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Author Topic: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting  (Read 5659 times)

J_w73

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IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« on: August 07, 2022, 12:35:15 AM »
I was just at a pro shop and they had some fitting instructions from a recent IBPSIA class. I noticed that they are not using the fitting tubes for the thumb lateral pitch, but using a different thumb hinge method where they just push on the base of the thumb and see where the thumb points to as it bends.

The picture on the instruction shows the top nail of a hinged thumb when testing.  When I do this test, I only see the side, to almost bottom of my thumb.  The Bill Taylor method(coke can/fitting tubes) has my thumb pointing well past my pinky. They reluctantly only put me at 1/4 right in my thumb.  I'm currently at 3/4 right, and feel I actually need more.

I feel that this fitting method is inferior to how it should be.  Yes it might work for 80 to 90% of the bowlers that have "normal" thumbs, but it will not be effective at determining the true pitch that is needed.

I feel that most fitters get the thumb pitch wrong, and accommodate the wrong pitch with a loose thumb hole at the top, or having to use excess bevel so a bowler does not hang up.

Right now I'm 4 7/8 span with 3/4 right and 3/4 reverse. I'm using a vise thumb oval that fits pretty snug, and I have zero bevel or shaping on the thumb.  I only smoothed out the edges so that it wouldn't cut my thumb at the top of the hole.

Just wondering what people think is the best way to find the correctly lateral thumb pitch.
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

 

itsallaboutme

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2022, 04:46:12 AM »
The IBPSIA way of teaching fitting is a system to fit most people into something comfortable so they can bowl without tearing up their hand.  The system works for about 95%.  Fitting the other 5% comes with experience and trial and error. 

When I was in pro shops and I fit someone into something that was drastically different to what they currently used I would explain to them what was different, why, and almost never let them try it in a new ball.  And I would tell them if they didn't like it I would change it back at no cost. 

The bottom line is most people don't need anything extreme.  If you do it's probably going to take some patience and experimenting to get there.  If you've found something that works, stick with it.   

J_w73

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2022, 08:44:21 PM »
The IBPSIA way of teaching fitting is a system to fit most people into something comfortable so they can bowl without tearing up their hand.  The system works for about 95%.  Fitting the other 5% comes with experience and trial and error. 

When I was in pro shops and I fit someone into something that was drastically different to what they currently used I would explain to them what was different, why, and almost never let them try it in a new ball.  And I would tell them if they didn't like it I would change it back at no cost. 

The bottom line is most people don't need anything extreme.  If you do it's probably going to take some patience and experimenting to get there.  If you've found something that works, stick with it.   

I hear you, but if a method just works by chance on "most" people, then is it really a good method?  I feel Bill Taylor's tube/thumb hinge method ( Mo Pinel fitting tubes ) is a better method, but most pro shops do not implement it correctly.  Most still go with where the tip of the thumb ends in relation to the other fingers, instead of going with an arrow off the top of the thumb to where the arrow points.
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

itsallaboutme

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2022, 08:55:38 PM »
Itís not by chance it works on most people. Itís a system developed by some of the most respected fitters in the game. The game and releases have changed significantly since Bill Taylorís method was developed.

J_w73

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2022, 09:20:23 PM »
Itís not by chance it works on most people. Itís a system developed by some of the most respected fitters in the game. The game and releases have changed significantly since Bill Taylorís method was developed.
You could arbitrarily pick 1/8 left, 0, or 1/8 right in the thumb and it will work for the majority of the people, and the misdiagnosed pitch can be fixed with beveling the thumb hole.  That doesn't mean it is a good test.

If people did Bill Taylor's method correctly, people would have better fitting balls.  I bet a lot of people need more right than they currently have due to the test being done incorrectly.
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

J_____W

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2023, 10:43:46 PM »
  Was taught never to give right-lateral thumb pitch for righty's or left-lateral in thumb for lefties.. has never failed yet, 20 years running Pro Shops. Pitches should be determined by looking at the players' hand (Arm fully extended, elbow out, hand open.. determined by total span & thumb angle-flex from Bill Taylor's chart). Finger pitches based on flexibility, the trend today is almost always going Away on the fingers, as opposed to yesteryear when many fittings were drilling fingers towards the thumb so you could get more lift.. those days are over. Love these fitting and drilling topics. Also giving some left-lateral in thumb for a right hander(s) (right for lefties) with very high tracks is a trick to help lower the players' track. Works. As a rule of thumb I generally always give between O and 1/8 lateral, no more than 1/8 except for extreme cases. Good Luck.
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Adrenaline

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2023, 02:57:56 PM »
Hey J_w73,

If my memory serves, you and I met up and bowled a few games together years ago, from BowlersChat.  Are you still in the Sacramento area?  I started bowling at Country Club a few years back and I was curious who you have drilling your stuff out there?  I still travel to my old driller because I haven't trusted anyone I've met in Sacramento and I've had for success and a great relationship with my PSO in a different country.  Just wondering who you go to and if you're happy.  (Assuming you're still in Sac or even the the right user lmao.)

I'm experimenting with 2 hands no thumb right now, and if I go back to 1 handed I'm going to really shake up all my pitches.  Or maybe try and drill my 1H stuff myself as well, with a drill upgrade.

J_w73

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2023, 03:09:42 PM »
Hey J_w73,

If my memory serves, you and I met up and bowled a few games together years ago, from BowlersChat.  Are you still in the Sacramento area?  I started bowling at Country Club a few years back and I was curious who you have drilling your stuff out there?  I still travel to my old driller because I haven't trusted anyone I've met in Sacramento and I've had for success and a great relationship with my PSO in a different country.  Just wondering who you go to and if you're happy.  (Assuming you're still in Sac or even the the right user lmao.)

I'm experimenting with 2 hands no thumb right now, and if I go back to 1 handed I'm going to really shake up all my pitches.  Or maybe try and drill my 1H stuff myself as well, with a drill upgrade.

sent you a PM
375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT

J_w73

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Re: IBPSIA thumb pitch fitting
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2023, 04:16:12 PM »
  Was taught never to give right-lateral thumb pitch for righty's or left-lateral in thumb for lefties.. has never failed yet, 20 years running Pro Shops. Pitches should be determined by looking at the players' hand (Arm fully extended, elbow out, hand open.. determined by total span & thumb angle-flex from Bill Taylor's chart). Finger pitches based on flexibility, the trend today is almost always going Away on the fingers, as opposed to yesteryear when many fittings were drilling fingers towards the thumb so you could get more lift.. those days are over. Love these fitting and drilling topics. Also giving some left-lateral in thumb for a right hander(s) (right for lefties) with very high tracks is a trick to help lower the players' track. Works. As a rule of thumb I generally always give between O and 1/8 lateral, no more than 1/8 except for extreme cases. Good Luck.

Interesting info, but completely the opposite of the experience with my own hand.  I had a very high track and very little tilt for most of my life with a bad thumb pitch that needed a ton of bevel at 10 / 11 o'clock to get out of the ball. Since I have gone farther right it considerably lowered my track and gave me higher tilt. 

Also, the Bill Taylor book suggests going right in the lateral thumb pitch for right handers based on the thumb hinge angle.  That is how I have come to 3/4 right in my thumb pitch.


375 RPM, 17-18 MPH, 45+ DEG AXIS ROTATION, 17 DEG TILT