BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: 300x10 on September 12, 2016, 07:22:32 AM
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Just tossing this out there to get a idea on how to get this addressed. Not saying it is happening,but what procedures should one take if there are illegal balls in your league.
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if there are illegal equipment being used (any reason, not just static weights) you should start with the League officers and Local Association. If they choose to not deal with it, then elevate to the state level. If state also refuses, then your last hope is the national level.
Hopefully the League and local association takes care of the issue; if not, you can only hope as you elevate that the higher tiers put enough pressure on the lower level for action to occur.
in your example, I wouldn't count on it being addressed by the association.
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If you are worried about balls with illegal static weights, then I would worry about something else. It is near impossible (outside of some extreme cases) to look at a ball and think it is out of spec. And if you did call someone out on it, you come across as petty. And lastly, there isn't any negligible benefit from having a ball with static weights outside the spec.
So in a nutshell, don't worry about it and just bowl.
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Ideally, there should never be a ball that is illegal due to static weight [unless it was drilled at home by someone who couldn't properly weigh it out.] In a perfect world, PSO's shouldn't be letting a ball out of their shop knowing it is illegal. Having said that, I know for a fact this isn't the case. I have had PSO's say to me "This ball is currently illegal, but throw a few games with it, see how it reacts, and come back some time and tell me what you think and we will put the proper balance hole in it." I immediately request for the ball to be made legal before I leave the shop.
As others have said, it isn't worth protesting a seemingly illegal ball. The ball doesn't throw itself, nor is one ball out of 6-10 or more balls being used at any given time on a pair the reason an entire team wins or loses.
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For 99% of bowlers, you can't make any difference with static weights anyway, although USBC sure acts like it does.
It's funny to see spare balls not passing at the scales, yet I seem to see it every year at the Open. USBC often seems to put their focus on being bureaucrats, rather than trying to actually promote bowling.
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I've had one local high profile guy give me a boatload of crap about me throwing illegal equipment. Actually confronted me when I was OPEN bowling!
Really? So what? I struggle to average better than 180 on a house shot.... but some people accuse me of cheating anyway because of illegal static weights on the ball. Taking my thumb out is about the only way I can hook the ball. I don't bowl tournaments, so please let me just have some fun, OK?
This goes back to the thumb/no thumb rule that was widely discussed here couple years ago. I have traditional thumbholes drilled, but mostly don't use them. Under the rule that thumbhole is my new weighthole and the grip center is the middle of the bridge. EVERYTHING I owned at the time was declared illegal to throw no thumb under that rule. But, the league I bowl in voted not to enforce it.
Nevertheless, some folk outside of the league choose to give me garbage about it.
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Ideally, there should never be a ball that is illegal due to static weight [unless it was drilled at home by someone who couldn't properly weigh it out.] In a perfect world, PSO's shouldn't be letting a ball out of their shop knowing it is illegal. Having said that, I know for a fact this isn't the case. I have had PSO's say to me "This ball is currently illegal, but throw a few games with it, see how it reacts, and come back some time and tell me what you think and we will put the proper balance hole in it." I immediately request for the ball to be made legal before I leave the shop.
As others have said, it isn't worth protesting a seemingly illegal ball. The ball doesn't throw itself, nor is one ball out of 6-10 or more balls being used at any given time on a pair the reason an entire team wins or loses.
It is unfortunate you feel your ball MUST be statically legal when you get it. Current drilling techniques take advantage of balance holes to fine tune the ball. To do this, balls are drilled with more positive side weight to facilitate the addition of the balance hole. It isn't an exact science where the ball comes out with 0.99 ounces of side weight. Sometimes it is 1.1 ounces or even higher.
I would argue your driller is doing you a favor by letting you know in advance it is illegal. You should have just thrown the ball some in open play/practice and let him know your thoughts. If you loved it he could drill a hole to minimize any effect. If you wanted a change, he could do that also.
But you are entitled to your opinion. I would just advise you to tell your PSO of your desires in advance next time.
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Ideally, there should never be a ball that is illegal due to static weight [unless it was drilled at home by someone who couldn't properly weigh it out.] In a perfect world, PSO's shouldn't be letting a ball out of their shop knowing it is illegal. Having said that, I know for a fact this isn't the case. I have had PSO's say to me "This ball is currently illegal, but throw a few games with it, see how it reacts, and come back some time and tell me what you think and we will put the proper balance hole in it." I immediately request for the ball to be made legal before I leave the shop.
As others have said, it isn't worth protesting a seemingly illegal ball. The ball doesn't throw itself, nor is one ball out of 6-10 or more balls being used at any given time on a pair the reason an entire team wins or loses.
It is unfortunate you feel your ball MUST be statically legal when you get it. Current drilling techniques take advantage of balance holes to fine tune the ball. To do this, balls are drilled with more positive side weight to facilitate the addition of the balance hole. It isn't an exact science where the ball comes out with 0.99 ounces of side weight. Sometimes it is 1.1 ounces or even higher.
I would argue your driller is doing you a favor by letting you know in advance it is illegal. You should have just thrown the ball some in open play/practice and let him know your thoughts. If you loved it he could drill a hole to minimize any effect. If you wanted a change, he could do that also.
But you are entitled to your opinion. I would just advise you to tell your PSO of your desires in advance next time.
I drill bowling balls and what you (spmcgivern) are saying is incorrect. After a drill is complete it MUST comply with USBC rules which means that it MUST be within the 1 oz of side to side and finger to thumb weight. If it does not do that the ball is illegal and the driller should not let the ball leave the shop.
Static weights in today's balls means very little. I always make sure a ball has no more than .75 oz of either weight to make sure that the ball passes at USBC tournament.
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Static weight rules are about as stupid as stupid can be, unless we're all going back to using pancake weight blocks.
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What ball models are common to have this so I can look at my league?
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I drill bowling balls and what you (spmcgivern) are saying is incorrect. After a drill is complete it MUST comply with USBC rules which means that it MUST be within the 1 oz of side to side and finger to thumb weight. If it does not do that the ball is illegal and the driller should not let the ball leave the shop.
Static weights in today's balls means very little. I always make sure a ball has no more than .75 oz of either weight to make sure that the ball passes at USBC tournament.
Cory, I understand the rule. And I agree a PSO shouldn't allow a bowler to use an illegal ball if they can prevent that from happening.
But can I ask what do you do if the bowler wants the option of adding a balance hole? Do you drill it up with the CG in the middle of the grip to make sure you do not exceed 1 oz? Or do you shift the CG in the direction you would add the balance hole? If you shift the CG, then you have the chance to exceed 1 oz.
So let's say you have shifted the CG and it comes out just barely over 1 oz. Do you add the balance hole before the bowler has had a chance to throw the ball to ensure the balance hole is where the customer wants it? Or do you give him a chance to throw the ball? Notifying the customer of the circumstances and allowing him/her to throw the ball (in practice, not in sanctioned competition) allows them to be responsible for whatever happens if they disregard your notification. But it also allows them to tell you what changes they want to the reaction.
If you drilled a P2 hole in my ball because the ball was "illegal" before I had a chance to test it out, I would go elsewhere from that point on. Especially since I make it known what I am looking for in my drilled ball. I understand the rules, but I also understand the large effect a properly placed balance hole has on the finished product.
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I drill bowling balls and what you (spmcgivern) are saying is incorrect. After a drill is complete it MUST comply with USBC rules which means that it MUST be within the 1 oz of side to side and finger to thumb weight. If it does not do that the ball is illegal and the driller should not let the ball leave the shop.
Static weights in today's balls means very little. I always make sure a ball has no more than .75 oz of either weight to make sure that the ball passes at USBC tournament.
Cory, I understand the rule. And I agree a PSO shouldn't allow a bowler to use an illegal ball if they can prevent that from happening.
But can I ask what do you do if the bowler wants the option of adding a balance hole? Do you drill it up with the CG in the middle of the grip to make sure you do not exceed 1 oz? Or do you shift the CG in the direction you would add the balance hole? If you shift the CG, then you have the chance to exceed 1 oz.
So let's say you have shifted the CG and it comes out just barely over 1 oz. Do you add the balance hole before the bowler has had a chance to throw the ball to ensure the balance hole is where the customer wants it? Or do you give him a chance to throw the ball? Notifying the customer of the circumstances and allowing him/her to throw the ball (in practice, not in sanctioned competition) allows them to be responsible for whatever happens if they disregard your notification. But it also allows them to tell you what changes they want to the reaction.
If you drilled a P2 hole in my ball because the ball was "illegal" before I had a chance to test it out, I would go elsewhere from that point on. Especially since I make it known what I am looking for in my drilled ball. I understand the rules, but I also understand the large effect a properly placed balance hole has on the finished product.
I will always add a balance hole if it does not weigh out properly. The ball will not leave because if he/she gets busted at a tournament they will surely tell everyone where the ball was drilled. If they want to throw it before the hole goes in we go right out to the lanes and do it then and there. NO EXCEPTIONS.
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Wow. I know where I wouldn't be getting a ball drilled.
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Back in the day, I had a Threat that was super snappy off the spot. Had 7/8 side, so I wanted to put a crater on the pap. I took it to 3/4 negative, so I removed over an ounce and a half. The ounce and a half didn't make a difference. The void I put in the core made a difference.
Now, I always weighed out balls before I drilled them. If I didn't want a hole, I would keep it under an ounce, so I could drill the ring deeper in case of "mistakes". If the desired reaction required an extra hole, I went big. I had a guy move up from a Cougar to a V2, and he wanted HOOK! So I rev leveraged it, put an inch hole at p3, and dude freaked out. "WHY DOES MY BALL HAVE 4 HOLES? NO ONE ELSES BALL HAS 4 HOLES!"
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If a ball is believed illegal on static weight you can notify a league officer to have the ball checked. If illegal it cannot be used in league or tournament play again till it is fixed.
If after this the bowler continues to use the illegal ball then they are subject to forfeit of scores.
It's listed in USBC rules.
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If a ball is believed illegal on static weight you can notify a league officer to have the ball checked. If illegal it cannot be used in league or tournament play again till it is fixed.
If after this the bowler continues to use the illegal ball then they are subject to forfeit of scores.
It's listed in USBC rules.
And you become known as the biggest PITA in the league. ;D
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If a ball is believed illegal on static weight you can notify a league officer to have the ball checked. If illegal it cannot be used in league or tournament play again till it is fixed.
If after this the bowler continues to use the illegal ball then they are subject to forfeit of scores.
It's listed in USBC rules.
And you become known as the biggest PITA in the league. ;D
Wouldn't that depend on the amount of bowling money is involved? A guy winning jackpots with a suspect ball would be called a lot sooner.
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If a ball is believed illegal on static weight you can notify a league officer to have the ball checked. If illegal it cannot be used in league or tournament play again till it is fixed.
If after this the bowler continues to use the illegal ball then they are subject to forfeit of scores.
It's listed in USBC rules.
And you become known as the biggest PITA in the league. ;D
Wouldn't that depend on the amount of bowling money is involved? A guy winning jackpots with a suspect ball would be called a lot sooner.
Good point, but ask yourself this...Do you remember the guy who won sweepers in your league the last two years? Now, do you remember the guy who was always quoting the rules?
I can make a good guess which one most people remember. ;D
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Ideally, there should never be a ball that is illegal due to static weight [unless it was drilled at home by someone who couldn't properly weigh it out.] In a perfect world, PSO's shouldn't be letting a ball out of their shop knowing it is illegal. Having said that, I know for a fact this isn't the case. I have had PSO's say to me "This ball is currently illegal, but throw a few games with it, see how it reacts, and come back some time and tell me what you think and we will put the proper balance hole in it." I immediately request for the ball to be made legal before I leave the shop.
As others have said, it isn't worth protesting a seemingly illegal ball. The ball doesn't throw itself, nor is one ball out of 6-10 or more balls being used at any given time on a pair the reason an entire team wins or loses.
It is unfortunate you feel your ball MUST be statically legal when you get it. Current drilling techniques take advantage of balance holes to fine tune the ball. To do this, balls are drilled with more positive side weight to facilitate the addition of the balance hole. It isn't an exact science where the ball comes out with 0.99 ounces of side weight. Sometimes it is 1.1 ounces or even higher.
I would argue your driller is doing you a favor by letting you know in advance it is illegal. You should have just thrown the ball some in open play/practice and let him know your thoughts. If you loved it he could drill a hole to minimize any effect. If you wanted a change, he could do that also.
But you are entitled to your opinion. I would just advise you to tell your PSO of your desires in advance next time.
I drill bowling balls and what you (spmcgivern) are saying is incorrect. After a drill is complete it MUST comply with USBC rules which means that it MUST be within the 1 oz of side to side and finger to thumb weight. If it does not do that the ball is illegal and the driller should not let the ball leave the shop.
Static weights in today's balls means very little. I always make sure a ball has no more than .75 oz of either weight to make sure that the ball passes at USBC tournament.
Surely you realize that there are opportunities to test the reaction of bowling balls in non-sanctioned bowling? Open bowling, for starters?
I agree with the others. If you didn't allow me to tune my ball reaction, you wouldn't be my ball driller.
As long as my ball driller tells me in advance that the ball is illegal and needs a hole, it's on me to follow the rules, not him.
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With my PSO, it's pretty simple. Everything is weighed before leaving the shop. If the ball is out of spec, it doesn't leave the shop until the ball is legal. There's been a few I've had where the weight hole was needed and the PSO will give some options on the hole needed to still give the reaction I'm looking for. This way, I can tune the reaction.
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With my PSO, it's pretty simple. Everything is weighed before leaving the shop. If the ball is out of spec, it doesn't leave the shop until the ball is legal. There's been a few I've had where the weight hole was needed and the PSO will give some options on the hole needed to still give the reaction I'm looking for. This way, I can tune the reaction.
I personally believe that this is how it should be.
the guy that drilled balls for my dad and I in the 90s drilled stuff illegally on purpose, because "it would work better for you". The last ball he drilled for my dad was used while our team won a tournament, with dad throwing his first 300. someone that knew our PSO's tendency for drilling ball illegal challenged our scores and got the 300 and our tournament scores thrown out.
The ball my dad was throwing had over 1.5 oz too much side weight and at least an once finger weight. The situation is burned in my mind.
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person in question drills his own gear and others and not once have i seen him put anything on the scale to check for weight.
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With my PSO, it's pretty simple. Everything is weighed before leaving the shop. If the ball is out of spec, it doesn't leave the shop until the ball is legal. There's been a few I've had where the weight hole was needed and the PSO will give some options on the hole needed to still give the reaction I'm looking for. This way, I can tune the reaction.
How do you tune the reaction if you don't know what the reaction is before adding the hole? Wouldn't you need to throw it first?
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I drill my own gear (using a KMT Jig) and then have my PSO weight it out. If a weight hole is ever needed, I place it where I want, then have it weighted again. Since I purchase my thumb inserts and plugging needs from the PSO, there is no resentment that I drill only for myself. He does at times, enjoy correcting my mishaps. My span measurements are now dead-on, and more thought goes into my lay-outs as a home driller. Fun hobby - no illegal weights and I don't tell league members what I do.