BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: JS on April 12, 2006, 03:46:46 PM
-
I just received my March BTM yesterday (I have slow postal service!) and was reading the Senior Spotlight article. In it the author talks about a customer that had little flexibility in their ring finger (about 30 degrees) and they had a fingertip ball with NO forward pitch and he said no wonder it hurt.
Isn't this opposite of what you would do with inflexible fingers? Wouldn't you want to put inflexible fingers into reverse pitch?
-
Had to be a misprint...yes...reverse pitch makes sense.
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
-
I noticed that too...but it was at 1:30 in the morning so I thought maybe I misread it. I have inflexible fingers (at the last knuckle) and I definitely need reverse pitch. This is not conjecture--I have tried forward pitch and it caused pain.
Shiv
--------------------
Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top
-
finger pitch goes opposite of thumb No his right!!
--------------------
Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS! Bowling with 99.99% Luck and 0.01 % skill!!
-
quote:
finger pitch goes opposite of thumb No his right!!
--------------------
Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS! Bowling with 99.99% Luck and 0.01 % skill!!
It was a misprint it needs to say reverse, i use 1/2 reverse in both fingers might be going to 5/8 reverse sometime before next season.
-
I too have inflexible fingers. We tried 3/8 reverse in both fingers (from zero) and 1/16 forward (from 1/8 reverse) in the thumb. I experienced shooting pain in both fingers. We then tried 1/4 reverse in the fingers and zero pitch in the thumb, and I still experienced pain.
We tried this experiment because my driller thought I was squeezing the ball too much with reverse thumb pitch and I have an unsightly bump on my middle finger, so when we went forward with the thumb pitch, we also went reverse with the fingers at the same time. I've never experienced discomfort with zero finger pitch but thought I'd give reverse a try.
Now my driller wants me to see someone else for a second opinion because he's not sure what to do with me. I suppose not everyone is a textbook case.
Debbie
On Edit: I read the same article in BTM and didn't think it was a misprint because I experienced the same pain with reverse finger pitch. I must admit that it confused me, however, because it's contrary to what ball drillers have been telling me.
Edited on 4/14/2006 4:33 PM
-
debs130,
I have experienced the same as you. My fingers are very inflexible and whenever a pro shop operator takes a look at my hands the first thing they want to do is put me at reverse in the fingers. Every time I tried this I experienced pain and then I go back to my 1/8th forward and everything is ok. Not textbook but it works.
-
That's what I see when I use reverse in the fingers; earlier roll and decreased backend. When I go back to forward in the fingers I get more length and a stronger backend.
-
Several years ago I went to forward pitch in the thumb. On the advice of Magic Carpet, I went to more forward.
No one ever told me I should have my finger pitches checked until 2 weeks ago. I went from 1/8 forward to zero in the middle finger and liked it. Both fingers were at 0.
I decided to experiment with moving the middle finger another 1/8, to 1/8 reverse. I shot one of my higher games of the season with it 243. It results in a more relaxed and smoother release. I am now having all the finger pitches changed.
--------------------
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
-
I just read the last several replies about finger pitches. No one has yet mentioned this but are your drillers changing the spans that must go along with changes in finger and thumb pitches??? That can make a world of difference. I just don't know if they are or aren't. More reverse requires wider span; less reverse or forward requires shorter spans.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
-
Reading Deadbait's post makes me realize that I was not really precise with my language in my earlier post. The problem with the last knuckle on my two bowling fingers is not inflexibility, it is arthritis. They are the only two knuckles on any of my fingers that have arthritis, and it is very likely because of having improperly drilled bowling balls for years before I discovered BTM, attended their Superschool, and found out that not everyone who operates a "pro" shop knows what they are doing. I now have a top notch ball driller. It is possible that I could have used forward pitch in the fingers at one time, if my span and various other pitches had been correct, but now that the knuckles are damaged, they require reverse pitch. I have experimented with pitches a bit, and my knuckles make their requirement for reverse quite clear anytime they are given anything else.
Shiv
--------------------
Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top
-
Charlest,
To answer your question regarding changing the span: Yes, my span was widened a small amount when the pitches were changed.
Debbie
-
quote:
I hate to burst all these bubbles, but no one has "flexibility" in the last joint of their fingers. Most all of us are lucky to have 45 degrees. Just keep in mind that as the ball is delivered the ball will fall onto the fingers as the thumb exits. The fallacy of "away" pitch in the fingers only does one thing, less time to impart any lift or rotation with the fingers. If that is the goal, go for it. BUT, don't use away pitch for comfort or "feel". That means nothing. Drilling enough "away" pitch in the fingers to "feel good" will only do one thing, early roll, early hook, no backend.
Don't make generalizations. Why? Because I've had severe finger pain while I bowl. Not from ripping on the ball either, because I would still feel pain when I would throw my revless spare shot. Tried softening my release, didn't do much of anything. So I went to my driller, and he fitted me with some reverse pitch in my fingers. Low and behold, it allowed me to release pain free. I was going to have to quit bowling because I was close to permanent injury, but the pitch has allowed me to continue bowling. And I'm not just crazy, I didn't change my release at the same time thereby relieving the pain. How do I know this? Because after I used the new pitched balls and stopped feeling pain, I wondered what would happen if I threw the old stuff. Guess what, it hurt like you know what. Tried the new pitch again, didn't feel anything. And I haven't lost any revs or anything. Only difference in my release is that it's far more consistent, since I'm not worried about pain anymore and can feel free to release the ball.
Your statement may be true for some people, but to make a blanket statement telling people that changing finger pitch to add reverse does nothing for anyone and is a silly myth, is simply false. Otherwise, I'd like for you to explain what caused the change, since I haven't altered my release at all. Same roll on the ball and everything.
--------------------
- Andy
-
I haven't had my span changed. If I recall correctly, my span was a bit stretched from the start. All I can verify is the release is more relaxed and more comfortable.
--------------------
"I cannot change the direction of the wind but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
-
I went from 4 1/2 to 4 5/16 and from 0 finger pitch too 1/2 reverse, i guess i am against all logic for these post. I have far better roll cant overhit a ball but still hit the crap out of it, have great ball reaction and dont have a blood blister under my fingernails anymore from pitches and spans. I felt locked in the ball with the correct span but with my knuckle up span from Billy Hall helping/coaching me its all bread and butter now. If you have seen bolwers map at 1/60 th frame like i have with Bill Hall on his computer you will realize that alot of pros use knuckle up spans. This includes WRW,Duke,Wiseman,Ozio and more of Bill's past students, with longer blocks of bowling this a preferred way of comfort.
-
quote:
I hate to burst all these bubbles, but no one has "flexibility" in the last joint of their fingers. Most all of us are lucky to have 45 degrees. Just keep in mind that as the ball is delivered the ball will fall onto the fingers as the thumb exits. The fallacy of "away" pitch in the fingers only does one thing, less time to impart any lift or rotation with the fingers. If that is the goal, go for it. BUT, don't use away pitch for comfort or "feel". That means nothing. Drilling enough "away" pitch in the fingers to "feel good" will only do one thing, early roll, early hook, no backend.
I hate to burst your bubble but your saying don't pitch the fingers away for comfort or feel? What? I thought a proper fitted bowling ball is supposed to be for comfort and feel.
Now I went to 1/4 away in my ring finger for 1 purpose. That purpose is to reduce pain inmy ring finger. This is even with a relaxed span for that finger. My middle finger pitch is 1/16 forward. That finger doesn't hurt and feels good with that pitch. My ring finger is a completely different story.
So if I went by your theory about comfort and feel I should have kept the forward in the ring finger even though the pitch was causing me pain. I don't think that would have been very smart. I prefer to bowl in comfort and no pain so I will stick with the away in that finger.
Your correct about going too far away. Going too far away will probably give you less back end and revs.
I'm kind of surprised by your reply. I never would have thought you would make a statement about a bowlers finger pitch like that. Don't pitch the fingers away for comfort or feel? Wow that's far off base.
-
For me, reverse pitch in the fingers helped to eliminate "grabbing" of the ball at the bottom of my swing... resulting in a much smoother release (and consequently more revs with less effort). My current finger pitches are 3/4" reverse on middle finger and 7/8" on ring finger. I'm convinced that I could probably even go more..and may experiment with it sometime down the road. If you check out Mika's grip, he uses lots of reverse in the fingers as well (thinking around 1"??)...
S^2
--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-Strapper Squared
Picked up Sam Adams (http://"http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5177") and now just need to sign LaVaar (http://"http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5031")... Watch out AFC!
-
WOW....Some of you guys need to lay off of the pipe!!!
There are many Touring pros that have more than 1/2" reverse in the fingers.
The reverse in the fingers mainly helps you stop hitting the ball. Saying that it starts the ball rolling earlier would mean that you didn't already roll the ball off of your hand. I have gone to 1" reverse in the fingers and have no trouble getting a backend reaction on any condition. Pitches are there to make the ball FIT properly. My fingers call for somewhere between 1/2 to 1 1/16 reverse (depending which person has looked at my hand.) Generalizing in something like this shows your true lack of knowledge. Next time you should do a little more research on the subject.
--------------------
B.I.G. Don't pretend that it's not.
-
what I notice over the years is that flexibility in the fingers should be relitave to the span like the thumb. a bowler with a 5" span will not get the same pitches as a bowler with a 4" span if both have the same flexibility. if both bowlers have 90 degree in the fingers the bowler with the 4" span may get from 0-1/4 forward and the bowler with the 5" span may get 1/8-1/4 reverse in the fingers.
--------------------
"THE BOWLERS WILL NOT BE DENIED"
-
I feel finger pitches should be all about comfort. I use 1/16 forward in my middle finger and 1/4 reverse for my ring finger. I don't have the same flexability in my ring finger and the reverse pitch is very comfortable.
-
quote:
I hate to burst all these bubbles, but no one has "flexibility" in the last joint of their fingers. Most all of us are lucky to have 45 degrees.
Question: Are you talking about forward flexibility, or reverse flexibility?
I'm sitting here with a protractor (no kidding - I found one from grade school), and I have about 40 degrees reverse flex and a full 90 degrees forward flex (I can touch the pads of my fingers tightly against the interior first joint of the same finger, if that visualization makes any sense).
Jess
-
quote:
quote:
I hate to burst all these bubbles, but no one has "flexibility" in the last joint of their fingers. Most all of us are lucky to have 45 degrees.
Question: Are you talking about forward flexibility, or reverse flexibility?
I'm sitting here with a protractor (no kidding - I found one from grade school), and I have about 40 degrees reverse flex and a full 90 degrees forward flex (I can touch the pads of my fingers tightly against the interior first joint of the same finger, if that visualization makes any sense).
Jess
Jess,
Not sure what you mean by "reverse flex", but I understand your forward flex position. I have the same. I had a 5"/5 1/8" span at one point in time (with 3/8" reverse in the thumb and 0 pitch in fingers). I now use a 4 3/4" span with 1/4" reverse in fingers and 0"/0" pitch in the thumb.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
-
By "reverse flex," it means I can push my fingertips backwards towards the back of my wrist without the rest of my fingers moving, using my other hand to do it.
In other words, it's not true that "no one has flexibility" in that joint, as Deadbait thinks. I also have lateral flexibility of about 30 degrees in each joint (movement side to side).
Jess
Edited on 4/28/2006 5:45 PM