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Author Topic: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.  (Read 6926 times)

86camaroman

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How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« on: November 12, 2007, 04:41:28 AM »
Exactly how it reads All my stuff is just drilled by putting pin above bridge pin below ring finger things like that. I would like to drill a ball based on my pap how do I do this. I know how to find my pap just dont know exactly how to make the pap so many inches from the pin on an undrilled ball. Thanks in advance.

 

azguy

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2007, 12:56:22 PM »
http://www.home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/Degree_layout_system.htm

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triggerman

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2007, 12:58:04 PM »

NicholasE

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2007, 01:11:51 PM »
That storm video is very interesting there. I've never seen it done before and it looked alot easier then what I thought it would. I don't know how he go all those numbers but that was still pretty cool.
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shelley

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2007, 01:21:44 PM »
There are a few ways of laying a ball out using your PAP.  You can use the single-angle system that uses the PAP-pin-CG/MB angle, you can use the actual pin-to-PAP and CG/MB-to-PAP distances, the dual-angle system, probably a few others.

In general, since the PAP is defined in terms of distance from the grip center and above/below the midline, laying a ball out based on your PAP means finding where the center of grip and the midline go.  

If you want to use pin-to-PAP and CG/MB-to-PAP distances, draw circles around each of those spots whose radius is the distance you want.  They'll intersect in (generally) two places.  One will be your PAP, the other will not.  If you think about what the layout should probably look like, it's obvious which is which.  From that point, you use your PAP coordinates to find the center of grip.  If your PAP is 5" over and 0" up/down, then draw a line 5" over to find your grip center.

Draw a line 5" over in which direction?  I mean, there are a lot of directions to choose from.  You need one additional piece of information to determine where the midline goes.  In the past, it's been the pin height above the midline, some people like using the pin-to-VAL distance.  If you use the former, once you've chosen a pin height, draw a circle around the pin with that radius.  Draw a line from the PAP that's tangent (only touches in one place) to that circle.  That's the midline.  Measure 5" over to find the center of grip.  The grip centerline (from the thumb through the bridge) is perpendicular to the midline though the grip center.  Fingerholes go above the midline, thumb below.

What if you want to use the pin-to-VAL?  Draw the same circle around the pin like you were doing pin-over-midline, but now the line through the PAP tangent to that circle is the VAL and the midline is perpendicular to that through the PAP.  This might be easier if your PAP has a vertical component since you can easily measure up or down the VAL before drawing the midline.

Suppose you want to use the single angle system.  You choose the angle you want, draw a reference line from the pin through the CG or MB, then another line at the appropriate angle through the pin to the right (for a righty) of the reference line.  Measure along this second line to find the PAP, whatever pin-to-PAP distance you want.  Finding the midline or VAL is the same as above, depending on what system you want to use for that.

The dual angle system, I don't know much about.  I believe it's the pin-PAP-VAL and MB-PAP-VAL angles, though you couldn't use just any combination you want easily.  How you'd find the PAP using those angles isn't something I've worked out or read about.

There's a video out there showing one of the Brunswick staffers laying out a Zone Classic with the single angle system.  Seeing that in action goes a very long way towards understanding how to do it.  You can also draw it on a piece of paper with a regular old protractor (one that has a built-in ruler on the flat edge helps) and compass, there's nothing magical about doing it on a sphere.  Make a dot for the pin, a dot for the CG or MB, and go to it.  You can figure out where the grip will go and what orientation it's in relative to the pin and MB/CG and it will look similar to how it'd look on a ball.

It's not that hard to find the grip center.  Finding where to put the holes relative to it is not trivial, but once you have the grip center, you can guesstimate where the holes go and get an idea about how each of your balls is really laid out.  You're not actually going to drill it anyway, your shop will.  Choosing the layout is an art as well.

SH

Edited on 11/12/2007 2:30 PM

directdrill

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2007, 01:27:56 PM »
quote:
 That's the midline.  Measure 5" over to find the center of grip.  The grip centerline (from the thumb through the bridge) is perpendicular to the midline though the PAP.  Fingerholes go above the midline, thumb below.


SH


Shelley,

The grip centerline is perpendicular to the midline through the PAP?  I thought the grip centerline is perpendicular only to the midline.
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shelley

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2007, 01:31:56 PM »
quote:
The grip centerline is perpendicular to the midline through the PAP?  I thought the grip centerline is perpendicular only to the midline.


My bad.  The grip centerline is perpendicular to the midline through the grip center.  The VAL is perpendicular to the midline through the PAP.  I fixed it, thanks.

SH

qstick777

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2007, 01:49:58 PM »
http://www.tunedballmotion.com/Example%20Layout.htm


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86camaroman

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2007, 01:53:57 PM »
Thanks for the responses but I am still totally lost I dont understand what you mean draw a circle and stuff like that. Can you break it down and make it simpler for me to understand please.

Lillen

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shelley

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 02:05:52 PM »
Using a compass, set the points, say, 4" apart if you want to draw a circle with a 4" radius.  Put the needle point at the center of the pin, the pencil end on the paper, and swing it around.  Viola!  A circle with a 4" radius, centered on the pin.  Do the same with the CG or MB.  Those circles will generally intersect in either zero or two places.  If you draw, say, 3" circles around the pin and MB, they won't touch since the pin and MB are 6 3/4" apart, but the 4" circles will touch in two places.

If I have time, I'll do some drawing in Paint or something like that.  I will have to see.

SH

86camaroman

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2007, 02:29:29 PM »
My question is why 4 inch circles. what if you did 5 or 6 Thanks again for the help I am just trying to understand so I can lay a ball out myself and just have it drilled.

triggerman

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2007, 02:42:32 PM »
the 4" is the desired dimension the driller wanted that can be 1" to 6" or anything else depending on layout you are looking for
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shelley

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 02:47:06 PM »
quote:
My question is why 4 inch circles. what if you did 5 or 6 Thanks again for the help I am just trying to understand so I can lay a ball out myself and just have it drilled.


Just an example.  If you wanted a 5" pin-to-PAP, draw a circle with a 5" radius.  2" pin-to-PAP, draw a circle with a 2" radius.

For most people, a 4" pin-to-PAP will put the pin just to the right of their grip and it's hard to get confused over which intersection point will be the correct PAP.

I found a program that will let me make diagrams for each step.  I will work on making some images to illustrate each step.

SH

ccrider

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Re: How do you drill a ball based on your pap.
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 02:56:54 PM »
Look forward to seeingthis demonstrated.

Charles

quote:
quote:
My question is why 4 inch circles. what if you did 5 or 6 Thanks again for the help I am just trying to understand so I can lay a ball out myself and just have it drilled.


Just an example.  If you wanted a 5" pin-to-PAP, draw a circle with a 5" radius.  2" pin-to-PAP, draw a circle with a 2" radius.

For most people, a 4" pin-to-PAP will put the pin just to the right of their grip and it's hard to get confused over which intersection point will be the correct PAP.

I found a program that will let me make diagrams for each step.  I will work on making some images to illustrate each step.

SH