games
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Are you saying you haven't messed with the surface ever even with 100+ games? Or you have tried to duplicate factory surface and that is what it has now?
For me, the core strength in the Shock is such that the overall ball is cover dominant. In these situations, if I want the same ball added to my arsenal, the drilling plus cover changes is required to provide significant separation. For me, when a ball is beginning to burn up, I would rather change shape and move in than try to stay in the same area of the lane. The only time I would consider balling down is on extremely short patterns.
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i have yet to touch the surface. clean it about once a week, and baked it once(then just hit it with the powerhouse clean n dull not abralon pad).
and on the new shock(if i were to get one) i was gonna go with a weaker layout + less surface. i know the shock is finished at 4k, so i'd probably put current shock at 2-3k and have the new one possibly polished if i want a bigger gap in motion.
i dont really have a ball i like to move in with because im in the process of getting all new equipment, and im looking at a ball down ball first. im the stubborn " i'll change balls before i move my feet" type of bowler(i know, not a good mindset)especially on sport, if i find an area thats working for the shock, id rather ball down then move, but i dont like pearls
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I understand. I guess you could weaken the drilling and if you like the even rolling look, then consider going less than 3.5 inches on your pin-PAP. Once you polish the Shock it might want to check up on you a little bit if the heads are starting to go.
Get with your driller to discuss. Also hope other chime in here also.
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the problem is, i drill my own stuff...thats y im trying to get more advanced knowledge fro people that know more. i work in the center along with help out the guy in the shop, and he just knows whats been passed down to him from previous shop owner. none of us have actually went to class or anything.
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You could also look at Justin's video where he shows three different drillings and how the reactions compare.
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I understand. I guess you could weaken the drilling and if you like the even rolling look, then consider going less than 3.5 inches on your pin-PAP. Once you polish the Shock it might want to check up on you a little bit if the heads are starting to go.
Get with your driller to discuss. Also hope other chime in here also.
I agree, maybe a 2" pin to PAP and some surface to get more front to back.
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Change surface and hand position .Surface is most critical
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It just sounds like you're trying to over-complicate things. It's a typical point of progression for most pro shop guys, you want to know the technical stuff so you can feel like you know what you're doing, but the more technical stuff you know, the more you realize simpler is better. It's nice to know just to know, but the game needs less math and more personal vision and feel. I can take one ball with one surface and one drill and make it do 7 different things, I don't need 7 different balls with different surfaces and layouts to make up for my lack of skill and/or versatility. Bowler skill > math any day of the week. Understanding how layouts affect ball reaction is definitely good information, but doing abstract things so you can feel smarter is just taking something simple and making it complicated for the sake of ego really. Not trying to be mean or dog anyone, and I'm not insinuating that you're an egomaniac on a trip, just saying that's where it leads.
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It just sounds like you're trying to over-complicate things. It's a typical point of progression for most pro shop guys, you want to know the technical stuff so you can feel like you know what you're doing, but the more technical stuff you know, the more you realize simpler is better. It's nice to know just to know, but the game needs less math and more personal vision and feel. I can take one ball with one surface and one drill and make it do 7 different things, I don't need 7 different balls with different surfaces and layouts to make up for my lack of skill and/or versatility. Bowler skill > math any day of the week. Understanding how layouts affect ball reaction is definitely good information, but doing abstract things so you can feel smarter is just taking something simple and making it complicated for the sake of ego really. Not trying to be mean or dog anyone, and I'm not insinuating that you're an egomaniac on a trip, just saying that's where it leads.
knowledge is power :D
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Lol knowledge can also mind-f#@% the shiatsu out of you too. Context is often the most important thing. Knowledge is worthless and often detrimental if you don't know how to utilize it.
It just sounds like you're trying to over-complicate things. It's a typical point of progression for most pro shop guys, you want to know the technical stuff so you can feel like you know what you're doing, but the more technical stuff you know, the more you realize simpler is better. It's nice to know just to know, but the game needs less math and more personal vision and feel. I can take one ball with one surface and one drill and make it do 7 different things, I don't need 7 different balls with different surfaces and layouts to make up for my lack of skill and/or versatility. Bowler skill > math any day of the week. Understanding how layouts affect ball reaction is definitely good information, but doing abstract things so you can feel smarter is just taking something simple and making it complicated for the sake of ego really. Not trying to be mean or dog anyone, and I'm not insinuating that you're an egomaniac on a trip, just saying that's where it leads.
knowledge is power :D
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Lol knowledge can also mind-f#@% the shiatsu out of you too. Context is often the most important thing. Knowledge is worthless and often detrimental if you don't know how to utilize it.
"Yah, but I done made my mind up"